The Ultimate Violation
Beena Sarwar February 20, 2005
#71 Posted by sabag on November 9, 2006 3:54:06 pm
I agree what is happening with women is sad, but this is not only in pakistan, America has the highest rate of sexual harassment in the world, 4 times higher than Germany, 13 times higher than England, and 20 times higher than Japan. so it is not only pakistan, but the problem is that pakistan is mis represented so much in the media that it seems that such things happen only in Pakistan. I myself have been living in Germany and i know how the situation here is.
You talk about the outrage on publicizing Shaukat hayat case, i say at least there were out rages, there were and still are people to condemn such things, but here in Germany a girl gave birth to a child from her brother and was showed on TV and she said she is proud of it, and there were no outrages no condemnation here in Germany , then what happened to austrian girl Natascha Kampusch, there are many examples in west than what is said about Pakistan but the problem is that what happens in Pakistan is projected more on media than what happens in the west.
And i wonder that these victims of sexual harrasment who flew to canada or america or europe will be safe there, because mostly pakistani people want to go back to pakistan for their growing childern either boys or girls because if they stayed in america or europe they are just unsafe as far as their moral values are concerend.
Here one person commented that in Islam women are given 2nd class status i think he does not had any knowledge of Islam, in my opinion the solution to these problem is only the Islamic sharia.
If today each men and women in pakistan do complete islamic hijab, and after that a capital punishment must be given to the one who sexually harass a women then there is no doubt that this problem will be solved.
You talk about the outrage on publicizing Shaukat hayat case, i say at least there were out rages, there were and still are people to condemn such things, but here in Germany a girl gave birth to a child from her brother and was showed on TV and she said she is proud of it, and there were no outrages no condemnation here in Germany , then what happened to austrian girl Natascha Kampusch, there are many examples in west than what is said about Pakistan but the problem is that what happens in Pakistan is projected more on media than what happens in the west.
And i wonder that these victims of sexual harrasment who flew to canada or america or europe will be safe there, because mostly pakistani people want to go back to pakistan for their growing childern either boys or girls because if they stayed in america or europe they are just unsafe as far as their moral values are concerend.
Here one person commented that in Islam women are given 2nd class status i think he does not had any knowledge of Islam, in my opinion the solution to these problem is only the Islamic sharia.
If today each men and women in pakistan do complete islamic hijab, and after that a capital punishment must be given to the one who sexually harass a women then there is no doubt that this problem will be solved.
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#70 Posted by waterbearer on December 22, 2005 12:56:16 am
To # 63 (rahul capri)
Yes I definitely agree when you say pitying the victim and saying her life is shattered is equal to considering rape destroyed her honor. And I too feel that`s the ultimate stupidity. But I think that sometimes, victims become devastated even not considering their ``lost`` honor. I mean, when I was 14, I experienced the sexual harassment or so-called ``eve-teasing`` for the first time in my life. It felt so weird and I could not tell anybody about it, even my sister and her friends, least of all my parents. It wasn`t because I was trying to protect my izzat or whatever, it was because I was completely repelled. If I myself was so shaken by that little incident, how much would a rape victim feel? And this comes from someone whose friends and family consider to not at all be sensitive or emotional.
Yes I definitely agree when you say pitying the victim and saying her life is shattered is equal to considering rape destroyed her honor. And I too feel that`s the ultimate stupidity. But I think that sometimes, victims become devastated even not considering their ``lost`` honor. I mean, when I was 14, I experienced the sexual harassment or so-called ``eve-teasing`` for the first time in my life. It felt so weird and I could not tell anybody about it, even my sister and her friends, least of all my parents. It wasn`t because I was trying to protect my izzat or whatever, it was because I was completely repelled. If I myself was so shaken by that little incident, how much would a rape victim feel? And this comes from someone whose friends and family consider to not at all be sensitive or emotional.
#69 Posted by waterbearer on December 22, 2005 12:56:07 am
To # 63 (rahul capri)
Yes I definitely agree when you say pitying the victim and saying her life is shattered is equal to considering rape destroyed her honor. And I too feel that`s the ultimate stupidity. But I think that sometimes, victims become devastated even not considering their ``lost`` honor. I mean, when I was 14, I experienced the sexual harassment or so-called ``eve-teasing`` for the first time in my life. It felt so weird and I could not tell anybody about it, even my sister and her friends, least of all my parents. It wasn`t because I was trying to protect my izzat or whatever, it was because I was completely repelled. If I myself was so shaken by that little incident, how much would a rape victim feel? And this comes from someone whose friends and family consider to not at all be sensitive or emotional.
Yes I definitely agree when you say pitying the victim and saying her life is shattered is equal to considering rape destroyed her honor. And I too feel that`s the ultimate stupidity. But I think that sometimes, victims become devastated even not considering their ``lost`` honor. I mean, when I was 14, I experienced the sexual harassment or so-called ``eve-teasing`` for the first time in my life. It felt so weird and I could not tell anybody about it, even my sister and her friends, least of all my parents. It wasn`t because I was trying to protect my izzat or whatever, it was because I was completely repelled. If I myself was so shaken by that little incident, how much would a rape victim feel? And this comes from someone whose friends and family consider to not at all be sensitive or emotional.
#68 Posted by XeroxKhan on March 28, 2005 9:14:39 am
Pakistani women fare no better (or worse) than a bucket. Functional, often neglected and always misused.
Islam dictates the second class status of women in general and wives in particular.
If this is how the ``muslim`` women are treated, what could be the fate of a ``non-muslim`` woman in a country like Pakistan?
Similar to what Dr. Shazia did, ``ALL PAKISTANI WOMEN`` should flee the country.
Islam dictates the second class status of women in general and wives in particular.
If this is how the ``muslim`` women are treated, what could be the fate of a ``non-muslim`` woman in a country like Pakistan?
Similar to what Dr. Shazia did, ``ALL PAKISTANI WOMEN`` should flee the country.
#67 Posted by kardesh on March 2, 2005 6:38:34 pm
In Pakistan, the army does what it wants and no one can question it. Ask the Bengalis, the Baluchis, the Mohajirs. Why should Shazia expect any better?
#66 Posted by djkewl on March 1, 2005 7:16:14 am
ex president reagan to rape victims quote... (Relax and enjoy it)
#66 Posted by djkewl on March 1, 2005 7:16:16 am
ex president reagan to rape victims quote... (Relax and enjoy it)
#65 Posted by rahul_capri on February 25, 2005 8:06:19 pm
ana,
I already said that I am not disagreeing with u. Firstly, the concept of honour and women as the sole bastions of it is so much ingrained into our thinking that it just cant be reasoned away so simply. Secondly, if a woman is feeling devastated by rape, whatever the reasons may be, I am nobody to judge her and tell her how she is supposed to feel. This would be condescending in the same vain as referring to rape as gross violation, and life shattering experience etc. Though, In my humble opinion most of the trauma felt by a woman is because of the feeling that she is ``polluted``,and her honour has been compromised and that the society feels the same way. The woman is part of the same patriarchal society that has made such norms, yet another tool to exercise control over woman and make them weak in power relationships. This culminates in the double whammy of rape.Aside from the trauma that the rape victim may feel without any societal overtones, there is this back breaking and life shattering burden of the societal stigma of rape.
While those idiots who wish to kill her because she was raped deserve the same punishment as the rapists, on the other hand lets not be too judgmental about her state. If she wants help , she will seek it out from medical institutions, besides she always has her family to turn to. Here, I couldnt agree more with doublec that support structures should be in place.
But I only have complete disregard for that school of thought that presupposes that her life has been shattered beyond repair and she would never be the same again.
I already said that I am not disagreeing with u. Firstly, the concept of honour and women as the sole bastions of it is so much ingrained into our thinking that it just cant be reasoned away so simply. Secondly, if a woman is feeling devastated by rape, whatever the reasons may be, I am nobody to judge her and tell her how she is supposed to feel. This would be condescending in the same vain as referring to rape as gross violation, and life shattering experience etc. Though, In my humble opinion most of the trauma felt by a woman is because of the feeling that she is ``polluted``,and her honour has been compromised and that the society feels the same way. The woman is part of the same patriarchal society that has made such norms, yet another tool to exercise control over woman and make them weak in power relationships. This culminates in the double whammy of rape.Aside from the trauma that the rape victim may feel without any societal overtones, there is this back breaking and life shattering burden of the societal stigma of rape.
While those idiots who wish to kill her because she was raped deserve the same punishment as the rapists, on the other hand lets not be too judgmental about her state. If she wants help , she will seek it out from medical institutions, besides she always has her family to turn to. Here, I couldnt agree more with doublec that support structures should be in place.
But I only have complete disregard for that school of thought that presupposes that her life has been shattered beyond repair and she would never be the same again.
#64 Posted by ahmedmadani on February 25, 2005 9:47:25 am
Re: # 39
I am sorry for you being disappointed.
I do not know much about physics or about scientist. He was polygomist and had twin wifes and that is affront to womenfolks even though by tradition it is accepted. Also to write a story one needs drama ( example Jinnah did not make money but gandhi movie made as there is drama in life of Mr. Gandhi so movie became interesting). There is no much drama in scientists life. Now some women say it is good and desirable(polygomy) and its allowed by book. You can not say any thing it is question in religious field and parameter are fixed. You can heat hit head on stone only you will be dead.
The system may be good, or bad but system exist due to conditions may be even optimum sme times. In pakistan there are topics which are not permitted ( not by law) by ethos of people.
Frontier post( In Peshawar) and business weekly( Karachi) burnt to ashes by ``people``.
Frontier post made mistake of printing some jew man`s letter. Even recently Jang ( a paper which tows General head quarter line and people like Mazari and other lady hawks regularly published) was attacked in Karachi as they published interview or some jew israli labor leader. You sit in safety and in cosy atmosphere in India and advice me to hit head on rock hoping rock will break.
You can advice you commy govt of bengalis to follow highcourts decision ant stop loud speakers, you commi paper bengali tigers have not dared still. Here things are difficult than you think. You can not challenging the book. ``there is no god but allah and Muhammad is last messenger `` should tell you some thing. In islam there everything emcompasses by traditions its watertight.Little thing can you make blasphamous and unbelieveable retribution.
My suggestion ( can not advise you are much intelligent, successful ) is please do not try to shephard sheeps sitting on Camel. IT has not worked. With best wishes to all.... Ahmed madani
I am sorry for you being disappointed.
I do not know much about physics or about scientist. He was polygomist and had twin wifes and that is affront to womenfolks even though by tradition it is accepted. Also to write a story one needs drama ( example Jinnah did not make money but gandhi movie made as there is drama in life of Mr. Gandhi so movie became interesting). There is no much drama in scientists life. Now some women say it is good and desirable(polygomy) and its allowed by book. You can not say any thing it is question in religious field and parameter are fixed. You can heat hit head on stone only you will be dead.
The system may be good, or bad but system exist due to conditions may be even optimum sme times. In pakistan there are topics which are not permitted ( not by law) by ethos of people.
Frontier post( In Peshawar) and business weekly( Karachi) burnt to ashes by ``people``.
Frontier post made mistake of printing some jew man`s letter. Even recently Jang ( a paper which tows General head quarter line and people like Mazari and other lady hawks regularly published) was attacked in Karachi as they published interview or some jew israli labor leader. You sit in safety and in cosy atmosphere in India and advice me to hit head on rock hoping rock will break.
You can advice you commy govt of bengalis to follow highcourts decision ant stop loud speakers, you commi paper bengali tigers have not dared still. Here things are difficult than you think. You can not challenging the book. ``there is no god but allah and Muhammad is last messenger `` should tell you some thing. In islam there everything emcompasses by traditions its watertight.Little thing can you make blasphamous and unbelieveable retribution.
My suggestion ( can not advise you are much intelligent, successful ) is please do not try to shephard sheeps sitting on Camel. IT has not worked. With best wishes to all.... Ahmed madani
#63 Posted by ana on February 25, 2005 9:36:28 am
rahul #61.
i don`t know quite how to explain the reason, but i will make an attempt.
i have known men who have broken someone`s bones in anger. i know a man who may have caused even more physical and psychological harm to his daughter in beating her right afterwards an accident, than the broken bones caused in that accident. i know of what happened to my cousin and the bruising and scars when someone on a motorbike pulled at her dupatta and dragged her on the ground.
when someone breaks a person`s bones, it is a violation. there is no doubt about that. bones don`t heal easily. and bones obviously are integral parts of your body, but have you ever heard your finger or your leg referred to as your private part? is a man breaking a woman`s jaw, referred to destroying her private parts? perhaps they should.
for me, as for many whom i know, penetration goes beyond the violation of breaking bones. our private parts, aside from being called our izzat and whatnot when violated, is a deeper violation, a violation of our inner depths, our heart and soul, our mind, our psyche, our sense of security, remnants of trust we have left. and yes there are those of us who are stronger, those who say that he penetrated me, but he did not touch my heart or my soul. but there are those for whom it takes longer to recover. . . well-known women like connie francis and theresa saldana who have been afraid to leave their houses, and we know so little about about how certain women deal with rape, like those who don`t have the means, and don`t feel they have a voice. it`s really all well and good for those of us who sit here with laptops and computers to say that everyone should raise their voices, but then when have some of us made it possible for women to raise their voices? there are so many cases which are not high-profile and are ignored, some for the reasons you give, some for others.
i don`t know if i`ve answered your question, and i don`t expect you to agree with what i have to say. in my personal experience, i`ve been hit again and again, to where it feels like something has broken, and i`ve been in a situation where in my helplessness and fear, i`ve curled up in a ball and wanted to die. . . and i can tell you from those experiences that it is definitely not the same. and no precise explanation or reason can be given for that. :)
i don`t know quite how to explain the reason, but i will make an attempt.
i have known men who have broken someone`s bones in anger. i know a man who may have caused even more physical and psychological harm to his daughter in beating her right afterwards an accident, than the broken bones caused in that accident. i know of what happened to my cousin and the bruising and scars when someone on a motorbike pulled at her dupatta and dragged her on the ground.
when someone breaks a person`s bones, it is a violation. there is no doubt about that. bones don`t heal easily. and bones obviously are integral parts of your body, but have you ever heard your finger or your leg referred to as your private part? is a man breaking a woman`s jaw, referred to destroying her private parts? perhaps they should.
for me, as for many whom i know, penetration goes beyond the violation of breaking bones. our private parts, aside from being called our izzat and whatnot when violated, is a deeper violation, a violation of our inner depths, our heart and soul, our mind, our psyche, our sense of security, remnants of trust we have left. and yes there are those of us who are stronger, those who say that he penetrated me, but he did not touch my heart or my soul. but there are those for whom it takes longer to recover. . . well-known women like connie francis and theresa saldana who have been afraid to leave their houses, and we know so little about about how certain women deal with rape, like those who don`t have the means, and don`t feel they have a voice. it`s really all well and good for those of us who sit here with laptops and computers to say that everyone should raise their voices, but then when have some of us made it possible for women to raise their voices? there are so many cases which are not high-profile and are ignored, some for the reasons you give, some for others.
i don`t know if i`ve answered your question, and i don`t expect you to agree with what i have to say. in my personal experience, i`ve been hit again and again, to where it feels like something has broken, and i`ve been in a situation where in my helplessness and fear, i`ve curled up in a ball and wanted to die. . . and i can tell you from those experiences that it is definitely not the same. and no precise explanation or reason can be given for that. :)
#62 Posted by rahul_capri on February 25, 2005 5:39:19 am
p.s. to #61 ana, I am actually not disagreeing with you, just want to ask the reason.
#61 Posted by rahul_capri on February 25, 2005 5:27:01 am
ana, I did not mean breaking a bone by accident.Let it be breaking a bone by somebody else .
you can`t really compare penetration by force to breaking a bone in your body, can you?
Why not?
you can`t really compare penetration by force to breaking a bone in your body, can you?
Why not?
#60 Posted by ana on February 24, 2005 9:36:59 pm
teshah sahib,
there is more than one real crime here. rape is no less a crime than the bastards who are covering up the crime. . . regardless of whether it is to be investigated or not. and if there is a cover-up, the chances are less likely that it will be investigated. one more shame to add to the other shames. and they do pile up.
rahul:
what you are saying in part reminds me a bit of this ``masque`` this play written by john milton (of ``paradise lost`` fame) called ``comus``, where he has the woman being violated as being the stronger of everyone because even though she is violated, she keeps her `chastity` intact. of course in real life, it`s not easy to feel that way, especially with how much of society views rape as a loss of honor. but why isn`t rape so devastating? something is lost. someone is violated. you cannot exactly compare this to breaking a bone, especially if a bone is something that has broken in an accident. rape is no accident. it is a choice by someone to violate parts of someone that the one violated has protected.
speaking as someone who has broken a bone or two in her body, i`m not saying that`s devastating. . . and highly inconvenient. but bones heal as do certain outlooks. you can`t really compare penetration by force to breaking a bone in your body, can you?
there is more than one real crime here. rape is no less a crime than the bastards who are covering up the crime. . . regardless of whether it is to be investigated or not. and if there is a cover-up, the chances are less likely that it will be investigated. one more shame to add to the other shames. and they do pile up.
rahul:
what you are saying in part reminds me a bit of this ``masque`` this play written by john milton (of ``paradise lost`` fame) called ``comus``, where he has the woman being violated as being the stronger of everyone because even though she is violated, she keeps her `chastity` intact. of course in real life, it`s not easy to feel that way, especially with how much of society views rape as a loss of honor. but why isn`t rape so devastating? something is lost. someone is violated. you cannot exactly compare this to breaking a bone, especially if a bone is something that has broken in an accident. rape is no accident. it is a choice by someone to violate parts of someone that the one violated has protected.
speaking as someone who has broken a bone or two in her body, i`m not saying that`s devastating. . . and highly inconvenient. but bones heal as do certain outlooks. you can`t really compare penetration by force to breaking a bone in your body, can you?
#59 Posted by rahul_capri on February 24, 2005 5:48:08 pm
doublec #56
Are you saying that people don’t report sexual abuse because they get special treatment?
Yeah,exactly. Because rape is associated with ``izzat lutna ``,izzat par daag lagna`` , ``zindagi barbaad hona``, ``kisi ko munh dikhane ke kaabil na rahna``..etc. etc. I dont actually disagree with you when you say in #34 that Things will never be the same after such gross violation,except the semantics of ``gross violation``, but lets ask ourselves a question,why? Why is rape such a devastating experience for a woman? Why is it more devastating than breaking a bone? And I am not talikng about honour killing here.
There are stories in Indian history when Rajput queens opted for ``jauhar`` (suicide) when they were cornered by attackers because their ``honour`` was at stake. How does rape gets equated with foregoing of honour? I think it makes sense not to report a rape case in such a society.At least the ``izzat`` is secure, whether the rapist gets punished or not.
On another note, this discussion probably does not belong here, for one, with the current mindsets of our society, rape is really the most heinous crime and gross violation etc. and secondly, even without the idiotic concepts of izzat, the culprit should be punished, and thats what this discussion is about.
Are you saying that people don’t report sexual abuse because they get special treatment?
Yeah,exactly. Because rape is associated with ``izzat lutna ``,izzat par daag lagna`` , ``zindagi barbaad hona``, ``kisi ko munh dikhane ke kaabil na rahna``..etc. etc. I dont actually disagree with you when you say in #34 that Things will never be the same after such gross violation,except the semantics of ``gross violation``, but lets ask ourselves a question,why? Why is rape such a devastating experience for a woman? Why is it more devastating than breaking a bone? And I am not talikng about honour killing here.
There are stories in Indian history when Rajput queens opted for ``jauhar`` (suicide) when they were cornered by attackers because their ``honour`` was at stake. How does rape gets equated with foregoing of honour? I think it makes sense not to report a rape case in such a society.At least the ``izzat`` is secure, whether the rapist gets punished or not.
On another note, this discussion probably does not belong here, for one, with the current mindsets of our society, rape is really the most heinous crime and gross violation etc. and secondly, even without the idiotic concepts of izzat, the culprit should be punished, and thats what this discussion is about.
#58 Posted by teshah on February 24, 2005 4:04:56 pm
What the chowkies in general do not realise the real crime in this case, which is boiling the minds of the people, is not the rape itself which is yet to be investigated, but the cover up of an accused Hammad alleged to be the prime culprit, because he happened to be the `HOLY COW`. Now the COAS who is also Ex-officiao President has come out openly to defend him claiming that,``He knows Hammad is not guilty``. It is the ultimate folly, which is likely to add fuel to the fire.
#57 Posted by ana on February 24, 2005 11:02:21 am
doublec #56
yaar, i have read that post quite a few times, and if you read my very first response to it, you will see that i did note that i know you meant well. it just bothers me when even well-meaning folk refer to people, and women in particular as objects, even if it is for lack of words. i`m not talking about your attitude, but attitudes of more than a few who reflect this idea that women are objects are the attitudes which have harmed more than helped women, especially in our part of the world.
*********
on another note (or perhaps the same one): while i appreciate much of what beena has said here, we should be less concerned with improving our image abroad, and be more concerned with being able to live with ourselves and each other. in the face of the numerous injustices, if we cannot find a way to not just address, but work on eliminating these, including the stranglehold of the powers-that-be, ``progress`` will be more or less a joke. certain forces abroad really don`t give a damn about our image as long as they can get what they want from us. . . sad but true. it is we who have to live with our words, our actions, and the consequences of such. and the sad part is those who commit vile acts for their own gratification and glory and those who defend them are the least bit concerned about being able to live with themselves or those around them.
yaar, i have read that post quite a few times, and if you read my very first response to it, you will see that i did note that i know you meant well. it just bothers me when even well-meaning folk refer to people, and women in particular as objects, even if it is for lack of words. i`m not talking about your attitude, but attitudes of more than a few who reflect this idea that women are objects are the attitudes which have harmed more than helped women, especially in our part of the world.
*********
on another note (or perhaps the same one): while i appreciate much of what beena has said here, we should be less concerned with improving our image abroad, and be more concerned with being able to live with ourselves and each other. in the face of the numerous injustices, if we cannot find a way to not just address, but work on eliminating these, including the stranglehold of the powers-that-be, ``progress`` will be more or less a joke. certain forces abroad really don`t give a damn about our image as long as they can get what they want from us. . . sad but true. it is we who have to live with our words, our actions, and the consequences of such. and the sad part is those who commit vile acts for their own gratification and glory and those who defend them are the least bit concerned about being able to live with themselves or those around them.
#56 Posted by DoubleC on February 24, 2005 10:02:29 am
Rahul,
Are you saying that people don’t report sexual abuse because they get special treatment? If yes, then dude you don’t make sense.
Ana,
Ana…… Ana….. Ana……. Please go back and read my first post (#34)….. I wrote “ (I use the term object for lack of words)”. This does explain that I did not demean the doctor. I never intended to do it.
By me saying that she should be cared for as a delicate object…. Does not mean that I am feeling sorry for her. My post 34 was not what I felt for this person but more what I wish her husband and her close families do for her. Her husband seems like a nice person and I wish he stays besides her through the ordeal that she will have to go through.
Again I am not talking about feeling sorry for her but rather of the “support system” that has to be developed around her or as a matter of fact with every rape victim….. that can help them to come back to enjoy their lives.
Your comment on justice is correct….. it does help in putting a closure. However since this happened in Pakistan, I fear that justice will not be served and this can cause more pain for the doctor.
Are you saying that people don’t report sexual abuse because they get special treatment? If yes, then dude you don’t make sense.
Ana,
Ana…… Ana….. Ana……. Please go back and read my first post (#34)….. I wrote “ (I use the term object for lack of words)”. This does explain that I did not demean the doctor. I never intended to do it.
By me saying that she should be cared for as a delicate object…. Does not mean that I am feeling sorry for her. My post 34 was not what I felt for this person but more what I wish her husband and her close families do for her. Her husband seems like a nice person and I wish he stays besides her through the ordeal that she will have to go through.
Again I am not talking about feeling sorry for her but rather of the “support system” that has to be developed around her or as a matter of fact with every rape victim….. that can help them to come back to enjoy their lives.
Your comment on justice is correct….. it does help in putting a closure. However since this happened in Pakistan, I fear that justice will not be served and this can cause more pain for the doctor.
#55 Posted by ana on February 23, 2005 9:51:50 pm
Re: # 53
doublec:
i don`t want to keep discussing the condition of dr. shazia or put words in her mouth, or attribute feelings to her that are not hers. but it does seem that you and i are talking past each other. i would be the last person in the world to say that what she went through was NOT a delicate situation. i wouldn`t even say that. rape IS painful, the aftereffects, the shame, the degradation, the wondering if you did something to cause it, the disbelief of some as to your ``innocence``. that was not the point i was trying to make.
you referred to the doctor being treated as a delicate object. there is no doubt whatsoever that she needs caring and supportive people around her, and thankfully she does, and as i said we can only hope and pray that with their love and support she will go on with the rest of her life. she is NOT an object, she is a human being, who does need care, and who will need time to feel whole again. being sensitive to what she`s been through is one thing, but ``delicate objects`` are often set somewhere where they become unreachable. that, in my humble opinion, is a mistake. and i don`t agree necessarily with how rahul c. is putting it, but yes, to acknowledge and act on the fact that a loved one or someone we know has been raped is one thing. to continue feeling sorry for her situation in life, and to freeze her in the moment of being raped is not the best thing to do either. that sometimes leads to exploitation of a situation.
that`s where justice becomes so important. that`s where educating someone becomes so important, that`s where abolishing laws that favor the powerful and the man become important. you said you don`t care what happens to ``the dog``. perhaps you should. you should care about dogs who prescribe karo kari over upholding the honour of the women in their families. about the dogs who commit such vile acts. because for some, restorative justice has a lot to do with closure. for some it has everything to do with it.
you misunderstand me altogether when you say that i do not consider it to be a ``delicate`` situation. my objection to what you said was more in the tone that you used. and if we`re still in disagreement about that, then perhaps this is not the best arena to continue this discussion. she will not be the same person no. but with love, and faith, and yes, fear, will she go on? let us hope so.
doublec:
i don`t want to keep discussing the condition of dr. shazia or put words in her mouth, or attribute feelings to her that are not hers. but it does seem that you and i are talking past each other. i would be the last person in the world to say that what she went through was NOT a delicate situation. i wouldn`t even say that. rape IS painful, the aftereffects, the shame, the degradation, the wondering if you did something to cause it, the disbelief of some as to your ``innocence``. that was not the point i was trying to make.
you referred to the doctor being treated as a delicate object. there is no doubt whatsoever that she needs caring and supportive people around her, and thankfully she does, and as i said we can only hope and pray that with their love and support she will go on with the rest of her life. she is NOT an object, she is a human being, who does need care, and who will need time to feel whole again. being sensitive to what she`s been through is one thing, but ``delicate objects`` are often set somewhere where they become unreachable. that, in my humble opinion, is a mistake. and i don`t agree necessarily with how rahul c. is putting it, but yes, to acknowledge and act on the fact that a loved one or someone we know has been raped is one thing. to continue feeling sorry for her situation in life, and to freeze her in the moment of being raped is not the best thing to do either. that sometimes leads to exploitation of a situation.
that`s where justice becomes so important. that`s where educating someone becomes so important, that`s where abolishing laws that favor the powerful and the man become important. you said you don`t care what happens to ``the dog``. perhaps you should. you should care about dogs who prescribe karo kari over upholding the honour of the women in their families. about the dogs who commit such vile acts. because for some, restorative justice has a lot to do with closure. for some it has everything to do with it.
you misunderstand me altogether when you say that i do not consider it to be a ``delicate`` situation. my objection to what you said was more in the tone that you used. and if we`re still in disagreement about that, then perhaps this is not the best arena to continue this discussion. she will not be the same person no. but with love, and faith, and yes, fear, will she go on? let us hope so.
#54 Posted by rahul_capri on February 23, 2005 4:36:41 pm
How can someone who`s life has been altered go back living the same way. It takes a long time to heal and they need caring people around them.
doublec, We all have our own neuroses and scars, but that does not mean we need special treatment.This is the reason why so many of sexual abuse cases go unreported.
doublec, We all have our own neuroses and scars, but that does not mean we need special treatment.This is the reason why so many of sexual abuse cases go unreported.
#53 Posted by DoubleC on February 23, 2005 12:08:29 pm
So Ana,
How can someone who`s life has been altered go back living the same way. It takes a long time to heal and they need caring people around them.
I am not feeling pity for this person... I`m just saying what i wish should happen. How can you say that she is not in a delicate situation?...... think of her mental situation and tell me if at the moment it is delicate or not.
Don`t get me wrong...... i wish her the best but when this story dies out and the two of us are discussing a different topic, the doc will still be living on, with the memory of what happened to her. There will be days when things will be tough for her and her family, when they would not know what to do...... hopefully the family does not give up on her and lets her deal with the situation her self........ she needs constant support.... maybe for a few months maybe for a few years......
How can someone who`s life has been altered go back living the same way. It takes a long time to heal and they need caring people around them.
I am not feeling pity for this person... I`m just saying what i wish should happen. How can you say that she is not in a delicate situation?...... think of her mental situation and tell me if at the moment it is delicate or not.
Don`t get me wrong...... i wish her the best but when this story dies out and the two of us are discussing a different topic, the doc will still be living on, with the memory of what happened to her. There will be days when things will be tough for her and her family, when they would not know what to do...... hopefully the family does not give up on her and lets her deal with the situation her self........ she needs constant support.... maybe for a few months maybe for a few years......
#52 Posted by ana on February 23, 2005 11:51:30 am
Re: # 51
doublec,
the one word answer to your question: yes. and please look at what you`ve written again and tell me what it is that i don`t understand either way. my own personal experience, though perhaps not as devastating has not left me psychologically unscathed, but of course you couldn`t have known that in being so presumptious as to what i do and don`t understand.
take care.
doublec,
the one word answer to your question: yes. and please look at what you`ve written again and tell me what it is that i don`t understand either way. my own personal experience, though perhaps not as devastating has not left me psychologically unscathed, but of course you couldn`t have known that in being so presumptious as to what i do and don`t understand.
take care.
#51 Posted by DoubleC on February 23, 2005 10:24:59 am
38 Rahul/40 Ana,
I just have one question for the two of you: Do you personally know a rape victim? If yes then i find it hard for the two of you to understand my post. If you don`t know one then you don`t understand what i am saying.
I just have one question for the two of you: Do you personally know a rape victim? If yes then i find it hard for the two of you to understand my post. If you don`t know one then you don`t understand what i am saying.
#50 Posted by yogiraj on February 23, 2005 9:36:43 am
Beena,
Nice article. It does prove something.
Marm, when idiotics like me are in power, this will always happen. Not only in Pakistan, but also in India. May be also in Timbuck..TOO. and ...then some.
When a is problem identified, accepted, one should find resolution. And work on it. Neither I or urs will do that..
In India we have laws. Well.. We don`t abide by them...In pakistan.. there are not many..
Well you could be Saminasha.. who does want to to have evolution and change...
OR be a believer in Karma.. e.g.
O saare jagake rakhawle... Neerbal Ko bal dene wale...
Balawano ko ... Daata..... Dataa... Day Day Gyan
Well you could replace Allah with Ishwar. Yogiraj with Usrtru.. Nothing will change. Nothing. Unless you want to and change it. Take control. Tell me and urstru... B. F. U.
Yours True...
Yogiraj
Nice article. It does prove something.
Marm, when idiotics like me are in power, this will always happen. Not only in Pakistan, but also in India. May be also in Timbuck..TOO. and ...then some.
When a is problem identified, accepted, one should find resolution. And work on it. Neither I or urs will do that..
In India we have laws. Well.. We don`t abide by them...In pakistan.. there are not many..
Well you could be Saminasha.. who does want to to have evolution and change...
OR be a believer in Karma.. e.g.
O saare jagake rakhawle... Neerbal Ko bal dene wale...
Balawano ko ... Daata..... Dataa... Day Day Gyan
Well you could replace Allah with Ishwar. Yogiraj with Usrtru.. Nothing will change. Nothing. Unless you want to and change it. Take control. Tell me and urstru... B. F. U.
Yours True...
Yogiraj
#49 Posted by rsridhar on February 23, 2005 6:16:55 am
re:#46 by Charlie
I feel miserable when i hear such news. More so when such things are justified in the name of honor and the culprits go scotfree.
Pakistani society has yet to evolve a system to fight such injusticies. Pak is ruled by a dictator who makes a mockery of judicial system (Did he consult the judiciary before he usurped power?). Mullahs go unchallenged for fear of backlash. So, we have these tribal customs that have gone unchallenged to this day.
Such things happen in India too but media can make lives of wrong-doers miserable and judicial system can apply correctives. But the system is far from corrupt. Corrupt politicians still rule India (eg Bihar, TN). I am watching with interest the Kanchi Mutt case that is unfolding in Tamil Nadu. In all probability, the Kanchi Seer is being framed. Media is unable to do much. The CM of that state things she is born to rule and is being autocratic. But she now faces corrupton charges for which she has to go to Karnataka to face a trial. She tried to wriggle out of this by appealing to Supreme Court saying she will not get justice in Karnatak but that was turned down.
It is just that there has to be mechanisms to fight out injustices and these evolve as time goes by and if people are vested with powers to evolve such mechanisms. In a feudalistic society like Pakistan`s, such mechanisms evolve very slowly. It is left to some good men to fight it out.
Meanwhile, i heard that a 2 year old girl was raped in tribal area of Pak and was ordered by Karo Kari to be married to somebody when she grows up. What a shame?
Mullahs also have double standards to morality. Meera, the Pak actress, has caused a stir when she acted in a Bollywood movie. What is bothering the mullahs is NOT what she is doing but why she is doing in an enemycountry in front of the Infidels.
Sridhar
I feel miserable when i hear such news. More so when such things are justified in the name of honor and the culprits go scotfree.
Pakistani society has yet to evolve a system to fight such injusticies. Pak is ruled by a dictator who makes a mockery of judicial system (Did he consult the judiciary before he usurped power?). Mullahs go unchallenged for fear of backlash. So, we have these tribal customs that have gone unchallenged to this day.
Such things happen in India too but media can make lives of wrong-doers miserable and judicial system can apply correctives. But the system is far from corrupt. Corrupt politicians still rule India (eg Bihar, TN). I am watching with interest the Kanchi Mutt case that is unfolding in Tamil Nadu. In all probability, the Kanchi Seer is being framed. Media is unable to do much. The CM of that state things she is born to rule and is being autocratic. But she now faces corrupton charges for which she has to go to Karnataka to face a trial. She tried to wriggle out of this by appealing to Supreme Court saying she will not get justice in Karnatak but that was turned down.
It is just that there has to be mechanisms to fight out injustices and these evolve as time goes by and if people are vested with powers to evolve such mechanisms. In a feudalistic society like Pakistan`s, such mechanisms evolve very slowly. It is left to some good men to fight it out.
Meanwhile, i heard that a 2 year old girl was raped in tribal area of Pak and was ordered by Karo Kari to be married to somebody when she grows up. What a shame?
Mullahs also have double standards to morality. Meera, the Pak actress, has caused a stir when she acted in a Bollywood movie. What is bothering the mullahs is NOT what she is doing but why she is doing in an enemycountry in front of the Infidels.
Sridhar
#48 Posted by ZahraJ on February 22, 2005 9:03:52 pm
Charlie:
Thank you for sharing a realistic account. And that is the kind of ``bad`` that takes over and kicks out the ``good``. This is a very dismal and disconcerting picture, if it stays on the same course.
Why should the rape victim leave that environment? If anyone has to leave for anywhere then that should be the rapist. He should be brought to the streets and painted black, top down and bottom up. He should be made to pass through the streets of that city in that black paint so that people remember for the rest of their lives to stay away from such a despicable act. And wherever he dwells in the Islamic Republic of Pakistan, the natives should know that a rapist is in their vicinity. They should not let their mothers, daughters and sisters interact with that family. His wife should be forced to file a divorce suit and get rid of that evil ``revenge/entertainment`` seeking male. I have true sympathies with women who end up staying with such dirty and filthy men - this is provided he is married. If not then he should be blacklisted so that no one cares to dump their daughter on such a low level human being.
Last but not least, the jumaa` khutbaa conducted by the clergy should broadcast the local rapists and their names loud and clear to alert the fellow muslims of the existing evil in their society. This is the social jehad the clergy needs to conduct to protect and save the honor of its masses` well being. I understand that the clergy itself is not to be trusted 100% but still the ones with some conscience left should be tapped into. I am not sure how you can determine that. All these steps will take a lot of moral courage. Do we have any left in our society back home? I think we do have the awareness and some steps are taken after getting jootian from right and left (international agencies, to be precise) but no law has ever been passed to protect and defend the rights of a victim in rape cases. You cannot have only Asma Jehangir and Hina Jilani rising against the Legal System of Pakistan and demanding justice for the femal rape victims.
Thank you for sharing a realistic account. And that is the kind of ``bad`` that takes over and kicks out the ``good``. This is a very dismal and disconcerting picture, if it stays on the same course.
Why should the rape victim leave that environment? If anyone has to leave for anywhere then that should be the rapist. He should be brought to the streets and painted black, top down and bottom up. He should be made to pass through the streets of that city in that black paint so that people remember for the rest of their lives to stay away from such a despicable act. And wherever he dwells in the Islamic Republic of Pakistan, the natives should know that a rapist is in their vicinity. They should not let their mothers, daughters and sisters interact with that family. His wife should be forced to file a divorce suit and get rid of that evil ``revenge/entertainment`` seeking male. I have true sympathies with women who end up staying with such dirty and filthy men - this is provided he is married. If not then he should be blacklisted so that no one cares to dump their daughter on such a low level human being.
Last but not least, the jumaa` khutbaa conducted by the clergy should broadcast the local rapists and their names loud and clear to alert the fellow muslims of the existing evil in their society. This is the social jehad the clergy needs to conduct to protect and save the honor of its masses` well being. I understand that the clergy itself is not to be trusted 100% but still the ones with some conscience left should be tapped into. I am not sure how you can determine that. All these steps will take a lot of moral courage. Do we have any left in our society back home? I think we do have the awareness and some steps are taken after getting jootian from right and left (international agencies, to be precise) but no law has ever been passed to protect and defend the rights of a victim in rape cases. You cannot have only Asma Jehangir and Hina Jilani rising against the Legal System of Pakistan and demanding justice for the femal rape victims.
#47 Posted by teshah on February 22, 2005 5:36:48 pm
Re: # 45
``While Mullahs are good at protecting their sisters being raped in Kashmir,``.
How can you say that? The fact is that they publicise the rape of their sisters in Kashmir, call it a sacrifice and demand price for it. They even ran Quiz programs on the PTV, with one of the questions,``How many women have been raped in occupied Kashmir``. The answer, if I correctly remember, used to be `20,000`. When an army can rape 20,000 in Kashmir, and thousands perhaps in Bangladesh, why should the Mullah bother about one Shazia? In fact it is doubtful whether in Mullah`s shariah the rape is a crime at all.
``While Mullahs are good at protecting their sisters being raped in Kashmir,``.
How can you say that? The fact is that they publicise the rape of their sisters in Kashmir, call it a sacrifice and demand price for it. They even ran Quiz programs on the PTV, with one of the questions,``How many women have been raped in occupied Kashmir``. The answer, if I correctly remember, used to be `20,000`. When an army can rape 20,000 in Kashmir, and thousands perhaps in Bangladesh, why should the Mullah bother about one Shazia? In fact it is doubtful whether in Mullah`s shariah the rape is a crime at all.
#46 Posted by Charlie on February 22, 2005 4:51:05 pm
Being raped itself is very disturbing experience. And When I think of the reaction of our uneducated people, I start feeling even more uneasy.
My ancestoral town is located in central Punjab: much away from karo kari related interior Sindh. I remember a poor girl who was raped. When the news of her rape was spread, people started talking weird things about her. Connecting the rape with character of the lady, talking of dirtyness with rape, purity of a woman and the negatives which are done due to rape. Listning to mindset of the people was unbearable for me when I visited village for justa coupe of days.
Then, after few days, I came to know that girl was murdered by her brother.
Her brother was forgiven by the family of the girl: `` socalled islamically`` right, lawfully correct. Girl`s body was thrown in a canal.
Boy was praised for his bravery. Family retained its loss respect in the society.
The brother got a job at the stroing political personality of the town as the politician was impressed by his bravery.
That was just an example. I also know other examples where something happened, in the words of parents , girl fell ill strangely and died. family respect however is saved all the times.
Keeping those stories in mind, it is realy disturbing for me to realize that Dr Shazia case was so much politicized (and publicized).
Our people are not ready to listen to such things. They have very naive and immature concepts of purity, virginity and respect. How can the lady doctor survive in such a society with so much discussion done about it.
She should quit the society as soon as possible. Being raped itself creates psychological problems and facing people`s eyes makes it worse.
My ancestoral town is located in central Punjab: much away from karo kari related interior Sindh. I remember a poor girl who was raped. When the news of her rape was spread, people started talking weird things about her. Connecting the rape with character of the lady, talking of dirtyness with rape, purity of a woman and the negatives which are done due to rape. Listning to mindset of the people was unbearable for me when I visited village for justa coupe of days.
Then, after few days, I came to know that girl was murdered by her brother.
Her brother was forgiven by the family of the girl: `` socalled islamically`` right, lawfully correct. Girl`s body was thrown in a canal.
Boy was praised for his bravery. Family retained its loss respect in the society.
The brother got a job at the stroing political personality of the town as the politician was impressed by his bravery.
That was just an example. I also know other examples where something happened, in the words of parents , girl fell ill strangely and died. family respect however is saved all the times.
Keeping those stories in mind, it is realy disturbing for me to realize that Dr Shazia case was so much politicized (and publicized).
Our people are not ready to listen to such things. They have very naive and immature concepts of purity, virginity and respect. How can the lady doctor survive in such a society with so much discussion done about it.
She should quit the society as soon as possible. Being raped itself creates psychological problems and facing people`s eyes makes it worse.
#45 Posted by Charlie on February 22, 2005 4:05:25 pm
Captain Hammad is a nephew of the wife of a key Corps Commander posted north of Rawalpindi who is also related to General Musharraf’s military staff, a Major General.
What is the value of ``Bloody civilians`` in front of a ``high profile army officer``.
All documents are going to be fake? Poor Doctor is going to possess bad character.
Dr Shazia says she can`t sleep. then why General should sleep in presidentail palace. The palace he captured without reasons. this way, he took the responsibility of providing justice to all people of the country. Musharraf is a culprit. Every night, Dr Shazia is sleepless and he sleeps, he becomes worse culprit.
Then PPL officials, Police and Army men. how cheap. Every body is negatively involved in the case. Civil servants (PPL) are playing dirty games of changing statements. Police is dirty as always. talking of them make me feel stink. And Army: May lord destroy such an army who knows raping its people whom it is supoosed to protect. Who knows bombing its people in Wana and Baluchistan and who doesn`t learn from its sins in east Pakistan.
These pakistanis think, west is against them without reasons. fools. It is not possible in dirty, sinful, destined to hell west that in such a case, offenders escape the punishment. In land of the pure, it is a daily routine.
MMA are silent. Their islam goes to hell when there is a need to talk against powerful offenders. Q league are political prostitutes. And PPP, why will they talk. It is not important to get the power. While Mullahs are good at protecting their sisters being raped in Kashmir, What happens to them when their sisters are raped on their own side of the border.
People Talk of Karo Kari. And yes, he is the father in law of Shazia. Such father in laws should be karo karied.
I really appreciate Shazia`s husband that he is still with her and facing the difficulty with her. Seems that education brings positive changes in attitudes.
Realy, there is no solution let to make the system work. Where there is no justice, I mean speedy justice, there is no hope of survival of the society.
I am sorry. I am realy frustrated and I don`t know what I am typing makes any sense or no.
What is the value of ``Bloody civilians`` in front of a ``high profile army officer``.
All documents are going to be fake? Poor Doctor is going to possess bad character.
Dr Shazia says she can`t sleep. then why General should sleep in presidentail palace. The palace he captured without reasons. this way, he took the responsibility of providing justice to all people of the country. Musharraf is a culprit. Every night, Dr Shazia is sleepless and he sleeps, he becomes worse culprit.
Then PPL officials, Police and Army men. how cheap. Every body is negatively involved in the case. Civil servants (PPL) are playing dirty games of changing statements. Police is dirty as always. talking of them make me feel stink. And Army: May lord destroy such an army who knows raping its people whom it is supoosed to protect. Who knows bombing its people in Wana and Baluchistan and who doesn`t learn from its sins in east Pakistan.
These pakistanis think, west is against them without reasons. fools. It is not possible in dirty, sinful, destined to hell west that in such a case, offenders escape the punishment. In land of the pure, it is a daily routine.
MMA are silent. Their islam goes to hell when there is a need to talk against powerful offenders. Q league are political prostitutes. And PPP, why will they talk. It is not important to get the power. While Mullahs are good at protecting their sisters being raped in Kashmir, What happens to them when their sisters are raped on their own side of the border.
People Talk of Karo Kari. And yes, he is the father in law of Shazia. Such father in laws should be karo karied.
I really appreciate Shazia`s husband that he is still with her and facing the difficulty with her. Seems that education brings positive changes in attitudes.
Realy, there is no solution let to make the system work. Where there is no justice, I mean speedy justice, there is no hope of survival of the society.
I am sorry. I am realy frustrated and I don`t know what I am typing makes any sense or no.
#44 Posted by ijaz_gul on February 22, 2005 9:35:26 am
Ana,
I understand your point and subscribe to it. My contention neither undermines the nature of the crime nor condones it. By stakes, I imply the various linkages and all the associated vested interests. Gravity of the offence nothwithstanding, an individual is being made a pawn.
Cheerios
I understand your point and subscribe to it. My contention neither undermines the nature of the crime nor condones it. By stakes, I imply the various linkages and all the associated vested interests. Gravity of the offence nothwithstanding, an individual is being made a pawn.
Cheerios
#43 Posted by temporal on February 22, 2005 9:12:15 am
arjun # 42:
#28 and # 29
what does this prove;)
#28 and # 29
what does this prove;)
#42 Posted by arjun_m on February 22, 2005 5:46:42 am
No law, no protection in Pakistan: Dr Shazia
* Says PPL officials drugged her to cover up the case
* Says issue being politicised
KARACHI: Dr Shazia, the Sui rape victim, said on Monday there was neither law nor protection in Pakistan.
In an interview with The Guardian newspaper of the UK, Dr Shazia said, “We are very scared. In Pakistan, there is no law, no protection, nothing. Who can we trust? Nobody.” Visitors are not welcome at her house in Karachi, not even with an invitation. A police team is posted at the gate and Rangers prowl the grounds inside.
“You need the permission from the bosses at the top,” says a moustached officer firmly. “The very top.” She has good reason to worry. Until six weeks ago, the 31-year-old was a company doctor at the Sui gas plant, at the farthest reaches of Balochistan. On January 3, she was raped in her bed.
Speaking publicly for the first time since the rape, Dr Shazia told the British newspaper that officials from Pakistan Petroleum Limited (PPL), which runs the plant, at first drugged her to cover up the case.
“Before the police came to take a statement, the (company’s) chief medical officer said: ‘Don’t give them any information.’ Then they injected me with a tranquilliser that made me drowsy,” she said.
At the time, PPL officials said Dr Shazia was unable to file a statement because she was unconscious. Despite her injuries, Dr Shazia was offered no medical treatment by PPL and she had no contact with her family for two days. Then the company flew her to Karachi and checked her into a private psychiatric hospital.
Three PPL doctors have since been arrested on charges of obstructing justice. But despite weeks of police investigation, Dr Shazia’s rapist remains at large.
She said she did not know his identity. “He tied my hands with a telephone wire and blindfolded me with a dupatta [scarf]. But I could feel that he had a moustache and curly hair. And I know his voice.”
Early this week, President Musharraf’s spokesman said an army captain was “under investigation” but had not been arrested. Meanwhile, Balochistan police have re-interviewed Dr Shazia – this time insinuating she was engaged in prostitution, The Guardian report says.
“They asked me where I got the Rs 25,000 that was stolen and when I wore my jewellery. And they said that a cleaner had found used condoms in my room,” she said.
Since then police have announced that DNA tests on the main suspect did not match that found at the scene, heightening fears of a cover-up. Weeks ago, the grandfather of Dr Shazia’s husband said the rape had rendered her kari – a disgrace to family honour – and so she must be divorced, and preferably killed. Such “honour killings” remain common in rural Pakistan.
But her husband, a pipeline engineer, says he is standing by his wife. His grandfather, he said, “is just a bad man, and this has made my wife even more scared. She can’t sleep at night, so I sit by her bed to take care of her”.
For human rights campaigners, the kari rubs salt in the wound of a case combining politics, violence and regressive traditions.
“In this country a woman has no status,” said Shershah Syed, of the Pakistan Medical Association (PMA). “She is an object, like a cow or a bucket.” Having lost their jobs and fearing for their lives, the couple want to leave Pakistan.
“They are politicising this issue, the whole country, everyone,” Dr Shazia said through tears before hanging up. “How can I face anyone any more? We have to get out.”
Only a handful of family visitors may enter the house where Dr Shazia and her husband are living. A senior police officer said, “You have to understand that in this matter we answer to the president.” sana
* Says PPL officials drugged her to cover up the case
* Says issue being politicised
KARACHI: Dr Shazia, the Sui rape victim, said on Monday there was neither law nor protection in Pakistan.
In an interview with The Guardian newspaper of the UK, Dr Shazia said, “We are very scared. In Pakistan, there is no law, no protection, nothing. Who can we trust? Nobody.” Visitors are not welcome at her house in Karachi, not even with an invitation. A police team is posted at the gate and Rangers prowl the grounds inside.
“You need the permission from the bosses at the top,” says a moustached officer firmly. “The very top.” She has good reason to worry. Until six weeks ago, the 31-year-old was a company doctor at the Sui gas plant, at the farthest reaches of Balochistan. On January 3, she was raped in her bed.
Speaking publicly for the first time since the rape, Dr Shazia told the British newspaper that officials from Pakistan Petroleum Limited (PPL), which runs the plant, at first drugged her to cover up the case.
“Before the police came to take a statement, the (company’s) chief medical officer said: ‘Don’t give them any information.’ Then they injected me with a tranquilliser that made me drowsy,” she said.
At the time, PPL officials said Dr Shazia was unable to file a statement because she was unconscious. Despite her injuries, Dr Shazia was offered no medical treatment by PPL and she had no contact with her family for two days. Then the company flew her to Karachi and checked her into a private psychiatric hospital.
Three PPL doctors have since been arrested on charges of obstructing justice. But despite weeks of police investigation, Dr Shazia’s rapist remains at large.
She said she did not know his identity. “He tied my hands with a telephone wire and blindfolded me with a dupatta [scarf]. But I could feel that he had a moustache and curly hair. And I know his voice.”
Early this week, President Musharraf’s spokesman said an army captain was “under investigation” but had not been arrested. Meanwhile, Balochistan police have re-interviewed Dr Shazia – this time insinuating she was engaged in prostitution, The Guardian report says.
“They asked me where I got the Rs 25,000 that was stolen and when I wore my jewellery. And they said that a cleaner had found used condoms in my room,” she said.
Since then police have announced that DNA tests on the main suspect did not match that found at the scene, heightening fears of a cover-up. Weeks ago, the grandfather of Dr Shazia’s husband said the rape had rendered her kari – a disgrace to family honour – and so she must be divorced, and preferably killed. Such “honour killings” remain common in rural Pakistan.
But her husband, a pipeline engineer, says he is standing by his wife. His grandfather, he said, “is just a bad man, and this has made my wife even more scared. She can’t sleep at night, so I sit by her bed to take care of her”.
For human rights campaigners, the kari rubs salt in the wound of a case combining politics, violence and regressive traditions.
“In this country a woman has no status,” said Shershah Syed, of the Pakistan Medical Association (PMA). “She is an object, like a cow or a bucket.” Having lost their jobs and fearing for their lives, the couple want to leave Pakistan.
“They are politicising this issue, the whole country, everyone,” Dr Shazia said through tears before hanging up. “How can I face anyone any more? We have to get out.”
Only a handful of family visitors may enter the house where Dr Shazia and her husband are living. A senior police officer said, “You have to understand that in this matter we answer to the president.” sana
#41 Posted by temporal on February 21, 2005 10:10:53 pm
for those chowkies who do not know how mr jay thackeray operates it is time to revisit him in his own words
Date Posted: Jan-28-100 -2:49:52 PST Reply #: 167 jay
Temporal,
Take it easy, I didn’t /piss/ in your coke.
There is a game called intellectual origami, I take the clean pure paper of Pakistan, fold it around to make it into a jihadic monster and my good Pakistani friends are busy for a few days, removing the folds, ironing it out.
Take it easy I didn’t….
Regards
jay had a field day in the days of old chowk when an article would stay on main page for weeks...and by his own admission now that the articles come and go he feels cheated that poor pakistanis do not fight over his pearls (dropping really;)) as much
Date Posted: Jan-28-100 -2:49:52 PST Reply #: 167 jay
Temporal,
Take it easy, I didn’t /piss/ in your coke.
There is a game called intellectual origami, I take the clean pure paper of Pakistan, fold it around to make it into a jihadic monster and my good Pakistani friends are busy for a few days, removing the folds, ironing it out.
Take it easy I didn’t….
Regards
jay had a field day in the days of old chowk when an article would stay on main page for weeks...and by his own admission now that the articles come and go he feels cheated that poor pakistanis do not fight over his pearls (dropping really;)) as much
#40 Posted by ana on February 21, 2005 10:00:16 pm
doublec:
in addition to the information that ijaz has given you, there is also a report in the pakistan christian post of a 55-year old woman, Hanifan bibi who was ``abducted, stripped, and tortured. .`` in front of her husband and sons and it goes so far as to show the marks on Hanifan bibi`s body.
ijaz, i`m not sure what you mean by ``but in this case, the stakes are high. .`` not that i don`t understand english, but shouldn`t the stakes be high every time a woman is raped? or is it because of the army involvement that you say this. it is a high-profile case yes, but i should think that we should get to the root of the matter with every rape. the sad fact is that with poor women, cases of rape are largely ignored.
doublec: i think i understand what you`re trying to say. . . but it does sound rather condescending even if that isn`t how you intended it. dr. shazia has been through a horrible, painful life-altering ordeal, but suggesting that she be treated like a delicate object comes across as rather patronizing, no? rape victims and their families ``deal`` with the painful reality of what has happened in various ways, and rather than suggesting how she should be treated, and what should be done for her, we can only hope, and wish and pray that she heals, along with her family, and that justice is served. . .
in addition to the information that ijaz has given you, there is also a report in the pakistan christian post of a 55-year old woman, Hanifan bibi who was ``abducted, stripped, and tortured. .`` in front of her husband and sons and it goes so far as to show the marks on Hanifan bibi`s body.
ijaz, i`m not sure what you mean by ``but in this case, the stakes are high. .`` not that i don`t understand english, but shouldn`t the stakes be high every time a woman is raped? or is it because of the army involvement that you say this. it is a high-profile case yes, but i should think that we should get to the root of the matter with every rape. the sad fact is that with poor women, cases of rape are largely ignored.
doublec: i think i understand what you`re trying to say. . . but it does sound rather condescending even if that isn`t how you intended it. dr. shazia has been through a horrible, painful life-altering ordeal, but suggesting that she be treated like a delicate object comes across as rather patronizing, no? rape victims and their families ``deal`` with the painful reality of what has happened in various ways, and rather than suggesting how she should be treated, and what should be done for her, we can only hope, and wish and pray that she heals, along with her family, and that justice is served. . .
#39 Posted by jay on February 21, 2005 8:19:57 pm
Re: # 20
Hi Ahmad midani,
I am disappointed, how a simple proding has brought out the real pakistani in you. If I remeber correctly, Ramanujam died young, may be around 32, he did not get any nobel prize. The case of dalits is well known, and recognised in the constutution, and there are reserved jobs and educational places for them. These were not there in the british india.
Take the case of pakistan. Ahmadias had no legislated disadvantages, after the creation of pakistan, every applicant to a passport has to declare that the riligious guro of ahmadias is a imposter. It is rather pathetic that you chose to compare ramanujam to abdul salam, and compare dalits to ahmadias.
Take it from me ahmad madani, what I am talking about is not individual prejudices, I am talking about is procedures and regulations, approved and up held by the pak legal system and the supreme sharia court. Do something ahmad, tell me why no one dares to celebrate abdus salam acheivement. The question is are you ready. Will you write a post stating that it is to honour abdus salam, and let me asuure you, you will stoned to death.
Hi Ahmad midani,
I am disappointed, how a simple proding has brought out the real pakistani in you. If I remeber correctly, Ramanujam died young, may be around 32, he did not get any nobel prize. The case of dalits is well known, and recognised in the constutution, and there are reserved jobs and educational places for them. These were not there in the british india.
Take the case of pakistan. Ahmadias had no legislated disadvantages, after the creation of pakistan, every applicant to a passport has to declare that the riligious guro of ahmadias is a imposter. It is rather pathetic that you chose to compare ramanujam to abdul salam, and compare dalits to ahmadias.
Take it from me ahmad madani, what I am talking about is not individual prejudices, I am talking about is procedures and regulations, approved and up held by the pak legal system and the supreme sharia court. Do something ahmad, tell me why no one dares to celebrate abdus salam acheivement. The question is are you ready. Will you write a post stating that it is to honour abdus salam, and let me asuure you, you will stoned to death.
#38 Posted by rahul_capri on February 21, 2005 7:51:07 pm
doublec #34
She will never be the same person again and things will change. (Things should never be the same after such gross violation).
What is the basis of such condescending pity?No sir, she will live and she will be fine, if society will do away with such grand ideas of ``gross violation`` etc. The rape will be repeated again and again all her life,by everybody who pities her like that.In a society with such ideas,it is better that she moves somewhere else.
She will never be the same person again and things will change. (Things should never be the same after such gross violation).
What is the basis of such condescending pity?No sir, she will live and she will be fine, if society will do away with such grand ideas of ``gross violation`` etc. The rape will be repeated again and again all her life,by everybody who pities her like that.In a society with such ideas,it is better that she moves somewhere else.
#37 Posted by ijaz_gul on February 21, 2005 7:50:21 pm
Doublec,
Here are some links.
http://www.balaams-ass.com/alhaj/miseries.htm
In March 2000, 12 men broke into the Lourdes Convent and attacked Sister Christine, a 78-year old nun; she died in a nearby hospital a few days later. According to the Christian Liberation Front (CLF), a nongovernmental organization (NGO), the perpetrators of the attack were Muslims who previously had accused Sister Christine of proselytizing. Police officials did not arrest anyone in connection with this attack. In May 2000, five masked men stopped a factory bus of female factory employees in Ferozewala and raped six to eight Christian girls who were passengers; the assailants reportedly spared the two Muslim passengers on the bus. Initially, police officials urged the girls to report that were robbed, not raped; however, when the CLF complained to government officials, the officials immediately registered the cases as rape cases, arrested two suspects, and promised to investigate police behavior. Three of the suspects were charged under the Hudood Ordinances and are scheduled to stand trial in September 2000.
http://www.thepersecution.org/ussd/us00irf.html
PERSECUTION WATCH: Pakistan
Eight Christian women gang-raped by a group of Muslims have expressed their horror at the end of a trial that saw the men they had accused walk free. Three men were acquitted and three others who were found guilty will be free soon because the time they have spent in custody since the May 2000 assaults meets the two-year sentences they received. The victims, aged 16 to 35, wept when the verdicts were read, said International Christian Concern (ICC). `We were all shocked at the outcome of this controversial case and the token decision of the judge that clearly favored the rapists, while giving no concern for the victims,` said a lawyer for one of the women. `We think this is the height of anti-Christian bias.` The men had been accused of raping the women as they returned to their homes after finishing work at a clothing factory, ICC said. The women told how they were raped after their attackers ordered Muslim women passengers to stay in the vehicle. Despite statements from a few witnesses -- including police -- that favored the women, the court sided with the defendants due to influence and pressure from Muslim supporters, ICC said. During the hearings in the last two years, threats were frequently made against the women and their families. They were `very depressed, and feel unsafe and insecure,` ICC said. `They fear that the perpetrators may seek revenge and make good on threats.`
http://www.vineyardfederalway.org/pages/missions/persecution/html/Pakistan.htm
I Hope this is enough
Cheerios
Here are some links.
http://www.balaams-ass.com/alhaj/miseries.htm
In March 2000, 12 men broke into the Lourdes Convent and attacked Sister Christine, a 78-year old nun; she died in a nearby hospital a few days later. According to the Christian Liberation Front (CLF), a nongovernmental organization (NGO), the perpetrators of the attack were Muslims who previously had accused Sister Christine of proselytizing. Police officials did not arrest anyone in connection with this attack. In May 2000, five masked men stopped a factory bus of female factory employees in Ferozewala and raped six to eight Christian girls who were passengers; the assailants reportedly spared the two Muslim passengers on the bus. Initially, police officials urged the girls to report that were robbed, not raped; however, when the CLF complained to government officials, the officials immediately registered the cases as rape cases, arrested two suspects, and promised to investigate police behavior. Three of the suspects were charged under the Hudood Ordinances and are scheduled to stand trial in September 2000.
http://www.thepersecution.org/ussd/us00irf.html
PERSECUTION WATCH: Pakistan
Eight Christian women gang-raped by a group of Muslims have expressed their horror at the end of a trial that saw the men they had accused walk free. Three men were acquitted and three others who were found guilty will be free soon because the time they have spent in custody since the May 2000 assaults meets the two-year sentences they received. The victims, aged 16 to 35, wept when the verdicts were read, said International Christian Concern (ICC). `We were all shocked at the outcome of this controversial case and the token decision of the judge that clearly favored the rapists, while giving no concern for the victims,` said a lawyer for one of the women. `We think this is the height of anti-Christian bias.` The men had been accused of raping the women as they returned to their homes after finishing work at a clothing factory, ICC said. The women told how they were raped after their attackers ordered Muslim women passengers to stay in the vehicle. Despite statements from a few witnesses -- including police -- that favored the women, the court sided with the defendants due to influence and pressure from Muslim supporters, ICC said. During the hearings in the last two years, threats were frequently made against the women and their families. They were `very depressed, and feel unsafe and insecure,` ICC said. `They fear that the perpetrators may seek revenge and make good on threats.`
http://www.vineyardfederalway.org/pages/missions/persecution/html/Pakistan.htm
I Hope this is enough
Cheerios
#36 Posted by teshah on February 21, 2005 6:37:05 pm
Re: # 32
Why extoll this attachment to the mother-land in a politically oriented fasion. I love my `watan`, the country of my birth `Janam bhoomi` as I love and respect my father and my mother by whatever name it is called. I cosider it sometimes my weakness as I felt homesick even in a city like London and came back to my `SohnrhaN des Punjab`.
Why extoll this attachment to the mother-land in a politically oriented fasion. I love my `watan`, the country of my birth `Janam bhoomi` as I love and respect my father and my mother by whatever name it is called. I cosider it sometimes my weakness as I felt homesick even in a city like London and came back to my `SohnrhaN des Punjab`.
#35 Posted by kaurasach on February 21, 2005 3:19:58 pm
I googled her story, didn`t come across the reason for the attack. Her grandfather in law wanted her killed as a Kari. But, her husband is standing by her.
#34 Posted by DoubleC on February 21, 2005 1:42:43 pm
I salute this woman. She had the courage to speak out and that was good. I hope she gets justice.
Her husband would need all the courage he can muster if he wants to see his wife get better. She will never be the same person again and things will change. (Things should never be the same after such gross violation). Depression will set in and it will be difficult to get out.
The Dr. will be broken from within. Only a caring family group, will be able to pull the Dr. out of this deep depression she will find herself, in the coming months. I hope the husband has the sense to get professional help for his wife......because trust me these will be trying times for their family. Not only should he seek professional help for his wife but even himself and their children (if they have any).
The Dr. needs to be treated like a delicate object (I use the term object for lack of words) because a wrong move can trigger her button and will end in her taking her life.
Am i angry at what happened to her..... you bet i am..... do i care if the dog who did it gets caught - no......
All i care for now is for someone to realize the up hill battle they have on their hands to make sure that the Dr. feels better again. This can take years to heal but a lot of care, support and love is required. May God help her.
Ijaz Gul,
You wrote about two incidents with Christian girls. Where (on the web) can i find such information?
Thanks
Her husband would need all the courage he can muster if he wants to see his wife get better. She will never be the same person again and things will change. (Things should never be the same after such gross violation). Depression will set in and it will be difficult to get out.
The Dr. will be broken from within. Only a caring family group, will be able to pull the Dr. out of this deep depression she will find herself, in the coming months. I hope the husband has the sense to get professional help for his wife......because trust me these will be trying times for their family. Not only should he seek professional help for his wife but even himself and their children (if they have any).
The Dr. needs to be treated like a delicate object (I use the term object for lack of words) because a wrong move can trigger her button and will end in her taking her life.
Am i angry at what happened to her..... you bet i am..... do i care if the dog who did it gets caught - no......
All i care for now is for someone to realize the up hill battle they have on their hands to make sure that the Dr. feels better again. This can take years to heal but a lot of care, support and love is required. May God help her.
Ijaz Gul,
You wrote about two incidents with Christian girls. Where (on the web) can i find such information?
Thanks
#33 Posted by Netizen on February 21, 2005 1:00:46 pm
Re: # 20
``I have never seen article about most interesting mathematician from India Mr Ram Nu Jan anywhere in india on his birthday or memoral day( was he dalit or what? I do not know). ``
He wasn`t a Dalit. Here is a link http://www.imsc.ernet.in/~rao/ramanujan
``I have never seen article about most interesting mathematician from India Mr Ram Nu Jan anywhere in india on his birthday or memoral day( was he dalit or what? I do not know). ``
He wasn`t a Dalit. Here is a link http://www.imsc.ernet.in/~rao/ramanujan
#32 Posted by riffatj on February 21, 2005 12:26:14 pm
Dear brother ijaz gul, I really cannot express my respect and love for your patriotism.
Despite many idiocies we Pakistanis intentionally or unknowingly commit against our non-Muslim brethren your attachment with the motherland is commendable.
I salute your greatness (at least in this sense).
#31 Posted by kaurasach on February 21, 2005 12:04:37 pm
Can someone tell me WHY she was targeted? Was it due to her sympathy for a particular cause?
#30 Posted by temporal on February 21, 2005 11:23:29 am
digression:
only by not sweeping them under the rug can those who are perturbed can do something indirectly or help those who are doing something about it directly...every drop, every note, every word helps in the struggle to right wrongs...rape is wrong, intolerance is wrong, separate justice...one set for the rich one for the poor is wrong...discrimination based on religion, gender, conviction is wrong...gawd, the list is long...
MORE HERE if you care
only by not sweeping them under the rug can those who are perturbed can do something indirectly or help those who are doing something about it directly...every drop, every note, every word helps in the struggle to right wrongs...rape is wrong, intolerance is wrong, separate justice...one set for the rich one for the poor is wrong...discrimination based on religion, gender, conviction is wrong...gawd, the list is long...
MORE HERE if you care
#29 Posted by temporal on February 21, 2005 10:42:04 am
thanks emthree1 for the link:
ijaz:
more point to ponder:
Speaking publicly for the first time since the rape, Dr Shazia told the Guardian that officials from Pakistan Petroleum (PPL), which runs the plant, at first drugged her to cover up the case.
``Before the police came to take a statement, the [company`s] chief medical officer said: `Don`t give them any information.` Then they injected me with a tranquilliser that made me drowsy,`` she said.
Meanwhile Baluch police have re-interviewed Dr Shazia - this time insinuating she was engaged in prostitution.
``They asked me where I got the 25,000 rupees [£225] that was stolen and when I wore my jewellery. And they said that a cleaner had found used condoms in my room,`` she said.
CLICK
ijaz:
more point to ponder:
Speaking publicly for the first time since the rape, Dr Shazia told the Guardian that officials from Pakistan Petroleum (PPL), which runs the plant, at first drugged her to cover up the case.
``Before the police came to take a statement, the [company`s] chief medical officer said: `Don`t give them any information.` Then they injected me with a tranquilliser that made me drowsy,`` she said.
Meanwhile Baluch police have re-interviewed Dr Shazia - this time insinuating she was engaged in prostitution.
``They asked me where I got the 25,000 rupees [£225] that was stolen and when I wore my jewellery. And they said that a cleaner had found used condoms in my room,`` she said.
CLICK
#28 Posted by emthree1 on February 21, 2005 10:07:20 am
This from today`s Guardian, UK :
http://www.guardian.co.uk/pakistan/Story/0,2763,1419040,00.html
http://www.guardian.co.uk/pakistan/Story/0,2763,1419040,00.html
#27 Posted by kaurasach on February 21, 2005 8:59:54 am
This is the 6th or 7th article about this. And I`ve already written my sentiments on this crime.
Something new perspective.
I read an anthropolgical study on the rape perceptions between Indians and Fijians. I think the attitude and reaction of South Asians towards rape is unhealthy. Shazia`s family and many modern thinkers on the subcontinent have steered away from the traditional view of the victim and the crime. Overall, it the mediveal sentiments and thoughts about women and rape pervade the dirty minds of our society.
Something new perspective.
I read an anthropolgical study on the rape perceptions between Indians and Fijians. I think the attitude and reaction of South Asians towards rape is unhealthy. Shazia`s family and many modern thinkers on the subcontinent have steered away from the traditional view of the victim and the crime. Overall, it the mediveal sentiments and thoughts about women and rape pervade the dirty minds of our society.
#26 Posted by ijaz_gul on February 21, 2005 8:23:48 am
Temperol,
Human feelings aside, I still feel that this incident will transgress into a different plot. It is just not what most of us tend to believe.
Having said this, I do not condone such a heineous crime. My community is perhaps the most effected n Pakistan. Very recently, two gory incidents took place and the administration fully backed the culprits. In the first, seven christian girls returning to Sangla Hill from a stiching factory were abducted and raped mercilessly. Nothing happened.
In another incident in Sialkot, The influentials reaptedly raped women. The victims later came to demonstrate in front of the Parliament and were put behind bars.
The culture of political elitism and nouvelle richness has brought with it a misguided sense of
greatness in such gory deeds. We here in Pakistan, have to continously grapple with this issue. Priests, bishops and the influential Christians are under constant pressure to help these poor folks, but usaully with no outcome.
Just for the heck of it and to have some fun, some people in Islamabad, had their christian accountant locked behind bars before XMas. They may have won their bet and had a good time, but the enitre family wept and lost all their spendings meant for XMas.
But in this case, the stakes are too high and I would like to get to the root of the matter.
Cheerios
Human feelings aside, I still feel that this incident will transgress into a different plot. It is just not what most of us tend to believe.
Having said this, I do not condone such a heineous crime. My community is perhaps the most effected n Pakistan. Very recently, two gory incidents took place and the administration fully backed the culprits. In the first, seven christian girls returning to Sangla Hill from a stiching factory were abducted and raped mercilessly. Nothing happened.
In another incident in Sialkot, The influentials reaptedly raped women. The victims later came to demonstrate in front of the Parliament and were put behind bars.
The culture of political elitism and nouvelle richness has brought with it a misguided sense of
greatness in such gory deeds. We here in Pakistan, have to continously grapple with this issue. Priests, bishops and the influential Christians are under constant pressure to help these poor folks, but usaully with no outcome.
Just for the heck of it and to have some fun, some people in Islamabad, had their christian accountant locked behind bars before XMas. They may have won their bet and had a good time, but the enitre family wept and lost all their spendings meant for XMas.
But in this case, the stakes are too high and I would like to get to the root of the matter.
Cheerios
#25 Posted by temporal on February 21, 2005 8:01:21 am
ijaz #15:
thanks
find this incredible The report has disclosed that the lady doctor herself stopped the PPL administration from getting a FIR registered against the alleged culprits as she wanted to wait for her husband who was out of the country at that time.
why incredible?...
1: who was/were this PPL adminstrator/s? obviously s/he they were senior member/s of the PPL...would they fail to recognise the agitated state of the victim?...would they have recourse to better counsel....would they have been threatened or manipulated to keep things under wraps...yes. yes....you were not there either...
here is more...the report say the rape occurred the night of jan 2-3...
On January 3, SHO Sui visited the hospital and did not find her in a normal condition as she was unable to give any statement to the police. The next day, the SHO went to the residence of the lady doctor and inspected the room where the rape was reported. He also took certain evidences from the scene of the crime.
...i will assume that the SHO was a busy person...so he or his deputy could not visit the scene of crime immediately...since we are in paksitan and anything can happen in pakistan...let us take this as the norm...and will also assume that the scene of crime would have remained untouched and unaltered inthe intervening 24-48 hours...
and yes, you have stated earlier we should wait for the official findings...so we will wait...btw...to reiterate this is nothing personal...you`re a good soul...we just differ...
rgds
t
ps: a digression:
as men we tend to go overboard...in fact it is almost impossible as men to put oursleves in the shoes of the victim and try it on for size...how easy or simple would be for us if we were the raped doctor to go through with this inquiry?...this statement and court appearence business...this id-ing the vicitms wither in person or on video?...
...let me confess something...i do not think if i were the victim i would go through with all this...i would wish everything would disappear and melt away...i`d rather die than....
thanks
find this incredible The report has disclosed that the lady doctor herself stopped the PPL administration from getting a FIR registered against the alleged culprits as she wanted to wait for her husband who was out of the country at that time.
why incredible?...
1: who was/were this PPL adminstrator/s? obviously s/he they were senior member/s of the PPL...would they fail to recognise the agitated state of the victim?...would they have recourse to better counsel....would they have been threatened or manipulated to keep things under wraps...yes. yes....you were not there either...
here is more...the report say the rape occurred the night of jan 2-3...
On January 3, SHO Sui visited the hospital and did not find her in a normal condition as she was unable to give any statement to the police. The next day, the SHO went to the residence of the lady doctor and inspected the room where the rape was reported. He also took certain evidences from the scene of the crime.
...i will assume that the SHO was a busy person...so he or his deputy could not visit the scene of crime immediately...since we are in paksitan and anything can happen in pakistan...let us take this as the norm...and will also assume that the scene of crime would have remained untouched and unaltered inthe intervening 24-48 hours...
and yes, you have stated earlier we should wait for the official findings...so we will wait...btw...to reiterate this is nothing personal...you`re a good soul...we just differ...
rgds
t
ps: a digression:
as men we tend to go overboard...in fact it is almost impossible as men to put oursleves in the shoes of the victim and try it on for size...how easy or simple would be for us if we were the raped doctor to go through with this inquiry?...this statement and court appearence business...this id-ing the vicitms wither in person or on video?...
...let me confess something...i do not think if i were the victim i would go through with all this...i would wish everything would disappear and melt away...i`d rather die than....
#24 Posted by irfanhamid on February 21, 2005 7:44:56 am
Beena,
Thanks for a great article, the account by the sister-in-law was heartrending. I believe we as a nation need to take decisive steps to stop this vicious perpetration of violence against women. Steps need to be taken at the governmental as well as social levels to stop this beast in its tracks.
1) Much stricter laws for violence against women. But only promulgation of laws is not sufficient, they need to be implemented with an iron fist as well. The government is the main agent for this.
2) Watchdog organizations that pursue these cases effectively. I once volunteered for an NGO that helped women suffering from domestic violence. After about a month of attending meetings I realized that all they were interested in was talking and flirting.
3) A basic change at societal level where it is drilled into children (at school and at home) that women must be respected. That they are equals and should be treated as such. No more should a brother be given the better piece of chicken at dinnertime than his sister by the grandmother, no more should brothers be sent to better schools/universities because they have a penis while their sisters are denied a good education, as this instills in the child that he is somehow superior just because he is male.
4) The financial empowerment of women from all strata of society so that they gain independance from abusive spouses/fathers.
Thanks for a great article, the account by the sister-in-law was heartrending. I believe we as a nation need to take decisive steps to stop this vicious perpetration of violence against women. Steps need to be taken at the governmental as well as social levels to stop this beast in its tracks.
1) Much stricter laws for violence against women. But only promulgation of laws is not sufficient, they need to be implemented with an iron fist as well. The government is the main agent for this.
2) Watchdog organizations that pursue these cases effectively. I once volunteered for an NGO that helped women suffering from domestic violence. After about a month of attending meetings I realized that all they were interested in was talking and flirting.
3) A basic change at societal level where it is drilled into children (at school and at home) that women must be respected. That they are equals and should be treated as such. No more should a brother be given the better piece of chicken at dinnertime than his sister by the grandmother, no more should brothers be sent to better schools/universities because they have a penis while their sisters are denied a good education, as this instills in the child that he is somehow superior just because he is male.
4) The financial empowerment of women from all strata of society so that they gain independance from abusive spouses/fathers.
#23 Posted by Saminasha on February 21, 2005 5:43:56 am
nb,
Not just pma, but as many Pak Am orgs as possible should be organizing/responding... Good article-I didnt know about Anaa.
Not just pma, but as many Pak Am orgs as possible should be organizing/responding... Good article-I didnt know about Anaa.
#22 Posted by nb on February 21, 2005 1:22:38 am
Beena, I have asked this on unplugged, but I will say this again: the Pakistani Medical Association needs to act on this. I have myself worked in unsafe places in India, but you do it because it`s dinned into us that the patients` needs come first. But the time has come that Pakistani doctors act as a group. What have they done so far? I have read a couple of letters to editors of journals, etc, but what have they done to make sure the victim receives justice and this never happens again? Yes, I know, this shouldn`t happen to anyone at all; but many of us doctors do think being doctors somehow protects us. Time to wake up!
#21 Posted by Jahil on February 20, 2005 10:24:15 pm
Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law breaker, it breeds contempt for the law. Justice Louis D. Brandeis
Where law ends, tyranny begins. Margaret Thatcher
There is a higher court than courts of justice and that is the court of conscience. It supersedes all other courts. Mahatma Mohandas K. Gandhi
In Pakistan tyranny rules, the government is a law breaker and the courts of justice are dictated by the symbols of injustice.. Hence, we are left with no other option then to resort to the court of conscience…. come out on the streets and bring revolution... throw the culprits/ dictators/ law breakers out of their offices and let the proletariat rule the country.
or else, some sympathetic ex-pats/ Pakistanis/ humanitarians would keep on arranging for the exile of the innocent.. and the culprits will carry on abusing the masses/ underprivileged while being in the country..
Where law ends, tyranny begins. Margaret Thatcher
There is a higher court than courts of justice and that is the court of conscience. It supersedes all other courts. Mahatma Mohandas K. Gandhi
In Pakistan tyranny rules, the government is a law breaker and the courts of justice are dictated by the symbols of injustice.. Hence, we are left with no other option then to resort to the court of conscience…. come out on the streets and bring revolution... throw the culprits/ dictators/ law breakers out of their offices and let the proletariat rule the country.
or else, some sympathetic ex-pats/ Pakistanis/ humanitarians would keep on arranging for the exile of the innocent.. and the culprits will carry on abusing the masses/ underprivileged while being in the country..
#20 Posted by ahmedmadani on February 20, 2005 10:19:00 pm
Re: # 17
Mr. Jay... thanks for your comment.
Science has no value in masses ( masses are asses). Honestly people from subcontinent do not give damn to these people. I have never seen article about most interesting mathematician from India Mr Ram Nu Jan anywhere in india on his birthday or memoral day( was he dalit or what? I do not know). I read a english book about 21 great mathematicians it included Mr. Ram. Also we do not give damn to Mr. C S Chandrashekhar who was born in karachi. People have no value system about that. You may agree with me both Mr. Kalam or Mr. Khan are not scientist in real sense but engineering managers. No body is nominating them for any scientific achivement but most Desi feel there are ``Great Scientist``. If take pole Mr. Khan will be greatest scientist of Pakistan.
I think they can have you mentioned scientist day without any problem. No body gives damn about these things its mostly Lafangebazi.
Most people are not exposed to liberating ideas about socialism in Pakistan is problem. Socialist economic ideas have not deliverd but the liberal influence and liberating and ethos of questioning status is paramount. The middle class lacks vision as without vision is no light is condition in my country. Due to this the society has lost erotic content as as can be seen in abscence of women in crowds compared to India. The sexual content in society is very less which results in punching bottoms of women in public transport, purposeful touching of women in public places its perversion. Most men see bad moves and content in internet in cafes ( read Beena Shah`s novel) in less lighted places and they he is facing world with many freudian complexes. He becomes submissive about mother and sister but extremely aggressive about other women a typical passive aggresive. He looks at women as if he never seen female on earth, he disrobes mentally which is terrible than many things. Even good people get addicted to this type of molestations. Many young women try to make themselves ugly so not to attract perverts. Many parks are off for females unaccompied. Most pakistanis like india for sexual content in your society. I have been to India most notable thing is prescence of women , women driving scooters, walking , he likes it but at same time he feels its sexual so does not want his mother or sister do that. Its joyful experience if you are coming from interior sindh or many place of B.stan or NWFP. This same condition of young men brought up in sexual repressive society even in cities. So even if Pakistani goes to usa you can not change him mentally. He is like old dog, can not teach new tricks. He does not want to go to source of problem as then he has to go against current and conservative, ill logical timid mind can not think of going against current. I have seen many of our lucky boys they go to perdesh, do zina sex etc,drink wine and liquior, eat pork, eat larded burgers, do not pray, do not live pious life,watch bad movies and bad books brag about it, admire sexuality of women of west world but as he thinks about his own family he becomes conservative can kill his sister for infringement ( which he habitually does and boasts) he becomes conservative as if he is born in Kingdom of S. Arabia. People accept all these in fact people will give succulent reasoning for existance of system. It is to credit of Turky Pasha he changed lot he was social revolutionary in real sense. Indian cinema is liberating to some extent as it is most liked and slowly those sinful things sink down.
Basically nothing can be done realiastically due to lack of liberal ethos. Women of country are destined for miseries to come for years.
I am pragmastic and do not believe in army or man or gods miracles. They can not cure women must endure.
Mr. Jay... thanks for your comment.
Science has no value in masses ( masses are asses). Honestly people from subcontinent do not give damn to these people. I have never seen article about most interesting mathematician from India Mr Ram Nu Jan anywhere in india on his birthday or memoral day( was he dalit or what? I do not know). I read a english book about 21 great mathematicians it included Mr. Ram. Also we do not give damn to Mr. C S Chandrashekhar who was born in karachi. People have no value system about that. You may agree with me both Mr. Kalam or Mr. Khan are not scientist in real sense but engineering managers. No body is nominating them for any scientific achivement but most Desi feel there are ``Great Scientist``. If take pole Mr. Khan will be greatest scientist of Pakistan.
I think they can have you mentioned scientist day without any problem. No body gives damn about these things its mostly Lafangebazi.
Most people are not exposed to liberating ideas about socialism in Pakistan is problem. Socialist economic ideas have not deliverd but the liberal influence and liberating and ethos of questioning status is paramount. The middle class lacks vision as without vision is no light is condition in my country. Due to this the society has lost erotic content as as can be seen in abscence of women in crowds compared to India. The sexual content in society is very less which results in punching bottoms of women in public transport, purposeful touching of women in public places its perversion. Most men see bad moves and content in internet in cafes ( read Beena Shah`s novel) in less lighted places and they he is facing world with many freudian complexes. He becomes submissive about mother and sister but extremely aggressive about other women a typical passive aggresive. He looks at women as if he never seen female on earth, he disrobes mentally which is terrible than many things. Even good people get addicted to this type of molestations. Many young women try to make themselves ugly so not to attract perverts. Many parks are off for females unaccompied. Most pakistanis like india for sexual content in your society. I have been to India most notable thing is prescence of women , women driving scooters, walking , he likes it but at same time he feels its sexual so does not want his mother or sister do that. Its joyful experience if you are coming from interior sindh or many place of B.stan or NWFP. This same condition of young men brought up in sexual repressive society even in cities. So even if Pakistani goes to usa you can not change him mentally. He is like old dog, can not teach new tricks. He does not want to go to source of problem as then he has to go against current and conservative, ill logical timid mind can not think of going against current. I have seen many of our lucky boys they go to perdesh, do zina sex etc,drink wine and liquior, eat pork, eat larded burgers, do not pray, do not live pious life,watch bad movies and bad books brag about it, admire sexuality of women of west world but as he thinks about his own family he becomes conservative can kill his sister for infringement ( which he habitually does and boasts) he becomes conservative as if he is born in Kingdom of S. Arabia. People accept all these in fact people will give succulent reasoning for existance of system. It is to credit of Turky Pasha he changed lot he was social revolutionary in real sense. Indian cinema is liberating to some extent as it is most liked and slowly those sinful things sink down.
Basically nothing can be done realiastically due to lack of liberal ethos. Women of country are destined for miseries to come for years.
I am pragmastic and do not believe in army or man or gods miracles. They can not cure women must endure.
#19 Posted by twintopaz on February 20, 2005 10:14:36 pm
Dear all,
Is there any PRACTICAL way of helping the victim to get justice?
lets not waste our energy arguing with each other..i am sure ALL of us wants that criminals should be punished..so lets act..lets do something..chowk is a good plate form to use ...any suggestions?
Is there any PRACTICAL way of helping the victim to get justice?
lets not waste our energy arguing with each other..i am sure ALL of us wants that criminals should be punished..so lets act..lets do something..chowk is a good plate form to use ...any suggestions?
#18 Posted by BeeJay on February 20, 2005 9:19:55 pm
Ms. Sarwar, I have three points to make:
1) Subjugation of the weak in general, and women in particular is a world-wide phenomenon. What happened to the lady doctor in question was terrible, of course, but unfortunately it is not an isolated event, just another manifestation of the same disease which leads to all those dowry deaths in India and the female circumcisions in Nigeria, etc. Pakistan is a special case with three parties: the army has the absolute powers of a dictatorship (which makes it absolutely arrogant, as well as corrupt), further compounded by a rooted-in-tradition feudal structure which is incapable of thinking outside the box (note the terms “pure and unsullied”, “honour”, “talk of Karo Kari”, all coming from people who are on HER SIDE, as if such terms have relevance in the twenty-first century, one would think that by now the whole world knows that rape is not a crime of sex, but that of violence), and the “all-knowing” beards (about whom the less said the better). Perhaps the media and rights organizations are hoping that this event will provide the spark which can invoke in people the courage to bring down this dictatorial, unjust set-up. However, the powers in place are well aware of that possibility and will do everything they can to prevent it. Unfortunately, the gun-powder (the outrage among the people) has been so deeply permeated through repeated abuse by those three parties, it is no more capable of lighting up. Period.
2) This really, really hurts (the idealist in me) to admit, since I so much feel for the lady doctor, but if I were a caring friend of her, my advice would be to (a) get away from that negative environment, (b) get some serious counseling to deal with the trauma, (c) pick up the pieces that you can, (d) proceed to live your interrupted life, keeping in mind that (e) life will never be the same again, but over time, your positive actions will help your injured dignity to recover. The doctor did not seek out to become a poster child for the rights groups, and if she wishes to be left alone, that wish should be respected.
3) The media has a job to do. It is doing the best it can, given the setup that exists, often at great risks for themselves. That is appreciated by the world at large and it is wished that there could be more of that inside Pakistan.
Thank you for this article as well as for your (evident) efforts in the past to keep the spotlight on issues related to injustices to women.
1) Subjugation of the weak in general, and women in particular is a world-wide phenomenon. What happened to the lady doctor in question was terrible, of course, but unfortunately it is not an isolated event, just another manifestation of the same disease which leads to all those dowry deaths in India and the female circumcisions in Nigeria, etc. Pakistan is a special case with three parties: the army has the absolute powers of a dictatorship (which makes it absolutely arrogant, as well as corrupt), further compounded by a rooted-in-tradition feudal structure which is incapable of thinking outside the box (note the terms “pure and unsullied”, “honour”, “talk of Karo Kari”, all coming from people who are on HER SIDE, as if such terms have relevance in the twenty-first century, one would think that by now the whole world knows that rape is not a crime of sex, but that of violence), and the “all-knowing” beards (about whom the less said the better). Perhaps the media and rights organizations are hoping that this event will provide the spark which can invoke in people the courage to bring down this dictatorial, unjust set-up. However, the powers in place are well aware of that possibility and will do everything they can to prevent it. Unfortunately, the gun-powder (the outrage among the people) has been so deeply permeated through repeated abuse by those three parties, it is no more capable of lighting up. Period.
2) This really, really hurts (the idealist in me) to admit, since I so much feel for the lady doctor, but if I were a caring friend of her, my advice would be to (a) get away from that negative environment, (b) get some serious counseling to deal with the trauma, (c) pick up the pieces that you can, (d) proceed to live your interrupted life, keeping in mind that (e) life will never be the same again, but over time, your positive actions will help your injured dignity to recover. The doctor did not seek out to become a poster child for the rights groups, and if she wishes to be left alone, that wish should be respected.
3) The media has a job to do. It is doing the best it can, given the setup that exists, often at great risks for themselves. That is appreciated by the world at large and it is wished that there could be more of that inside Pakistan.
Thank you for this article as well as for your (evident) efforts in the past to keep the spotlight on issues related to injustices to women.
#17 Posted by jay on February 20, 2005 9:08:50 pm
Re: # 12
Hi Mr. Madani,
You are the most honest pakistani on the chowk. I have a few, what temporal calls as the dead horses, to beat. By branding them as dead horses, he is only trying to bypass the central tenet, the surviving and the eternal spirit, of the dead horse.
There are quite a few things the educated can do, the first being to write about the reality of pakistan, rather than trying to white wash and hide the truth. Simplest will be to honour Andus salam. If I remember correctly February 27 or something like that is the birth day of abdus salam. Why not Chowk publish an article, clearly stating that it is in memeory of the dead man.
So far chowk has never done that, there have been articles, but never has any one dared to say that it is in honour of him. For a pakistani to write an article in honour of abdus is blasphemy, it is not the fear of ISI that prevents the pakistanis from doing such a imple defying act, it is because they beleive thatpakaistan being an islamic country should not honour him, and this reviles me.
There is symbolism in the act of honouring abdus salam, and no pakistani, even on the anonymity of chowk will dare to do that. i wonder if chowk editors will allow.
Being a very honest pakistani, let both of us see how this simple idea will be responded to by pakistanis.
Hi Mr. Madani,
You are the most honest pakistani on the chowk. I have a few, what temporal calls as the dead horses, to beat. By branding them as dead horses, he is only trying to bypass the central tenet, the surviving and the eternal spirit, of the dead horse.
There are quite a few things the educated can do, the first being to write about the reality of pakistan, rather than trying to white wash and hide the truth. Simplest will be to honour Andus salam. If I remember correctly February 27 or something like that is the birth day of abdus salam. Why not Chowk publish an article, clearly stating that it is in memeory of the dead man.
So far chowk has never done that, there have been articles, but never has any one dared to say that it is in honour of him. For a pakistani to write an article in honour of abdus is blasphemy, it is not the fear of ISI that prevents the pakistanis from doing such a imple defying act, it is because they beleive thatpakaistan being an islamic country should not honour him, and this reviles me.
There is symbolism in the act of honouring abdus salam, and no pakistani, even on the anonymity of chowk will dare to do that. i wonder if chowk editors will allow.
Being a very honest pakistani, let both of us see how this simple idea will be responded to by pakistanis.
#16 Posted by satyamvada on February 20, 2005 8:37:36 pm
Jay,
Many pakistanis on this site pretend as if it was Zia that was the cause of everything
bad in Pakistan. That is not true at all....
Zia was only the product of a process that had long been started in the early 50`s.
All books from India/Indian authors were purged from Pakistani libraries
when the process of islamization had started in the 50`s, massive numbers of Hindus
were converted under threat. The demonization of India and Hindus had begun
almost immediately. Zia was just one of the first products of that process begun
in the early 50`s.
#15 Posted by ijaz_gul on February 20, 2005 8:23:52 pm
BBC reports that the DNA samples do not match any of the accused.
Balochistan rape mystery deepens
DNA samples taken from the scene of the gang rape of a doctor in the Pakistani town of Sui do not match those of the suspects, officials say.
The victim will now be asked to identify the rapists from video and audio recordings of the 13 suspects, the local police chief has said.
The rape incident sparked violence that killed eight in the country`s troubled southern province of Balochistan.
The suspects include regular and paramilitary troops.
The videos that contain photographs of all the suspects, including a captain of the Pakistan army, will be shown to the complainant immediately after the Shia mourning month of Moharram, police officials said.
Correspondents say that the alleged involvement of an army officer in the doctor`s rape in December had fuelled the unrest in Balochistan.
The doctor was working in a hospital run by Pakistan Petroleum Limited which has a huge gas plant in Sui - home to Pakistan`s largest natural gas reserves.
A military spokesman in Quetta, the provincial capital, said the captain was being held by the military authorities pending further progress in the case.
Here is also the highlights of the report given by PPL to the Parliament.
ISLAMABAD: A highly confidential internal classified report of the Pakistan Petroleum Limited (PPL) to be unfolded in a closed-door meeting today (Wednesday) could give a new twist to the rape of Dr Shazia.
The seven-page presentation to members of the National Assembly standing committee on Petroleum Ministry today, will highlight threats to the life of Dr Shazia after the rape. Sources said the word of threat has been used at least three times on different pages. The report says that it was because of these threats that she was immediately sent to Karachi and police guards posted outside her residence.
However, the secret report does not say that from which quarter the personal security of Dr Shazia was under threat after her rape. The PPL report available with The News also quotes a responsible authority as saying that 3-4 defence security guards were seen coming out of the lady doctor’s house.
The PPL has claimed that ‘law and order disturbance at Sui may not entirely be connected with Dr Shazia incident’. The PPL report contains details of the rape incident of January 2 that has triggered a violent reaction in Balochistan province. This view is shared by 17 MNAs of the National Assembly committee on Petroleum and Natural Resources, who are meeting here on Friday.
A comprehensive briefing will be given by the top management of PPL in a closed- door meeting. Petroleum Minister Amanullah Jadoon and secretary of the ministry have been asked to appear before the committee and answer questions put by the committee to be presided over by MNA Dr Noorjahan Panezai.
The PPL report defends the top management of PPL, earlier accused by police of concealing facts of the rape case and destroying the evidence from the spot.
Since eruption of the crisis in Balochistan, the PPL bosses for the first time have made an attempt to get their name clear and directly held the lady doctor responsible for delayed action against the culprits. The report has alleged that none other than Dr Shazia herself stopped the PPL administration from a prompt police action, as she continued to insist that she was robbed, not sexually assaulted.
The report has disclosed that the lady doctor herself stopped the PPL administration from getting a FIR registered against the alleged culprits as she wanted to wait for her husband who was out of the country at that time.
The Petroleum Ministry has also accused the national media of ‘blowing the issue out of proportion’ as it thought that the incident did not deserve such kind of converge at the national and international level.
According to the available copy of the classified report, the Pakistan Petroleum Limited has given details of the incident and made an attempt to replies charges levelled against its administration.
Giving details of the rape events, the official report said, the incident actually occurred on the night of January 2 and 3, when she was alone in her room. When people rushed to her place to help here , Dr Shazia said that she was only robbed of her belongings. She did not tell anyone at the spot that she was also raped by robbers.
However, the report said it was evident that Dr Shazia was traumatized and she wanted to proceed to Karachi to be with her family immediately. The report further says that Dr Shazia also desired that she did not want to lodge any FIR against anyone or lodge complaint with the local police. The PPL claimed that its staff immediately provided medication appropriate to her condition.
On January 3, SHO Sui visited the hospital and did not find her in a normal condition as she was unable to give any statement to the police. The next day, the SHO went to the residence of the lady doctor and inspected the room where the rape was reported. He also took certain evidences from the scene of the crime.
The PPL claimed that it fully facilitated the visit of SHO to the house of the lady doctor and extended full cooperation. However, the report said that on the night of January 4/5, the lady doctor was moved to Karachi and for consideration of her ‘personal security’ and treatment and enable her to be with the family.
On January 5, she was taken by her family to the residence. The PPL report said that in the judgement of the PPL management the ‘well being and security’ of lady doctor at that time was of foremost importance.
On January 7, the SHO was given the address of Dr Shazia in Karachi and assured of full cooperation. On January 7, the manager Sui wrote to police authorities and DCO Dera Bugti about the incident as learnt from Dr Shazia.
Earlier, on January 3, the district Nazim wrote to DAO with copies to senior officials alleging that PPL lady doctor was raped, asking him to investigate and take a stern action against the culprits.
The report has quoted the district Nazim as writing to authorities that 3 or 4 DSP were seem coming out of lady doctor house after allegedly raping her. The next day, a DSG officer was named as the prime accused and the PPL’s Sui office received a copy of this letter on January 5. On January 8, the management requested police authorities in Balochistan and Karachi to provide immediate security at Shazia’s residence as her security was in danger.
In her statement, Dr Shazia said, she was not in a position to give any statement, but added that she would get an FIR registered after consulting her husband, who was then out of country. On January 11 the government of Balochistan ordered a judicial enquiry. The PPL report has also lashed out at the media and police for claiming that its management was involved in hiding the case.
The report said that there was no truth in media reports and police statements alleging that PPL management had concealed evidence, and that it had not cooperated in the investigation. On the contrary, the report claimed that the above events show that the PPL management did not destroy any evidence, but on contrary provided all help to investigating officers.
Cheerios
Balochistan rape mystery deepens
DNA samples taken from the scene of the gang rape of a doctor in the Pakistani town of Sui do not match those of the suspects, officials say.
The victim will now be asked to identify the rapists from video and audio recordings of the 13 suspects, the local police chief has said.
The rape incident sparked violence that killed eight in the country`s troubled southern province of Balochistan.
The suspects include regular and paramilitary troops.
The videos that contain photographs of all the suspects, including a captain of the Pakistan army, will be shown to the complainant immediately after the Shia mourning month of Moharram, police officials said.
Correspondents say that the alleged involvement of an army officer in the doctor`s rape in December had fuelled the unrest in Balochistan.
The doctor was working in a hospital run by Pakistan Petroleum Limited which has a huge gas plant in Sui - home to Pakistan`s largest natural gas reserves.
A military spokesman in Quetta, the provincial capital, said the captain was being held by the military authorities pending further progress in the case.
Here is also the highlights of the report given by PPL to the Parliament.
ISLAMABAD: A highly confidential internal classified report of the Pakistan Petroleum Limited (PPL) to be unfolded in a closed-door meeting today (Wednesday) could give a new twist to the rape of Dr Shazia.
The seven-page presentation to members of the National Assembly standing committee on Petroleum Ministry today, will highlight threats to the life of Dr Shazia after the rape. Sources said the word of threat has been used at least three times on different pages. The report says that it was because of these threats that she was immediately sent to Karachi and police guards posted outside her residence.
However, the secret report does not say that from which quarter the personal security of Dr Shazia was under threat after her rape. The PPL report available with The News also quotes a responsible authority as saying that 3-4 defence security guards were seen coming out of the lady doctor’s house.
The PPL has claimed that ‘law and order disturbance at Sui may not entirely be connected with Dr Shazia incident’. The PPL report contains details of the rape incident of January 2 that has triggered a violent reaction in Balochistan province. This view is shared by 17 MNAs of the National Assembly committee on Petroleum and Natural Resources, who are meeting here on Friday.
A comprehensive briefing will be given by the top management of PPL in a closed- door meeting. Petroleum Minister Amanullah Jadoon and secretary of the ministry have been asked to appear before the committee and answer questions put by the committee to be presided over by MNA Dr Noorjahan Panezai.
The PPL report defends the top management of PPL, earlier accused by police of concealing facts of the rape case and destroying the evidence from the spot.
Since eruption of the crisis in Balochistan, the PPL bosses for the first time have made an attempt to get their name clear and directly held the lady doctor responsible for delayed action against the culprits. The report has alleged that none other than Dr Shazia herself stopped the PPL administration from a prompt police action, as she continued to insist that she was robbed, not sexually assaulted.
The report has disclosed that the lady doctor herself stopped the PPL administration from getting a FIR registered against the alleged culprits as she wanted to wait for her husband who was out of the country at that time.
The Petroleum Ministry has also accused the national media of ‘blowing the issue out of proportion’ as it thought that the incident did not deserve such kind of converge at the national and international level.
According to the available copy of the classified report, the Pakistan Petroleum Limited has given details of the incident and made an attempt to replies charges levelled against its administration.
Giving details of the rape events, the official report said, the incident actually occurred on the night of January 2 and 3, when she was alone in her room. When people rushed to her place to help here , Dr Shazia said that she was only robbed of her belongings. She did not tell anyone at the spot that she was also raped by robbers.
However, the report said it was evident that Dr Shazia was traumatized and she wanted to proceed to Karachi to be with her family immediately. The report further says that Dr Shazia also desired that she did not want to lodge any FIR against anyone or lodge complaint with the local police. The PPL claimed that its staff immediately provided medication appropriate to her condition.
On January 3, SHO Sui visited the hospital and did not find her in a normal condition as she was unable to give any statement to the police. The next day, the SHO went to the residence of the lady doctor and inspected the room where the rape was reported. He also took certain evidences from the scene of the crime.
The PPL claimed that it fully facilitated the visit of SHO to the house of the lady doctor and extended full cooperation. However, the report said that on the night of January 4/5, the lady doctor was moved to Karachi and for consideration of her ‘personal security’ and treatment and enable her to be with the family.
On January 5, she was taken by her family to the residence. The PPL report said that in the judgement of the PPL management the ‘well being and security’ of lady doctor at that time was of foremost importance.
On January 7, the SHO was given the address of Dr Shazia in Karachi and assured of full cooperation. On January 7, the manager Sui wrote to police authorities and DCO Dera Bugti about the incident as learnt from Dr Shazia.
Earlier, on January 3, the district Nazim wrote to DAO with copies to senior officials alleging that PPL lady doctor was raped, asking him to investigate and take a stern action against the culprits.
The report has quoted the district Nazim as writing to authorities that 3 or 4 DSP were seem coming out of lady doctor house after allegedly raping her. The next day, a DSG officer was named as the prime accused and the PPL’s Sui office received a copy of this letter on January 5. On January 8, the management requested police authorities in Balochistan and Karachi to provide immediate security at Shazia’s residence as her security was in danger.
In her statement, Dr Shazia said, she was not in a position to give any statement, but added that she would get an FIR registered after consulting her husband, who was then out of country. On January 11 the government of Balochistan ordered a judicial enquiry. The PPL report has also lashed out at the media and police for claiming that its management was involved in hiding the case.
The report said that there was no truth in media reports and police statements alleging that PPL management had concealed evidence, and that it had not cooperated in the investigation. On the contrary, the report claimed that the above events show that the PPL management did not destroy any evidence, but on contrary provided all help to investigating officers.
Cheerios
#14 Posted by temporal on February 20, 2005 7:37:15 pm
jay thackeray # 11:
disagree when you say The point is that this article tries to portray the rape as an exception with out touching up on the legal system that supports it.
when you stop flogging your single issue dead horse...which everyone but you seemingly knows is dead...you will realise that this is not the only column or article by the versatile ms. sarwar...she has written and extensivley covered the shariah courts, hudood ordinance, its recent amendments and other related issues...
...pls. google before you jump on your high horse and start flogging a dead one...
rgs
t
disagree when you say The point is that this article tries to portray the rape as an exception with out touching up on the legal system that supports it.
when you stop flogging your single issue dead horse...which everyone but you seemingly knows is dead...you will realise that this is not the only column or article by the versatile ms. sarwar...she has written and extensivley covered the shariah courts, hudood ordinance, its recent amendments and other related issues...
...pls. google before you jump on your high horse and start flogging a dead one...
rgs
t
#13 Posted by cipram on February 20, 2005 6:43:02 pm
Beena ,
Thanxs for high light the issue.
it`s so horrifying every other day we read about gang rape.
Dr shazia `s case kept me wide awake so many nights.
i think women should start country wide campaign against it.
and that need awareness first.
Thanxs for high light the issue.
it`s so horrifying every other day we read about gang rape.
Dr shazia `s case kept me wide awake so many nights.
i think women should start country wide campaign against it.
and that need awareness first.
#12 Posted by ahmedmadani on February 20, 2005 6:30:26 pm
Re: # 2 Mr.Jay what you consistently write is very agreeable but you need to tone down , do not condescend about these problems. Problems are real and solutions are not ready made or easy. I have travelled lot in Sindh before I became sick due to mental depression. Once I met a nice educated but unemployed Sindhi native who was from landless labour class working for his feudal master in Thatta area. I employed him for short time in loading and unloading boxes. We had a lunch and we chatted about things. I remarked these fudal landlords have been burden said casually. He told me he differs and I was astonished. He said Madani Sahib you do not understand , he may be brute and fudal etc but he will protect women and their honor from hooligans. He told me without them women ( mostly uneducated, dirt poor and helpless) will have no saviour.
Things are more worst than Ms. Beena described. When the fudal lords are finished hope there is some protective sytem developed.
A Kufr Hindu writer Premchand wrote 70 years ago `` woman your life`s story- breast full of milk and eyes full of tears`` is still true in Rural parts of country.
The things will change slowly. The things will change in evolution than revolution. The military is stability and wrong to expect revolutionary changes by coup. The political or social cliamte does not exist as no true leftist or even infantile leftist mass movements attained any critical mass any time in last 57 years. Indian leftist movements always existed even predating advent of Mr. Gandhiji. Leftist movements in India prepared the evolutonary change dating with rise of communist parties. They helped to develop a egaleterian atmosphere for ideas of socialism, women liberation and abhoring medival ideas about women. This leftist movements have enabled evolutionary change in India peacefully and lower caste people have become ruling leaders. The change is both vertical and horizontal in circulation with out blood shed. The egaletarian ideas are accepted by all parties though them may not follow them in spirit and letters.
Your criticism of educated people is not right. What they can do ? Where is leadership in this matters, you can not expect middle class to do revolutionary things as they have to support families. You need poor who want to get liberated and are galvanised. That condition does not exist. I read some time back a book ( after my maternal uncle died went through his books as final ritual. There was a book on Indian left. he was commie as they say, hopeless romantic and devoted life to skeletol left movement in Karachi). The leadership is given by example. Indian left leadership was par excellence. Mr. Dange (deciple of tilak) a brahmin ?) was imprisoned more than Mr. Gandhi by british govt., Mr. Nabodopod ( some thing like that) a high class brahmin devoted all life to that movement ( its touching the last departure of his mother), Ajay Ghosh, Mazzafur Ahmed, S.M Joshi, Ramachandra Lohia a Jain a socialist, small local leaders like Hari Krismna Konar,P C Joshi, they have given story of almost 25 leaders. Everybody has paid dues being in british prison and served the people. History and character has earned respect for left ethos. Pakistan has missed ethos of liberation generated by over all sympathy for leftist ideas.
I wish you and readers good 2005.
Things are more worst than Ms. Beena described. When the fudal lords are finished hope there is some protective sytem developed.
A Kufr Hindu writer Premchand wrote 70 years ago `` woman your life`s story- breast full of milk and eyes full of tears`` is still true in Rural parts of country.
The things will change slowly. The things will change in evolution than revolution. The military is stability and wrong to expect revolutionary changes by coup. The political or social cliamte does not exist as no true leftist or even infantile leftist mass movements attained any critical mass any time in last 57 years. Indian leftist movements always existed even predating advent of Mr. Gandhiji. Leftist movements in India prepared the evolutonary change dating with rise of communist parties. They helped to develop a egaleterian atmosphere for ideas of socialism, women liberation and abhoring medival ideas about women. This leftist movements have enabled evolutionary change in India peacefully and lower caste people have become ruling leaders. The change is both vertical and horizontal in circulation with out blood shed. The egaletarian ideas are accepted by all parties though them may not follow them in spirit and letters.
Your criticism of educated people is not right. What they can do ? Where is leadership in this matters, you can not expect middle class to do revolutionary things as they have to support families. You need poor who want to get liberated and are galvanised. That condition does not exist. I read some time back a book ( after my maternal uncle died went through his books as final ritual. There was a book on Indian left. he was commie as they say, hopeless romantic and devoted life to skeletol left movement in Karachi). The leadership is given by example. Indian left leadership was par excellence. Mr. Dange (deciple of tilak) a brahmin ?) was imprisoned more than Mr. Gandhi by british govt., Mr. Nabodopod ( some thing like that) a high class brahmin devoted all life to that movement ( its touching the last departure of his mother), Ajay Ghosh, Mazzafur Ahmed, S.M Joshi, Ramachandra Lohia a Jain a socialist, small local leaders like Hari Krismna Konar,P C Joshi, they have given story of almost 25 leaders. Everybody has paid dues being in british prison and served the people. History and character has earned respect for left ethos. Pakistan has missed ethos of liberation generated by over all sympathy for leftist ideas.
I wish you and readers good 2005.
#11 Posted by jay on February 20, 2005 6:23:25 pm
Re: # 5
The point is that this article tries to portray the rape as an exception with out touching up on the legal system that supports it.
Post #7
This is another clasic example of blaing Zia. The highest court in pakistan is the sharia court, and it can strike down the hoodood. They will not simply because it is consistant with islam. Then we have this so called islamic scholars on chowk, telling that hoodood is against islam. Stop this pretensions, accept the reality, at least the views of the learned sharia court of pakistan.
Do not forget, they took up the issue of interest rates in pakistan. So sharia court is not a dead institution, it did take up the charging of interst which has reamined for so long, a lot longer than any Zia rules. Hence the fact is that the hoodood has the approval of the sharia courts, and it is time that the pakistanis accept the at least the rule of law in the case of islamic laws.
The point is that this article tries to portray the rape as an exception with out touching up on the legal system that supports it.
Post #7
This is another clasic example of blaing Zia. The highest court in pakistan is the sharia court, and it can strike down the hoodood. They will not simply because it is consistant with islam. Then we have this so called islamic scholars on chowk, telling that hoodood is against islam. Stop this pretensions, accept the reality, at least the views of the learned sharia court of pakistan.
Do not forget, they took up the issue of interest rates in pakistan. So sharia court is not a dead institution, it did take up the charging of interst which has reamined for so long, a lot longer than any Zia rules. Hence the fact is that the hoodood has the approval of the sharia courts, and it is time that the pakistanis accept the at least the rule of law in the case of islamic laws.
#10 Posted by temporal on February 20, 2005 5:46:36 pm
digression:
in the last 35 or so articles here by my count there have been at least six articles that discuss islam or this rape directly or indirectly…and those abdul hates who hesitate not to discuss the glories of their twisted version of islam and who inundate chowk with cut n pastes of conversions and how glorious their religion is are absent from these threads…their absence and silence thunders…their hollowness evident for all to see…astagfirallah!
in the last 35 or so articles here by my count there have been at least six articles that discuss islam or this rape directly or indirectly…and those abdul hates who hesitate not to discuss the glories of their twisted version of islam and who inundate chowk with cut n pastes of conversions and how glorious their religion is are absent from these threads…their absence and silence thunders…their hollowness evident for all to see…astagfirallah!
#9 Posted by Jane on February 20, 2005 5:43:24 pm
This story exemplifies why Western perceptions exist of Pakistan that paint it as a dark and evil culture.
I recently traveled to Pakistan`s neighbor, India, and admittedly, before I left the US, I was very wary of the men in India. I had read so much about Indian women being burnt with acid or young brides being murdered for dowry. I took pains to pack utterly conservative clothing in order to prevent any unwanted advances from men and to ensure I wasn`t sending the wrong message with my attire.
What I realized after spending over a month in India, was that these dark, disturbing stories of mistreated women while they are true, they aren`t as widespread as the media would lead readers in the West to believe. In fact, I quickly became comfortable there and realized that the good people vastly outnumbered the bad people.
The bottom line is that all countries -whether they are in North America, Europe, the Middle East, Pakistan, Afghanistan, or India- must overcome political corruption so that when crimes occur, proper investigations can be carried out and criminals can and will be prosecuted.
There has to be REAL deterrents to heinous crimes such as Dr. Shazia`s heartbreaking case by exacting appropriate punishment to offenders.
There has to be a system in place to ensure that justice cannot be avoided by any means.
I recently traveled to Pakistan`s neighbor, India, and admittedly, before I left the US, I was very wary of the men in India. I had read so much about Indian women being burnt with acid or young brides being murdered for dowry. I took pains to pack utterly conservative clothing in order to prevent any unwanted advances from men and to ensure I wasn`t sending the wrong message with my attire.
What I realized after spending over a month in India, was that these dark, disturbing stories of mistreated women while they are true, they aren`t as widespread as the media would lead readers in the West to believe. In fact, I quickly became comfortable there and realized that the good people vastly outnumbered the bad people.
The bottom line is that all countries -whether they are in North America, Europe, the Middle East, Pakistan, Afghanistan, or India- must overcome political corruption so that when crimes occur, proper investigations can be carried out and criminals can and will be prosecuted.
There has to be REAL deterrents to heinous crimes such as Dr. Shazia`s heartbreaking case by exacting appropriate punishment to offenders.
There has to be a system in place to ensure that justice cannot be avoided by any means.
#8 Posted by sajal on February 20, 2005 5:32:16 pm
I do wonder if insted of declaring dr shazia as ``Kari`` these Jirgas should proclaim death sentence on themselves as it was becasue of their weakness a woman was raped.
She is not the one dishonored they are, tell those dishonorable men to go kill themselves to restore their honor. Why should the victim be killed ?
If you being the supreme MEN cannot protect the women it is time you die with shame.
As far as i am concerned,
victims are honorable and innocent.
She is not the one dishonored they are, tell those dishonorable men to go kill themselves to restore their honor. Why should the victim be killed ?
If you being the supreme MEN cannot protect the women it is time you die with shame.
As far as i am concerned,
victims are honorable and innocent.
#7 Posted by teshah on February 20, 2005 5:30:29 pm
Re: # 3
``that i would not disagree with, most pakistani`s are uneducated and unknowing of the basic tenants of Islam and are more inclined towards following the mullah`s and maulvi`s``
What are basic tenants of Islam in your opinion, especially with regard to human rights? Woman is treated in Islam as a sub-human creature , a tilth (kheti)to be used by men as they desired and beaten up when suspected to be rebellious(See verse 34 of SURA Nisa). The rape was institutionalized in the form of slavery in pre-Islamic Arab society and this practice continued even after the advent of Islam. In fact Islam did not change any institution prevalent in the tribal ummi Arab society. The religion was meant actually for the ummy Arabs who are supposed to have best knowledge of it. What has education to do with this, may it be in Madrissa or school. It is all Jahlia indoctrination, Inshallah, Mashaallh.
As for Hadood laws they were imposed by a userper Zia only as a political stunt of his scheme of `Islamizaion`. These continued side by side the common law. The Hadood in Quranic law about adultry requires four witnesses to be produced who had seen the act performed pornographically and if the accuser is able to bring only one less he is to be charged of `Qazaf`, awarded 80 lashes and disqualfied for ever as a witness. But in this `Inshaallah, Mashaallah` culture common law (Tahzir)comes handy to change the track altogether when the Quran says those who do not judge by the laws of Allah are Fasiq, Fajir and what not.
So under the Quranic Hadood Dr. Shazia may herself be accused of adultry if she cannot produce four witnesses of the standard required.
``that i would not disagree with, most pakistani`s are uneducated and unknowing of the basic tenants of Islam and are more inclined towards following the mullah`s and maulvi`s``
What are basic tenants of Islam in your opinion, especially with regard to human rights? Woman is treated in Islam as a sub-human creature , a tilth (kheti)to be used by men as they desired and beaten up when suspected to be rebellious(See verse 34 of SURA Nisa). The rape was institutionalized in the form of slavery in pre-Islamic Arab society and this practice continued even after the advent of Islam. In fact Islam did not change any institution prevalent in the tribal ummi Arab society. The religion was meant actually for the ummy Arabs who are supposed to have best knowledge of it. What has education to do with this, may it be in Madrissa or school. It is all Jahlia indoctrination, Inshallah, Mashaallh.
As for Hadood laws they were imposed by a userper Zia only as a political stunt of his scheme of `Islamizaion`. These continued side by side the common law. The Hadood in Quranic law about adultry requires four witnesses to be produced who had seen the act performed pornographically and if the accuser is able to bring only one less he is to be charged of `Qazaf`, awarded 80 lashes and disqualfied for ever as a witness. But in this `Inshaallah, Mashaallah` culture common law (Tahzir)comes handy to change the track altogether when the Quran says those who do not judge by the laws of Allah are Fasiq, Fajir and what not.
So under the Quranic Hadood Dr. Shazia may herself be accused of adultry if she cannot produce four witnesses of the standard required.
#6 Posted by sajal on February 20, 2005 5:04:31 pm
Beena, that was a dose of reality as to what is happening with dr shazia,
I am really sorry for dr Shazia and I sincerely wish she gets justice.
I am angry at the current social climate of Pakistan and ashamed at how women are treated in our country.
I am also frustrated because I dont understand, what will it take for us as a nation to change the attitude towards women.
I believe the hudood ordinance should be abolished and new criminal laws imposed to protect women in our country.
How long do we have to suffer??????
I am really sorry for dr Shazia and I sincerely wish she gets justice.
I am angry at the current social climate of Pakistan and ashamed at how women are treated in our country.
I am also frustrated because I dont understand, what will it take for us as a nation to change the attitude towards women.
I believe the hudood ordinance should be abolished and new criminal laws imposed to protect women in our country.
How long do we have to suffer??????
#5 Posted by temporal on February 20, 2005 4:58:56 pm
jay thackeray:
google ``beena sarwar`` to find out what she has written in the past fifteen years or more before you make a public four legged animal of scorn out of yourself...again;)
just some neighbourly advice
warm regards
t
google ``beena sarwar`` to find out what she has written in the past fifteen years or more before you make a public four legged animal of scorn out of yourself...again;)
just some neighbourly advice
warm regards
t
#4 Posted by Zeena on February 20, 2005 4:30:30 pm
Beena Sarwar
After such a long time ,I am reading a really thought provoking and humanly sensitive article.Dr.Shazia is not the only one in that Islamic Republic of Pakistan.God,knows how many of our Muslim sisters in urban and rural areas are being rapped by Muslim men.In our Islamic Pak.society people hide all kind of garbage under their beds.They only
After such a long time ,I am reading a really thought provoking and humanly sensitive article.Dr.Shazia is not the only one in that Islamic Republic of Pakistan.God,knows how many of our Muslim sisters in urban and rural areas are being rapped by Muslim men.In our Islamic Pak.society people hide all kind of garbage under their beds.They only