Am I Insane?

I will not dish out any advice to Emma because of this acute sense that this board is looking like a day time TV talk show where Jerry Springer`s audience is yelling and screaming and giving their advice to a bimbo sitting on the stage about which way she should make her decision.

But I will pick on one point ZahraJ brought up - the mistaken belief in superior bloodline or piety of Syeds to the point that they would not want their children to marry non-Syeds.

This is one of the most wretched and disgusting caste system in practice today. And to see the western educated young men and women succumbing to the same is truly baffeling. I have heard of the cases where the girls never got married because their parents could not find them a suitable syed.

Here is what I have to say to Syeds: Your alleged lineage not only goes all the way to Prophet (saw) but to Abu Jahal as well, who belonged to the tribe of Quraish too.

The story is real or not it is has many loop holes...

If I am not wrong than `watta satta` could be a staunch marriage relationship when double marriages take place at same time. Whereas writer first claims herself victim of ``watta satta`` then says that she got married after proposal laid by brother of Bhabi much after her brother`s marriage.

So that time her parents must have observed the family as if they are compatible even not for their daughter but in accordance to general observation of extended family life style.

Dear Mother of Woman,

......... now that malik and echo and romair are here, this board will become a lot more interesting ............ i bet my bippy that pretty soon god, his prophet and his wives and concubines will soon be dragged into this fray ........... please be prepared to get an earful on aisha, khadeeja, miriam, zainab, hafsa and the rest of the harem ..........

.......... my bet, as usual, is on romair to win this battle ..............

... carry on......

It`s a tragedy that children born and raised in one country are made to feel that they really belong to another.

Such double-dipping can work extremely well for a man (boy - for, most such men will never mature on a normal time-line)

For a woman it cannot work, unless she also possesses a biological fetish for sexual slavery.

Re: # 39

One could have ignored this immature one. I would have responded with much more colorful langiage, except here there is a young girl also listening ...why do I care? ... may be because I do not have a daughter.

One will find on AM/FM dial in any metro in US and probably now in India as well, 100s of these divorce lawyers and councilors screaming dumping thier significant others and also dumping the content of their purse on their table. Deeper introspection will reveal that one needs to dump the thought tumor which leads to pain and disease in our relationship to the world. What we are seeking is not outside. Outside is not random things that happen to us, it is reflection of what we create inside. This inside creation happens for few on soccer field, others on hatha-yoga mat and few others in beautiful lisp code.

Go and read 26 again.

For others who think this should have been addressed to Dear Abby:

A lttle peek into childhood of Saddam, Stalin, Bin-Ladden, Bush and even your esteemed Chiknah or Indira Gandhi and you will see abuse and parental disfunctional marriage (man-woman relationship) and in many cases their own. To solve world`s problems created by these minds loving man-woman relationship and healthy family needs to be promoted. A paid consultant will produce 3000 pages and make $300K in two weeks but will not address root cause of disfunctional marriage and family behind every Columbine School tragedy.

malik99: 49

And it certainly IS a Jerry-springer FrontPage now for sure. Just see how the munaafique & muurtids are proving their `maaadernity` & `free-thoughtingness`.

As I `ve always maintained the Ba Ba Blacksheep have proven to be the billi-kaa-goos of Pakistan. Never achieved anything worthwhile in their miserable life.

Whenever ``women`` , ``Islam`` or ``muslim`` article appear here it is smart to let the ``free-thought` and muunafiques & muurtids spleen their bile.

That is much more fun than ``replying``. It is turning into a show now.

Never in the history of mankind so many khisyaani bhillis have noached so few khambaas
with such speed and ferocity.

bas yehi baaqi tha: the ignorant men of chowk.

this board will now take a plunge into the gluteus maximus of hateful people such as echoboom who will pronounce from there no one else but himself to be the standard-bearer of chowk and pak sar zameen.

these mentalities are what anyone with a modicum of sanity should keep away from. he speaks of bile, when it is there for everyone to see that his bile doesn`t just drip. . .it pours. . .and its toxicity follows from board to board. such a miserable life. the poster-child for what hate can do to a person. instant karma might even pass him by.

I read your article - and understand only a little of the emotional turmoil you must feel inside you. Perhaps once there was love in your husbands heart for you but you deserve to be loved for your spirit and truth. I do not think he has given the person you are justice.

It does take two to tango but his callous wish to only leave - well, I think you should be strong and look beyond the need to be with someone - although it may seem to you as though you `need` anothers strength to bolster you the TRUTH is you need NO ONE but you and your faith.

Sing the song that is in your heart and you will find that you communicate to the universe and not just some man who has not yet awakened his soul and is busy living only for the material.

Have faith in children, in the beauty that surrounds you, in yourself. Dont wait - seize life by the throat and live it! :)

and who knows - in the process you may `discover` a real PCharming!

Best of luck.

Dear Emma,

....... i don`t mean to belittle your pain and suffering, but in today`s nytimes kristoff writes about the very real tragedy of women in pakistan............. maybe you can draw some consolation and inspiration from the trials and tribulations of mukhtaran bibi :


``In Pakistan, if a woman reports a rape, four Muslim men must generally act as witnesses before she can prove her case. Otherwise, she risks being charged with fornication or adultery - and suffering a public whipping and long imprisonment.

Mukhtaran is a hero. She suffered what in her society was the most extreme shame imaginable - and emerged as a symbol of virtue. She has taken a sordid story of perennial poverty, gang rape and judicial brutality and inspired us with her faith in the power of education - and her hope. ``

``http://www.nytimes.com/2005/03/05/opinion/05kristof.html?hp

............ compared to mukhtaran bibi`s ordeal, your problem seems trivial, doesn`t it ? ........... i am sure with folks like romair, malik and echo offering you advice you will be just fine :-)

I think it is a bit dangerous to play psychiatrist on sensitive issues like this. Everyone is going to let out their own internal feelings, joys and frustrations and advise the person. I am not even sure if it is a good idea to seek advice in this manner.......

Those who have viewed or been in good marriages, will probably say, ``give it one more chance.`` Those who have viewed or been in abusive marriages, might say, ``get out immediately.`` Those who have not been married, at all, might say, ``if the person isn`t your ideal, find someone else.``

It seems like the writer can probably get a divorce anytime she wants. She has suggested that her husband keeps saying this to her, himself. It doesn`t seem like she is being physically harmed. She seems confused and under emotional stress. In such a situation, I think one should be cautious of quickly jumping to or suiggesting divorce. Since, it is quite hard to undo a divorce.....specifically within a Muslim marriage.........

At the very least, people advising her to, ``leave,`` should perhaps take it easy, and suggest to her to visit a professional psychiatrist first, and get some professional advice. Preferably a desi one, who can understand the cultural issues involved............

Where is Shankar when he is needed. He seems to show up everywhere he is not needed. And never shows up where he could be of some use...............

Subedar

Little Beta Emma, what I wonder is …

Before your in-laws became your susral they had already been in-laws of your brother and your relatives for some years. Which means, neither Jawad nor his family were any stranger to you and your family.
You knew or at least supposed to know the level of sophistication, intellectual standard, monetary affluence, family values, everything of your susral walas along with the number of course meals they are used to.
Then why did you approve such a “backward “ husband and family to start with?

I mean it was not at all a blind date, you opted all this voluntarily and gladly because … according to my expert opinion … in some aspects you were slightly superior to them and intentionally or unconsciously thought that you could keep them under your high heels.

Jawad initial display of satisfaction inflated your head even further.

Moreover you have a penchant to exploit your genitals as reward-penalty mechanism … to use sex as a whip and candy.

But, now after a while, Jawad has lost interest in you … primarily because of your high nose … you have lost your charm and sheen for him. He has started writing you on his left ball and discovered that life could be lived rather enjoyed even without having you around. Something you hadn’t expected at all and have extreme difficulties to digest … you have got a sort of emotional constipation.

You would have no problem dissolving this marriage had it been your initiative. Now you feel rejected by the one who should have considered himself lucky to have you. Jawad has turned the table on you.

You don’t want to leave, because it would mean defeat from someone who is in your weird world inferior to you, but you want to continue only on your own conditions. Jawad don’t offer you that. You are ambivalent. No desperate. Try to avenge, teach them a lesson … don’t know how to do … out of that frustration came this lousy piece.

And Emma beta, it is only meant to serve the following purposes …
1. To demonstrate to your hubby and his family that you are capable enough to strip them naked … on internet … wow
2. Try to show them the huge difference in the leagues you two belong to individually as well as family wise … wow … Jawad and his parents should “realize” what special pearl they have got
3. To convey the message that their daughter will be in trouble had they not “mend” their ways

I am pretty doubtful if it will help.

So what should you do?
Should I be honest … my sincere most advice to you would be … come down to earth … give respect first before demanding respect … don’t underestimate people … try to be insaan … don’t play over smart …

A bit of humility, a little bit modesty … and everything will be fine.
You don’t seem to be totally without brain … though I am not sure about the size and quality of heart … have some cardiac surgery, some emotional transplantation and everything will be alright.

Emma,

Welcome to Chowk. Your piece brings up many good points.

There are male interactors who will try to point out that there are women who suffer more than you. These are the same men who have not professed lifting a single finger to ameliorate the eco/pol/soc/cult factors that lead to the exploitation of women. Then there are men who will tell you to stop being so ``selfish`` because having expectations of equality, mutuality and respect as agreed on b/n both partners is ``class`` discrimination. To the latter I will point out that many of us were/are raised by men coming from working class backgrounds who are the exemplar of support and love-and are feminists.

Wanting and having a life and a partner who works with you towards respect, love and mutuality is a worthy goal-one that every human being is entitled to. Dont let anyone tell you otherwise. Get counseling alone if your spouse wont come with you. Hopefully he will come around. As others have suggested, the answers will come from you and your spouse.

Good luck and all the best.

Re: # 55

Ana,

I`m praying Karma doesnt pass Depends Sahib by but bestows him his rightful place....amoebadom....if one fails to suceed, one must try try again! ;)

Madame Emma Nisa:

With due respect, your case is closed. No more discussions on those lines. I am sure you must have appreciated some points and kicked out others. Your board will be taken over now.

Ta Ta...

Since bro` Hamidm referred to this story, therefore I decided to post it here. I love this guy`s writings. It`s men like him that make me ``danwa` dol/double minded`` on my singlehood stance.

When Rapists Walk Free
By NICHOLAS D. KRISTOF

Published: March 5, 2005
One of the gutsiest people on earth is Mukhtaran Bibi. And after this week, she`ll need
that courage just to survive.

Mukhtaran, a tall, slim young woman who never attended school as a child, lives in a poor
and remote village in the Punjab area of Pakistan. As part of a village dispute in 2002,
a tribal council decided to punish her family by sentencing her to be gang-raped. She
begged and cried, but four of her neighbors immediately stripped her and carried out the
sentence. Then her tormenters made her walk home naked while her father tried to
shield her from the eyes of 300 villagers. Mukhtaran was meant to be so shamed that she
would commit suicide. But in a society where women are supposed to be soft and helpless,
she proved indescribably tough, and she found the courage to live. She demanded the
prosecution of her attackers, and six were sent to death row.She received $8,300 in compensation and used it to start two schools in the village, one for boys and one for girls, because she feels that education is the best way to change attitudes like those that led to the attack on her. Illiterate herself, she then enrolled in her own elementary school.

I visited Mukhtaran in her village in September and wrote a column about her. Readers
responded with an avalanche of mail, including 1,300 donations for Mukhtaran totaling
$133,000. The money arrived just in time, for Mukhtaran`s schools had run out of funds. She had sold her family`s cow to keep them open because she believes so passionately in the redemptive power of education. Now that cash from readers has put the schools on a sound financial footing again. And Mercy Corps, a first-rate American aid group already active in Pakistan, has agreed to assist Mukhtaran in spending the money wisely. The next step will be to start an ambulance service for the area so sick or injured villagers can get to a hospital.

Down the road, Mukhtaran says, she will try to start her own aid group to battle honor
killings. And even though she lives in a remote village without electricity, she has
galvanized her supporters to launch a Web site: www.mukhtarmai.com. (Although her legal
name is Mukhtaran Bibi, she is known in the Pakistani press by a variant, Mukhtar Mai).
Until two days ago, she was thriving. Then - disaster.

A Pakistani court overturned the death sentences of all six men convicted in the attack
on her and ordered five of them freed. They are her neighbors and will be living
alongside her. Mukhtaran was in the courthouse and collapsed in tears, fearful of the
risk this brings to her family.

``Yes, there is danger,`` she said by telephone afterward. ``We are afraid for our lives,
but we will face whatever fate brings for us.``

Mukhtaran, not the kind of woman to squander money on herself by flying, even when she
has access to $133,000, took an exhausting 12-hour bus ride to Islamabad yesterday to
appeal to the Supreme Court. Mercy Corps will help keep her in a safe location, and those
donations from readers may keep her alive for the time being. But for the long term,
Mukhtaran has always said she wants to stay in her village, whatever the risk, because
that`s where she can make the most difference.

I had planned to be in Pakistan this week to write a follow-up column about Mukhtaran.
But after a month`s wait, the Pakistani government has refused to give me a visa,
presumably out of fear that I would write more about Pakistani nuclear peddling. (Hmm, a
good idea. ...) Mukhtaran`s life illuminates what will be the central moral challenge of this century, the brutality that is the lot of so many women and girls in poor countries. For starters, because of inattention to maternal health, a woman dies in childbirth in the developing world every minute.

In Pakistan, if a woman reports a rape, four Muslim men must generally act as witnesses
before she can prove her case. Otherwise, she risks being charged with fornication or
adultery - and suffering a public whipping and long imprisonment. Mukhtaran is a hero. She suffered what in her society was the most extreme shame imaginable - and emerged as a symbol of virtue. She has taken a sordid story of perennial poverty, gang rape and judicial brutality and inspired us with her faith in the power of education - and her hope.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/03/05/opinion/05kristof.html
E-mail: nicholas@nytimes.com

Re: # 59

........... from the peanut gallery

wow!.... now we are getting somewhere ......

p.s. i showed this letter to mrs hamidm and she thinks it is a hoax......... and who am i to question her woman`s intuition ........ mrs hamidm does not have any use for the internet and the cell phone and the other day expressed great surprise at the news that the soviet union had fallen apart, but she knows people ................ ``no self-respecting educated modern woman would put up with crap like this unless she is a nutcase - there is something fishy about ms. emma whatshername ........it is not as if she is being threatened and abused by her husband ...............and what are you doing reading crap like this - i thought you were doing research on kitchenaid appliances``, she admonished with a crinkle of that botox-rejuvnated nose ............ to add insult to injury, my daughter chimed in with, ``abu, pakistani men are such loosers, but the women deserve them``.............. and then they took off to the mall to buy yet more shoes leaving me to ponder emma`s dilemma .................

I don`t think you are insane. However, I question the sanity of some of the interactions you have received! I find it interesting that many of the presumably Pakistani folks who have responded to your post have chosen a triage approach, if you will, to your situation. Instead of offering constructive comments or advice, they choose to point out that there are people worse off than you in the world.

That is hardly fair.

My cultural awareness of Pakistani-Muslim family values is somewhat limited. That said, it is my opinion that if your husband wants a divorce, he should have to file it himself.

You mentioned your husband`s business trips to Amsterdam, casino memberships, etc.. All of these are indicators that he has a lifestyle that condones sexual promiscuity. I think 8 months of abstinence is a good thing in your case. Now that sufficient time has passed since you have been to bed with him, you can go forward and get an HIV test and a full battery of STD tests and have faith in the results.

You deserve better.

Good luck.