Am I Insane?

Re: # 39

One could have ignored this immature one. I would have responded with much more colorful langiage, except here there is a young girl also listening ...why do I care? ... may be because I do not have a daughter.

One will find on AM/FM dial in any metro in US and probably now in India as well, 100s of these divorce lawyers and councilors screaming dumping thier significant others and also dumping the content of their purse on their table. Deeper introspection will reveal that one needs to dump the thought tumor which leads to pain and disease in our relationship to the world. What we are seeking is not outside. Outside is not random things that happen to us, it is reflection of what we create inside. This inside creation happens for few on soccer field, others on hatha-yoga mat and few others in beautiful lisp code.

Go and read 26 again.

For others who think this should have been addressed to Dear Abby:

A lttle peek into childhood of Saddam, Stalin, Bin-Ladden, Bush and even your esteemed Chiknah or Indira Gandhi and you will see abuse and parental disfunctional marriage (man-woman relationship) and in many cases their own. To solve world`s problems created by these minds loving man-woman relationship and healthy family needs to be promoted. A paid consultant will produce 3000 pages and make $300K in two weeks but will not address root cause of disfunctional marriage and family behind every Columbine School tragedy.

It`s a tragedy that children born and raised in one country are made to feel that they really belong to another.

Such double-dipping can work extremely well for a man (boy - for, most such men will never mature on a normal time-line)

For a woman it cannot work, unless she also possesses a biological fetish for sexual slavery.

Dear Mother of Woman,

......... now that malik and echo and romair are here, this board will become a lot more interesting ............ i bet my bippy that pretty soon god, his prophet and his wives and concubines will soon be dragged into this fray ........... please be prepared to get an earful on aisha, khadeeja, miriam, zainab, hafsa and the rest of the harem ..........

.......... my bet, as usual, is on romair to win this battle ..............

... carry on......

The story is real or not it is has many loop holes...

If I am not wrong than `watta satta` could be a staunch marriage relationship when double marriages take place at same time. Whereas writer first claims herself victim of ``watta satta`` then says that she got married after proposal laid by brother of Bhabi much after her brother`s marriage.

So that time her parents must have observed the family as if they are compatible even not for their daughter but in accordance to general observation of extended family life style.

I will not dish out any advice to Emma because of this acute sense that this board is looking like a day time TV talk show where Jerry Springer`s audience is yelling and screaming and giving their advice to a bimbo sitting on the stage about which way she should make her decision.

But I will pick on one point ZahraJ brought up - the mistaken belief in superior bloodline or piety of Syeds to the point that they would not want their children to marry non-Syeds.

This is one of the most wretched and disgusting caste system in practice today. And to see the western educated young men and women succumbing to the same is truly baffeling. I have heard of the cases where the girls never got married because their parents could not find them a suitable syed.

Here is what I have to say to Syeds: Your alleged lineage not only goes all the way to Prophet (saw) but to Abu Jahal as well, who belonged to the tribe of Quraish too.

Emma:


You are not only a brilliant lawyer ( contrary to the self-effacing intro) , you are a brilliant `writer` as well.

Let me `explain`:
You laid the trap so nicely and all the westernised scum & flotsam made a beeline to it.

You must be laughing silly.

``Am I insane?`` Emma Nisa ? ``Umm-i Nisa``? Mother of Women.
Just thinking. Just thinking and enjoying the sight of flies stuck in the honey.

It seems a lot of Ba Ba Blacksheep are not that net-savvy.

In addition to my previous note, I would also say a few more things before I am out of here:

- Next time, do not ever promote your degree since it makes you look not only dumb but also silly. If you had that much respect and value for that degree then you would not have jumped on the first proposal of a ``successful businessman`` with dubious character. It is apparent that you had least respect for your degree. I had recently posted an article in my ilog where an average but well educated Pakistani woman scientist/researcher had included a clause in her marital contract that she intended to continue her work after marriage. This woman had not only dignity but also self-respect. Sorry, your article does not reveal any self-respect. Keeping that in mind, isn`t it unfair on your behalf to expect that from your husband because you keep his bed warm (one of the major reasons)?

- Everyone has his or her own life style. I agree that it can be very difficult if your in-laws are from different economic strata. Based on your story, it seems that you are living in a joint family. If not, then why would you care if your in-laws wear pants on the top and vice versa? Do not visit them frequently. Keep reasonable distance from them. If they have issues in accepting you then completely cut off.

- Using education or to put it crudely, a degree, in these times may be a temporary refuge. You need to conduct some introspection on who you are and where you want to be. You are definitely not in love with this man because of who he is. Why lie to yourself?
Had you been in love with this man then you would have had something decent to say on those lines. Apparently, you were in love with his status and his looks. Sorry, you wasted your education.

- Lastly, Syeds are no exception in any regard. Thanks for bursting the bubble of many Syeds who consider themselves a superior breed. There can be debauch men in both Syeds and non-Syeds. So you did not gain any sawab by marrying a debauch Syed. Probably, Muslims should start raising awareness on the presumed piety of the Syeds. The local mosques should be training muslims to watch out for these flase impressions!

With due respect, there is nothing in your article that makes me think that you are educated in the true sense. Yes, you have a degree like 1000s and probably 10,000s of women. What`s the big deal?

This was a harsh post. Sometimes, one has to conduct introspection after getting a serious jolt. If you have been taking life pretty easy then certain things may never stir up critical thinking. Probably, it`s time to take the plunge.

By the way, both River Dance and Chitty Chitty Bang Bang will be out this week or so. I hope you enjoy them and have a fresh mind to resolve your issues.

Best Wishes for a bright future.

emma:

my two bits

it is your body and it is your life...get some good professional help or counselling

lve

t

a few points here:

i felt this at the very beginning and i will say this now. i am not certain that this should have been brought to the front page. there was another article not too long ago where someone wrote about her marriage. people who do expose their personal lives, especially intimate or lack of intimate relations are going to receive a gamut of responses. . . and as the writer of this article will have found by now, they are not positive ones.

if the writer just wanted to have a hundred listening ears or so, again, at chowk, we aren`t just going to listen. this is an interact board, there will be plenty of interaction here. and again, writers who don`t write about their personal lives end up having their personal lives thrashed and trashed at this site.

the question was ``am i going insane?`` the answer was not necessarily ``dump the MC!`` (yes, i realize no one actually called him that). but again, that was the response that married people and single people gave, because they picked up on certain phrases more than others. emma`s words are good enough for them. i don`t believe i advocated either leaving or staying because quite simply it isn`t my place to do so. drawing from what the writer has said, i asked questions that would require plenty of thought before making such a serious decision. we are not experts here, and what we know here is superficial at best.

and another point, ``intelligent`` and ``successful`` people don`t always have all the answers and they do have emotions which wreak havoc with them. the writers, doctors, artists who have committed suicide, or remain clinically or manic depressed. . .just because emma is a lawyer who should know something about logical and analytical mind processes doesn`t mean that she cannot be affected by her emotions. i DO believe that the man asked her to marry him. and she said yes for various reasons. he asked for the commitment, he should shoulder the work and responsibility that comes with it, as should emma. and contrary to romarian thinking, problems such as the differences between families are not that easy to work through. i`ve seen that myself. but is that the reason that he wants her to leave him? we don`t really know why HE wants her to leave him. and that has been the weakest point in this article. that we are to infer. this obviously is not a balanced view, and the responses have been less than balanced themselves. and we are not talking about national politics and policies here. we`re talking about sexual politics, and intimate relations between two people.

is this real or is this fiction? is this live or is it memorex? the person who wrote the article knows this a helluva lot more than we do. it was and it was not. . . and if anything has made me think or wonder about this, it`s how the subject of marriage has been treated here and elsewhere on chowk. is this worth the exposition?

ana #29: Marriage is not something one should just jump in and out of, at a whim. It is serious business. At least for me. And it does take work. A lot of work. Something I was completely unaware of before I got married. One has to actually be married to gain that experience. It is a bit difficult to gain it second hand. One cannot learn how to swim, by just watching swimmers. One has to jump into the pool, one`s self................

Based on this, I think one should be very very careful before advising someone to just, ``dump the guy or girl.`` As a bachelor, I used to say the same thing, since my image of marraige was permanent bliss and happiness. That is easier said than done. And considering the case described here, a divorce could have reprucussions far beyond just the individual herself. Too many, ``gung-ho`` people are quick to jump to this conclusion. And end up messing up the situation even more.

If there is physical abuse involved, one should leave immediately. If there are physical affairs involved, one should consider leaving, and if one cannot forgive the person, then one should leave. However, other than that, one really has to think about it. ``There is no love,`` ``He doesn`t come home enough,`` ``His parents are rags to riches,`` etc. etc. are things that can be worked through.

And, in this case, she is educated, she has parents who are supporting her, she is in the USA, etc. etc. i.e. she has a certain amount of security, hence they guy cannot just destroy her, outright...............if she is confused, despite being relatively secure personally, then that means there is a chance to work it out..........

The writer is, herself, saying,``Perhaps I`m weak and confused, but I still love him.`` This obviously indicates a confused state of mind. Someone under a lot of pressure. Who is not sure what to do. In such a state of mind, to just say to the person, ``Dump the guy,`` which could set of a chain reaction, is not correct advice.

I think they should keep trying to work on it. And if she does dump him, then as I said, ``That is also a road you can try. However, judging by how quickly you made your initial decision to get married, you should be very careful in taking such a step............And be 100% sure that you want to take it............``

One should be extremely cautious and very very careful in telling someoone to leave a marriage. Especially on a website, where one doesn`t have all the facts, and the other person is in a confused state of mind....................

dear emma,

..........look at all the good people on chowk who are giving you all kinds of advice ......... their responses are a lot more entertaining than your ``dear abby`` letter and gives some insight into the fruits and nuts who inhabit the chowk ............ god knows, i have often wondered about my own sanity - no normal person gets up on saturday morning to argue with cyber ghosts ............

........ personally, i think you should listen to zahraj - the woman seems to have a good head on her shoulders .........

First thing,as a psychiatrist I can tell you that you are not insane(although this term is not used in Psychiatry)
This is the story of many Pakistani/Indian girls born and brought up in western/europian countries.
Real problem is the clash of cultures/values-children are becoming scape-goats of parents` wish to cling to their ``original`` cultural/religeous values and reaping the fruits of western materialism at the same time.
Forget about the ``satta-watta``thing and treat marriage as marriage which is a contract betwen two consenting adults.
Marital counselling or any other professional help to keep the marriage alive will only work if your husband is also willing.
If you have to take decision on your own,tell your brother and parents that it has nothing to do with your Bhabi and that you won`t go back to them and can look after yourself.
If you see no hope of reviving it dont wait for too long and start afresh.

Hi Emma, you sound so sad. You must be so angry, to be sharing your situation with strangers on chowk. I think you do know what you want to do, but I just want to add that people do not just change unless they have psychotherapy or a religious revelation of some sort. Neither seems to be likely, so make your decision, because life is passing you by.

It is sad that your and his parents are not being helpul to you are your marriage. I suggest you take professional help.
- Marriage/Couples counsellor(preferrably a SAsian/Paksistani) will systematically go through and analyze your situation and tell you if you can still work out your marriage.
- Contact a SAsian community organization, they will give you support, lead you on proper direction and most importantly tell you what your options are in your current situation. This link has info about SAsian orgs across US http://www.apnaghar.org/dv/sasian.shtml.
- You have got only this life to live, nobody got any postcards from heaven or hell, so think, meditate, find out what you want to do with your life, what you want from a marriage, and if your current marriage is right for you and if can still make this marriage work.
- Divorce is not end of the world, infact it could be a start of a responsible and mature new life. It should be easy for you to get a job in US considering that you grewup in US and have a law degree, on top of it you are young and have no kids!. I hope you are legally married under US civil law(not just islamic law) then it will cost him dearly to get a divorce in US, make him pay through his nose.
- Don`t be desperate, regain some sanity and selfesteem. Think for your self. Family and community is of no consequence and use if it could not help you in time of your crisis. Spend time with your friends, socialize...

The following comes to you ex gratia courtesy of DOCTOR BeeJay. (If it tastes more bitter compared to the normal dosages that I administer, sorry about that, but most EFFECTIVE medicines unfortunately are that way.)

Prescription:

1) Get this through your head very clearly - if you lived in USA and were brought up and educated under our educational system, you ARE an American inside (no matter what passport you carry or whether you cover your head or not) and you will always value your individual freedoms, no matter what baggage (emotional, cultural, whatever) the people around have been saddling you up with.

2) Dump the dork. Don’t even think about it for one minute!

3) Dump everybody else that advises you otherwise. (I am VERY serious.)

4) Make something of your life on your own. (Yes, you can do it!)

5) Become an example so others can develop some courage by watching your successful recovery from this condition, which should NEVER have been allowed to progress to this stage.

Diagnosis:

1) You are not insane; just stuck in an insane asylum.

2) The bozos around you need to come in for an evaluation right away (but are highly unlikely to do so).

---

Notes:

Diagnosis no.2 also applies to #15 “HP”, #23 “Romair”, and #26 “Baal”

#11 “Freethinker”: You were making sense until the last line. Shame on you – you KNOW two wrongs don’t make a right!

Dear Emma:

<< Belonging to an educated family unlike my in-laws (just rags to riches) I have a sophisticated way of doing things. It may seem normal to many of you but having three course meals with starters is not a trend with my in laws! They labelled me too modern and outgoing. New York maybe in America but for everyone but my in laws, they think it is in Pind Dhadan Khan. >>

Is it possible that this attitude of yours is one of the many reasons rupturing your marriage?? Three course meals with starters as a daily domestic routine really don’t seem normal to me. I can guarantee that it doesn’t seem normal to the overwhelming majority of the Pakistanis.
Three course meals with starters, two, if not three times a day, is not only gluttonous, it will surely make one weigh over 100 kgs in 6 months time. I hope [and assume] you are not obese.

Don’t you think that comments like these would repel most regardless of the gender of the addressee?

<< When I asked my brother what would happen if I decide to leave Jawad and how my decision would affect his marriage, he replied, “I love my wife and two daughters but I also love you, if you come back. She goes back!``>>

Your family supposed to be sophisticated!? The mindset of your brother vividly shows the level of sophistication in your family.

<< Yes I made the mistake of getting married in a “Watta Satta”. >>

Romair has already explained this stupid concept of Watta Satta. Your case cannot be sorted under this caption.

Finally, this is your version of the story. Would you like to add anything, I repeat any single thing that even you might have done wrong?

Are you Insane? The details available are not enough to have a decision.
Confused: Probably, if you have to make an opinion out of this write-up.
Snobbish: Sure. I can bet about it.

Take care