The Ultimate Violation

Re: # 20

``I have never seen article about most interesting mathematician from India Mr Ram Nu Jan anywhere in india on his birthday or memoral day( was he dalit or what? I do not know). ``

He wasn`t a Dalit. Here is a link http://www.imsc.ernet.in/~rao/ramanujan

I salute this woman. She had the courage to speak out and that was good. I hope she gets justice.

Her husband would need all the courage he can muster if he wants to see his wife get better. She will never be the same person again and things will change. (Things should never be the same after such gross violation). Depression will set in and it will be difficult to get out.

The Dr. will be broken from within. Only a caring family group, will be able to pull the Dr. out of this deep depression she will find herself, in the coming months. I hope the husband has the sense to get professional help for his wife......because trust me these will be trying times for their family. Not only should he seek professional help for his wife but even himself and their children (if they have any).

The Dr. needs to be treated like a delicate object (I use the term object for lack of words) because a wrong move can trigger her button and will end in her taking her life.

Am i angry at what happened to her..... you bet i am..... do i care if the dog who did it gets caught - no......

All i care for now is for someone to realize the up hill battle they have on their hands to make sure that the Dr. feels better again. This can take years to heal but a lot of care, support and love is required. May God help her.


Ijaz Gul,

You wrote about two incidents with Christian girls. Where (on the web) can i find such information?

Thanks

I googled her story, didn`t come across the reason for the attack. Her grandfather in law wanted her killed as a Kari. But, her husband is standing by her.

Re: # 32

Why extoll this attachment to the mother-land in a politically oriented fasion. I love my `watan`, the country of my birth `Janam bhoomi` as I love and respect my father and my mother by whatever name it is called. I cosider it sometimes my weakness as I felt homesick even in a city like London and came back to my `SohnrhaN des Punjab`.

Doublec,
Here are some links.

http://www.balaams-ass.com/alhaj/miseries.htm

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In March 2000, 12 men broke into the Lourdes Convent and attacked Sister Christine, a 78-year old nun; she died in a nearby hospital a few days later. According to the Christian Liberation Front (CLF), a nongovernmental organization (NGO), the perpetrators of the attack were Muslims who previously had accused Sister Christine of proselytizing. Police officials did not arrest anyone in connection with this attack. In May 2000, five masked men stopped a factory bus of female factory employees in Ferozewala and raped six to eight Christian girls who were passengers; the assailants reportedly spared the two Muslim passengers on the bus. Initially, police officials urged the girls to report that were robbed, not raped; however, when the CLF complained to government officials, the officials immediately registered the cases as rape cases, arrested two suspects, and promised to investigate police behavior. Three of the suspects were charged under the Hudood Ordinances and are scheduled to stand trial in September 2000.

http://www.thepersecution.org/ussd/us00irf.html

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PERSECUTION WATCH: Pakistan
Eight Christian women gang-raped by a group of Muslims have expressed their horror at the end of a trial that saw the men they had accused walk free. Three men were acquitted and three others who were found guilty will be free soon because the time they have spent in custody since the May 2000 assaults meets the two-year sentences they received. The victims, aged 16 to 35, wept when the verdicts were read, said International Christian Concern (ICC). `We were all shocked at the outcome of this controversial case and the token decision of the judge that clearly favored the rapists, while giving no concern for the victims,` said a lawyer for one of the women. `We think this is the height of anti-Christian bias.` The men had been accused of raping the women as they returned to their homes after finishing work at a clothing factory, ICC said. The women told how they were raped after their attackers ordered Muslim women passengers to stay in the vehicle. Despite statements from a few witnesses -- including police -- that favored the women, the court sided with the defendants due to influence and pressure from Muslim supporters, ICC said. During the hearings in the last two years, threats were frequently made against the women and their families. They were `very depressed, and feel unsafe and insecure,` ICC said. `They fear that the perpetrators may seek revenge and make good on threats.`

http://www.vineyardfederalway.org/pages/missions/persecution/html/Pakistan.htm

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I Hope this is enough

Cheerios

doublec #34
She will never be the same person again and things will change. (Things should never be the same after such gross violation).
What is the basis of such condescending pity?No sir, she will live and she will be fine, if society will do away with such grand ideas of ``gross violation`` etc. The rape will be repeated again and again all her life,by everybody who pities her like that.In a society with such ideas,it is better that she moves somewhere else.

Re: # 20

Hi Ahmad midani,

I am disappointed, how a simple proding has brought out the real pakistani in you. If I remeber correctly, Ramanujam died young, may be around 32, he did not get any nobel prize. The case of dalits is well known, and recognised in the constutution, and there are reserved jobs and educational places for them. These were not there in the british india.
Take the case of pakistan. Ahmadias had no legislated disadvantages, after the creation of pakistan, every applicant to a passport has to declare that the riligious guro of ahmadias is a imposter. It is rather pathetic that you chose to compare ramanujam to abdul salam, and compare dalits to ahmadias.

Take it from me ahmad madani, what I am talking about is not individual prejudices, I am talking about is procedures and regulations, approved and up held by the pak legal system and the supreme sharia court. Do something ahmad, tell me why no one dares to celebrate abdus salam acheivement. The question is are you ready. Will you write a post stating that it is to honour abdus salam, and let me asuure you, you will stoned to death.

doublec:

in addition to the information that ijaz has given you, there is also a report in the pakistan christian post of a 55-year old woman, Hanifan bibi who was ``abducted, stripped, and tortured. .`` in front of her husband and sons and it goes so far as to show the marks on Hanifan bibi`s body.

ijaz, i`m not sure what you mean by ``but in this case, the stakes are high. .`` not that i don`t understand english, but shouldn`t the stakes be high every time a woman is raped? or is it because of the army involvement that you say this. it is a high-profile case yes, but i should think that we should get to the root of the matter with every rape. the sad fact is that with poor women, cases of rape are largely ignored.

doublec: i think i understand what you`re trying to say. . . but it does sound rather condescending even if that isn`t how you intended it. dr. shazia has been through a horrible, painful life-altering ordeal, but suggesting that she be treated like a delicate object comes across as rather patronizing, no? rape victims and their families ``deal`` with the painful reality of what has happened in various ways, and rather than suggesting how she should be treated, and what should be done for her, we can only hope, and wish and pray that she heals, along with her family, and that justice is served. . .

for those chowkies who do not know how mr jay thackeray operates it is time to revisit him in his own words

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Date Posted: Jan-28-100 -2:49:52 PST Reply #: 167 jay

Temporal,

Take it easy, I didn’t /piss/ in your coke.

There is a game called intellectual origami, I take the clean pure paper of Pakistan, fold it around to make it into a jihadic monster and my good Pakistani friends are busy for a few days, removing the folds, ironing it out.

Take it easy I didn’t….

Regards

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jay had a field day in the days of old chowk when an article would stay on main page for weeks...and by his own admission now that the articles come and go he feels cheated that poor pakistanis do not fight over his pearls (dropping really;)) as much

No law, no protection in Pakistan: Dr Shazia

* Says PPL officials drugged her to cover up the case
* Says issue being politicised

KARACHI: Dr Shazia, the Sui rape victim, said on Monday there was neither law nor protection in Pakistan.

In an interview with The Guardian newspaper of the UK, Dr Shazia said, “We are very scared. In Pakistan, there is no law, no protection, nothing. Who can we trust? Nobody.” Visitors are not welcome at her house in Karachi, not even with an invitation. A police team is posted at the gate and Rangers prowl the grounds inside.

“You need the permission from the bosses at the top,” says a moustached officer firmly. “The very top.” She has good reason to worry. Until six weeks ago, the 31-year-old was a company doctor at the Sui gas plant, at the farthest reaches of Balochistan. On January 3, she was raped in her bed.

Speaking publicly for the first time since the rape, Dr Shazia told the British newspaper that officials from Pakistan Petroleum Limited (PPL), which runs the plant, at first drugged her to cover up the case.

“Before the police came to take a statement, the (company’s) chief medical officer said: ‘Don’t give them any information.’ Then they injected me with a tranquilliser that made me drowsy,” she said.

At the time, PPL officials said Dr Shazia was unable to file a statement because she was unconscious. Despite her injuries, Dr Shazia was offered no medical treatment by PPL and she had no contact with her family for two days. Then the company flew her to Karachi and checked her into a private psychiatric hospital.

Three PPL doctors have since been arrested on charges of obstructing justice. But despite weeks of police investigation, Dr Shazia’s rapist remains at large.

She said she did not know his identity. “He tied my hands with a telephone wire and blindfolded me with a dupatta [scarf]. But I could feel that he had a moustache and curly hair. And I know his voice.”

Early this week, President Musharraf’s spokesman said an army captain was “under investigation” but had not been arrested. Meanwhile, Balochistan police have re-interviewed Dr Shazia – this time insinuating she was engaged in prostitution, The Guardian report says.

“They asked me where I got the Rs 25,000 that was stolen and when I wore my jewellery. And they said that a cleaner had found used condoms in my room,” she said.

Since then police have announced that DNA tests on the main suspect did not match that found at the scene, heightening fears of a cover-up. Weeks ago, the grandfather of Dr Shazia’s husband said the rape had rendered her kari – a disgrace to family honour – and so she must be divorced, and preferably killed. Such “honour killings” remain common in rural Pakistan.

But her husband, a pipeline engineer, says he is standing by his wife. His grandfather, he said, “is just a bad man, and this has made my wife even more scared. She can’t sleep at night, so I sit by her bed to take care of her”.

For human rights campaigners, the kari rubs salt in the wound of a case combining politics, violence and regressive traditions.

“In this country a woman has no status,” said Shershah Syed, of the Pakistan Medical Association (PMA). “She is an object, like a cow or a bucket.” Having lost their jobs and fearing for their lives, the couple want to leave Pakistan.

“They are politicising this issue, the whole country, everyone,” Dr Shazia said through tears before hanging up. “How can I face anyone any more? We have to get out.”

Only a handful of family visitors may enter the house where Dr Shazia and her husband are living. A senior police officer said, “You have to understand that in this matter we answer to the president.” sana

arjun # 42:

#28 and # 29

what does this prove;)

Ana,
I understand your point and subscribe to it. My contention neither undermines the nature of the crime nor condones it. By stakes, I imply the various linkages and all the associated vested interests. Gravity of the offence nothwithstanding, an individual is being made a pawn.

Cheerios

Captain Hammad is a nephew of the wife of a key Corps Commander posted north of Rawalpindi who is also related to General Musharraf’s military staff, a Major General.
What is the value of ``Bloody civilians`` in front of a ``high profile army officer``.

All documents are going to be fake? Poor Doctor is going to possess bad character.

Dr Shazia says she can`t sleep. then why General should sleep in presidentail palace. The palace he captured without reasons. this way, he took the responsibility of providing justice to all people of the country. Musharraf is a culprit. Every night, Dr Shazia is sleepless and he sleeps, he becomes worse culprit.

Then PPL officials, Police and Army men. how cheap. Every body is negatively involved in the case. Civil servants (PPL) are playing dirty games of changing statements. Police is dirty as always. talking of them make me feel stink. And Army: May lord destroy such an army who knows raping its people whom it is supoosed to protect. Who knows bombing its people in Wana and Baluchistan and who doesn`t learn from its sins in east Pakistan.

These pakistanis think, west is against them without reasons. fools. It is not possible in dirty, sinful, destined to hell west that in such a case, offenders escape the punishment. In land of the pure, it is a daily routine.

MMA are silent. Their islam goes to hell when there is a need to talk against powerful offenders. Q league are political prostitutes. And PPP, why will they talk. It is not important to get the power. While Mullahs are good at protecting their sisters being raped in Kashmir, What happens to them when their sisters are raped on their own side of the border.

People Talk of Karo Kari. And yes, he is the father in law of Shazia. Such father in laws should be karo karied.

I really appreciate Shazia`s husband that he is still with her and facing the difficulty with her. Seems that education brings positive changes in attitudes.

Realy, there is no solution let to make the system work. Where there is no justice, I mean speedy justice, there is no hope of survival of the society.

I am sorry. I am realy frustrated and I don`t know what I am typing makes any sense or no.

Being raped itself is very disturbing experience. And When I think of the reaction of our uneducated people, I start feeling even more uneasy.

My ancestoral town is located in central Punjab: much away from karo kari related interior Sindh. I remember a poor girl who was raped. When the news of her rape was spread, people started talking weird things about her. Connecting the rape with character of the lady, talking of dirtyness with rape, purity of a woman and the negatives which are done due to rape. Listning to mindset of the people was unbearable for me when I visited village for justa coupe of days.

Then, after few days, I came to know that girl was murdered by her brother.
Her brother was forgiven by the family of the girl: `` socalled islamically`` right, lawfully correct. Girl`s body was thrown in a canal.
Boy was praised for his bravery. Family retained its loss respect in the society.
The brother got a job at the stroing political personality of the town as the politician was impressed by his bravery.

That was just an example. I also know other examples where something happened, in the words of parents , girl fell ill strangely and died. family respect however is saved all the times.

Keeping those stories in mind, it is realy disturbing for me to realize that Dr Shazia case was so much politicized (and publicized).

Our people are not ready to listen to such things. They have very naive and immature concepts of purity, virginity and respect. How can the lady doctor survive in such a society with so much discussion done about it.

She should quit the society as soon as possible. Being raped itself creates psychological problems and facing people`s eyes makes it worse.

Re: # 45

``While Mullahs are good at protecting their sisters being raped in Kashmir,``.

How can you say that? The fact is that they publicise the rape of their sisters in Kashmir, call it a sacrifice and demand price for it. They even ran Quiz programs on the PTV, with one of the questions,``How many women have been raped in occupied Kashmir``. The answer, if I correctly remember, used to be `20,000`. When an army can rape 20,000 in Kashmir, and thousands perhaps in Bangladesh, why should the Mullah bother about one Shazia? In fact it is doubtful whether in Mullah`s shariah the rape is a crime at all.

Charlie:

Thank you for sharing a realistic account. And that is the kind of ``bad`` that takes over and kicks out the ``good``. This is a very dismal and disconcerting picture, if it stays on the same course.

Why should the rape victim leave that environment? If anyone has to leave for anywhere then that should be the rapist. He should be brought to the streets and painted black, top down and bottom up. He should be made to pass through the streets of that city in that black paint so that people remember for the rest of their lives to stay away from such a despicable act. And wherever he dwells in the Islamic Republic of Pakistan, the natives should know that a rapist is in their vicinity. They should not let their mothers, daughters and sisters interact with that family. His wife should be forced to file a divorce suit and get rid of that evil ``revenge/entertainment`` seeking male. I have true sympathies with women who end up staying with such dirty and filthy men - this is provided he is married. If not then he should be blacklisted so that no one cares to dump their daughter on such a low level human being.

Last but not least, the jumaa` khutbaa conducted by the clergy should broadcast the local rapists and their names loud and clear to alert the fellow muslims of the existing evil in their society. This is the social jehad the clergy needs to conduct to protect and save the honor of its masses` well being. I understand that the clergy itself is not to be trusted 100% but still the ones with some conscience left should be tapped into. I am not sure how you can determine that. All these steps will take a lot of moral courage. Do we have any left in our society back home? I think we do have the awareness and some steps are taken after getting jootian from right and left (international agencies, to be precise) but no law has ever been passed to protect and defend the rights of a victim in rape cases. You cannot have only Asma Jehangir and Hina Jilani rising against the Legal System of Pakistan and demanding justice for the femal rape victims.