Am I Insane?

Dear Emz:

I earlier put my response (#39). If its format (as a “prescribed” treatment) made you upset in any way, I am sorry about that. But I very much meant the message therein (and I was NOT trivializing your problems).

I will keep this message simple:

(1) Before you decide to forgive and forget, read this letter (especially the last two paragraphs).

(2) Buy from a book store (or check out from a library) Dr. Laura’s book ``Ten Stupid Things Women Do to Mess Up Their Lives``, and read Chapter 10 right away (rest of the book as time permits).

(3) Then, think through all aspects of your problem from scratch and see what solution you come up with on your own.

I would also advice that you pay attention to what Dr. Lokraj said (#42 and #113). He may be a REAL doctor.

I wish you all the best. The road ahead may not be easy, but may be the ONLY way.

BeeJay

Emma Nisa, you are insane. Forget life, fertility will leave you behind. What will you do then? Dump him and find a new sperm donor. Reading in between lines I feel that you are making this like a jilted love except there never was any love. You did not know him and he probably played his moves cleverly. He knows that you will not leave him because then brother will lose wife (in whatever minor but important way if not literally). Do your job only if it helps you ensnare your next husband. Your all decisions should be focussed on leaving this loser and finding next husband.

Zahra #127
What I want to suggest is that both sides had equal opportunity to assess (and interact with) each other and are almost equally responsible for this mess.

I would have sympathy with Emma as she appears to have been young when she got married (straight out of law school), consulted her mother, and even then got into this mess. Indian (and I believe other desi) girls do tend to depend on advice from their family.

My advice would still be for her to take divorce as a last option (after seeking mediation, counseling etc). Unfortunately remarriage is not an easy task in our society (unless she is adventurous enough to explore getting married to a gora! which I would strongly recommend, some of us desi males can be stupid idiots)

Re: # 128

>Whats a job, i can find one again if things dont work out, but to give him excuses, im not gonna do that.
<

Some of us, your well-wishers did not mean sitting under tube-light 8-2-5 or hiding behind sun workstation for good mulah. I ment working on something which wets your heart and soul. It could be simple as help to your brother`s kids in their homework, if you really enjoy. If you find solace and strength five time namaz might help. Do something which celeberate and realize the god inside us.

>Since the restrictions he hasnt been home yet, but i think he is just doing this to make me suffer more, which i am willing to, in return for a decent marriage...which is not the case at the moment. I am taking one step at a time, so what if i left my job and gave up my car, its worth it in the end if it brings him back to me, which even i doubt, but atleast i will not have a gulity conscious , that i did not try everything.
<

Why this victimhood? What is a decent marriage? Long time back I convinced myself if I have to love someone truely then I cannot escape from being a swami. I am still far from being one. The swami who celeberates divinity in one`s own body, mind and soul. If I am empowered then only I can empower others with my my caring, love etc. If I cannot value myself how does it matter what value I put on an idea ie marriage. Just imagine, you are suffering ie your mind, inner calling, words and actions are not in line, and now in this state your have a jeev gowing in your womb, what kind of thought vibes it will receive . . . one of pain, suffering. We parents need to help our kids to be free, confident and blissful. If this union does not help in having healthy kids, then we have harmed not just ourselves but the future generation and world around us. It`s Adharma!

BTW, do not get disheartened, we all are in the same boat. We all are in a way and partially divorced from our true potential. It`s a constant struggle to keep the integrity in tact. This marriage to god within us is always under stress, due to weired sense of I and the desires coming out of the misunderstanding. In a way you are lucky that you are leaning your lesson very early. You are well equipped to handle so the problem has appeared in front of you. Be Blissful, confident and free ... free of past. It`s your birthright. Dont allow anyone take it away from you.

I hope I was helpful. Be happy! Keep faith in yourself alive!

Emma - now is the time to put your law degree to practice!

ZahraJ,

I said that she should ask the story to be taken off the front page because she said she wanted to reconcile with her husband. It was not (for me) a man vs woman issue. My point was, and is, that if she wants reconciliation then she should try not to offend him. If she doesn`t want reconciliation then she could have said whatever she wanted about him and his parents without it affecting the situation overmuch.

I would have made the same suggestion to her husband had he written a similar article about her and then expressed a desire to reconcile as she has done.

Irfan.

#134: I disagree with both your suggestion and approach. Even if she plans to reconcile(a mistake), then she should care ``less`` about his mood`s highs and lows. She should fully exercise her self expression and heartfelt sentiments. Despite the above suggestion, I defintely see immaturity on Emma`s end. To disconnect with the rest of the world and to put herself into house arrest is not showing any love towards the control freak or herself. It`s an indication that how much control that man has on her. Who orders anyone with this kind of stuff in today`s day and age? Let me rephrase my question: who follows such kind of demands made by a control freak?

Reminds me of the real life story of this florida woman who put her brand new mercedes up for sale for $20. The buyer bought it, and asked questions later. On being asked why she ``sold`` the car at this price, she told him she was going through a divorce and so their assets were being split and her husband really wanted to have the car and this was her way of getting even!! Moral: people do the most irrational things in matters involving family disputes.

So, I think irfanhamid is right in questioning the sense behind making this a jerry springer show on chowk when emma also wants to stay married. But then perhaps, emma is not her real name, and she is seeking some moral support from strangers like we all are on chowk without this moral support in any way affecting her real life. Who knows? only Emma knows.

I don`t think the author`s immature-she would have been immature had she gone along with her initial anger and filed for divorce right away without weighing the pros and cons involved.
As to whether she should stay or leave him--it depends on for what she married on the first place? And what`s most important to her?
Most women despite knowing about their husband`s extra-marital activities actually choose to keep living that way for the social-standing that comes with marriage (atleast in my part of the world) I personally know of this woman who`s got proofs of her husband`s infidelity and yet she`s staying because her freedom is more important to her which she enjoys to a considerable extent with her husband--rather than going back to her parents home which she describes as more of a monastry.
So you have to decide on whats more important for you.
If you`re looking for love...than you must leave him though looking for another husband as some ppl have suggested won`t be any good coz the institution of marriage kills all love(Thats only the animalisitic passionate love that dies...the other not so intense love which is more of the kind of love you have for your dog or your siblings etc grows)

BUT if you stick around on the hope that he`ll change....you`ll be in for a bigger misery coz men are incorrigible once the get addicted to illicit love. Like someone already said extreme religiousity is the only thing that can cure that which is unlikely in most cases. Otherwise if a man`s cheated you once, he`ll cheat you forever.
So if you plan to stay, you`ll have to bear in your mind that he WILL not change (as far as his sexual adventures are concerned). The best that can be done is not to make marriage the centre of your universe and pursue your work, your passions and your own life.

Do that while you`re deciding...and take your time to decide....you`ll be more clear-headed once the emotional-stress you`re under right now subsides.
r3d

Re: # 135 (ZahraJ),

I didn`t shouldn`t express her feelings towards him, just that maybe airing dirty laundry in such a public manner is inappropriate. Her cause would be served much better by saying all this to him rather than to us. And anyway you can`t say that slandering someone`s family on the internet is a good thing, no matter the gender of the person on the recieving end and accusing end.

This poor woman has recieved all kinds of responses, ranging from the useful to the plain bizarre. I don`t think I am in a position to tell her to leave her husband or try to reconcile. What most of us don`t realize is that because of her marital trauma, this woman is unstable at the moment. In such a state, she might get carried away by someone`s advice and make a decision that she may regret for the rest of her life. I for one, do not consider myself able to make judgments on her case based on a 500 word article full of inconsistencies which was, by her own admission, written in desperation.

Irfan.

Re: # 138 Irfan:
I understand your take but I have a different way of seeing this matter since I have seen quite a few very close friends and some cousins go through the same turmoil. All of them got out of it and were happier and more peaceful than in their early circumstances. There`s an old saying that the tie or the relationship between husband - wife is the closest relationship but it is the most sensitive one as well. Keeping the sensitivity aspect in mind, I would say if one side is heartbroken and feels mistreated whereas the other wants to get out of that relationship then there is very little to keep the bond together. I am from the school of thought that if two people are not cut out for each other or are not happy with each other then they should not waste a single minute and go their own way to find their bliss. That may mean different things for different people. Amongst many of my close friends, remarriage has happened and their lives have been stable and better than the hell they went through in their 1st marriage. I have also heard about remarriage of two of my aunts in 1960s. I think being well educated was highly well regarded. Also, both of them were independent and career oriented women. This was despite the fact that my late nana jaan was a religious man.

By the way, I do not see anything wrong with everyone expressing their notion about the issue under discussion. In that regard, I would not consider Emma as ``poor woman.`` From that aspect, I would say that she is both courageous and bold woman and in order to secure more compliments, I would strongly recommend to her to get her phone connected, buy a brand new car, look for a decent opportunity that will assist her in her career development and growth. In addition to that, start developing some goals and establish herself first before falling for any insecure and control freak Pakistani male`s trap. Lastly, she has to keep a very important aspect in mind that a Pakistani man is not that open minded to accept and tolerate assertive women who like to flourish in their careers. There are definitely exceptions but those are few and far between. I also think she should charge the phone`s reconnection fee as well as the new car on Jawad`s credit card. After all, she is still his wife and intends to lean in that direction. Why not exercise her ``rights`` :)? Just kidding.

Irfan noone will be reading this article..Im not stupid, i know this will not help him in anyway. My in laws and Jawad are not Internet savvy, Jawad only uses his laptop for msn messenger to keep in touch with his girlfriends in pakistan. If any of them read it, thats a different matter.
Thank you Zahra , r3dlipstick for your advice. I dont know what to say, as i am not doing anything at the moment just taking things as they come. I can only make my decision now, if Jawad asks me to leave one more time, i will ask him to take my back to my parents, maybe the job, cvar and mobile was just excuses to bide him time.

Re: # 139 (ZahraJ),

I am not against her leaving her husband, neither am I in favor of it. Of course, because you have seen the good results from getting out of unhappy marriages in people close to you, so you obviously have a defined point-of-view to it all.

But please, do not call the writer of this article a courageous woman, that would be a disservice to the many brave women out there who break stereotypes everyday. This woman, however, is willing to go to great lengths to keep her husband, who to her is like a security blanket. You yourself stated (#47) that it seems she has no self-respect and thus expecting respect from her husband is unrealistic.

Irfan.

Irfan:

One can lose sight of self respect but still be brave and courageous. These attributes are independent of each other.

By the way, just a corrrection or addition to my previous post, I also know some people who did not choose to get into marital relationship after one bad experience. Since our culture has its own flaws therefore often times people do not think through what they are getting into and just take a plunge for the heck of it - why? Because their friends are getting married or their mother has asked them to. This is an ideal example of cluelessness which is prevalent amongst both men and women from our culture.

Our culture blackmails women in various ways. One was exactly what Nazar wrote in his post. What if she never finds another person? What if she finds someone worse than her first husband? Well, life is about taking chances but moving ahead. How about the man in the picture may not be able to find another decent woman? How about his second wife may be a crook in disguise? How about the 2nd wife may cheat on her husband?

Marriage is just a step in life, like many other steps. For some it is the ultimate whereas for others it`s just a step. But it`s important from the perspective of selecting a right companion. Those who want to have kids must look into the character of the man they are marrying. If you have nothing to appreciate in your husband then why would you like him to be the father of your child? Anyone who thinks that children are the source of keeping the husband and wife together should be ashamed of themselves and the poor logic they have been carrying in their back pocket. If two people have no respect for each other then it`s sinful to even think of having kids. The world is already full of messy people. In my strong opinion, only nice and good people should think of multiplying. The rest should adopt if possible or pray for their sins. This may sound a weird philosophy, but I am a strong believer of that.

Lastly, the women who lean on their husbands for security can definitely have issues when the blanket starts to walk away. They feel exposed and shelterless. That must be a horrible feeling. Probably, they are willing to sacrifice their self esteem to get that ``temporary refuge``. Not sure.

ZahraJ,

I`ll accept as a given your argument that self-respect and courage are completely independant of each other. But her own admission that she is bending over backwards to `keep` him is damning evidence of her dependance, lack of courage and (this is going to hurt) the fact that even those of us raised abroad have flaws, inspite of the excellent sociocultural environment provided. I won`t even go into how sophisticated this woman is, her article is available for public viewing.

Might I suggest you actually do a bit of thinking before riling against `our` culture, men, society at large and any or everything people say. My personal opinion (which may be wrong) is that you do not argue issues, you argue people. Do you seriously believe that the `maternal marriage police` is a phenomenon restricted to our culture? There are numerous references to mothers pushing daughters (and sons) to marry in western pop culture entertainment (during 10 years we were subjected to Friends, in which Monica`s mother wouldn`t get off the girl`s back about getting married). I have a colleague who is doing a doctorate, she constantly complains of her mother`s heckling her to get married. Such rants against our culture and assorted other things don`t make you look progressive, `modern` or enlightened; just makes it clear you have an axe to grind and will rub it against anything whatever the merits or otherwise. I admit that much is wrong with our culture, and that much is right with western cultures; but there are also some good things about our cultures and some bad about western values. Real life is full of grey areas, there are no crisp blacks and whites, rights or wrongs.

Who gets to decide if someone is `good` enough to sire children? You? Me? The government? Auto-control wouldn`t work, because I`m sure no one will say to himself/herself ``I`m too messy, I shouldn`t have kids``. You would have fit right in to Nazi Germany, where the superior race (your good people or übermenschen) would have been allowed to multiply while the üntermenschen (the messy ones) would have slowly died out. Good thing you weren`t a policymaker or little Albert`s parents might never have concieved and the world would have been deprived of Einstein`s genius.

Irfan.

PS: Sorry about the long post, but try as I might I couldn`t shorten it.

Irfan:

:)

Thank god I am a policy maker where I am and things are quite functional and under control. We all have our own style of viewing life and conducting things the way we want to, but I try to avoid making random comments without any base. Unfortunately, I do not have the luxury of time to provide real life examples of all the scenarios I have come across. Therefore, I try to put in a few words summarizing the gist (I am not sure if I am good at that). I can see how certain remarks or statements can be misread, but having an extensive experience in very challenging practical world (a personal choice) gives me an edge over you. I guess you are still in school which has its own challenges, but practical life is quite different.

Interestingly, I have ran into quite a few couples (non-pakistanis) who`ve shared with me the reason behind not having any kids. They did not think that their parents had set a good example for them to follow. Both of them happened to be my colleagues; and I have worked with them for an extensive period of time. Apparently, they were the nicest people around the block. Still, they were very upfront about their deficiencies and accepted those. That says something about the character.

Somehow, I feel that many men will have issues with this write-up since it states a woman`s outburst. Whether it is a rationally put together argument or an outburst, it is a form of communication. This is not an account of a well put together love story or a memoir. It leans towards an outburst. And an outburst can be in any form or shape. Obviously, it will have some loop holes but it will reveal a few things that may ring a bell.

Lastly, my view on the eastern culture may be completely different from yours. What I see as a positive in the western culture may be the most unappealing factor to you. What you may see as the most positive attribute of the eastern culture may mean nothing to me. So, do not try to trivialize .... I detest that trait.