Am I Insane?

emma:

a quick welcome and cyber hugs!

more later....you may be agitated and confused and things may have improved or gotten worse...hopefully in the ensuing discussion you will find something helpful...am in a rush...more later

t

emma,
u seem to be in quite the dilemma. my advice is u shud leave him. if all what u describe of him is true, i would not trust him. whether it ends up breaking ur brothers marriage is irrelevant. u cannot and should not continue living in the conditions. good luck and may god be with u.

Emma,

It seems like your life is full of immature people who do not care for you. Your husband is totally immature about how to deal with a real woman, as he visits Amsterdam and other places for questionable activities. Your brother also seems to be very immature in that he is willing to leave his wife just because your marriage did not work out. In a way your brother is forcing you to remain trapped in a loveless marriage where there is risk to your health and life, especially if he is visiting prostitutes in Amsterdam.

I suggest that it is high time that you forget about everyone else and just think about what is good for you. You should get out of this mess and face whatever consequences that results in.

Emma, I was hoping this was not a true tale when I read it but I guess it is. I think you need to put yourself first here. You cannot hold yourself hostage because someone else might do something...in this case your brother leaving his wife and kids. I`m sorry but apart from your husband being questionable your brother seems to be blackmailing you into staying in a marriage that neither you nor your husband want to be in any more. Everyone needs to handle this like adults. This seems like a horrible time for you. Hope you look after yourself and stay strong....for yourself.

Dear Emma,

You have a pretty name. It seems you have gone through alot in just little time after Biggest decision of life. But it looks to me you have been very much rational thinker to save the marriage and don`t let others get any harm. Despite of your parents support to come back you are staying there. And its your clearness about life and relationships that has made you think, raise and argue about the problem with sensibility of solving them as well.

It seems you got married much after your brother wed to your Bhabi. So that would be a definite period in which your in-laws might had judged you too to be part of them and their son proposed you. So might be that some frustrations of their side and some stagnant phase of your life which is problemizing now...Hope that its over soon.

But if your in-laws are not supporting you else blaming you then you should make your parents invlove to have them a proper meeting about these issues considering their son`s attitude. Other people should also carry the burden of panic as you are to solve the situation.

But its your life and do what makes you satisfied .

I hope things get fine and you enjoy with your husband everything you wish for...

Cheers,

That is why ``watta satta`` is frowned upon amongst many Pbis....leads to problems....we shunned all such proposals for our siblings.

Your parents and brother are modern enough to take you back; yet backward enough to send the bhabi back.

You write well. You are educated enough to show your family the stupidity of sending the bhabi back.

You are more aware of your situation, and can make a better decision, than chowkies reading this. If the split is inevitable, why prolong the pain.

Desis can`t judge others character in decades. And they can reveal the character of their fiances, future in laws in mere seconds. I`ve seen too many cases of such ``dhokhas``.

Re: # 3

Her brother will have to leave his marriage as his wife is the sister of Emma`s husband. If she breaks her ties with her husband in the present circumstances his brothers marriage is in jeapordy anyways. I think its wrong to blame her brother for anything.

She should divroce this guy though. He isn`t worth it.

paindupastry #7,
I am just curious to know, how is her brother`s marraige affected by Emma`s marraige? Do you mean to say her brother`s wife would leave her brother if Emma`s leaves her husband?

Only you can decide for yourself. Just don`t live your entire life looking out for your uncaring husband, or even ur sis-in-law...what you could do, however, would be to try and knock some sense into your brother. In any case, at the end of the day, you`re not responsible if other adults ruin their lives over fragile egos. There comes a point when you have to be selfish and look out for yourself.

``Like most Pakistani men, Jawad is a very liberal guy when it comes to himself. He drinks, takes his occasional weed, eyes up gals.I discover these traits after our marriage. ``

Sounds like a scumbag. Now ask yourself, is this what your bargained for? Is this fair to you? It is not being selfish to want to leave. If he puts his work above his family then you need to think of yourself first in this situation.

People WILL judge you, and you will be blamed. That is the evil in your society. Your brother may indeed also suffer a bit. If the wife of your brother is anything like your husband, then you both will only benefit by thinking of yourselves first. Your brother WILL manage. As for what other people will say...there is no easy way out. Which path offers the least long term resistance? Either way, only you know. From my position of comfort, I`m inclined to say: get rid of him. One way or the other. Just get rid of him.

And no, you`re not crazy.

Emma Nisa:

This is the tragedy of the modern, educated and liberated women of the East. You wouldn`t get your rightful place by begging for it. Many feminists argue and argue endlessly how unfairly women are treated by the men. When the time comes to stand up and assert, they start withering and crumbling.

I cannot suggest what you should do in your situation. but if you believe your husband is a `jerk` who cheats on you, do what a liberated woman ought to do. Else, promise not to complain of male chauvinism. They would continue leading double lives until they are stared in the face and made to blink.

I am sorry to read your story. Thousands of other women have similar stories but they`re living their lives quietly. They have compromised the way it is customary in our society.

If you want to get even and have the heart to do it, strat having a double life yourself and let him know it. Now you might be thinking, ``Is freethinker insane?``

I know you are thinking about your brother`s family and also trying to save your own marraige, but there is a limit to what you can sacrifice.

From what you have said about your husband he really does seem like a typical Pakistani male with double standards. You tried your best to save your marraige with him. I think it is time to let go. As far as your brother`s marraige is concerned, he is being very unfair with the way he is dealing with it. But if he does want to give up his wife for just this reason, then that is HIS problem and decision and actually his wife should have an issue with it. If I were in your place I would get out of this marraige and tell your brother to do whatever he wants. I am sure your brother will come around because no one wants to end their marraige like this.

sorry to sound harsh, but no self respecting woman should stay with a man who doesn`t love her or respect her

you`re educated and can have a wonderful future, with or without a man.... don`t get bullied or intimidated by family members, cuz in the end, you have to do what`s best for you, you`re the one living with the outcomes of your decisions, not anyone else

leave him take care of yourself, and be at peace.... as for your bhabhi and your brother leaving her, if their marriage is strong, they will stay with each other, if not, the inevitable will happen no matter what you decide about your marriage

good luck and be strong

Re: Article
“I know I’m a Pakistani, but while living in New York I have never sheltered myself from what’s happening around me. Went to University Parties, never drank booze or did drugs and did not appreciate others doing it either. But took it in my stride, and accepted other people`s way of living.

Like most Pakistani men, Jawad is a very liberal guy when it comes to himself. He drinks, takes his occasional weed, eyes up gals.I discover these traits after our marriage.”

You and your husband seem to be very different people.

Some marriages are made in heaven for the rest its best to end them as soon as possible.

Good luck,

Faruk

I don’t like to comment on personal issues but if someone wants you to be in their bedroom, then I think it is time to put some sense into their head.
Emma, I don’t know how to say this and I know the whole women lib crowd would tear me apart once I am finished with this post.

I will try to be candid but if I am not; ignore my post and go along your complaining ways.
First principle in arranged or semi arranged marriages like that; never disparage your spouse’s family not until you develop a level a comfort with them that comes with years of dealing and living with a family. Your first problem; you look down on his family. They may be from Pind Dadan Khan but they are not exactly stupid either else, he would not have successful business in the US. you grew up in the US but you made this bed and you should be ready to sleep in it too. You need to show respect to his family, as you want him to respect your family. Snotty is the word for people like you who look down on others and it shows thru. You husband is a nice guy respect him for that. It seems to me that he never disparaged your family neither did he bring your attitude up with your brother. I think that was a nice thing to do and he deserves credit for that.
Second, you sound like you are from Pind Dadan Khan. What is wrong with drinking? Smoking yeah, gross habit but moderate drinking is acceptable in the US and you ought to know that.
People have roving eyes guys have them and gals have them. That’s not something you cannot live with as long as he was not making an ass of himself, ogling should not have worried you at all. Gosh, I know gals and guys who share their spouses with friends and others. Just ogling should not be some thing to worry about at all. Btw, if I see some good-looking hot girl, not only I check her out completely but make sure that my spouse also looks at the girl to tell me that her nose is crooked. Holy cow, when my father was alive, we used to check out good-looking girls together. I caught him several times in hospital right before he died and he was still checking out Nurses. My ex-wife and the current one always tell me when they see a good-looking guy and they are middle aged now. You need to relax.
Now other women! That I think is serious! When did that start? After you had shown your contempt for his family and after he was disgusted with your attitude? If he was going at it from the very beginning, then you should have worked him on this issue alone w/o bringing his family roots into it.
One last thing self-made people develop into their own and often it is hard for them to listen to somebody they barely know. Your husband may have continued with his way because he was set in his ways before the marriage and found it hard to cut it out right after the marriage. Pak and Indian men have false sense of pride, it takes them some time to submit to their women; once they do, they follow them like puppy dog. Learn to pay attention to little thing.
My advice to you:
Stop calling him and harassing him. Write neat little letters instead telling how much you love him and how much you would like to be with him and do that every other day until he calls you.
Now if he had physically abused you, then dump him right now and don’t look back. Those guys are not worth any effort.

emma,

i hesitate to give a stranger advice on their personal life, but you have brought this to us, and we can either be silent, or tell you what is on our minds.

we at chowk are quite liberal with our advice. no one here will know what is best for you, but you. but consider this: it has been eighteen months. there is no child to think about, or is there? my mother (who is a self-respecting woman) stayed with my father for thirty-eight years thinking that one day he just might change. and he did in one way -- he ended up leaving her. there were moments, little pockets of happiness in those years, but there was also a lot of pain, a lot of self-doubt on her part, a lot of erosion of self-esteem. . .and while he`s gone on with his life, and remarried (the woman he left my mother for), the fallout from all those years still affects her every now and then.

if your marriage has been such that you are not happy, that your husband continues to say ``please leave me``, that you two are now living apart. . . is this a life you want to continue living? only you can answer that question yourself. but to stay with a crutch, with something that drains you emotionally and mentally. . . is damaging more so to yourself than to anyone else. and so ultimately you have to make that decision for yourself, not your parents, not your brother and his family. and if your brother could understand that, if he loves his wife, if his wife is nothing like her brother, then why leave her?

you`re not insane. but you are confused. and if you wait for him to come back to his senses and be a ``proper`` husband to you, chances are you will be waiting a helluva long time. and only you can know whether that`s worth it or not. and from what you`ve described, take some serious time out during this separation and rather than thinking about whether he will change his mind, think about his NOT changing his mind, and who all that will affect.

it is said that love is patient and kind, that love bears all things. . . but i have read nothing of love or affection in here, except possibly the love you have for your own family. . . and your brother, and just as much as you cannot bear to see his marriage broken up, can he bear to see you going through this? do you think he will be happy knowing that his sister is living a lie to keep his marriage together? that`s rather harsh, but there it is. there`s no sense in being completely selfish. . . but being completely selfless in this case is not the answer either. and martyrdom isn`t always offered selflessly either. and what if after all your refusals, he is the one to leave and thus force total separation upon you?

the road you are on is not an easy one, but there is a bend, and another path. . . and i wish you all the best. . . and apologize for anything that appears like unwelcome advice. what is most important is that you remain safe, and strong.

all the best
--ana

Emma,

u have the audacity to disparage ur spouse`s family by labeling them as uneducated and ``rags to riches``. And looking at ur brother`s response, it seems to me that u and ur family r not that behind either in their jahalat.

u said: ``Belonging to an educated family unlike my in-laws ( just rags to riches) I have a sophisticated way of doing things. It may seem normal to many of you but having three course meals with starters is not a trend with my in laws! They labeled me too modern and outgoing. New York maybe in America but for everyone but my in laws, they think it is in Pind Dhadan Khan. ``


If u r so liberated and modern, y the hell u married a guy without living with him?

Who was holding a pistol on ur head to marry a pakistani and muslim guy ?

Are you waiting to be invited to the party?

If not, pack your bags lady.

dear chowk staff,

.........there must be some kind of mistake - i think this letter was meant for ``dear abby``........

Re:HP#15

The root of the problem could be that the author is a Pakistani-American (or ABCD) while her husband is from Pakistan. That is always very difficult to work out given the large cultural differences. I have seen successful marriages between ABCDs and FOBs, but they are rare. Typically they face problems related to communication and the ability to understand the other person.

In fact marriages between non-desis and desis are not as difficult as those between ABCDs and FOBS. That is because when you marry a non-desi you know what you are getting into and are mentally prepared for the challenge. When FOBs and ABCDs get married, they often try to overlook their cultural difference by focusing on the exterior similarity like similar family, religion etc. Once they are together the differences kick in real hard and you realize the blunder.

Hmm.... I did not think of responding to this post but looking at responses ranging from unsympathetic to hostile, I feel that I have to respond.

Dear Emma, clearly, you are at the receiving end here. There should be no doubt about that. As for your ``snobbery`` and your in-lawas calling you ``be-ghairat`` etc, it happens in a lot of cases but rarely results in a divorce. Usually, in these cases the husband and wife start living separately or a baby is born etc.

However in this case, something is seriously missing: Jawad has no inclination to work this marriage out. The question is why. I mean, certainly no man wants to leave his wife for a $300 service provider in Europe or US or just because the wife is snobbish.

I think Jawad is in a serious relationship with somebody else and he has confided in his mother who may or may not have told his dad. I also think that his parents do not want you guys to separate.

This is the best possible reason for Jawad acting in this strange fashion. Verify this and if this indeed turns out to be the case, leave him and PDK. PDK is not a place for modern women with law degrees, JFK is.

Emma, Whatever decision you take please keep this in mind that you are responsible for what is happening to you.You cant blame anyone else except yourself.If you continue to live in a marriage where you dont find any love,then this is obviously more than offset by the love that you have for your husband and also the altruistic satisfaction that you feel of saving your brothers marriage. You are in North America and your parents are supportive of you.So you have a choice.This is more than one can say about many other cases.

Does this fit into the traditional Watta Satta?

I though Watta Satta was when the two pairs were put into an arranged marriage; one marriage securing the other. Not when one pair is already married. And their brother and sister propose to each other (i.e not arranged) after the fact.

Also, the following line doesn`t fit the Watta Satta model, ``When I asked my brother what would happen if I decide to leave Jawad and how my decision would affect his marriage, he replied, “ I love my wife and two daughters but I also love you, if you come back. She goes back!``

In a Watta Satta, if your husband divorced you, then your brother would divorce his wife. Not if you left your husband, yourself. Isn`t the whole purpose of a Watta Satta to ensure the husband doesn`t leave the wife, not the other way around............

I am quite suprised at the response of your brother. What kind of person leaves his wife and two daughters for no reason. What fault is it of theirs?

Here is my $.02: Marriage is tough for probably over 90% of the people. It has to be worked on. Love is over-rated. Companionship is far more important. The grass always seems greener on the other side. And the other girl or guy always seems more compatible. That doesn`t mean he/she really is.

If there is no physical abuse involved and/or no physical affairs involved, then one should work at it. By physical abuse, I also mean locking a person in the house, etc. etc. Not just hitting the person.

Most of the people who will give you advice, to quickly dump the guy are probably, more than likely, unmarried at the moment. That is also a road you can try. However, judging by how quickly you made your initial decision to get married, you should be very careful in taking such a step............And be 100% sure that you want to take it............

dear emma,

....... i don`t mean to sound unsympathetic but you can do whatever you want, just get off the front page quickly ........... as far as i am concerned anyone who asks for advice from total strangers is insane - so, if the straitjacket fits, wear it ............ sorry

chowk staff : are you really so desperate that you will publish anything ?....... if you are not careful you will soon be printing my ``conversations with god and other inanities`` ............ come to think of it, you are not alone in the publishing world - after all they printed and sold a gazillion copied of trash like ``tuesdays with morrie`` !!!!!!

Dear Emma,
i have all sympathy for you.
i wonder how you decided to marry in watta satta in 21th century .
there is many ups and downs in marriage life but that are not the kind you have mentioned.
The guy is not ready to live with you and announcing to every one about it.
that`s the limit.you are lucky to have no kid ,so secure yourself financially and leave him.
Let the brother find the solution himself.
You should learn `i come first`
be courgeous .
Good luck.

You are an empowered woman in outwardly sense. A newzealander met in Indian restaurant in NJ, sent his news paper published story. What I thought might help was this:
It gives us space in our mind and thinking so that we have a more creative ability to understand the subtleties of existence. You feel very good about yourself. It gives you increased vitalit

I am sure there might be equivalent in Islaam or whatever followed in westPunjab. If not Yoga is not a religion in legion sense. It belongs to you as much as it belongs to an Inidian or religious Hindu.

Full story:
SEA BRIGHT — After years of practicing and then teaching yoga, Murray Dow turned to it as a business after using yoga’s soothing effect to work his way through a critical juncture in his life.

Dow, a native of New Zealand, had relocated to the United States, and in particular to this borough, to be near his daughter, Chelsea, 11, who lives in Rumson with her mother. He and his wife were getting divorced, his father had died, and he had sold the publishing company he had owned and operated for 20 years before moving to America. Life was upside down.

``I used that as an opportunity to reinvent myself,`` he said, explaining why he decided to follow his longtime interest in yoga and make it his career choice with a studio and spa in the borough.

The studio opened in a former computer store on Ocean Avenue in late June, and Dow said the turnout has not disappointed.

``It’s been living up to our expectations,`` he said.

Dow named his yoga studio Brahma for one of the trinity of three gods in Hindu tradition, along with Vishnu and Shiva.

``Brahma is the god of creation who created all things,`` he explained. ``Vishnu is the sustainer and Shiva is the destroyer. It signifies the cycle of life ... human evolution. We’re inspiring the creative aspect in all things on the human spirit.``

Dow has transformed the interior of the building the studio and spa occupies into a tranquil haven where classes are held and therapeutic massages — ``healing body work`` — are given.

He said he started from the ground up, putting in a new substructure, then a new ceiling and new floor tiles, and restoring an exposed brick wall along one side of the interior of the building.

``Being across from the ocean,`` he added, ``is a peaceful environment.``

Dow said he chose Sea Bright, where he has been living, because despite the empty stores and its ``sort of scruffy`` appearance, he could see revitalization on the horizon. He also felt his business could service the beach club community in the summer.

``Yoga simply means union — union of body, mind and spirit,`` Dow said of the teaching offered in his classes. ``Yoga developed about 6,000 years ago. It’s a holistic science.``

He said it involves asana, or posture, the physical aspect; pranayama, the yoga breathing technique, and meditation.

``With those three, you’re able to purify and strengthen the body, mind and spirit,`` he said. ``It brings synergy and harmony between them.

``The ultimate goal,`` he explained, ``is to raise our consciousness from a very gross state to a much more refined or subtle experience in evolution — raising our spirit essentially.

``It gives us space in our mind and thinking so that we have a more creative ability to understand the subtleties of existence,`` he said. ``You feel very good about yourself. It gives you increased vitality, increased flexibility. It improves digestion and bodily functions. It improves concentration and the ability to handle stress, and gives you peace of mind and the tools and ability to relax in this crazy world. That’s why so many people are doing it.``

Running, used by some to relax, is ``jarring`` by comparison and can cause physical problems, he continued. ``It’s not for everybody.``

``Yoga can be very gentle and restorative to very vigorous and athletic and everything in between,`` he noted.

Dow said he took up yoga as a teenager when he was very active in sports in New Zealand — cross country, rugby, cricket — and has been doing it for about 28 years now. He’s 46 today.

``In my teens, I discovered yoga really helped me with my flexibility,`` he said.

About six or seven years ago, Dow said, he discovered Swami Shantimurti while still living in New Zealand, and the swami introduced him to a very powerful integral yoga practice based around Swami Satyananda, of Bihar, India. He said he trained with Swami Shantimurti in New Zealand to become a certified yoga teacher and is registered in the United States now with The Yoga Alliance.

Brahma currently offers classes seven days a week, as early as 7:30 a.m. and as late as beginning at 7:30 p.m. on Tuesdays and Thursdays. In addition to regular classes, there are specialty classes such as classes for pregnant women, classes for teens, and classes for parent and child. They run for 75 or 90 minutes, begin at $19 and are less expensive in packages.

``You can come every day and as many times a day as you want,`` Dow said.

Dow came to the United States in early 2000. He said he met his ex-wife in 1988 while on a business trip to New York. He explained that friends he had met while sailing in New Zealand were from Rumson and introduced him to her — she was an American from Rumson — while he was here. They were married later that same year.

``She wanted to move back to the states in 1996,`` he said. ``I spent the next four years coming back and forth to visit Chelsea. After four years, I decided that wasn’t good enough.``

Swami Shantimurti helped him heal, with yoga, from the breakup of his marriage and the loss of his father, Dow said, and that turned into his new career.

``That was quite a transformation,`` he said. ``That brought it all together for me. The transformation I experienced is the type of transformation you experience with yoga. You go inward and you open up from the inside out.

``It teaches you to find the answers inside,`` he said. ``It’s really powerful and it works.

``People wouldn’t be doing it for 6,000 years if it didn’t work.``

This was a hilarious read. I think you should be dating another guy. In order to piss your inlaws off, you should checkout the spring variety at Anne Taylor. There are some pretty colors and short (short) dresses. See if these steps has any impact on your husband and his family.

On a serious note, I am not sure if both of you were ready for marriage. Why would an educated woman be so thrilled that a guy wants to marry her? Also, this is the 2nd or 3rd time on Chowk when good looks were misread and they turned out to be deceptive looks. Why do women think that good looking guys cannot be jerks? A research conducted by the Society Of Die-Hard Singles has revealed that most of the good looking and apparently well rounded guys are weird creatures with dubious characters. Can anything be done in that regard? Very simple. Cleanse your environment of any extra elements/waste and move on.

Have a nice weekend!

Probably go out and watch River Dance or Chitty Chitty Bang Bang to change the mood. By the way, you must take your date with you and let the hubby know that :)

Best Wishes :)

Emma,
No, you are not insane, just confused and hesitant to take a big decision.

Most of us women, like Ana`s mom live with the false hope that `he` might change some day.
The reality is, `he` doesn`t change; `he` simply gets worse.

Your brother will eventually come around; don`t worry about his marriage and hold yourself responsible. Deal with the issue independent of his marriage.
Take hold of your life now. Believe in your self and have faith in the almighty.
Best of luck.
SK.

romair:

i have read your comments on abuse before, and apparently you have no concept of what psychological abuse means. yes, reading emma`s ``dear abby`` as hamid refers to it, we can infer that there is no physical abuse, but you seem to dismiss psychological abuse altogether.

emma does come across as being a little more on the snobbish side, but that needn`t necessarily cancel out the fact that this marriage is not what it was cut out to be. and yes, companionship can and does overrule love, but there is no companionship to speak of here. we don`t have his side of the story, but apparently there was never much companionship to begin with.

so why did she marry him? he was someone that came into her life without much hassle or heartache, she says. are those good enough reasons to marry someone? who are we to judge?

psychological abuse does go a little deeper than ``he doesn`t spend enough time with me``, or ``he`s always away on trips.`` what about infidelity? someone talked about how he shouldn`t have to change his lifestyle. marriages are about change and compromise. when you want to commit to someone, and then not really commit, there is a huge problem which cannot be worked out if both parties do not wish to do so. and it is something that breaks you when that is the case.

we have only emma`s word here. we do not know the other side of the story. but i don`t know if the other side will help much. he does not want to be with her anymore. that has been emphasised time and time again, and even if some of us are not married, we have been in relationships that were thought of as very strong commitments, relationships that some of us wished might be marriages. . . just because we are not married does not mean that we would say dump the man. i for one lived watching an unhappy marriage for much of my life. i`m not completely alien to the dynamic.

your education, it appears is more than lacking, and it is apparent through your posts just about everywhere. but unfortunately for us, and for you, that is not going to change.

Dear Miss Nisa,
I so totally empathize with you. You poor thing. Here`s a Hug!!! Extending a Cyber HUG@@
It must be extremely psychologically draining to stay in marriage with Jawad.
My dear, Your brother needs to understand that he cant punish another woman for his brother`s misdeeds. Your Bhabi has done nothing wrong, but it seems that her lot has probably improved by coming into your enlightened family. I am assuming that if you have a certain cultured way of doing things, so would your parents and brother.

You need to be strong!
Kick Jawad to the Curb!
File for divorce from him!
Get half of everything he owns!
Hit him where it would hurt him the most!
It is apparent that he has no love or respect for you.
Why stay with such a man!
You are wasting your time. You could be rid of him, and this time find a guy for yourself. Someone who would love you, care for you, and most of all respect you as a person.

My sister got a divorce from her good for nothing husband. I am so glad that she did. She is so much more happy now. She has no restrictions on her person. She comes and goes as she pleases. She works and spends her money as she pleases. She is working on her Law Degree and if she finds a decent man, so be it.

You too will find a man who is right for you.
You and Jawad, it seems live on two separate mental planes. Your education and independence threatens him.
Men like him tend to want to marry girls who are above their class, just to validate their own worth and masculinity, but your constant presence reminds him how inadequate he truly is and how low of a self esteem he has, thus those idiotic restrictions on you, critique of your behaviors, etc. He wants you to leave him because he wants to gain the satisfaction that I married this upperclass sophisticated educated girl and `` I left her``. What is she compared to me? Its a powertrip honey!

You need to talk to my sister. She married beneath her social class but his complexes turned the marriage intoa living hell for her.

Zahra Like always presents her unique and wonderful point of view.

Take heed to your own conscience. You are not responsible for your brother`s actions or your husbands. Stand behind your sister in law. She deserves your love and sympathy.

Leave Jawad and cut your losses!

Aap ka eik Pakistani Bhai

Re: # 29
Thank you Ana,
You needed to tell Romair that!
Its so annoying to get a ``KNOW IT ALL`` view on every F**king topic.
Go Ana.

=== Interact Filtered ===
view this users filtered interacts

=== Interact Filtered ===
view this users filtered interacts

=== Interact Filtered ===
view this users filtered interacts

There are three reasons that I wanna give you more advice on your very public marriage woes.
1. I had a good time in the bar.
2. Nobody had asked my advice on marriage/divorce before.
3. I am the most experienced person on these issues on chowk.

One bonus reason is that I have nothing to dump on the RSS/BJP tonight. (Harish is stuck in some silly village.)

Your brother has nothing to do with your marriage. You never asked his advise when you got married. So stop running to him and don’t ruin his marriage because your marriage is bust. (Mostly by you, I must add.)
Why did you post your story on chowk? 1. You don’t have anybody to talk to or 2. You need sympathy and want the world to know how bad your husband is.
I am also skeptical of your story. Why is he asking you to leave but won’t initiate divorce himself? I really think you need to look at the mirror frequently.

Marriage is a difficult institution. You can have a cavalier attitude about it or you work on it to make it a success. Sometime men have to work on their marriages but the truth is, it is mostly women who end up working on their marriages.
First two years of any marriage are most demanding. That is even truer in our culture when a new bride has to learn a new family and has to deal with new relations. It is extremely tough and often takes a toll on marriage.
In your case, I keep thinking that may be you two stopped respecting each other very early in your marraige. Why did that happen? Do you have any idea? May be just may be you never asked to go with him on business trips politely.
One last thing I wanna say and I hope you would understand my point: divorce is not the end of the world. Sometime, good comes out of the bad situations and may be this is the time for you to move on. First few months after the divorce would be worst; you would think about your husband all the time but eventually whole thing would come to a pass.

My last advice to you, until I have more for you in the morning; don’t listen to Indian hillbillies!

Hey Emma , you will do well to listen to Uncle HP aka Hacked Penis....he is rather harmless really....and got plenty of experience , being divorced once or twice for his inability to perform certain vital functions that...you know..women ideally expect from their husbands....

These days , poor old Uncle HP spends much of his time acting as a harmless agony uncle to young women such as yourself besides venting his vast-reservoir of impotent fury on those bloody hindians...

My first initial reaction to reading the story was...What an idiot? Dump him. But then i decided to rethink the whole issue through.

Like our most cliched quote goes ``tali do hathoon say bajti hai`` (a clap only happens with two hands). If there`s a Ying, there has to be a Yang. Questions that came to my mind were: ``Why was he so happy to parade you around?``. From my limited experience, guys really don`t do that, unless they`re really proud of their fiances or are in love with them. Ego is not that big a factor (IMHO) as you might think. If he seemed happy. than he must have been happy that you were in his life.

So you guys got married. What changed? Did you guys stop caring about the other, the same way. Did you whine too much? Marriage does mean that you WILL Start taking each other for granted. It takes a lot to make marriage work. If you expected Fireworks and romances, and candlelight dinners and so forth, boy you must have been disappointed. Did you think he would take you everywhere with you, maybe even that you could help him run the company?

My advice to you would be to first get along with his family first. Somehow your patronizing attitude is not the most conducive towards resolving this issue. So you`re an American. BIG DEAL! Get off the high horse. Either you shouldn`t have accepted a desi, but now since you have, learn what moves him rather than expecting him to change for you. When you join a new company, you don`t tell your bosses what to do. You lie low till you`re a part of the organization and then you propose your changes. I wonder what would happen if a newbie comes to a company and tells the boss, you`re an idiot and that`s not the way to do things? That`s basically the situation in a Pakistani household. Your in-laws are the CEO and you`re telling your CEO that you dont` know how to run things.

Also, See what problems have to be resolved? Ever thought of asking him why he wants to leave you. Ask nicely. A whiny tone is not the way to go. It drives a man away. Neither is constant badgering. SMS/email him that you`d like to talk to him and that he should call you when he`s not busy. Keep at it on a periodic basis until he complies and he will. Periodic does not mean everyday btw. Tell him you were thinking of him, that you miss YOUR Hubby and ask him what you have to change (and perhaps why he wants you to change) and what you want him to change in return. Read between the lines. Men are usually very hesitant at telling their real reasons.

Third, you don`t run to your previous company for advice when you get to a new job. Every new job is difficult, but so what. You have to adapt and learn. Similarly, you have to adapt to a new culture of the place. That`s how survival occurs. Adaptation and Change. Stop looking towards your family like a child. You`re a grown woman and a Lawyer. Why do you need these crutches or are you like the proverbial spoilt child ``It`s my party and i`ll cry if i want to`` kinda person. Take your life in your hands and stop running to others to help you resolve your own crises.

The woman is the head of the household in the desi culture? A new wife carries a lot of expectations on her shoulders. More than the husband, she is to be the one who has to be the `SuperWoman` in handling the household, children, guests, husband, everything in fact.

By the way, i don`t think your hubby`s on an Ego trip. I just think he`s finding it hard to communicate with you. Maybe he`s even hurt. Don`t know. No man ever runs away (especially one whose a successful business man) just like that.

and one more thing. Divorce is the easy way out. Haven`t you seen Americans. 50% divorce rate. You marry. You find out your hubby likes Marlboroughs more than Dunhills, you divorce the guy. That`s the psyche there.

You can try it out...but what i think:

1. Stop thinking you`re the martyr and how much you gave up for this guy and marriage.

2. Stop being the typical American ``EDUCATED`` Woman and actually find out what this marriage requires. Americans are notorious for being selfish and not looking at what the world requirements are. Try to be a little more Paki.

I wish you luck in whatever decision you take. Love does conquer all and if there`s a WILL to change things, than things WILL Change. See if you have it.

Dear Emma:

<< Belonging to an educated family unlike my in-laws (just rags to riches) I have a sophisticated way of doing things. It may seem normal to many of you but having three course meals with starters is not a trend with my in laws! They labelled me too modern and outgoing. New York maybe in America but for everyone but my in laws, they think it is in Pind Dhadan Khan. >>

Is it possible that this attitude of yours is one of the many reasons rupturing your marriage?? Three course meals with starters as a daily domestic routine really don’t seem normal to me. I can guarantee that it doesn’t seem normal to the overwhelming majority of the Pakistanis.
Three course meals with starters, two, if not three times a day, is not only gluttonous, it will surely make one weigh over 100 kgs in 6 months time. I hope [and assume] you are not obese.

Don’t you think that comments like these would repel most regardless of the gender of the addressee?

<< When I asked my brother what would happen if I decide to leave Jawad and how my decision would affect his marriage, he replied, “I love my wife and two daughters but I also love you, if you come back. She goes back!``>>

Your family supposed to be sophisticated!? The mindset of your brother vividly shows the level of sophistication in your family.

<< Yes I made the mistake of getting married in a “Watta Satta”. >>

Romair has already explained this stupid concept of Watta Satta. Your case cannot be sorted under this caption.

Finally, this is your version of the story. Would you like to add anything, I repeat any single thing that even you might have done wrong?

Are you Insane? The details available are not enough to have a decision.
Confused: Probably, if you have to make an opinion out of this write-up.
Snobbish: Sure. I can bet about it.

Take care

The following comes to you ex gratia courtesy of DOCTOR BeeJay. (If it tastes more bitter compared to the normal dosages that I administer, sorry about that, but most EFFECTIVE medicines unfortunately are that way.)

Prescription:

1) Get this through your head very clearly - if you lived in USA and were brought up and educated under our educational system, you ARE an American inside (no matter what passport you carry or whether you cover your head or not) and you will always value your individual freedoms, no matter what baggage (emotional, cultural, whatever) the people around have been saddling you up with.

2) Dump the dork. Don’t even think about it for one minute!

3) Dump everybody else that advises you otherwise. (I am VERY serious.)

4) Make something of your life on your own. (Yes, you can do it!)

5) Become an example so others can develop some courage by watching your successful recovery from this condition, which should NEVER have been allowed to progress to this stage.

Diagnosis:

1) You are not insane; just stuck in an insane asylum.

2) The bozos around you need to come in for an evaluation right away (but are highly unlikely to do so).

---

Notes:

Diagnosis no.2 also applies to #15 “HP”, #23 “Romair”, and #26 “Baal”

#11 “Freethinker”: You were making sense until the last line. Shame on you – you KNOW two wrongs don’t make a right!

It is sad that your and his parents are not being helpul to you are your marriage. I suggest you take professional help.
- Marriage/Couples counsellor(preferrably a SAsian/Paksistani) will systematically go through and analyze your situation and tell you if you can still work out your marriage.
- Contact a SAsian community organization, they will give you support, lead you on proper direction and most importantly tell you what your options are in your current situation. This link has info about SAsian orgs across US http://www.apnaghar.org/dv/sasian.shtml.
- You have got only this life to live, nobody got any postcards from heaven or hell, so think, meditate, find out what you want to do with your life, what you want from a marriage, and if your current marriage is right for you and if can still make this marriage work.
- Divorce is not end of the world, infact it could be a start of a responsible and mature new life. It should be easy for you to get a job in US considering that you grewup in US and have a law degree, on top of it you are young and have no kids!. I hope you are legally married under US civil law(not just islamic law) then it will cost him dearly to get a divorce in US, make him pay through his nose.
- Don`t be desperate, regain some sanity and selfesteem. Think for your self. Family and community is of no consequence and use if it could not help you in time of your crisis. Spend time with your friends, socialize...

Hi Emma, you sound so sad. You must be so angry, to be sharing your situation with strangers on chowk. I think you do know what you want to do, but I just want to add that people do not just change unless they have psychotherapy or a religious revelation of some sort. Neither seems to be likely, so make your decision, because life is passing you by.

First thing,as a psychiatrist I can tell you that you are not insane(although this term is not used in Psychiatry)
This is the story of many Pakistani/Indian girls born and brought up in western/europian countries.
Real problem is the clash of cultures/values-children are becoming scape-goats of parents` wish to cling to their ``original`` cultural/religeous values and reaping the fruits of western materialism at the same time.
Forget about the ``satta-watta``thing and treat marriage as marriage which is a contract betwen two consenting adults.
Marital counselling or any other professional help to keep the marriage alive will only work if your husband is also willing.
If you have to take decision on your own,tell your brother and parents that it has nothing to do with your Bhabi and that you won`t go back to them and can look after yourself.
If you see no hope of reviving it dont wait for too long and start afresh.

dear emma,

..........look at all the good people on chowk who are giving you all kinds of advice ......... their responses are a lot more entertaining than your ``dear abby`` letter and gives some insight into the fruits and nuts who inhabit the chowk ............ god knows, i have often wondered about my own sanity - no normal person gets up on saturday morning to argue with cyber ghosts ............

........ personally, i think you should listen to zahraj - the woman seems to have a good head on her shoulders .........

ana #29: Marriage is not something one should just jump in and out of, at a whim. It is serious business. At least for me. And it does take work. A lot of work. Something I was completely unaware of before I got married. One has to actually be married to gain that experience. It is a bit difficult to gain it second hand. One cannot learn how to swim, by just watching swimmers. One has to jump into the pool, one`s self................

Based on this, I think one should be very very careful before advising someone to just, ``dump the guy or girl.`` As a bachelor, I used to say the same thing, since my image of marraige was permanent bliss and happiness. That is easier said than done. And considering the case described here, a divorce could have reprucussions far beyond just the individual herself. Too many, ``gung-ho`` people are quick to jump to this conclusion. And end up messing up the situation even more.

If there is physical abuse involved, one should leave immediately. If there are physical affairs involved, one should consider leaving, and if one cannot forgive the person, then one should leave. However, other than that, one really has to think about it. ``There is no love,`` ``He doesn`t come home enough,`` ``His parents are rags to riches,`` etc. etc. are things that can be worked through.

And, in this case, she is educated, she has parents who are supporting her, she is in the USA, etc. etc. i.e. she has a certain amount of security, hence they guy cannot just destroy her, outright...............if she is confused, despite being relatively secure personally, then that means there is a chance to work it out..........

The writer is, herself, saying,``Perhaps I`m weak and confused, but I still love him.`` This obviously indicates a confused state of mind. Someone under a lot of pressure. Who is not sure what to do. In such a state of mind, to just say to the person, ``Dump the guy,`` which could set of a chain reaction, is not correct advice.

I think they should keep trying to work on it. And if she does dump him, then as I said, ``That is also a road you can try. However, judging by how quickly you made your initial decision to get married, you should be very careful in taking such a step............And be 100% sure that you want to take it............``

One should be extremely cautious and very very careful in telling someoone to leave a marriage. Especially on a website, where one doesn`t have all the facts, and the other person is in a confused state of mind....................

a few points here:

i felt this at the very beginning and i will say this now. i am not certain that this should have been brought to the front page. there was another article not too long ago where someone wrote about her marriage. people who do expose their personal lives, especially intimate or lack of intimate relations are going to receive a gamut of responses. . . and as the writer of this article will have found by now, they are not positive ones.

if the writer just wanted to have a hundred listening ears or so, again, at chowk, we aren`t just going to listen. this is an interact board, there will be plenty of interaction here. and again, writers who don`t write about their personal lives end up having their personal lives thrashed and trashed at this site.

the question was ``am i going insane?`` the answer was not necessarily ``dump the MC!`` (yes, i realize no one actually called him that). but again, that was the response that married people and single people gave, because they picked up on certain phrases more than others. emma`s words are good enough for them. i don`t believe i advocated either leaving or staying because quite simply it isn`t my place to do so. drawing from what the writer has said, i asked questions that would require plenty of thought before making such a serious decision. we are not experts here, and what we know here is superficial at best.

and another point, ``intelligent`` and ``successful`` people don`t always have all the answers and they do have emotions which wreak havoc with them. the writers, doctors, artists who have committed suicide, or remain clinically or manic depressed. . .just because emma is a lawyer who should know something about logical and analytical mind processes doesn`t mean that she cannot be affected by her emotions. i DO believe that the man asked her to marry him. and she said yes for various reasons. he asked for the commitment, he should shoulder the work and responsibility that comes with it, as should emma. and contrary to romarian thinking, problems such as the differences between families are not that easy to work through. i`ve seen that myself. but is that the reason that he wants her to leave him? we don`t really know why HE wants her to leave him. and that has been the weakest point in this article. that we are to infer. this obviously is not a balanced view, and the responses have been less than balanced themselves. and we are not talking about national politics and policies here. we`re talking about sexual politics, and intimate relations between two people.

is this real or is this fiction? is this live or is it memorex? the person who wrote the article knows this a helluva lot more than we do. it was and it was not. . . and if anything has made me think or wonder about this, it`s how the subject of marriage has been treated here and elsewhere on chowk. is this worth the exposition?

emma:

my two bits

it is your body and it is your life...get some good professional help or counselling

lve

t

In addition to my previous note, I would also say a few more things before I am out of here:

- Next time, do not ever promote your degree since it makes you look not only dumb but also silly. If you had that much respect and value for that degree then you would not have jumped on the first proposal of a ``successful businessman`` with dubious character. It is apparent that you had least respect for your degree. I had recently posted an article in my ilog where an average but well educated Pakistani woman scientist/researcher had included a clause in her marital contract that she intended to continue her work after marriage. This woman had not only dignity but also self-respect. Sorry, your article does not reveal any self-respect. Keeping that in mind, isn`t it unfair on your behalf to expect that from your husband because you keep his bed warm (one of the major reasons)?

- Everyone has his or her own life style. I agree that it can be very difficult if your in-laws are from different economic strata. Based on your story, it seems that you are living in a joint family. If not, then why would you care if your in-laws wear pants on the top and vice versa? Do not visit them frequently. Keep reasonable distance from them. If they have issues in accepting you then completely cut off.

- Using education or to put it crudely, a degree, in these times may be a temporary refuge. You need to conduct some introspection on who you are and where you want to be. You are definitely not in love with this man because of who he is. Why lie to yourself?
Had you been in love with this man then you would have had something decent to say on those lines. Apparently, you were in love with his status and his looks. Sorry, you wasted your education.

- Lastly, Syeds are no exception in any regard. Thanks for bursting the bubble of many Syeds who consider themselves a superior breed. There can be debauch men in both Syeds and non-Syeds. So you did not gain any sawab by marrying a debauch Syed. Probably, Muslims should start raising awareness on the presumed piety of the Syeds. The local mosques should be training muslims to watch out for these flase impressions!

With due respect, there is nothing in your article that makes me think that you are educated in the true sense. Yes, you have a degree like 1000s and probably 10,000s of women. What`s the big deal?

This was a harsh post. Sometimes, one has to conduct introspection after getting a serious jolt. If you have been taking life pretty easy then certain things may never stir up critical thinking. Probably, it`s time to take the plunge.

By the way, both River Dance and Chitty Chitty Bang Bang will be out this week or so. I hope you enjoy them and have a fresh mind to resolve your issues.

Best Wishes for a bright future.

Emma:


You are not only a brilliant lawyer ( contrary to the self-effacing intro) , you are a brilliant `writer` as well.

Let me `explain`:
You laid the trap so nicely and all the westernised scum & flotsam made a beeline to it.

You must be laughing silly.

``Am I insane?`` Emma Nisa ? ``Umm-i Nisa``? Mother of Women.
Just thinking. Just thinking and enjoying the sight of flies stuck in the honey.

It seems a lot of Ba Ba Blacksheep are not that net-savvy.

I will not dish out any advice to Emma because of this acute sense that this board is looking like a day time TV talk show where Jerry Springer`s audience is yelling and screaming and giving their advice to a bimbo sitting on the stage about which way she should make her decision.

But I will pick on one point ZahraJ brought up - the mistaken belief in superior bloodline or piety of Syeds to the point that they would not want their children to marry non-Syeds.

This is one of the most wretched and disgusting caste system in practice today. And to see the western educated young men and women succumbing to the same is truly baffeling. I have heard of the cases where the girls never got married because their parents could not find them a suitable syed.

Here is what I have to say to Syeds: Your alleged lineage not only goes all the way to Prophet (saw) but to Abu Jahal as well, who belonged to the tribe of Quraish too.

The story is real or not it is has many loop holes...

If I am not wrong than `watta satta` could be a staunch marriage relationship when double marriages take place at same time. Whereas writer first claims herself victim of ``watta satta`` then says that she got married after proposal laid by brother of Bhabi much after her brother`s marriage.

So that time her parents must have observed the family as if they are compatible even not for their daughter but in accordance to general observation of extended family life style.

Dear Mother of Woman,

......... now that malik and echo and romair are here, this board will become a lot more interesting ............ i bet my bippy that pretty soon god, his prophet and his wives and concubines will soon be dragged into this fray ........... please be prepared to get an earful on aisha, khadeeja, miriam, zainab, hafsa and the rest of the harem ..........

.......... my bet, as usual, is on romair to win this battle ..............

... carry on......

It`s a tragedy that children born and raised in one country are made to feel that they really belong to another.

Such double-dipping can work extremely well for a man (boy - for, most such men will never mature on a normal time-line)

For a woman it cannot work, unless she also possesses a biological fetish for sexual slavery.

Re: # 39

One could have ignored this immature one. I would have responded with much more colorful langiage, except here there is a young girl also listening ...why do I care? ... may be because I do not have a daughter.

One will find on AM/FM dial in any metro in US and probably now in India as well, 100s of these divorce lawyers and councilors screaming dumping thier significant others and also dumping the content of their purse on their table. Deeper introspection will reveal that one needs to dump the thought tumor which leads to pain and disease in our relationship to the world. What we are seeking is not outside. Outside is not random things that happen to us, it is reflection of what we create inside. This inside creation happens for few on soccer field, others on hatha-yoga mat and few others in beautiful lisp code.

Go and read 26 again.

For others who think this should have been addressed to Dear Abby:

A lttle peek into childhood of Saddam, Stalin, Bin-Ladden, Bush and even your esteemed Chiknah or Indira Gandhi and you will see abuse and parental disfunctional marriage (man-woman relationship) and in many cases their own. To solve world`s problems created by these minds loving man-woman relationship and healthy family needs to be promoted. A paid consultant will produce 3000 pages and make $300K in two weeks but will not address root cause of disfunctional marriage and family behind every Columbine School tragedy.

malik99: 49

And it certainly IS a Jerry-springer FrontPage now for sure. Just see how the munaafique & muurtids are proving their `maaadernity` & `free-thoughtingness`.

As I `ve always maintained the Ba Ba Blacksheep have proven to be the billi-kaa-goos of Pakistan. Never achieved anything worthwhile in their miserable life.

Whenever ``women`` , ``Islam`` or ``muslim`` article appear here it is smart to let the ``free-thought` and muunafiques & muurtids spleen their bile.

That is much more fun than ``replying``. It is turning into a show now.

Never in the history of mankind so many khisyaani bhillis have noached so few khambaas
with such speed and ferocity.

bas yehi baaqi tha: the ignorant men of chowk.

this board will now take a plunge into the gluteus maximus of hateful people such as echoboom who will pronounce from there no one else but himself to be the standard-bearer of chowk and pak sar zameen.

these mentalities are what anyone with a modicum of sanity should keep away from. he speaks of bile, when it is there for everyone to see that his bile doesn`t just drip. . .it pours. . .and its toxicity follows from board to board. such a miserable life. the poster-child for what hate can do to a person. instant karma might even pass him by.

I read your article - and understand only a little of the emotional turmoil you must feel inside you. Perhaps once there was love in your husbands heart for you but you deserve to be loved for your spirit and truth. I do not think he has given the person you are justice.

It does take two to tango but his callous wish to only leave - well, I think you should be strong and look beyond the need to be with someone - although it may seem to you as though you `need` anothers strength to bolster you the TRUTH is you need NO ONE but you and your faith.

Sing the song that is in your heart and you will find that you communicate to the universe and not just some man who has not yet awakened his soul and is busy living only for the material.

Have faith in children, in the beauty that surrounds you, in yourself. Dont wait - seize life by the throat and live it! :)

and who knows - in the process you may `discover` a real PCharming!

Best of luck.

Dear Emma,

....... i don`t mean to belittle your pain and suffering, but in today`s nytimes kristoff writes about the very real tragedy of women in pakistan............. maybe you can draw some consolation and inspiration from the trials and tribulations of mukhtaran bibi :


``In Pakistan, if a woman reports a rape, four Muslim men must generally act as witnesses before she can prove her case. Otherwise, she risks being charged with fornication or adultery - and suffering a public whipping and long imprisonment.

Mukhtaran is a hero. She suffered what in her society was the most extreme shame imaginable - and emerged as a symbol of virtue. She has taken a sordid story of perennial poverty, gang rape and judicial brutality and inspired us with her faith in the power of education - and her hope. ``

``http://www.nytimes.com/2005/03/05/opinion/05kristof.html?hp

............ compared to mukhtaran bibi`s ordeal, your problem seems trivial, doesn`t it ? ........... i am sure with folks like romair, malik and echo offering you advice you will be just fine :-)

I think it is a bit dangerous to play psychiatrist on sensitive issues like this. Everyone is going to let out their own internal feelings, joys and frustrations and advise the person. I am not even sure if it is a good idea to seek advice in this manner.......

Those who have viewed or been in good marriages, will probably say, ``give it one more chance.`` Those who have viewed or been in abusive marriages, might say, ``get out immediately.`` Those who have not been married, at all, might say, ``if the person isn`t your ideal, find someone else.``

It seems like the writer can probably get a divorce anytime she wants. She has suggested that her husband keeps saying this to her, himself. It doesn`t seem like she is being physically harmed. She seems confused and under emotional stress. In such a situation, I think one should be cautious of quickly jumping to or suiggesting divorce. Since, it is quite hard to undo a divorce.....specifically within a Muslim marriage.........

At the very least, people advising her to, ``leave,`` should perhaps take it easy, and suggest to her to visit a professional psychiatrist first, and get some professional advice. Preferably a desi one, who can understand the cultural issues involved............

Where is Shankar when he is needed. He seems to show up everywhere he is not needed. And never shows up where he could be of some use...............

Subedar

Little Beta Emma, what I wonder is …

Before your in-laws became your susral they had already been in-laws of your brother and your relatives for some years. Which means, neither Jawad nor his family were any stranger to you and your family.
You knew or at least supposed to know the level of sophistication, intellectual standard, monetary affluence, family values, everything of your susral walas along with the number of course meals they are used to.
Then why did you approve such a “backward “ husband and family to start with?

I mean it was not at all a blind date, you opted all this voluntarily and gladly because … according to my expert opinion … in some aspects you were slightly superior to them and intentionally or unconsciously thought that you could keep them under your high heels.

Jawad initial display of satisfaction inflated your head even further.

Moreover you have a penchant to exploit your genitals as reward-penalty mechanism … to use sex as a whip and candy.

But, now after a while, Jawad has lost interest in you … primarily because of your high nose … you have lost your charm and sheen for him. He has started writing you on his left ball and discovered that life could be lived rather enjoyed even without having you around. Something you hadn’t expected at all and have extreme difficulties to digest … you have got a sort of emotional constipation.

You would have no problem dissolving this marriage had it been your initiative. Now you feel rejected by the one who should have considered himself lucky to have you. Jawad has turned the table on you.

You don’t want to leave, because it would mean defeat from someone who is in your weird world inferior to you, but you want to continue only on your own conditions. Jawad don’t offer you that. You are ambivalent. No desperate. Try to avenge, teach them a lesson … don’t know how to do … out of that frustration came this lousy piece.

And Emma beta, it is only meant to serve the following purposes …
1. To demonstrate to your hubby and his family that you are capable enough to strip them naked … on internet … wow
2. Try to show them the huge difference in the leagues you two belong to individually as well as family wise … wow … Jawad and his parents should “realize” what special pearl they have got
3. To convey the message that their daughter will be in trouble had they not “mend” their ways

I am pretty doubtful if it will help.

So what should you do?
Should I be honest … my sincere most advice to you would be … come down to earth … give respect first before demanding respect … don’t underestimate people … try to be insaan … don’t play over smart …

A bit of humility, a little bit modesty … and everything will be fine.
You don’t seem to be totally without brain … though I am not sure about the size and quality of heart … have some cardiac surgery, some emotional transplantation and everything will be alright.

Emma,

Welcome to Chowk. Your piece brings up many good points.

There are male interactors who will try to point out that there are women who suffer more than you. These are the same men who have not professed lifting a single finger to ameliorate the eco/pol/soc/cult factors that lead to the exploitation of women. Then there are men who will tell you to stop being so ``selfish`` because having expectations of equality, mutuality and respect as agreed on b/n both partners is ``class`` discrimination. To the latter I will point out that many of us were/are raised by men coming from working class backgrounds who are the exemplar of support and love-and are feminists.

Wanting and having a life and a partner who works with you towards respect, love and mutuality is a worthy goal-one that every human being is entitled to. Dont let anyone tell you otherwise. Get counseling alone if your spouse wont come with you. Hopefully he will come around. As others have suggested, the answers will come from you and your spouse.

Good luck and all the best.

Re: # 55

Ana,

I`m praying Karma doesnt pass Depends Sahib by but bestows him his rightful place....amoebadom....if one fails to suceed, one must try try again! ;)

Madame Emma Nisa:

With due respect, your case is closed. No more discussions on those lines. I am sure you must have appreciated some points and kicked out others. Your board will be taken over now.

Ta Ta...

Since bro` Hamidm referred to this story, therefore I decided to post it here. I love this guy`s writings. It`s men like him that make me ``danwa` dol/double minded`` on my singlehood stance.

When Rapists Walk Free
By NICHOLAS D. KRISTOF

Published: March 5, 2005
One of the gutsiest people on earth is Mukhtaran Bibi. And after this week, she`ll need
that courage just to survive.

Mukhtaran, a tall, slim young woman who never attended school as a child, lives in a poor
and remote village in the Punjab area of Pakistan. As part of a village dispute in 2002,
a tribal council decided to punish her family by sentencing her to be gang-raped. She
begged and cried, but four of her neighbors immediately stripped her and carried out the
sentence. Then her tormenters made her walk home naked while her father tried to
shield her from the eyes of 300 villagers. Mukhtaran was meant to be so shamed that she
would commit suicide. But in a society where women are supposed to be soft and helpless,
she proved indescribably tough, and she found the courage to live. She demanded the
prosecution of her attackers, and six were sent to death row.She received $8,300 in compensation and used it to start two schools in the village, one for boys and one for girls, because she feels that education is the best way to change attitudes like those that led to the attack on her. Illiterate herself, she then enrolled in her own elementary school.

I visited Mukhtaran in her village in September and wrote a column about her. Readers
responded with an avalanche of mail, including 1,300 donations for Mukhtaran totaling
$133,000. The money arrived just in time, for Mukhtaran`s schools had run out of funds. She had sold her family`s cow to keep them open because she believes so passionately in the redemptive power of education. Now that cash from readers has put the schools on a sound financial footing again. And Mercy Corps, a first-rate American aid group already active in Pakistan, has agreed to assist Mukhtaran in spending the money wisely. The next step will be to start an ambulance service for the area so sick or injured villagers can get to a hospital.

Down the road, Mukhtaran says, she will try to start her own aid group to battle honor
killings. And even though she lives in a remote village without electricity, she has
galvanized her supporters to launch a Web site: www.mukhtarmai.com. (Although her legal
name is Mukhtaran Bibi, she is known in the Pakistani press by a variant, Mukhtar Mai).
Until two days ago, she was thriving. Then - disaster.

A Pakistani court overturned the death sentences of all six men convicted in the attack
on her and ordered five of them freed. They are her neighbors and will be living
alongside her. Mukhtaran was in the courthouse and collapsed in tears, fearful of the
risk this brings to her family.

``Yes, there is danger,`` she said by telephone afterward. ``We are afraid for our lives,
but we will face whatever fate brings for us.``

Mukhtaran, not the kind of woman to squander money on herself by flying, even when she
has access to $133,000, took an exhausting 12-hour bus ride to Islamabad yesterday to
appeal to the Supreme Court. Mercy Corps will help keep her in a safe location, and those
donations from readers may keep her alive for the time being. But for the long term,
Mukhtaran has always said she wants to stay in her village, whatever the risk, because
that`s where she can make the most difference.

I had planned to be in Pakistan this week to write a follow-up column about Mukhtaran.
But after a month`s wait, the Pakistani government has refused to give me a visa,
presumably out of fear that I would write more about Pakistani nuclear peddling. (Hmm, a
good idea. ...) Mukhtaran`s life illuminates what will be the central moral challenge of this century, the brutality that is the lot of so many women and girls in poor countries. For starters, because of inattention to maternal health, a woman dies in childbirth in the developing world every minute.

In Pakistan, if a woman reports a rape, four Muslim men must generally act as witnesses
before she can prove her case. Otherwise, she risks being charged with fornication or
adultery - and suffering a public whipping and long imprisonment. Mukhtaran is a hero. She suffered what in her society was the most extreme shame imaginable - and emerged as a symbol of virtue. She has taken a sordid story of perennial poverty, gang rape and judicial brutality and inspired us with her faith in the power of education - and her hope.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/03/05/opinion/05kristof.html
E-mail: nicholas@nytimes.com

Re: # 59

........... from the peanut gallery

wow!.... now we are getting somewhere ......

p.s. i showed this letter to mrs hamidm and she thinks it is a hoax......... and who am i to question her woman`s intuition ........ mrs hamidm does not have any use for the internet and the cell phone and the other day expressed great surprise at the news that the soviet union had fallen apart, but she knows people ................ ``no self-respecting educated modern woman would put up with crap like this unless she is a nutcase - there is something fishy about ms. emma whatshername ........it is not as if she is being threatened and abused by her husband ...............and what are you doing reading crap like this - i thought you were doing research on kitchenaid appliances``, she admonished with a crinkle of that botox-rejuvnated nose ............ to add insult to injury, my daughter chimed in with, ``abu, pakistani men are such loosers, but the women deserve them``.............. and then they took off to the mall to buy yet more shoes leaving me to ponder emma`s dilemma .................

I don`t think you are insane. However, I question the sanity of some of the interactions you have received! I find it interesting that many of the presumably Pakistani folks who have responded to your post have chosen a triage approach, if you will, to your situation. Instead of offering constructive comments or advice, they choose to point out that there are people worse off than you in the world.

That is hardly fair.

My cultural awareness of Pakistani-Muslim family values is somewhat limited. That said, it is my opinion that if your husband wants a divorce, he should have to file it himself.

You mentioned your husband`s business trips to Amsterdam, casino memberships, etc.. All of these are indicators that he has a lifestyle that condones sexual promiscuity. I think 8 months of abstinence is a good thing in your case. Now that sufficient time has passed since you have been to bed with him, you can go forward and get an HIV test and a full battery of STD tests and have faith in the results.

You deserve better.

Good luck.

We are all entitled to respect from our partners. Yes, you may have made mistakes in your choices, but that`s no reason for you to be punished for the rest of your life. Good luck with whatever you decide, but the worst you can do is nothing at all.

Ref Romair #58

[... I think one should be cautious of quickly jumping to or suiggesting divorce. Since, it is quite hard to undo a divorce.....specifically within a Muslim marriage.........]

It is not all that hard to undo an Islamic divorce. From what I have read, the woman needs to marry another person, have that marriage consummated, get divorced from that husband, and she is then free to marry her first husband. I read somewhere here on Chowk how a mother-in-law, upon reconciliation between her son and divorced daughter-in-law, had her gardener marry the girl, ensured that the gardener consummated the marriage, had him divorce the girl, and then had her son marry his ex-wife again.

So, the procedure seems to be simple: Emma flies off to Pakistan; her husband Jawad sends her an SMS on her cellphone stating ``Talaq, talaq, talaq``; Emma marries the first man off the street (or the club if she wants a person with a higher socio-economic standing) and goes into a hotel room with him (her choice whether it is a five-star hotel or the local No-Tell Motel) and gets laid; has her new-found husband tell her ``talaq, talaq, talaq``; and flies back to the US and has a local mullah officiate at a nikkah with Jawad.

I am NOT insensitive to poor Emma`s plight but YOUR comment about how hard it is to undo a Muslim divorce is just plain wrong as I have outlined the process for doing it.

[Where is Shankar when he is needed. He seems to show up everywhere he is not needed. And never shows up where he could be of some use...............]

The Headshrinker will claim he is driving his Jaguar around on Altamont Street in Bombay and trying to counsel his old classmates the Ambanis now that Reliance Telecom has been found to be liable for hundreds of crores of rupees for illegally routing international calls as local calls on India`s BSNL network. THAT kind of ruling is certainly more traumatic than a simple case of spousal abuse and would take precedence in the Headshrinker`s busy practice.