The Ultimate Violation

How can someone who`s life has been altered go back living the same way. It takes a long time to heal and they need caring people around them.
doublec, We all have our own neuroses and scars, but that does not mean we need special treatment.This is the reason why so many of sexual abuse cases go unreported.

So Ana,

How can someone who`s life has been altered go back living the same way. It takes a long time to heal and they need caring people around them.

I am not feeling pity for this person... I`m just saying what i wish should happen. How can you say that she is not in a delicate situation?...... think of her mental situation and tell me if at the moment it is delicate or not.

Don`t get me wrong...... i wish her the best but when this story dies out and the two of us are discussing a different topic, the doc will still be living on, with the memory of what happened to her. There will be days when things will be tough for her and her family, when they would not know what to do...... hopefully the family does not give up on her and lets her deal with the situation her self........ she needs constant support.... maybe for a few months maybe for a few years......

Re: # 53

doublec:

i don`t want to keep discussing the condition of dr. shazia or put words in her mouth, or attribute feelings to her that are not hers. but it does seem that you and i are talking past each other. i would be the last person in the world to say that what she went through was NOT a delicate situation. i wouldn`t even say that. rape IS painful, the aftereffects, the shame, the degradation, the wondering if you did something to cause it, the disbelief of some as to your ``innocence``. that was not the point i was trying to make.

you referred to the doctor being treated as a delicate object. there is no doubt whatsoever that she needs caring and supportive people around her, and thankfully she does, and as i said we can only hope and pray that with their love and support she will go on with the rest of her life. she is NOT an object, she is a human being, who does need care, and who will need time to feel whole again. being sensitive to what she`s been through is one thing, but ``delicate objects`` are often set somewhere where they become unreachable. that, in my humble opinion, is a mistake. and i don`t agree necessarily with how rahul c. is putting it, but yes, to acknowledge and act on the fact that a loved one or someone we know has been raped is one thing. to continue feeling sorry for her situation in life, and to freeze her in the moment of being raped is not the best thing to do either. that sometimes leads to exploitation of a situation.

that`s where justice becomes so important. that`s where educating someone becomes so important, that`s where abolishing laws that favor the powerful and the man become important. you said you don`t care what happens to ``the dog``. perhaps you should. you should care about dogs who prescribe karo kari over upholding the honour of the women in their families. about the dogs who commit such vile acts. because for some, restorative justice has a lot to do with closure. for some it has everything to do with it.

you misunderstand me altogether when you say that i do not consider it to be a ``delicate`` situation. my objection to what you said was more in the tone that you used. and if we`re still in disagreement about that, then perhaps this is not the best arena to continue this discussion. she will not be the same person no. but with love, and faith, and yes, fear, will she go on? let us hope so.

38 Rahul/40 Ana,

I just have one question for the two of you: Do you personally know a rape victim? If yes then i find it hard for the two of you to understand my post. If you don`t know one then you don`t understand what i am saying.

Re: # 51

doublec,

the one word answer to your question: yes. and please look at what you`ve written again and tell me what it is that i don`t understand either way. my own personal experience, though perhaps not as devastating has not left me psychologically unscathed, but of course you couldn`t have known that in being so presumptious as to what i do and don`t understand.

take care.

Beena,

Nice article. It does prove something.

Marm, when idiotics like me are in power, this will always happen. Not only in Pakistan, but also in India. May be also in Timbuck..TOO. and ...then some.

When a is problem identified, accepted, one should find resolution. And work on it. Neither I or urs will do that..

In India we have laws. Well.. We don`t abide by them...In pakistan.. there are not many..

Well you could be Saminasha.. who does want to to have evolution and change...

OR be a believer in Karma.. e.g.

O saare jagake rakhawle... Neerbal Ko bal dene wale...
Balawano ko ... Daata..... Dataa... Day Day Gyan

Well you could replace Allah with Ishwar. Yogiraj with Usrtru.. Nothing will change. Nothing. Unless you want to and change it. Take control. Tell me and urstru... B. F. U.

Yours True...

Yogiraj

re:#46 by Charlie
I feel miserable when i hear such news. More so when such things are justified in the name of honor and the culprits go scotfree.
Pakistani society has yet to evolve a system to fight such injusticies. Pak is ruled by a dictator who makes a mockery of judicial system (Did he consult the judiciary before he usurped power?). Mullahs go unchallenged for fear of backlash. So, we have these tribal customs that have gone unchallenged to this day.
Such things happen in India too but media can make lives of wrong-doers miserable and judicial system can apply correctives. But the system is far from corrupt. Corrupt politicians still rule India (eg Bihar, TN). I am watching with interest the Kanchi Mutt case that is unfolding in Tamil Nadu. In all probability, the Kanchi Seer is being framed. Media is unable to do much. The CM of that state things she is born to rule and is being autocratic. But she now faces corrupton charges for which she has to go to Karnataka to face a trial. She tried to wriggle out of this by appealing to Supreme Court saying she will not get justice in Karnatak but that was turned down.
It is just that there has to be mechanisms to fight out injustices and these evolve as time goes by and if people are vested with powers to evolve such mechanisms. In a feudalistic society like Pakistan`s, such mechanisms evolve very slowly. It is left to some good men to fight it out.
Meanwhile, i heard that a 2 year old girl was raped in tribal area of Pak and was ordered by Karo Kari to be married to somebody when she grows up. What a shame?
Mullahs also have double standards to morality. Meera, the Pak actress, has caused a stir when she acted in a Bollywood movie. What is bothering the mullahs is NOT what she is doing but why she is doing in an enemycountry in front of the Infidels.
Sridhar

Charlie:

Thank you for sharing a realistic account. And that is the kind of ``bad`` that takes over and kicks out the ``good``. This is a very dismal and disconcerting picture, if it stays on the same course.

Why should the rape victim leave that environment? If anyone has to leave for anywhere then that should be the rapist. He should be brought to the streets and painted black, top down and bottom up. He should be made to pass through the streets of that city in that black paint so that people remember for the rest of their lives to stay away from such a despicable act. And wherever he dwells in the Islamic Republic of Pakistan, the natives should know that a rapist is in their vicinity. They should not let their mothers, daughters and sisters interact with that family. His wife should be forced to file a divorce suit and get rid of that evil ``revenge/entertainment`` seeking male. I have true sympathies with women who end up staying with such dirty and filthy men - this is provided he is married. If not then he should be blacklisted so that no one cares to dump their daughter on such a low level human being.

Last but not least, the jumaa` khutbaa conducted by the clergy should broadcast the local rapists and their names loud and clear to alert the fellow muslims of the existing evil in their society. This is the social jehad the clergy needs to conduct to protect and save the honor of its masses` well being. I understand that the clergy itself is not to be trusted 100% but still the ones with some conscience left should be tapped into. I am not sure how you can determine that. All these steps will take a lot of moral courage. Do we have any left in our society back home? I think we do have the awareness and some steps are taken after getting jootian from right and left (international agencies, to be precise) but no law has ever been passed to protect and defend the rights of a victim in rape cases. You cannot have only Asma Jehangir and Hina Jilani rising against the Legal System of Pakistan and demanding justice for the femal rape victims.

Being raped itself is very disturbing experience. And When I think of the reaction of our uneducated people, I start feeling even more uneasy.

My ancestoral town is located in central Punjab: much away from karo kari related interior Sindh. I remember a poor girl who was raped. When the news of her rape was spread, people started talking weird things about her. Connecting the rape with character of the lady, talking of dirtyness with rape, purity of a woman and the negatives which are done due to rape. Listning to mindset of the people was unbearable for me when I visited village for justa coupe of days.

Then, after few days, I came to know that girl was murdered by her brother.
Her brother was forgiven by the family of the girl: `` socalled islamically`` right, lawfully correct. Girl`s body was thrown in a canal.
Boy was praised for his bravery. Family retained its loss respect in the society.
The brother got a job at the stroing political personality of the town as the politician was impressed by his bravery.

That was just an example. I also know other examples where something happened, in the words of parents , girl fell ill strangely and died. family respect however is saved all the times.

Keeping those stories in mind, it is realy disturbing for me to realize that Dr Shazia case was so much politicized (and publicized).

Our people are not ready to listen to such things. They have very naive and immature concepts of purity, virginity and respect. How can the lady doctor survive in such a society with so much discussion done about it.

She should quit the society as soon as possible. Being raped itself creates psychological problems and facing people`s eyes makes it worse.

Captain Hammad is a nephew of the wife of a key Corps Commander posted north of Rawalpindi who is also related to General Musharraf’s military staff, a Major General.
What is the value of ``Bloody civilians`` in front of a ``high profile army officer``.

All documents are going to be fake? Poor Doctor is going to possess bad character.

Dr Shazia says she can`t sleep. then why General should sleep in presidentail palace. The palace he captured without reasons. this way, he took the responsibility of providing justice to all people of the country. Musharraf is a culprit. Every night, Dr Shazia is sleepless and he sleeps, he becomes worse culprit.

Then PPL officials, Police and Army men. how cheap. Every body is negatively involved in the case. Civil servants (PPL) are playing dirty games of changing statements. Police is dirty as always. talking of them make me feel stink. And Army: May lord destroy such an army who knows raping its people whom it is supoosed to protect. Who knows bombing its people in Wana and Baluchistan and who doesn`t learn from its sins in east Pakistan.

These pakistanis think, west is against them without reasons. fools. It is not possible in dirty, sinful, destined to hell west that in such a case, offenders escape the punishment. In land of the pure, it is a daily routine.

MMA are silent. Their islam goes to hell when there is a need to talk against powerful offenders. Q league are political prostitutes. And PPP, why will they talk. It is not important to get the power. While Mullahs are good at protecting their sisters being raped in Kashmir, What happens to them when their sisters are raped on their own side of the border.

People Talk of Karo Kari. And yes, he is the father in law of Shazia. Such father in laws should be karo karied.

I really appreciate Shazia`s husband that he is still with her and facing the difficulty with her. Seems that education brings positive changes in attitudes.

Realy, there is no solution let to make the system work. Where there is no justice, I mean speedy justice, there is no hope of survival of the society.

I am sorry. I am realy frustrated and I don`t know what I am typing makes any sense or no.

Re: # 45

``While Mullahs are good at protecting their sisters being raped in Kashmir,``.

How can you say that? The fact is that they publicise the rape of their sisters in Kashmir, call it a sacrifice and demand price for it. They even ran Quiz programs on the PTV, with one of the questions,``How many women have been raped in occupied Kashmir``. The answer, if I correctly remember, used to be `20,000`. When an army can rape 20,000 in Kashmir, and thousands perhaps in Bangladesh, why should the Mullah bother about one Shazia? In fact it is doubtful whether in Mullah`s shariah the rape is a crime at all.

Ana,
I understand your point and subscribe to it. My contention neither undermines the nature of the crime nor condones it. By stakes, I imply the various linkages and all the associated vested interests. Gravity of the offence nothwithstanding, an individual is being made a pawn.

Cheerios

arjun # 42:

#28 and # 29

what does this prove;)

No law, no protection in Pakistan: Dr Shazia

* Says PPL officials drugged her to cover up the case
* Says issue being politicised

KARACHI: Dr Shazia, the Sui rape victim, said on Monday there was neither law nor protection in Pakistan.

In an interview with The Guardian newspaper of the UK, Dr Shazia said, “We are very scared. In Pakistan, there is no law, no protection, nothing. Who can we trust? Nobody.” Visitors are not welcome at her house in Karachi, not even with an invitation. A police team is posted at the gate and Rangers prowl the grounds inside.

“You need the permission from the bosses at the top,” says a moustached officer firmly. “The very top.” She has good reason to worry. Until six weeks ago, the 31-year-old was a company doctor at the Sui gas plant, at the farthest reaches of Balochistan. On January 3, she was raped in her bed.

Speaking publicly for the first time since the rape, Dr Shazia told the British newspaper that officials from Pakistan Petroleum Limited (PPL), which runs the plant, at first drugged her to cover up the case.

“Before the police came to take a statement, the (company’s) chief medical officer said: ‘Don’t give them any information.’ Then they injected me with a tranquilliser that made me drowsy,” she said.

At the time, PPL officials said Dr Shazia was unable to file a statement because she was unconscious. Despite her injuries, Dr Shazia was offered no medical treatment by PPL and she had no contact with her family for two days. Then the company flew her to Karachi and checked her into a private psychiatric hospital.

Three PPL doctors have since been arrested on charges of obstructing justice. But despite weeks of police investigation, Dr Shazia’s rapist remains at large.

She said she did not know his identity. “He tied my hands with a telephone wire and blindfolded me with a dupatta [scarf]. But I could feel that he had a moustache and curly hair. And I know his voice.”

Early this week, President Musharraf’s spokesman said an army captain was “under investigation” but had not been arrested. Meanwhile, Balochistan police have re-interviewed Dr Shazia – this time insinuating she was engaged in prostitution, The Guardian report says.

“They asked me where I got the Rs 25,000 that was stolen and when I wore my jewellery. And they said that a cleaner had found used condoms in my room,” she said.

Since then police have announced that DNA tests on the main suspect did not match that found at the scene, heightening fears of a cover-up. Weeks ago, the grandfather of Dr Shazia’s husband said the rape had rendered her kari – a disgrace to family honour – and so she must be divorced, and preferably killed. Such “honour killings” remain common in rural Pakistan.

But her husband, a pipeline engineer, says he is standing by his wife. His grandfather, he said, “is just a bad man, and this has made my wife even more scared. She can’t sleep at night, so I sit by her bed to take care of her”.

For human rights campaigners, the kari rubs salt in the wound of a case combining politics, violence and regressive traditions.

“In this country a woman has no status,” said Shershah Syed, of the Pakistan Medical Association (PMA). “She is an object, like a cow or a bucket.” Having lost their jobs and fearing for their lives, the couple want to leave Pakistan.

“They are politicising this issue, the whole country, everyone,” Dr Shazia said through tears before hanging up. “How can I face anyone any more? We have to get out.”

Only a handful of family visitors may enter the house where Dr Shazia and her husband are living. A senior police officer said, “You have to understand that in this matter we answer to the president.” sana

for those chowkies who do not know how mr jay thackeray operates it is time to revisit him in his own words

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Date Posted: Jan-28-100 -2:49:52 PST Reply #: 167 jay

Temporal,

Take it easy, I didn’t /piss/ in your coke.

There is a game called intellectual origami, I take the clean pure paper of Pakistan, fold it around to make it into a jihadic monster and my good Pakistani friends are busy for a few days, removing the folds, ironing it out.

Take it easy I didn’t….

Regards

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jay had a field day in the days of old chowk when an article would stay on main page for weeks...and by his own admission now that the articles come and go he feels cheated that poor pakistanis do not fight over his pearls (dropping really;)) as much

doublec:

in addition to the information that ijaz has given you, there is also a report in the pakistan christian post of a 55-year old woman, Hanifan bibi who was ``abducted, stripped, and tortured. .`` in front of her husband and sons and it goes so far as to show the marks on Hanifan bibi`s body.

ijaz, i`m not sure what you mean by ``but in this case, the stakes are high. .`` not that i don`t understand english, but shouldn`t the stakes be high every time a woman is raped? or is it because of the army involvement that you say this. it is a high-profile case yes, but i should think that we should get to the root of the matter with every rape. the sad fact is that with poor women, cases of rape are largely ignored.

doublec: i think i understand what you`re trying to say. . . but it does sound rather condescending even if that isn`t how you intended it. dr. shazia has been through a horrible, painful life-altering ordeal, but suggesting that she be treated like a delicate object comes across as rather patronizing, no? rape victims and their families ``deal`` with the painful reality of what has happened in various ways, and rather than suggesting how she should be treated, and what should be done for her, we can only hope, and wish and pray that she heals, along with her family, and that justice is served. . .