Intimacies Remapped

Re: HN # 53

Harish, I will stay with the progress of this article and its interacts, because the experience has been highly educational and eludicating and it promises to be more educational in the future.

As to the value of my voice, it is worthless in this case, because I have nothing to add, to this debate, of anything of much significance. My idea of India is limited to the glances at newspapers and TV reports and secondary travel monologues. What I know of India is more a perception; a view, which is not necessarily India or Indian in its true sense. I would readily refrain from passing a comment on the nature of what it means to be Indian in India of today, in the contempory political-social idiom, because I am acutely aware that there exists a huge chasm between our common knowledge of each other and what we know of each other is nothing more than a one dimensional vision clouded by our personal myopias of rancour and bitterness towards each other. I would like to think that this gulf of ignorance can be bridged with a bit of enlightment, but I realize that it will not happen unless we are able and capable of growing beyond the stunted nature of our emotions, which have been, and continue to be, girded by our mutual historic experiences.

Parenthetically speaking, when Neville Chamberlain died in November 1940, Winston Churchill offered a few words to the memory of his departed political foe. His words were instructive, because he compared history to an old lady and using that metaphor, he said that history, like an old lady stumbles upon a path of memory holding up a lamp, with which she tries to revive the glories and passions of the past. In a way, we are not too dissimilar to that old lady, because we are so immeshed in the quicksands of history, that we have never been able to out live history and thus, forget its passions and glories. We all cherish a past and we dilgently strive to recreate that past, but what we often forget and care not to be bother with, is that opposing interpretations of history are just the two sides of the same coin. The glory of one interpretation is another`s interpretation of infamy and the passion of one is the sufferance of another and as long as we cling to this emotional crutch, we will never move away from the limitations of our common angst.

I am not advocating the denial of history or the historic evolution, which influences and guides us helter-skelter, but I am arguing for the reason and not the rationalization, which suggests that history should teach us the maturity to progress without asking us to subsitute its lessons as a justifications for our contempory follies. As long as we learn from history and what we learn is to treat history with a dispassion, we will surely break free of our emotional historic chains, which bind us to our personal stakes of prejudices. I do not think, and then again I might be wrong in saying this, that we have quite achieved this feat, because history, in our experiences, teaches us to nurse a grudge and wait for vengence and not to forget as we would hope to be forgiven ourselves for our own past trepasses. As long as we use the rationalization of history as a reason for our actions of misdeeds and wrongs, we will never learn that rationalization is never a reason and reason should never rationalize a wrong no matter how justified it might be historically.

Ciao

Harish, I don`t think India is getting more polarized that it ever was.

The animosity between Hindus and Muslims has existed for ages. This is nothing new.

The most important thing is to not allow these feelings to manifest themselves as physical violence.

Re: # 52
late 20s, early 30s...I am your generation, but my India is stuck in another time because I left. What I do love about India is that always, people who have had the drive and the ability have been able to make a success of themselves, even if not in the regular engineering, medicine fields so dear to the middle classes. I remember I was struck by jang`s background too once. Compared with the background of most Pakistani chowkies, it does stand out.

Simply superb Harish!

#51 by HP

[But, we have some optimist who w/o knowing what actually is taking place in India, paint a rosy picture of communal relations.]

I assume you are talking about veeresh. In case you didn’t know, he still lives in India, just as Harish does and I do. So tomorrow, if I write a flattering picture of communal relations here, will that mean that everything is fine and dandy?

I have more Muslim friends than Hindu and I come from what is labeled as a communally sensitive city, Hyderabad. Whenever a riot breaks out in any other part of India, the security forces here get nervous.

The truth is that relations between the two communities are neither as bad as you seem to imagine nor as rosy as many of us would want them to be.

As someone who has seen a fair share of communal violence, I feel it is difficult to say for sure how and why a riot starts. It can be as minor a provocation as a dispute between a Muslim shopkeeper and a Hindu shopkeeper. It often snowballs into communal violence when more people become involved and in the heat of the moment, any one of them imagines a perceived slight to his/her religion (something like calling a Muslim a pig).

Prejudices are quite common even among city folk, but that has never prevented most Hindus and Muslims from leading peaceful lives. My Muslim friends often joke about my vegetarianism and in turn, I joke about their “purdah-ed” women, but that hasn’t affected our friendships in the least. I speak not just for myself, but a whole lot of other Hyderabadis.

It is not the prejudice per se, but a rash of inexplicably bad temper that often causes communal riots, at least in India. Of course, at times, systematic indoctrination can also be a cause, but the percentage of people who would be willing to lend themselves to such manipulation are miniscule and most wouldn’t care less.

The fate of Hindus and Muslims is so intertwined that it is difficult for one community to imagine life without the other. Without the Muslim flower-seller, most Hindus will be hard-pressed to perform even the simple act of offering flowers to their gods. Without the largely Hindu buyers, many successful Muslim businesses would never flourish.

While I do not deny that there are constant attempts to drive a wedge between the two communities, the fact is they are too integrated and their lives too intertwined for anyone to really succeed.

``Now India only has 2 to 3 % Brahmin! That’s a Good one. In that case, rest of the 97 to 98% Indians are shudras``

Actually that is true. Brahmins only make up 2-3% of India`s population. And most of them have no interest in India . I am one of those 2-3%. I have more relatives outside India than in India. Thats why I find it funny when accusations about India being dominated by brahmins fly around. Truth is , the only place in India dominated by brahmins is the US Visa counters. In rural India - brahmins are almost extinct. There are more brahmins in Detroit than in Lucknow or Jaipur, for instance.

Basically - India is ruled by shudras. Modi/Advani/Thackray/Uma Bharthi....all these hindutwa guys and gals...are shudras....just a matter of different shades of shudra-hood...one more so than the other....

Vajpayee will go down in history as India`s last brahmin prime minister.

``Obviously, there is no need to remind here that only a bunch of criminals, thugs, and killers would love a leader like Modi.``

Well...5 crore Gujarathis did vote for him...so I`m assuming they are criminals , thugs and killers....all 5 crore of them..

Kabuli, Nazzz, Avenger,

Thank you for reading. I do hope to address the issues of form and content more to your satisfaction.

# 22 paindupastry,

I share your hope myself.

ana,

Thanks!

Veeresh,

I liked your secular gig on the Arabian Sea...and in my neighbourhood. Hope you read the later installments too.

nb,

Thank you for the encouragement. Yes, India has changed. But it is the pace that is mind boggling. From your generation`s station it looked like the behemoth will never ever change.... from that of mine...the speed of change is mind numbing. I am hoping to offer a strictly impressionistic, personal take on the process from inside the churner.

Feroz,

Yes. There is nothing to disagree. I do hope you stay with the progression of this work. Yours is a valuable voice.

dost-mitter,

Dost, I was waiting for you to have read it. You have done similar pieces before, and it is particularly important that I get your take on the issue. Thanks.

And yes, we have had so many discussions that finally cleave the chowk community to the two halves of status quoish nationalistic viewpoints. A slice of life piece, I hope, will help a more realistic debate. Finally, abstractions are not worth too much, especially when progress in understanding is stymied because of the anxiety of betrayal to long held, but unreviewed, views.

Please do stay with this.

Maharana,

Thank you. My pleasure.

masanamuthu,

Very true. In fact, i did myself see a lot of realities that I was not prepared for, and on this one trip itself. Many will unfold in the later part of this long work.


To everybody else on this board,

Thank you for having read this mammoth 5000 word piece. It is the longest, but I thought it set the tone perfectly for what is to follow. I did not want this to be an essay. Essays can be thought provoking, but dollops of real life helps bring in what I think, would be called a compassionate understanding of issues. Besides affording us a chance to update our understanding of the current reality.

Taking incidents or quotes from this piece alone to push one`s chosen view on scambled issues might not be so challenging, but it will definitely be less rewarding.

I liked the fact that several people on the board connected this section to their own individual experiences, like Amrita and kabuli. Besides a politically incorrect slanging match, this is also the ribaldry of young life. A parental eye cast on it will be morally outraged!

HN

Kabuli, Nazzz, Avenger,

Thank you for reading. I do hope to address the issues of form and content more to your satisfaction.

# 22 paindupastry,

I share your hope myself.

ana,

Thanks!

Veeresh,

I liked your secular gig on the Arabian Sea...and in my neighbourhood. Hope you read the later installments too.

nb,

Thank you for the encouragement. Yes, India has changed. But it is the pace that is mind boggling. From your generation`s station it looked like the behemoth will never ever change.... from that of mine...the speed of change is mind numbing. I am hoping to offer a strictly impressionistic, personal take on the process from inside the churner.

Feroz,

Yes. There is nothing to disagree. I do hope you stay with the progression of this work. Yours is a valuable voice.

dost-mitter,

Dost, I was waiting for you to have read it. You have done similar pieces before, and it is particularly important that I get your take on the issue. Thanks.

And yes, we have had so many discussions that finally cleave the chowk community to the two halves of status quoish nationalistic viewpoints. A slice of life piece, I hope, will help a more realistic debate. Finally, abstractions are not worth too much, especially when progress in understanding is stymied because of the anxiety of betrayal to long held, but unreviewed, views.

Please do stay with this.

Maharana,

Thank you. My pleasure.

masanamuthu,

Very true. In fact, i did myself see a lot of realities that I was not prepared for, and on this one trip itself. Many will unfold in the later part of this long work.


To everybody else on this board,

Thank you for having read this mammoth 5000 word piece. It is the longest, but I thought it set the tone perfectly for what is to follow. I did not want this to be an essay. Essays can be thought provoking, but dollops of real life helps bring in what I think, would be called a compassionate understanding of issues. Besides affording us a chance to update our understanding of the current reality.

Taking incidents or quotes from this piece alone to push one`s chosen view on scambled issues might not be so challenging, but it will definitely be less rewarding.

I liked the fact that several people on the board connected this section to their own individual experiences, like Amrita and kabuli. Besides a politically incorrect slanging match, this is also the ribaldry of young life. A parental eye cast on it will be morally outraged!

HN

Harish still lives in India and possibly knows the day-to-day situation more than the people living Canada, the US or in other parts of the world do. Harish writes, “India seemingly fast polarising along communal lines.” But, we have some optimist who w/o knowing what actually is taking place in India, paint a rosy picture of communal relations. What is the reason for such optimism? will come to that later. People who have some knowledge of communal relations in India also know that truck drivers and their assistants that were helping each other in pushing trucks would be quick to chop each other’s heads off and push each other over the cliff too as soon as communal riots break out in their respective areas.
I found that interesting that BJP contested last election on some development program. People really have short memories. Did Sonia Gandhi go around the country on RATH YATRA cheerleading and pep talking her troops on RSS/BJP development programs during the last elections? I do not think so. That shameful person is a casteless Sindhi, who has never set foot in a Mandir all his life. He is still fighting for Hindu Rajya on a rath!
Now India only has 2 to 3 % Brahmin! That’s a Good one. In that case, rest of the 97 to 98% Indians are shudras.

Let’s look at the optimist part.

“But why? You had assured me the deal was to be inked today.
What changed things so drastically?” Shanawaz asked the agent.
“You did not tell me you were Muslim. And you don’t look Muslim also.
You are educated too,” was the answer from Shambu, the Bihari Hindu real estate agent.”

The contrast is right there to see.

“There is a lot more interaction at a daily basis between hindus and muslims in the marketplace, in offices, in doctors` clinics and in educational institutions.”-DM

In a cosmopolitan city like Bombay, one expects people to be more knowledgeable. If a real estate agent, who probably meets a diverse group of people every day, shows such ignorance (educated Muslim!) about another community, than what do you expect in places like Jasilmir? The exchange clearly demonstrates that communities in India are moving in different direction and have very little interaction on daily basis.
People either don’t know their own country or are living in denial!

It is kind of puzzling that the much-maligned Modi still holds his position. Both RS/BJP and Congress Sarkars were unable to remove him. I can understand Congress’s dilemma. He is an elected CM, and they have to have a very good reason to remove him now. What is stopping RSS/BJP when its leaders ABV, and our casteless Sindhi have condemned Gujarat massacre on many occasions? Modi is still with RSS/BJB and can be removed thru a central committee action.
So, why they won’t remove Modi?
Modi is the most popular leader of RSS/BJP/ShivSena/VHP. The whole sangh parivar loves him for the way he masterminded the Gujarat massacre and the minute he is removed by Congress or RSS/BJP; he would emerge as the next PM candidate for India. That is not good for our Casteless Sindhi and the best course is to keep him in Gujarat and condemn Gujarat massacre whenever it is politically expedient.
Obviously, there is no need to remind here that only a bunch of criminals, thugs, and killers would love a leader like Modi.

nice article:

Not just intimacies, there are a lot of things that gets remapped as you grow with time and realise the facts of life are different than the ideal / utopian childhood..

I`d think growth of the BJP / fundamental feelings is directly related to the hypocrisies practised in the name of secularism.

The real meaning of secularism is to separate religion away from the government, not to bow to the superstitions and whims and fancies of every religion. Till now the government was bending over backwards to appease the minorities, now the majority wants the same treatment too..

I agree with comment number 47 too. If some religion is not compatible with secularism, then it should better get reformed to survive in multi-cultural / pluralistic societies....

Re: # 46

``drink with them, eat with them, visit night clubs with them, visit their homes and invite them into theirs - and then go and vote for the BJP. ``

so whats wrong in that? Normally, for a upper caste urban hindu there are only 2 options Congress or BJP. When Congress talks about affirmative action and reservation for Muslims what else is he supposed to do? He may vote for BJP to protect his educational/work interests, not because he wants to incite rioting against he Muslims. And the same can be said about people belonging to other religion/caste/class.


``Yet they contribute to the climate of hatred in which it is possible for a Modi here and a Thakray there to use any opportunity to trigger riots against innocent Indians whom they consider `babar ki aulad`. ``

BJP in the last election moved very far away from the temple issue, it was fighting on development plank. Even though incorrect, ``indian shining`` was the message they wanted to put forth not ``Mandir wahi banega``. Even during assembly elections they have stayed away from contentious issues. Regarding Modi, yes if he wanted he could have stopped the riots, but the people of Gujarat and India have already given their verdict. It is the indian justice system that is too weak and corrupt to bring any criminal to justice. Thats why you have Bhagat, Sajjan Kumar, Modi, Lalu, Shahhbuddin ruling us.

Harish,

This was a wonderful and a moving narrative closer to reality at home. Thanks for sharing these personal moments with everyone here.

Adios

Nobody addresses the fundamental problem. I can think of only two reasons: 1. ignorance and 2. liberal peer-pressure for talking in vague terms.

For all the assorted intellectuals and pseudo-intellectuals here, I have the following to say:

1. Islam does not recognise the validity of ``kafir`` way of life. Inter-faith dialogue and crap like that is a mere waste of time. Islam depicts ``boot-parast`` peoples in worst possible terms.
2. Dawah (Evangelical activities) is obligatory for all Muslims.

(1) applies to both Judaism and Xtianity also but (2) does not apply to Judaism and (2) has lost much relevance in Xtian communities.

This is the fundamental problem. My dear Psec friends, please try to understand it for your own sake; there is is no place for secularism in Islamic societies.

Harish:

Thank you for an honest, sincere narrative. And congratulations for not letting your own views come in the way of a faithful narration. We need more of such and fewer of opinion pieces so that people can form their opinions on an informed basis.

It is interesting to see the diversity of reactions to the article. Some people take it as evidence of a rabidly communalist society where the UPA is only a brief interruption to India`s march to a Hindu Raj. Others see events like Godhra/Ahmedabad as aberrations in an otherwise secular society. The reality is that India, even Indians, forms a complex society which defies generalisation. Almost every statement one makes about India is correct- and wrong!

As far as everyday normal life is considered, it seems that India is less communal now than it ever was in its history. There is a lot more interaction at a daily basis between hindus and muslims in the marketplace, in offices, in doctors` clinics and in educational institutions. There are probably more Hindu-Muslim marriages taking place now than has ever happened in the history of India. In my parents` generation, it was possible for hindus and muslims to coexist -even in the same village- without ever interacting. There was hardly ever any Hindu who lived in a Muslim mohalla or vice versa. It was quite possible for a hindu or a muslim - especially females - to live their entire life without interacting with a Muslim or a Hindu, as the case may be, and die with their prejudices in tact. There was a time - before Partition - when almost every aspiring Muslim actor and actress - Dilip Kumar, Jayant, Ajeet, Madhubala, Meena Kumari, Nimmi had to choose a Hindu sounding name to gain acceptability by their Hindu audience; some Muslim actors like Santosh Kumar and Ratan Kumar continued with their assumed Hindu names even after they went to Pakistan. Compare that to the present where `Khan` is a brand name for success in Bolliwood. Irfan Pathan and Sania Mirza seem to be the new icons, only needing a temple dedicated to them before Hindus start to go there to worship.

So, is communalism dead in India? Far from it! The saffron parivar has been eminently successful in breeding hatred against Muslims among educated, middle class, urban, mostly irreligious Hindus (it has very little to do with religion, let alone caste - Avenger is right there). These people are suspicious and distrustful of Muslims and are late converts to the two-nation theory. (Ironically, a parallel class of Muslims led the fight for Pakistan in an earlier era). They have bought hook, line and sinker into the saffronites` babar-ki-aulad theory of Muslims, their high birth rates and their extra-territorial loyalties. Like the southern gentlemen in the U.S, they can be quite nice and cultured. They may interact with Muslims (treat their Muslim driver nicely ;-)), drink with them, eat with them, visit night clubs with them, visit their homes and invite them into theirs - and then go and vote for the BJP. Unlike the chawl owner who refused to lease his chawl to a Muslim, they have no problem in sharing an apartment in the same housing complex with a Muslim (of their own class, of course!).

These urban and urbane Hindus do not participate in riots. They would even shelter their Muslim friends and colleagues if they were ever threatened by riots. Yet they contribute to the climate of hatred in which it is possible for a Modi here and a Thakray there to use any opportunity to trigger riots against innocent Indians whom they consider `babar ki aulad`.

Re: Harish # 42

Harish, first of all, thank you for a very thoughtful reply. My original post was a prompt to your ``motorcycle diary`` of travelling through India. Since this experience is based on your personal views, I cannot pass any judgements on it, because I never ``walked in your shoes`` and never saw what you did and never heard what you might have heard.

Personally, I have no objections to prejudices and towards people, who hold prejudiced views, because I chose to interpret the word in its lost sense; to pre-judge and to me, pre-judging means to have an opinion and whether it is right or wrong is a matter of debate, which in itself is nothing more than a glorified opinion. Everyone is prejudiced to an extent, because everyone has an opinion. I will be the first to admit that I have many faults, some which I am sharply aware of and some, which I am not aware. I find nothing wrong with prejudice, because what matters to me is not the idea of pre-judging someone or something, but having the capacity to learn from my shortcomings and modifying my views to correspond to my newly learned insights.

In a sense, what I was attempting to say and which I failed to say cogently, was that the admission of a prejudiced opinion is better than the denial of harboring a prejudiced opinion. We all go through a process of self-discovery and of coming to terms with our own sense of personal, and emotional worth. As we get older and not necessarily any wiser, we are more tolerant of our faults and more accepting of the flaws in our ideals. Just like an alcoholic, admission is invaribly the first towards recovery and the acceptance and out of this acceptance comes tolerance. This sense of tolerance is not the ability to tolerate another person, but the willingness to tolerate the differences between one`s own sense of expectations and limitations. Truth, in such a voyage of self-awareness, comes from being honest with one`s most cherished ideas and it is measured in the strenght of character, which has the moral virtue of accepting the proverbial reflection in the mirror, which challenges our own perception of our idealism.

In any such process, the acts of denial have to be understood clearly, because denial only weaves a web of insecurity, which needs further denials to sustain it. It is akin to asking, ``how can you be true to others, when you are not true to your own self?`` Being true to ``yourself`` means to understand the imperfections in the environment, in which one exists and to understand that particular environment better, is aways a good idea no matter how painful.

Without belaboring the point (and I am sure you will remember), I went through the process personally and given the time frame of this article, I was pleasantly surprised to see you experincing it the same time as I did. Hence, my question to you, because I was aware of the flaws,as you were, but it was, and is, the acceptance of the flaws that made all the difference. I hope, you were able to see the difference and as a result of it, are now wise enough to appreciate its diversity, because the nauances contained within it, which cast the distinctions between belief and reality are too delicate and fragile, because if given the choice; I would rather be pricked by the thorns of reality as I touch the rose of my idealism than fear the thorn and never touch the rose.

Ciao

Re: # 40
Dear Avenger
I said in reply to someone else`s post that -

``here the thing - you just equated hinduism with hindutva. Shivaji, Rana Pratap etc were not hindutvavadis they were Hindus. that is why the hindu middle classes ``that have nothing in common with the muslim elite and are the nightmare of muslims`` do not vote for the BJP.``

You read that and to you an apprpriate response was to give me chapter and verse about caste politics. Very interesting.

Yrs,
Amrita.