Mahadev Gobind Ranade (1842-1901)

Gandhi-jinnah detour apart, the author deserves recognition for his two significant contributions here -

He gave us a deeper view into Ranade life.

He set a positive example by ably stepping `outside the box` - a challenge never easy for anyone. That he did so with regard to an area as controversial and as sensitive as the one he picked is very remarkable.

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I know what some Indians may be itching to say about the gandhi debate. But to be fair, we must take that never-ending issue off the table. That wasn`t the focus here in the first place :)

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The discussions have long been over!!
Its just a question of who can sling the mud the farthest :(
Im outta here

manto,

............ next time you write an article like this, take the hoodbhoy approach ......... the discussion after the first forty or so posts has not added any value ......... but it did start out well and i am sure you meant well ..........

ps. i am predicting bb will be pm in 2007 - maybe you can help the ppp clean up their act

I had posted this earlier but Yasser seems to have not noticed!
Since Ambedkar seems to be the consensual authority on the topic ...

``I am condemned because I criticized Mr. Gandhi and Mr. Jinnah for the mess they have made of Indian politics, ...``

``I insist that if I hate Mr. Gandhi and Mr. Jinnah—1 dislike them, I do not hate them—it is because I love India more. ...``

``How do they [Gandhi and Jinnah ] compare with Ranade ? ... The first thing that strikes me is that it would be difficult to find two persons who would rival them for their colossal egotism, to whom personal ascendancy is everything and the cause of the country a mere counter on the table.``
``They have made Indian politics a matter of personal feud. Consequences have no terror for them ; indeed they do not occur to them until they happen. When they do happen they either forget the cause, or if they remember it, they overlook it with a complacency which saves them from any remorse. They choose to stand on a pedestal of splendid isolation. They wall themselves off from their equals. They prefer to open themselves to their inferiors. They are very unhappy at and impatient of criticism, but are very happy to be fawned upon by flunkeys. Both have developed a wonderful stagecraft and arrange things in such a way that they are always in the limelight wherever they go. Each of course claims to be supreme. If supremacy was their only claim, it would be a small wonder. In addition to supremacy each claims infallibility for himself.``


Read the complete article at
http://www.ambedkar.org/ambcd/06.%20Ranade,%20Gandhi%20and%20Jinnah.htm


Yasser!! Please ignore if the recent exhibitions of bigotism and irrationalism are just attempts to pull the Indians leg!

No yasser, your mother told me that... I know real cause of your frustration...

Jinnah and no egocentric ambitions!! my foot.

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The frustration of the poor Indians ... now resorting to all kinds of obscenities... is palpable.


When you can`t speak with logic... you speak nonsense.... which is why the Indians here talk nonsense most of the time.

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Re: # 446

You see.. you forget that you are talking about Jinnah... not Gandhi.... no egocentric ambitions... He was offered governorship on several occasions in the 1930s... by Ramsay Macdonald... which he repeatedly refused... and even in 1947... he had announced his retirement... it was the League second tier that thought and rightly so that Mountbatten would screw Pakistan over. You see this mythology that you Indians create is based on your narrowminded thinking process and the lop sided intellectual development... It is ironic that Jinnah would have chosen to become the GG of a smaller state instead of the PM of a larger one... Besides... that doesn`t explain why he was ready to accept the Cabinet Mission Plan...

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Re: # 433

No... a nicer way of saying that you are a dishonest crook.. just like your Mahatma

Yasser,
Man dedicated all 40 years of his life to get nothing but post of ``governor general of India``... This man always dreamt of himself as a khalif of muslims.

He was a true traitor to Pakistan. Had Pakistan been his goal he would have left a solid second layer of leaders. He was a dictator.. Admit it.

Now when you are short of arguments, you are down to quoting sadak-chap shaiers !!

Re: # 442

There is no accounting for bad taste in humor...

Re: # 438

Ainslee Embree is an American professor from Columbia University

Late H M Seervai was the foremost constitution expert from India, and a man of towering integrity.

Stanley Wolpert is a Professor of History from UCLA.... though I haven`t quoted him for 5 years.


Obviously you would take an illiterate guy any day... an illiterate guy would be easily cowered into believing your little lies.

Re: # 435

A man who dedicated 33 years out of his 40 years of politics to the unity of India and the betterment of its masses.. doesn`t fit the bill that you are putting up.

Gandhi didn`t make up for any thing... he kept true to his bigotry till late in life... as Ambedkar`s writings prove...

As Zafar Ali Khan famously said a couplet:

Eik heen hain Savarkar aur Gandhi
Jhoot ka chalta hai eik Jhakkar, Makkar ki uthti hai eik Andhi

Translation.... Savarkar and Gandhi are ONE! One is a storm of lies, the other a storm of deceit.

As for your earlier point ... I am sorry any book based on a partisan source can give you insights about the various view points... but cannot be taken to be a historically accurate book. Wolpert on the other hand is just a historian ... though I am not sure why you keep mentioning him.

As for ``flattering light``... Ayesha Jalal`s book doesn`t paint Jinnah in a flattering light... but it is my favorite book... because it is honest in investigation. I don`t expect the Mahatma`s followers to understand honesty.