Promoting Research in Pakistan: A Few Ideas

[#31 by ballukhan ]

I agree about lessening government machinery of the type you describe. But universities in India are mostly funded by government. You cannot do away with government completely. May be India needs ITS (Indian Technolgical Services).

Examples you cite of technological innovations which died young in India are perhaps wrong ones. Solar cells and solar cookers are innovations conceptualized by west. Even in west also they are not considered viable. Better examples are gobar gas plants. Even gobar gas plants cannot become popular by a imposed from above government program unless people ``buy`` the concept of it.

OTOH if there is a quantum jump in solar energy technology which cannot be understood and manufactured in small towns then that technology will need help of government to spread. But it better be real big quntum jump. But such imposing from above will be merely like selling a government supported (if not susidized) useful product to people who buy it like they buy battery cells. It will still not give scientific spirit to people as side effect.

A people driven program cannot originate in a bureaucrat`s office or technocrat`s lab unless these people have not lost their contact with people. Tragic thing about third world countries is total disconnect between education which has become totally english medium education and people. The education `haves` almost always are brain washed by west`s way of thinking and what is important and what is not.

Creative (and not verbatim) translation of great classics of science is likely do contribute more to vitalize peoples` interest in science than unthinking spread of english based education. A scientist schooled in his own language, who can attempt to explain to his mother the concepts he learns in school, is more likely to also plant the germ of science in his people. He may be thwarted in his work because all his original ideas might be reinventions of wheel, but he will be always be responsive to people and their sensibility. Original thinking which is also new is mirage we should stop running after.

Oops ...

#30 by myself
[Neither to produce a measurable result and motivated by commercial gains only nor because any tengible result is seen in near future. ]

What I wanted to say was: ...nor because no tengible result

Research is lagging behind in developing countries because it is being done either as token effort or because there is too much goal oriented research (like in Nuclear Technology).

Research should be done because people feel in their heart its worth. Research should be done in the spirit of Hindu principle of Karma, where neither the good result should enthuse one to do a deed nor unpleasant consequence should deter from doing a deed. Neither to produce a measurable result and motivated by commercial gains only nor because any tengible result is seen in near future. Capitalism will take care of commercial interests in research in technology.

What is missing is culture of science. That is why a rupee spent on encouraging high school students to think and question will produce more rewards down the line when these kids grow up rather than imposing science from above. Some degree of disruption is bound to follow any increase in independent thinking, because it will make young people challenge traditional wisdom. That is why some effort should be done in adult education also. An adult is less likely to be swayed by glittering play objects western technology has produced. Rather a grownup person is more likely to see importance of science and technology in a more mature way. And that is important because it is going to involve all people rather than only young people. There should be democracy in all efforts of popularizing science and technology.

Research in technology should be driven by practical needs of people and commercial interests. A third world country should not aspire to invent next rocket but next bullock cart wheel.

Inventing a water purifier which can be produced in villages is going to have bigger impact on our society as compared to inventing similar thing and then mass manufacturing it in a factory and providing it to all villages. That is because first is direct ``first order`` impact on quality of health, and second is ``invisible`` cultural impact on teaching scientific way of thinking to people.

In order that we can do better judgment of what research is worth pursuing and what is better left to west, some kind of impact analysis which takes into account invisible gains any increase in scientific spirit brings as a ``side effect`` result.

Also doing only technology research and not having bureaucracy and infrastructure to disseminate inventions from labs to assembly lines will be counter productive. In fact establishing machinery for dissemination of information and technology do more for the cause of science and technology. Because this tend to be at grassroots locations.

Re: # 30
``Research in technology should be driven by practical needs of people and commercial interests. A third world country should not aspire to invent next rocket but next bullock cart wheel.

Inventing a water purifier which can be produced in villages is going to have bigger impact on our society as compared to inventing similar thing and then mass manufacturing it in a factory and providing it to all villages. That is because first is direct ``first order`` impact on quality of health, and second is ``invisible`` cultural impact on teaching scientific way of thinking to people. ``

Better not look at the government for that!! I remember that IIT Kanpur made improvements in the bullock cart design way back in 1960-s (this was reported in the Science Today Mag)...and BHEL made solar cookers in the 70-s ...BEL made solar cells in 1970-s.........and these projects died their natural deaths due to these IAS bureaucrats....
what we need is to ease the government out of these technologies which it has REGULATED and MONOPOLIZED since ages and encourage private players to sell such technologies to the rural markets...I would like to see the private players capturing the rural markets with these technologies.....remember....even the Gobar Gas Plant technology needs a technological update which cannot be supported by the government bureaucracy!!

Sorry for being harsh! But my point is that the governmental intervention in IT industry has limited salutory effect and a PROACTIVE bureaucracy has infact been always a stumbling block in the progress of ANY private venture.
Do you know that the IT revolution came about despite the lack of governmental support in the 1990-s and becasue of the fact that the Ministry of IT in India came very late and therefore the government was not able to put bureaucratic stumbling blocks on the IT Industry through their regulations!
So there is no point seeking governmental intervention anywhere. Infact trying to look up to the government to expand the IT industry is hardly the correct path to progress. The maximum that the government bureaucrats can do is to make a few legislations , Tax cuts and provide some infrastructural benefits to the IT Industry. The rest has to be done by the private players- that includes running IT educational institutes, providing a career path for the new recruits, getting overseas business, building competency etc....
And when we all know that people flock around their kind then why this emphasis upon bringing a conscious attempt to bring the Ummah thingy in the Lab politics???

Brass hats & mortar-boards-II


By Ardeshir Cowasjee

There is yet more depressing news. The Swiss-based World Economic Forum (WEF) has recently issued its Global Competitiveness Report for 2004-2005 evaluating and ranking 104 countries. It has been compiled by Michael Porter of Harvard University, Klaus Schwab of the WEF, Xavier Sala-i-Martin of Columbia University and Augusto Lapez-Claros of the WEF.

The report is broken up into various sections. Under the heading `Technological readiness`, India is listed at 26 with Korea and Luxembourg above it and Panama and Malaysia beneath. Pakistan comes in at 84 sandwiched between Gambia and Nigeria on top and Ukraine and Mali below.

`Firm-level technology absorption` has India at 18, with Norway and New Zealand above and Austria and the Slovak Republic below. Pakistan is listed at 44, under the Czech Republic and Bahrain and over Namibia and Jordan.

`Prevalence of foreign technology licensing` lists India at 8, with New Zealand and Japan above and the United Arab Emirates and Germany below. At 67, Pakistan lies between Tanzania and Nigeria and Costa Rica and Venezuela.

Under `FDI and technology transfer` India lies at 20 below Kenya and the United Kingdom and above Luxembourg and South Africa. We are at 96, between Ecuador and Mali and Ukraine and Macedonia.

`Quality of scientific research readiness` has India at 17, below France and Norway, and above New Zealand and the Russian Federation. We lie at 94, below Bangladesh and Vietnam and above Peru and Ecuador.

Under `Company spending on research and development`, India is listed at 26, with South Africa and Ireland above and China and Indonesia below. We enter at 101, between Bolivia and Paraguay and Angola and Chad. The last listed under this heading is Ethiopia at 104.

India tops the list at No.1 under `Availability of scientists and engineers` with Finland at 2 and Israel at 3, while Pakistan lies in the second half at 61 with Slovenia and Bangladesh above and Ghana and Croatia below.

Depressing also was a report in the press last week from Khalid Hasan in Washington on the subject of the annual `index of economic freedom` exercise conducted by the conservative think tank Heritage Foundation and the Wall Street Journal. Pakistan is included among 10 of the 155 countries surveyed whose performance `worsened` during 2004. It is now bracketed with Ethiopia, Uganda, Haiti, Bangladesh, Morocco, Qatar, Cuba and Tunisia. Pakistan is listed at 133, and India at 118.

Charlie,

There is a phenomoenon of brand equity when it comes to Indians, especially IITians in USA. In my company here, we have around 5 people from IIT. We have proven ourselves so well, that senior management knows all about IITs and the kind of students graduating from there. In fact, now my boss looks at a resume and if he sees IIT, he automatically asks HR to bring that person in for an interview.

So it is equity that we have earned based on brains and hard work. It is wrong to think that Indians are favoring other Indians. In fact, I will tell you that it is the opposite. Most Indians are very, very competitive with each other and will often work against each other. In fact they benchmark and compare everything against other Indians, so there is even lesser tendency to play favorites. If one Indian guy becomes a VP, the other Indians cannot sleep for days. Most Indian profs are brutal with their Indian Ph.D. students, delaying their graduation and exploiting them to the max. Indian companies in US typically exploit other Indians to the fullest. So it is our individual strength that has led to our success here, not any kind of collective cooperation.

Re : Article
In most countries that have large research institutions there is a market for that research. It is mostly funded by Industry or Govt. grants. But there is an industrial base that can consume the goods.

Regards,

Faruk

Charlie #17
Most Indian universities have strong alumni networks. They are used extensively to look for research positions at US graduate schools. The Chinese and Koreans do the same. If a student knows that one of his co researchers is planning to defend his thesis they usually inform their alma mater.

I remember when I landed in the US for an undergrad program, there was a huge Indian Student Association banner welcoming Indian Students at the Airport. The Indian Students Association arranges for free accommodation and helps Indian students find assistantships.

You can call this nepotism or plain and simple networking as it’s called in the US. This is not a unique Indian phenomenon. I am sure the fact that both my parents attended the same school as me helped me when I applied .

Regards,

Faruk

Pakistan has nuclear technology, it has missiles, it has the shahedd battle tank, some aircraft and I am surprised what this man is complaining about lack of reasearch in pakistan. It is very surprising that pakistan has more or less the same technology like india, but has no research capability. Will some enlightened pakistani like YLH, or ferozk tell the truth.

Then of course there is complaint about foreign pakistanis not helping the local ones. This is factually untrue, so many of pakistanis abroad have come to pakistan to be trained by laskers, jaish mohammed etc. So the simplest suggestion from this great academic making policy prescriptions should be to coordinate his visionary collaborations with the laskers.

There are inherent strenghts in pakistani society, and it is centered around jihadis, and it is time that the educatde pakistanis learn to make use of these.

one more thing, if you think its a good idea to emulate indian ol-boy-network, why reject indian comments on this board?

charlie
i used to think that way about greeks during my grad school (greek professors and greek students). i understand you are an EE major, it just so happens that us EE depts are saturated with indian students so this may appear to you as a bonding thing. PIGS (poor indian grad student) however no doubt have a formidable info network in us grad schools, so they know where the funding is etc efficiently.

Charlie #17

`` Dear Indians! Thanks for commenting on my article so seriously and bringing zionist conspiracies, Ummah and Islam in an unrelated stuff. Why do Indian always like to bring it inside even if it has nothing to do with the subject being discussed ?

OK! Let me elaborate my stance. Their is nothing to take negatively. Being too much ``

I am sure the probability that Indian professor hires Indian student is higher than the probability that non-Indian professor hires a Indian student. It is not that simple.

A lot of departments have a quota on how many Indian students they can admit since Indian students need financial assistance w.r.t. out of state tution.

What you say about all-Indian research teams might happen more at lesser known universities ?

To the degree there are Indians and Chinese in science and engineering. It is the law of numbers. There are as many Indians as all Muslims put together. Ditto for Chinese.
Combine this with strong educational institutions in India and China. It is easy to see why Indians and Chinese overwhelm everyone else in USA.

BTW you would see a lot of Iranian and Arab professors who joined academia in the 1960s, 1970s and 1980s. If you look at the young Iranian and Arab professors the numbers dramatically fall off. I do no think they can handle the onslaught of Indians and Chinese.
Combine this with 9-11 and outsourcing. Your young Middle Eastern and Pakistani professional is caught in a firestorm in terms of future career opportunities.

Charlie #3

`` #1 Ballu, Try to browse through the profiles of foreign professors (mostly chinese and Indian) working in European and North American Universities, you will realize that they prefer their PhD students coming from their home countries. But when I talk of Pakistani doing something similar, it is making you feel uneasy. I don`t know, why?``

This is one of the dumbest argument I have heard. Certainly an Indian professor in US university who graduated from IIT is going to look at students who have graduated from IIT. But he has to get the best students if he wants to go up the career path of getting tenure, NSF grants etc. It is not like professors can do anything they want.

If a Pakistani student are as smart as his Indian counterpart he might not get admission into University of Michigan. Nothing might prevents him from getting admission into Michigan State. Once you graduate it is your skills and work ethic that gets you throigh industry.

India`s progress exploeded after the socialist and corrupt govt stopped interfering in private domain.

Dear Indians! Thanks for commenting on my article so seriously and bringing zionist conspiracies, Ummah and Islam in an unrelated stuff. Why do Indian always like to bring it inside even if it has nothing to do with the subject being discussed ?

OK! Let me elaborate my stance. Their is nothing to take negatively. Being too much

A few decades back, many Indians left India and went to US. They lived there, got educated and achieved good status in academia and industry. There is nothing bad to feel that an Indian prefers other Indian. People coming from third world are normally hardworkers so were indians and chinese. As a result, they became an important part of academia and industry in US. When they became senior enough, they helped their Indian juniors to find places in better positions. During 90s, when the first generation of expat Indians had become old enough, some of them wanted to go back. They brought back all the good things they had earned from US. It included influence, experience and wealth. So what is bad in having all that ?


Shishapa! Every article I read coming from a US PhD student as a first author, 70 % of the times it involves an Indian PhD advisor. Again, nothing bad in it. World goes like this. It seems a joke if I myself go through some conference and give you name of the prof having all indian students. You can consider that I chose anexceptional case. I invite you to google for a conference proceedings, choose one senior indian professor in its program committee and see his publications and co-author is those publications. See for the PhD students working for them. Right now, I have 3 papers on my table written by Indian professors outside india. Two of them have all indian research team. Third one is however written by a Chinese and american co-authors.

Netizen! If student is good enough, he should not work with a desi professor. If he is bad, ``doobtay ko tinkay ka sahara``. :)