Pakistan’s Software Industry

#295 by Mantolives on March 15, 2005 10:02pm PT


.... because it is all a grand ISI conspiracy... I am trying to expose it. We are merely duping the world.


Nope.......the world isn`t being duped..If it was, you`d see a lot more than the piddly 200 milion $ from foreign funds...

you`re only duping yourself..


I can`t believe a simple article on KSE has had such a profoundly upsetting effect on the Indians... Goes to show that they are obsessed and bigoted


I asked you a simple question, the answer to which can be found reading the newspaper you claim to work for...

I see you`ve chosen not to answer the questions...

harish: I referred to your thick hide because you refused to take a polite hint to ``have a good day`` and came back to be told more bluntly that I had no interest in having political ``discussions`` with you. That was describing your behavior, not abusing you.

As for your calling me an ``ahmak``, that is a brilliant play on my name and I commend you on this cleverness - but rest assured that I am being anything but an ``ahmek`` when I refuse your repeated attempts to have ``discussions`` with you. And when I referred to abuse on your part, I referred to your use of the word ``chutiya`` (your word, not mine) in your parting post in the other board a few days ago where I had similarly refused to persistent efforts to start a ``dialogue`` with me. So when I imply you are a coward, I say this because (unless you are 10 feet tall) you know very well that you would not dare to call another man this word in his face. Only from the safety of the internet.

rsridhar: I will agree that we have discussed this topic ad nauseum (and indeed noted the same in my earlier post to netizen when i referred to beating this poor dead horse). It is for this reason that I had tried to summarize in 4 points the basis on which I think that Pakistani leaders (despite their faults) have essentially secured Pakistan`s defense.

If you had stuck to those four points, it would have been easier to discuss further. Or better yet, stopped with what I note in my first sentence above. However, you go on to make a number of points on different issues and which dont cover the four basic points mentioned above - thus, you refer to Khan and that the pakistani military knew of his actions, and that is something I have already agreed seems to be the case; you refer to ``what after the war on terrorism is over? How long can Pak continue to depend on USA`s largesse based on its services? How long is this client-paymaster relation to continue? `` and again this has nothing to do with what I wrote - and btw, while in your above quoted remarks you display the common view of too many Indians that Pakistan is merely some kind of a client state of the US and is incapable of existence as a free and independent nation on its own. As I wrote to bbabu also, this self-serving and belittling view of Pakistan has been held from day 1 by Indian leaders and has no bearing on reality.

Anyway, nice to hear from you.

#309 by the-ahmak-32

[All you have shown is that any coward can write abuse on the internet.]

I agree with you, any coward can write abuse, which is what you are when you called me “thick-hide”.

[Although I realize your frustration at my repeated refusal to have a ``discussion`` with you.]

I am devastated at your refusal. How can you so cruel as to deny me the opportunity to expose your lies, because that is what you do every time you post something?

harish hyd: All you have shown is that any coward can write abuse on the internet. Although I realize your frustration at my repeated refusal to have a ``discussion`` with you.

bbabu #284 Your response is just as full of factually wrong as your original one, AND now you are arguing the opposite!!

On my point 1., in your original post you had incorrectly claimed that Pakistan was a ``pariah`` in the 1990`s - I had asked you to look up the dictionary meaning of the word and then talk to me. You ignore that, and are now arguing the opposite!! (i.e. when you say ``It was not like Pakistan or Pakistanis was subject to diplomatic isolation, sporting boycotts or mass deportations before Sep-11 or May 1998.``. You are factually wrong here as well!! But never mind, I am not going to ask you to now do your homework on the ``diplomatic isolation, sporting boycotts or mass deportations`` that you talk about after 1998 and 2001.

On 2., in your original post you had said that no sanctions were lifted until after 2001, rather than 1998. I had told you to get your current history right (easily done using google) and even told you to look up the Brownback Amendments I and II of 1998/99. You ignore that and come back with ``What sanctions are we talking about ? Pressler amendment ??``. If you were serious about getting your facts right, you would not ask me this dumb question - you can look up the answer just as easily as I can.


On 3., the same story. in your original post you wrote ``Why should India attack Pakistan if Pakistan stop its low intensity war in Kashmir ?`` . This clearly implies that Pakistan should assume that India would never attack Pakistan as long as Pakistan accepts the Indian position on Kashmir - in other words that Pakistan should entrust its defense to the good will of India. When I had asked you to used your common sense on this point, and now you come back denying the clear implication of what you said by writing `` I never asked Pakistani state to entrust their security to others. `` !!

On my point 4., once again you now change your story!! That is, in your original post you wrote ``I do not think Europeans, Japanese or others are wasting any energy on Pakistan. ``. When challenged on this obvious point, you shift this from the present to the future!! (i.e. you write ``Pakistani nuclear deterrent is irelevant in the long run. Missile defense, nuclear proliferation and economic issues will drown out the relevance of the Pakistani nuclear arsenal.``). And btw, Indian governments have been making these dire predictions about Pakistan since day 1 - and they havent come true.

I do appreciate your civilized manner even though I know you dont like to see your obviously deeply-held views being challenged. However, I wont be continuing this argument further - since your two posts that contradict not just easily checked facts but also one another, and that is enough.

#306 by Mantolives

[Given the lop sided development of your brain matter, I have been forced to bring myself down to your level. One cannot declaim intellectually with the chimpanzees.]

Which is why I quietly withdrew from the other board. It is simply useless to argue with someone who thinks a great smile is an indication of intellect, and I couldn`t bring myself down to your level.

You have shown to what level you can stoop by commenting on someone`s pic, and I will not do the same, because as you said, one cannot declaim intellectually with a Chimpanzee. That pretty much says it all.

Re: # 305

Given the lop sided development of your brain matter, I have been forced to bring myself down to your level. One cannot declaim intellectually with the chimpanzees. Is it any wonder you agree with Malik99`s assessment ... both of you are two sides of the same coin, or same side of two different coins what have you.

PS: I don`t have to look at your pic to understand your pathetic intellect. It is quite obvious you see.

#302 by Mantolives

[A mere cop out on your part to take responsibility for your own ignorance and biases... indicative of a lop sided development of your intellectual potential, manifest in the goofy smile you have up in your profile picture.]

Ha! Ha! Now that you have no more arguments left, you have sunk to a level where you have nothing else to do but comment on my picture?! If this is the state of a supposedly educated Paki, Allah help Pakistan! As much as I disagree with malik99’s extreme views, I must compliment him on his spot-on assessment of you.

#234 by the-ahmak-32

[Why is it so hard for you to recognize that the reason I dont want to waste time with you is not that I am shaking with fear at your chowk posts??]

If you had even an iota of common sense, you would realize that no one fears anyone on Chowk. But I have noticed that you are sh!t-scared of facts, and when they are presented, you just fold up and vanish into the thin air.

[I have seen you contribute nothing but hot air and bluster and abusive language - and ``paki-bashers`` (from the safety of the internet) like you are a dime a dozen on chowk. Second and last post to you. I have no interest in your views or in wasting more time with you.]

A cowardly excuse if there ever was one. Why don’t you admit that you have been caught with your pants down, and I’ll make it easier for you to withdraw?

Re: # 301

A mere cop out on your part to take responsibility for your own ignorance and biases... indicative of a lop sided development of your intellectual potential, manifest in the goofy smile you have up in your profile picture.

#299 by Mantolives

[Is that why you resorted to personal insults and then ran when confronted with logical arguments?]

No, but because I realized the futility of arguing with you. Your subsequent harangue has only served to validate my opinion. Thanks for confirming my beliefs.

For all the time Hacked Penis and other Pakis spend on their obsession with India and India raleated stuff , they shows remarkable ignorance and lack of understanding of India and Indians.


On major policy issues like Kashmir and Nuclear Bombs , all political parties - Congress/BJP- in India think alike. Trying to drive a wedge between Indians on these vital issues is a futile exercise. Public opinion is overwhelmingly in favor of holding on to Kashmir and those much damed nukes.

1.``Indian nuke explosion was a blunder of the highest order. We know that the current congress sakar also holds this view as expressed by Natwar Singh recently.``

It doesn`t matter what Nattu Singh thinks...most Indians are damn happy about them nukes. The current Congress sarkar`s official viewpoint is that nuclear weapons are a prerequisite for India`s safety. And that it doesn`t matter what Nattu Singh thinks. Thats what the Prime Minister said in the parliament.

India`s nuclear weapons do not belong to any political party , but to the whole country and its people. Its not about Congress or BJP - its about the people of India and what they want. People of India (apart from a few disgruntled leftists) love those beauties...


2.`` It would be sheer stupidity on India’s part to turn the whole region into a nuke confrontation region just to prove that Pakistan had nukes. Made it whole lot easier for Pakistan to sort of come out of the closet``


India exploded em` nukes not because it wanted to prove to the world that Pakistan had nukes , but BECAUSE Pakistan had nukes and so it was imperative for India to have nukes of its own. The argument about India giving up its conventional superiority by exploding em` nukes is hogwash because in the even of a conventional war breaking out , Pakistan would certainly have used its secret nuclear power on India rather than risk getting annihilated by India`s far superior conventional military strength.


Fact is - Pakistan had nukes imported from China long before 1998. Because common sense dictates that it is not possible for a country to develop nuclear weapons in a matter of 3 weeks. It takes painstaking research , investment ,decades of expertise and a degree of stealth (smugglign raw materials to and fro) to develop nukes. India`s nuclear program began way back in 1956 , by Nehru`s orders , under the leadership of Dr. Homi Jehangir Bhabha.

If then Pakistan did have nukes and kept them in secrecy , then obviously it was not for ornamental purpose , but because Pakistan intended to reply to a conventional military strike by what it then believed to be a non-nuclear India with nuclear bombs. To stun the big enemy into submission.


3.``The reality is the BJP/RSS govt. was the worst thing that happened to India in the last 57 years and slowly people would begin to realize that. Zia destroyed the Pakistani society by inserting religion into the society. Similarly, RSS/BJP successfully divided the Indian society on communal lines and it would take a long time to recover from that.``


Before the BJP came to power , Pakistan ranked higher than India on the human development index , had a higher per capita and a lower concentration of poverty. By the time BJP lost power , India ranked higher than Pakistan on the human development index , had a higher per capita and a lower concentration of poverty.


Whether the Indian society is divided on communal lines or not , is debatable , and varies from case to case , region to region , person to person....but certainly not for a Paki to judge. Most countries are divided in one way or another. Even US is divided along the lines of race/religion/ethnicity. Every society is polarised one way or another. That cannot be avoided. But what is important is to ensure that there is no discrimination by the state or by law on basis of religion , race or ethnicity.

But is must be said that the root of all communal polarisation is Islam. In any secular country , as soon as muslims cross a certain threshold of population , they create problems. This is visible in Europe in countries like Holland , France and UK . In US , we all know what the Americans think of em` rag heads.


4.``The RSS/BJP govt also communalize the Kashmir issue.``

BJP came to power in 1998... the violence in Kashmir began in 1989. Over 95% of Kashmiri hindus were forced into leaving the valley by 1991 by the Kashmiri muslims who threatened them with murder and rape. Leave Kashmir or we will take your women , they were told.The idea was to cleanse Kashmir of any kufr elements.

By 1995-96 , most local Kashmiri militants were killed by the Indian Army. The Jammu and Kashmir Liberation Front - which was an organisation of local Kashmiri militants , was practically finished by the Indian Army.By now the movement was fully under the hands of Pakistani/Afghani terrorists of Pakistan based terrorist organisations like Lashkar-e-Toiba and Hizbul-e-Muzahiddin.

The locals had by then realised the futility of their movement and were pinned into submission by the Indian Army. Although they still supported the seccession of Kashmir from India , they had by now been castrated and lacked the ability to fight the Indians.


So by the time BJP came to power in 1998 , Kashmir had already cooled down significantly.So BJP`s influence over Kashmir is MINIMAL. Influence of RSS over the events in Kashmir is unclear and has to be investigated at length. RSS` involvement in the Bhopal Gas Tragedy of 1984 and the recent Tsunami also needs to be investigated.

BJP`s mandate was to continue with the status quo - which it did. Congress`s mandate is to continue with the status quo , which it is doing. India`s stand is clear - regardless of who is in power. Whats presently ours will remain ours, Whats currently yours , we dont want. Convert LOC into IB and lets move on.

Re: # 298

Is that why you resorted to personal insults and then ran when confronted with logical arguments? People like you are the quintessential Indians... obsessed with Pakistan, bigoted, narcissistic ... Just stand back and realize your knee jerks. How you chaps describe anything or anyone that challenges your biases as ``tabloid`` or ``biased`` etc.

For all your apparent ``superiority`` over us... you seem to act like chimpanzees...

#278 arjun_m

I`m surprised you`re even trying to have a sane discussion with Mr. Manto. For all his sophistication, he is still the quintessential Paki, incapable of making anything out of a simple and logical argument.