Planting Democracy in the World – A Mantra for Freedom
Mohammad Gill March 6, 2005
#83 Posted by Razijaffery on March 20, 2005 5:08:23 pm
A few comments again:
You said that ``Democracy is practically one of the best forms of governance; in theory, it is the government of the people, by the people and for the people`` Well, this is a strange comment.
Jamhuriat wo tarz-ehakumat hay kay jis main
Afraad ko gina kartay hain tola nahin kartay
This couplet of Iqbal is in coformity of Quranic common sensical question: Do those who know equal those who do not? If they do not, as I presume Quranic meaning to be, then how could their opinion be equal. A system of government or for that matter any other domain of life that fails to distinguish between the opinions of the learned and that of a lay man - yani afrad ko ginta hay tolta nahin - where the opinion of Socrates and that of a lay person is the same, I find it funny that people have been arguing for it forever. Empirically, and knowing that you are a scientist, I find it interesting that we don`t deliberate on democracy which is such a new system of governance, hardly goes back to 300 years whereas it were monarchies and tribal systems that dominated the major part of world history and in fact, not locally but cross-culturally, from Native Americans to Chinese and East Asian dynasties.
Now unless we extend the claim of primitiveness implying now we are more intelligent and more knowledgeable, as the white men did to justify many of his actions, and still do though in a more tacit way, we have to be careful to ask ourselves what we are propagating. An interesting story: Amir Abd al-Kader the Algerian Sufi master when arrested by French colonialists commented to French in jail: To have a sound body you need a head; French response was, don`t worry we have 5 heads to which the Shaykh responded; I am worried that you might not have 5 but 5 million heads.
In summary all I am saying is that calling democracy the best system has been accepted as a given whereas it should be counter-intuitive and we can hardly support it from history unless we change our assumptions as I mentioned above. I am not against democracy per se, but consensus of the learned e.g., early Islamic times, and that of unlearned is not the same. When the vote of a professor of history about a historical issue equals that of an accountant having no knowledge of history and is seen as a perfectly fine, even the best thing...then I fear common sense loose any meaning. Interstingly, all the discussions on democracy evade these fundamental issues.
You said that ``Democracy is practically one of the best forms of governance; in theory, it is the government of the people, by the people and for the people`` Well, this is a strange comment.
Jamhuriat wo tarz-ehakumat hay kay jis main
Afraad ko gina kartay hain tola nahin kartay
This couplet of Iqbal is in coformity of Quranic common sensical question: Do those who know equal those who do not? If they do not, as I presume Quranic meaning to be, then how could their opinion be equal. A system of government or for that matter any other domain of life that fails to distinguish between the opinions of the learned and that of a lay man - yani afrad ko ginta hay tolta nahin - where the opinion of Socrates and that of a lay person is the same, I find it funny that people have been arguing for it forever. Empirically, and knowing that you are a scientist, I find it interesting that we don`t deliberate on democracy which is such a new system of governance, hardly goes back to 300 years whereas it were monarchies and tribal systems that dominated the major part of world history and in fact, not locally but cross-culturally, from Native Americans to Chinese and East Asian dynasties.
Now unless we extend the claim of primitiveness implying now we are more intelligent and more knowledgeable, as the white men did to justify many of his actions, and still do though in a more tacit way, we have to be careful to ask ourselves what we are propagating. An interesting story: Amir Abd al-Kader the Algerian Sufi master when arrested by French colonialists commented to French in jail: To have a sound body you need a head; French response was, don`t worry we have 5 heads to which the Shaykh responded; I am worried that you might not have 5 but 5 million heads.
In summary all I am saying is that calling democracy the best system has been accepted as a given whereas it should be counter-intuitive and we can hardly support it from history unless we change our assumptions as I mentioned above. I am not against democracy per se, but consensus of the learned e.g., early Islamic times, and that of unlearned is not the same. When the vote of a professor of history about a historical issue equals that of an accountant having no knowledge of history and is seen as a perfectly fine, even the best thing...then I fear common sense loose any meaning. Interstingly, all the discussions on democracy evade these fundamental issues.
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#82 Posted by rsridhar on March 11, 2005 6:55:35 am
re: Whither Bangladesh?
The following article in Pak press, if true, is revealing:
http://www.sulekha.com/news/nhc.aspx?cid=418027
Bagladesh is proving my hypothesis correct: No muslim majority country is capable of having a sustained democracy for long. And, no muslim country can protect the rights of a minority. Bangladesh is indulging in a sustained pogram against its Hindu minorities (pity no Paki here talks about this while all the time talking about Gujarat pogrom). Now, its Army elite is dreaming of breaking up India, as the article would suggest.
Bangladesh is a puny little pathetic country with nothing to offer to the world. Like an unwanted child, it is crying out for attention. And, instead of extending a hand of friendship to India, it wishes to see India as an enemy.
India lives in dangerous neighbourhood. Indians in Chowk who think Pak can be a friend of India may think again and look at Bangladesh`s evolution from a democratic to a theocratic state.
Sridhar
The following article in Pak press, if true, is revealing:
http://www.sulekha.com/news/nhc.aspx?cid=418027
Bagladesh is proving my hypothesis correct: No muslim majority country is capable of having a sustained democracy for long. And, no muslim country can protect the rights of a minority. Bangladesh is indulging in a sustained pogram against its Hindu minorities (pity no Paki here talks about this while all the time talking about Gujarat pogrom). Now, its Army elite is dreaming of breaking up India, as the article would suggest.
Bangladesh is a puny little pathetic country with nothing to offer to the world. Like an unwanted child, it is crying out for attention. And, instead of extending a hand of friendship to India, it wishes to see India as an enemy.
India lives in dangerous neighbourhood. Indians in Chowk who think Pak can be a friend of India may think again and look at Bangladesh`s evolution from a democratic to a theocratic state.
Sridhar
#81 Posted by freethinker on March 10, 2005 11:15:28 am
tahmed:
Your post has reminded me of a joke about Ranjit Singh. You must have heard it too but let me repeat it here.
One day, Maharaja Ranjit Singh said to one of his viziers, Mufti Faqir-ud-Din (if I remember correctly), `` I am a great Raja and rule over Muslims also. Am I mentioned in your holy book, Quran?`` Mufti said, yes sir. The book says, ``Kana min-el-kafreen.`` Kana is from the Kafirs. Ranjit Singh was pleased that at least he was mentioned in the holy book.
Zikr mera mujh sey behtar haiy keh uss mehfil mein haiy.
Wishing you well.
Mohammad Gill
Your post has reminded me of a joke about Ranjit Singh. You must have heard it too but let me repeat it here.
One day, Maharaja Ranjit Singh said to one of his viziers, Mufti Faqir-ud-Din (if I remember correctly), `` I am a great Raja and rule over Muslims also. Am I mentioned in your holy book, Quran?`` Mufti said, yes sir. The book says, ``Kana min-el-kafreen.`` Kana is from the Kafirs. Ranjit Singh was pleased that at least he was mentioned in the holy book.
Zikr mera mujh sey behtar haiy keh uss mehfil mein haiy.
Wishing you well.
Mohammad Gill
#80 Posted by tahmed32 on March 10, 2005 9:56:09 am
Romair: More gannas for the Romair Delusional Sugar Mills Inc, Chicawatni.
ranjit singh kanNa was one-eyed, so he must be dajjal. but he is dead and no Final Battle.
but then....moshe dayan was kanNa, so no. he was the real dajjal. but he too is dead and no Final Battle.
but of course...mullah omar was a kanNa too, so...he was dajjal. yup. he ran off on a motorcycle when having to deal with something more than burqa clad women and anceint statues. so he must be dajjal.
ranjit singh kanNa was one-eyed, so he must be dajjal. but he is dead and no Final Battle.
but then....moshe dayan was kanNa, so no. he was the real dajjal. but he too is dead and no Final Battle.
but of course...mullah omar was a kanNa too, so...he was dajjal. yup. he ran off on a motorcycle when having to deal with something more than burqa clad women and anceint statues. so he must be dajjal.
#79 Posted by Romair on March 10, 2005 8:59:11 am
sattar2 #72: ``My understanding is that “dajjal” refers not to a one-eyed giant, but it alludes to an entity that is fraudulent and deceptive in nature.``
Actually, I think I have solved the mystery..........
The real term is not Kanna Dajjal. It is Canna Dajjal. And there is an accent of the last, ``a.`` So it is actually Conne Dajjal. Or Connie Dajjal. As in Connie-d-lies-a Rice Dajjal. So the Dajjal has already arrived. It is not Kanna but Connie. And it is busy killing Muslims whenever they disagree with it..............
Actually, I think I have solved the mystery..........
The real term is not Kanna Dajjal. It is Canna Dajjal. And there is an accent of the last, ``a.`` So it is actually Conne Dajjal. Or Connie Dajjal. As in Connie-d-lies-a Rice Dajjal. So the Dajjal has already arrived. It is not Kanna but Connie. And it is busy killing Muslims whenever they disagree with it..............
#78 Posted by sattar2 on March 10, 2005 8:53:57 am
Malik (re #75),
Kindly do explain what was Maudoodi high on … when he gave a detailed account of return of Issa (post #20 by freethinker). I am sure he did have a friend or two … unless, they were all drunk stupid with him and never really got out of it … sort of like Naqsh and Urstruly here …
#76 Posted by ballukhan on March 10, 2005 5:19:53 am
I think by and large most of the Closet Mullahs on the Chowk closely follow the classical exposition of Islamists` understanding of Democracy and Secularism
Read on the latest exposition of the 21st Century Mullahism-
Dr. Aymen Al-Zawahiri: The Freeing Of Humanity And Homelands Under The Banner Of The Qur’an
Mar 09, 2005
Translated To English By JUS © 2005. All Rights Are Reserved.
Here is the complete uncut and uncensored translation of the audio tape issued by Dr. Ayman al-Zawahiri on February 11, 2005. In this address titled “The Freeing of Humanity and Homelands under the Banner of the Qur’an”, Dr. Ayman al-Zawahiri rejects American “freedom” and lays out three principles for restoring strength to the Ummah. This document has been translated to English by JUS, and all rights are reserved. You may circulate it broadly with our copyright and accreditation.
We remind our viewers that the statements, opinions and points of view expressed in this article are those of the author and shall not be deemed to mean that they are necessarily those of Jihad Unspun, the publisher, editor, writers, contributors or staff.
In The Name Of Allah The Most Gracious, The Most Merciful
All praise be unto Allah, we seek His help, His guidance and His forgiveness.
And we seek refuge through Allah from the evils of ourselves and our bad deeds, whoever Allah guides, non can misguide, and whoever He misguides, non can guide.
Oh you who believe, fear Allah as much as He should be feared, and do not die except as Muslims
Oh mankind, fear your Lord, who created you out of one soul, and he created from it its partner, and He spread from them many men and women, and fear Allah, whom you will be asked about, and the wombs, verily Allah is Everwatching over you.
Dear Muslim brothers in all places,
May the peace and blessings of Allah be with you.
America has been attempting for a long time to establish its crusader military presence in the land of Islam
One of the means of establishing this presence is by supporting the Zionist entity and regarding it as the main steppingstone in its crusader war against our Islamic world, therefore the Jewish occupation of Palestine cannot be regarded as a regional issue confined to Palestine, and related to the Palestinians alone. Rather in the scale of Islam, it is an aggression on the house of Islam, as the Muslims are one nation, and their land is that of one country.
In the scale of any neutral analysis it will become clear that the Zionist entity is nothing but the front of the American campaign to control the Islamic East, and it is nothing but part of a massive campaign against the Islamic world, in which the West under America’s leadership has allied with global Zionism.
And with the coming of the current White House administration, the spiteful crusader spirit erupted to its most idiotic peak of support to Israel, and this stupid administration did not expect to face, with Allah’s grace, this tremendous Islamic resistance, due to its pride and arrogance,. That resistance reached its peak with the blessed battles of New York and Washington.
Like a blind bull, America decided to attack Afghanistan, and then its idiocy increased and it attacked Iraq, and then America discovered that sit had sunk with its ears into the biggest predicament it has been exposed to in its history, and its intention of starting a campaign to scare and terrorize Muslims has turned against itself with the steady flow of American blood, and weakening of its economy, and the exposing of their lowly behavior, and their principled hypocrisy - a predicament from which there is no escape except the declaration of America’s total defeat and withdrawal, and the acceptance of the strength of the Muslim Ummah, which is dependant solely on Allah, with all that that holds of catastrophic results for the American empire and their allied rulers in the Islamic world, especially after she has seen the disintegration of the Soviet Union, and the weakening of its reach, after they withdrew defeated out of Afghanistan, after they accepted defeat in an exhausting war which nearly destroyed its resources without achieving any victory, or stretch in the areas of its reach. Rather the opposite happened, in that it left with no return, ten years later, known as the Soviet Union.
Therefore America is trying with all that it has to fight the Muslim Ummah in their beliefs, which represents the biggest threat to America’s arrogant existence, especially since voices have increased inside America saying that there is no hope in defeating what they call “terrorism”, the deceitful name for Jihad, except by changing the beliefs of the Muslims, and their minds, and the military confrontation with America will only lead to more losses for America; it may shake the foundation of the American empire.
But instead of America examining itself and asking for the reason that the Muslims are inflicting these great losses on them, it only increased in arrogance, and it started thinking about how to change the beliefs and thoughts of the Muslims, so that they can accept the American crimes against Islam and the Muslims. From here came the calls that they will free the Muslims from ignorance, fanaticism and suppression, so that they can fly with them into the horizons of freedom, equality and knowledge
............................................
http://www.jihadunspun.com/intheatre_internal.php?article=101884&list=/home.php&
Read on the latest exposition of the 21st Century Mullahism-
Dr. Aymen Al-Zawahiri: The Freeing Of Humanity And Homelands Under The Banner Of The Qur’an
Mar 09, 2005
Translated To English By JUS © 2005. All Rights Are Reserved.
Here is the complete uncut and uncensored translation of the audio tape issued by Dr. Ayman al-Zawahiri on February 11, 2005. In this address titled “The Freeing of Humanity and Homelands under the Banner of the Qur’an”, Dr. Ayman al-Zawahiri rejects American “freedom” and lays out three principles for restoring strength to the Ummah. This document has been translated to English by JUS, and all rights are reserved. You may circulate it broadly with our copyright and accreditation.
We remind our viewers that the statements, opinions and points of view expressed in this article are those of the author and shall not be deemed to mean that they are necessarily those of Jihad Unspun, the publisher, editor, writers, contributors or staff.
In The Name Of Allah The Most Gracious, The Most Merciful
All praise be unto Allah, we seek His help, His guidance and His forgiveness.
And we seek refuge through Allah from the evils of ourselves and our bad deeds, whoever Allah guides, non can misguide, and whoever He misguides, non can guide.
Oh you who believe, fear Allah as much as He should be feared, and do not die except as Muslims
Oh mankind, fear your Lord, who created you out of one soul, and he created from it its partner, and He spread from them many men and women, and fear Allah, whom you will be asked about, and the wombs, verily Allah is Everwatching over you.
Dear Muslim brothers in all places,
May the peace and blessings of Allah be with you.
America has been attempting for a long time to establish its crusader military presence in the land of Islam
One of the means of establishing this presence is by supporting the Zionist entity and regarding it as the main steppingstone in its crusader war against our Islamic world, therefore the Jewish occupation of Palestine cannot be regarded as a regional issue confined to Palestine, and related to the Palestinians alone. Rather in the scale of Islam, it is an aggression on the house of Islam, as the Muslims are one nation, and their land is that of one country.
In the scale of any neutral analysis it will become clear that the Zionist entity is nothing but the front of the American campaign to control the Islamic East, and it is nothing but part of a massive campaign against the Islamic world, in which the West under America’s leadership has allied with global Zionism.
And with the coming of the current White House administration, the spiteful crusader spirit erupted to its most idiotic peak of support to Israel, and this stupid administration did not expect to face, with Allah’s grace, this tremendous Islamic resistance, due to its pride and arrogance,. That resistance reached its peak with the blessed battles of New York and Washington.
Like a blind bull, America decided to attack Afghanistan, and then its idiocy increased and it attacked Iraq, and then America discovered that sit had sunk with its ears into the biggest predicament it has been exposed to in its history, and its intention of starting a campaign to scare and terrorize Muslims has turned against itself with the steady flow of American blood, and weakening of its economy, and the exposing of their lowly behavior, and their principled hypocrisy - a predicament from which there is no escape except the declaration of America’s total defeat and withdrawal, and the acceptance of the strength of the Muslim Ummah, which is dependant solely on Allah, with all that that holds of catastrophic results for the American empire and their allied rulers in the Islamic world, especially after she has seen the disintegration of the Soviet Union, and the weakening of its reach, after they withdrew defeated out of Afghanistan, after they accepted defeat in an exhausting war which nearly destroyed its resources without achieving any victory, or stretch in the areas of its reach. Rather the opposite happened, in that it left with no return, ten years later, known as the Soviet Union.
Therefore America is trying with all that it has to fight the Muslim Ummah in their beliefs, which represents the biggest threat to America’s arrogant existence, especially since voices have increased inside America saying that there is no hope in defeating what they call “terrorism”, the deceitful name for Jihad, except by changing the beliefs of the Muslims, and their minds, and the military confrontation with America will only lead to more losses for America; it may shake the foundation of the American empire.
But instead of America examining itself and asking for the reason that the Muslims are inflicting these great losses on them, it only increased in arrogance, and it started thinking about how to change the beliefs and thoughts of the Muslims, so that they can accept the American crimes against Islam and the Muslims. From here came the calls that they will free the Muslims from ignorance, fanaticism and suppression, so that they can fly with them into the horizons of freedom, equality and knowledge
............................................
http://www.jihadunspun.com/intheatre_internal.php?article=101884&list=/home.php&
#75 Posted by malik99 on March 10, 2005 5:01:56 am
Post # 73 by hamidm sahib brings to mind the old refrain: Friends don`t let friends drink and write
Hamidm comes across as a mumbling fumbling man with his rational discourses matching those by Britney Spears (``We should support President in whatever he does``). And that is on his dry days.
Hamidm comes across as a mumbling fumbling man with his rational discourses matching those by Britney Spears (``We should support President in whatever he does``). And that is on his dry days.
#77 Posted by hamidm2 on March 10, 2005 6:15:18 am
Re: # 75
malik,
................what do you mean by, ``Friends don`t let friends drink and write`` ................are you saying that mark twain should not have been allowed to write ?????????
malik,
................what do you mean by, ``Friends don`t let friends drink and write`` ................are you saying that mark twain should not have been allowed to write ?????????
#74 Posted by arjun_m on March 10, 2005 12:24:06 am
#72 by sattar2 on March 9, 2005 6:05pm PT
Ahadith further mention the “donkey of the dajjal” … which has been interpreted by mullah literally … as a donkey. This donkey will consume fire, travel at fast speeds, people will sit in its belly
damn....are you serious? this Dajjal thingy sounds like a steam engine...
Ahadith further mention the “donkey of the dajjal” … which has been interpreted by mullah literally … as a donkey. This donkey will consume fire, travel at fast speeds, people will sit in its belly
damn....are you serious? this Dajjal thingy sounds like a steam engine...
#73 Posted by hamidm2 on March 9, 2005 7:38:19 pm
the adventures of dajjal - part I
you don`t know about me without you have read a book by the name of the koran and the the adventures of jesus; but that ain`t no matter......... that book was made by mr jesus`s father, and he told the truth, mainly........... there was things which he stretched, but mainly he told the truth............. that is nothing..........i never seen anybody but lied one time or another, without it was miss mary, or the virgin, or maybe the carpenter joseph, who was also a virgin .......... miss mary ........ jesu`s mama, and the other mary, and the chaste carpenter is all told about in that book, which is mostly a true book, with some stretchers, as i said before.
now the way that the book winds up is this: jesus and me (dajjal) were friends who was looking for the money that the jewish money lenders hid in a cave ....... we found it and it made us rich............ we got six thousand shekels apiece ...... all gold.......... it was an awful sight of money when it was piled up............ well, jesus, being son of god and the chaste mary, wanted to keep it all and had a fallin out with me ........... he ran past me with the gold and shut me in the cave - i couldn`t see too well either with my one eye and, besides, it was dark since he took the candle .............
.......... so as i was sitting in the dark, the archangel gabriel appears before me and asks me why i was sitting in the dark, weeping through my one eye, and lookin so sad and all ........... i told him the story of how jesus, the carpenter`s boy, ran off with the gold that we had found .......... gabriel, who looked a little under the influence of bad likker, shook his head and told me that it was okay because jesus was a jew and all jews were crazy about gold ............. but he said that god will punish jesus on judgement day and that i will slay him in a great battle that lasts four days and four nights ..............i asked gabriel if he would let me out of the cave but he said no because god did not wish me to interfere with his plans for the crucifixtion ............... so i asked him if i could get a donkey to ride on judgement day and he promised that i would get the best beast in bethlehem ........pretty soon i wanted to smoke, and asked the angel to let me....... hut he wouldn`t........he said it was a mean practice and wasn`t clean, and I must try to not do it any more...........that is just the way with some people........ they get down on a thing when they don`t know nothing about it
.......... so now i am waiting in the cave, in the dark, waiting for judgement day so that i can have have my revenge on jesus who stole my three thousand gold shekels and lend it to the money lenders who were giving him a shekel a day in interest .............
you don`t know about me without you have read a book by the name of the koran and the the adventures of jesus; but that ain`t no matter......... that book was made by mr jesus`s father, and he told the truth, mainly........... there was things which he stretched, but mainly he told the truth............. that is nothing..........i never seen anybody but lied one time or another, without it was miss mary, or the virgin, or maybe the carpenter joseph, who was also a virgin .......... miss mary ........ jesu`s mama, and the other mary, and the chaste carpenter is all told about in that book, which is mostly a true book, with some stretchers, as i said before.
now the way that the book winds up is this: jesus and me (dajjal) were friends who was looking for the money that the jewish money lenders hid in a cave ....... we found it and it made us rich............ we got six thousand shekels apiece ...... all gold.......... it was an awful sight of money when it was piled up............ well, jesus, being son of god and the chaste mary, wanted to keep it all and had a fallin out with me ........... he ran past me with the gold and shut me in the cave - i couldn`t see too well either with my one eye and, besides, it was dark since he took the candle .............
.......... so as i was sitting in the dark, the archangel gabriel appears before me and asks me why i was sitting in the dark, weeping through my one eye, and lookin so sad and all ........... i told him the story of how jesus, the carpenter`s boy, ran off with the gold that we had found .......... gabriel, who looked a little under the influence of bad likker, shook his head and told me that it was okay because jesus was a jew and all jews were crazy about gold ............. but he said that god will punish jesus on judgement day and that i will slay him in a great battle that lasts four days and four nights ..............i asked gabriel if he would let me out of the cave but he said no because god did not wish me to interfere with his plans for the crucifixtion ............... so i asked him if i could get a donkey to ride on judgement day and he promised that i would get the best beast in bethlehem ........pretty soon i wanted to smoke, and asked the angel to let me....... hut he wouldn`t........he said it was a mean practice and wasn`t clean, and I must try to not do it any more...........that is just the way with some people........ they get down on a thing when they don`t know nothing about it
.......... so now i am waiting in the cave, in the dark, waiting for judgement day so that i can have have my revenge on jesus who stole my three thousand gold shekels and lend it to the money lenders who were giving him a shekel a day in interest .............
#72 Posted by sattar2 on March 9, 2005 6:05:55 pm
Gill Sahib (#20):
I have understood the Dajjal-railway train issue somewhat differently.
My understanding is that “dajjal” refers not to a one-eyed giant, but it alludes to an entity that is fraudulent and deceptive in nature. Ahadith further mention the “donkey of the dajjal” … which has been interpreted by mullah literally … as a donkey. This donkey will consume fire, travel at fast speeds, people will sit in its belly … and so on. Around the same time Issa-ibne-Marriam will descend from the skies, and will kill the one-eyed dajjal, and the Jews, and anyone else who refuses to accept Islam.
My understanding is that … the “donkey” was a metaphor to the different modes of transportation … trains, planes, etc … which fit the description of the donkey ``consuming fire``, and ``people sitting in its belly``, etc.
Onward with the one-eye issue …
In religious lingo left eye refers to having worldly and materialistic outlook. Right eye refers to having a religious/spiritual outlook. The “one-eyed” part refers to the left eye of the “dajjal”, which will have a materialistic outlook, without much regard for spiritual matters. I am not sure about the single headlight of the train angle you mentioned …
Urstruly,
Remember, you heard the above first from an Ahmadi. BTW, you left out ahadith which stated that in latter days, the ullema of the ummah will be the vilest of Allah’s creations, who would be corrupt like Jewish clergy was in the days of Issa-ibne-Marriam. I guess such ahadith do not fit your purpose … and then you accuse others of treating Islam like a “buffet religion”.
Now all would be OK if only Hazrat Issa finally descends to earth … putting an end to suspense that has lasted for two thousand years. Stay tuned to Al-Jazeera … it can happen any day now … after all, it is mentioned in hadith ...
#71 Posted by zarrar2 on March 9, 2005 2:51:45 pm
Cantonement-kuttaas!
wow? I would like to ask the person posting this comment if he/she is educated at all. By the looks of things they are offending this wonderfull writer and making a mockery of his intelligence, the worst thing one can do. Please stop trying to make Pakistan into Iran. It is headed for far better things. IF only your life revolved around less than just religion you would see too. Good job on the article! I loved it.
wow? I would like to ask the person posting this comment if he/she is educated at all. By the looks of things they are offending this wonderfull writer and making a mockery of his intelligence, the worst thing one can do. Please stop trying to make Pakistan into Iran. It is headed for far better things. IF only your life revolved around less than just religion you would see too. Good job on the article! I loved it.
#70 Posted by hamidm2 on March 9, 2005 2:45:39 pm
echoboom,
........... it is nice to meet a man with a mission - you remind me of johnny appleseed
........... it is nice to meet a man with a mission - you remind me of johnny appleseed
#69 Posted by echoboom on March 9, 2005 2:04:19 pm
For the sprecial attention of Cantonement-kuttaas, the mutts & mongrels from Pakistan. The ones who are proud that John Bull and Uncle Sam ream and spread `democracy` where the sun never shines.
Until and unless these abdulAmreekas express their revulsion and hate for their StarSpangled deadbeat abbajaans, the need for this prozaic for them will be ever increasing.
Those who use vulgar language and ridicule are Nabi (pbuh), our Islam, and religious & pious muslims deserves no `polite` responses. Mangy shaggy dogs from the cantonement & colonies must be stoned & whipped if they ever appear in Shareef Mohallaas.
It is these dogs who should be addressed to be civil.
More muslims are needed to put these dogs down.
There was a time when CHOWK crawled with secularist and `liberal` lowlifes (until 2001) Some have even mended their ways but a lot more has to be done here.
Huge pro-Syria rally clogs Beirut square
Last Updated Tue, 08 Mar 2005 22:03:05 EST
CBC News
BEIRUT - Hundreds of thousands of pro-Syria demonstrators rallied in a square in Beirut on Tuesday, answering a call from the militant Islamic group Hezbollah to show their support for a continuing Syrian presence in Lebanon.
Lebanese policeman block protestors chanting anti America slogans in a central Beirut square, Lebanon, Tuesday. (AP photo)
The crowds waved flags, held up pictures of Syrian President Bashar Assad and hoisted signs proclaiming Lebanon`s brotherhood with Syria. Organizers directed men and women to separate sides of the square for the demonstration.
Two giant red-and-white flags were hoisted on large cranes with the words ``Thank You Syria`` and ``No Foreign Interference.``
``Leave us alone, we have no problem with the Syrians,`` said one woman. A man echoed her sentiments: ``We have to end the American occupation in our region.``
A number of anti-American signs were spotted in the crowd, reading ``America Is the Source of Terrorism`` and ``All Our Disasters Are from America.``
Hezbollah guards handled security, lining the streets and rooftops. Dogs sniffed for bombs at the demonstration site, which was in front of the United Nations office in Beirut.
There are reports that Syria bused people into Lebanon and pressured people to turn out.
A day earlier, the leaders of Syria and Lebanon announced Syrian troops would redeploy to eastern Lebanon by the end of March. The governments will then discuss a complete withdrawal from the country.
For days, about 70,000 anti-Syria demonstrators have rallied at another downtown square, calling on Syria to remove its 14,000 troops from Lebanon. Many Lebanese blame the the Feb. 14 assassination of former prime minister Rafik Hariri on Syria.
The United States, the United Nations, France and Germany have also urged Syria to get out of Lebanon.
The pro-Syrian Hezbollah has called on its supporters to reject international interference in the issue as well as a UN demand that militias in the country disarm.
Until and unless these abdulAmreekas express their revulsion and hate for their StarSpangled deadbeat abbajaans, the need for this prozaic for them will be ever increasing.
Those who use vulgar language and ridicule are Nabi (pbuh), our Islam, and religious & pious muslims deserves no `polite` responses. Mangy shaggy dogs from the cantonement & colonies must be stoned & whipped if they ever appear in Shareef Mohallaas.
It is these dogs who should be addressed to be civil.
More muslims are needed to put these dogs down.
There was a time when CHOWK crawled with secularist and `liberal` lowlifes (until 2001) Some have even mended their ways but a lot more has to be done here.
Huge pro-Syria rally clogs Beirut square
Last Updated Tue, 08 Mar 2005 22:03:05 EST
CBC News
BEIRUT - Hundreds of thousands of pro-Syria demonstrators rallied in a square in Beirut on Tuesday, answering a call from the militant Islamic group Hezbollah to show their support for a continuing Syrian presence in Lebanon.
Lebanese policeman block protestors chanting anti America slogans in a central Beirut square, Lebanon, Tuesday. (AP photo)
The crowds waved flags, held up pictures of Syrian President Bashar Assad and hoisted signs proclaiming Lebanon`s brotherhood with Syria. Organizers directed men and women to separate sides of the square for the demonstration.
Two giant red-and-white flags were hoisted on large cranes with the words ``Thank You Syria`` and ``No Foreign Interference.``
``Leave us alone, we have no problem with the Syrians,`` said one woman. A man echoed her sentiments: ``We have to end the American occupation in our region.``
A number of anti-American signs were spotted in the crowd, reading ``America Is the Source of Terrorism`` and ``All Our Disasters Are from America.``
Hezbollah guards handled security, lining the streets and rooftops. Dogs sniffed for bombs at the demonstration site, which was in front of the United Nations office in Beirut.
There are reports that Syria bused people into Lebanon and pressured people to turn out.
A day earlier, the leaders of Syria and Lebanon announced Syrian troops would redeploy to eastern Lebanon by the end of March. The governments will then discuss a complete withdrawal from the country.
For days, about 70,000 anti-Syria demonstrators have rallied at another downtown square, calling on Syria to remove its 14,000 troops from Lebanon. Many Lebanese blame the the Feb. 14 assassination of former prime minister Rafik Hariri on Syria.
The United States, the United Nations, France and Germany have also urged Syria to get out of Lebanon.
The pro-Syrian Hezbollah has called on its supporters to reject international interference in the issue as well as a UN demand that militias in the country disarm.
#68 Posted by arjun_m on March 9, 2005 12:54:07 pm
#67 by Romair on March 9, 2005 12:38pm PT
This resulted in the Sabra and Shatilla massacre, which caused outrage in the world. Ariel Sharon (then Defence Minister) was personally held responsible, by an Israeli commission, for the killings of 2500 refugees. The commision recommended Sharon should not hold public office again. He went on to become the Prime Minister. And was called, ``A man of peace`` by Bush.
A hundred times as many people were killed by the Pakistani army in 71....and yet nobody was prosecuted, people got promoted and there was no ``outrage`` in the muslim world....
This resulted in the Sabra and Shatilla massacre, which caused outrage in the world. Ariel Sharon (then Defence Minister) was personally held responsible, by an Israeli commission, for the killings of 2500 refugees. The commision recommended Sharon should not hold public office again. He went on to become the Prime Minister. And was called, ``A man of peace`` by Bush.
A hundred times as many people were killed by the Pakistani army in 71....and yet nobody was prosecuted, people got promoted and there was no ``outrage`` in the muslim world....
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