Mahadev Gobind Ranade (1842-1901)

Re: # 521

The only problem here is that I am not a Qadiani... nor am I accusing Gandhi of not being accomodative... I am accusing him of being a racist bigot who enlisted in the very non-non-violent army of South Africa to kill black people.

First Harish hyd`s foot in the mouth disease...

Then ... Gujju`s comments about KSE..

and now this?

You Indians really must be getting desperate.

I think Indians on this forum should know some aspects of Partition, so that they
know why YLH behaves the way he does.

The demand for Pakistan was supported by a lot of Qadiani`s in pre-Partition India
and there were many leading pro-pakistan politicians who were Qadianis.
The Qadianis thought that by creating an islamic Pakistan they could get more power
and also be able to be recognized/accepted by the sunni factions. There was a section
of conservative mullahs in India (such as Maulana Azad, who is falsely
portrayed as being secularist in todays India), who did not want
partition - not because they loved India - but, because they believed partition
would make it harder for them to convert the kafir-India into a Dar-ul-islam.

However, after Pakistan was created as the homeland for muslims, the sunni-factions
gained considerable strength and threw out the Qadianis. After all, from the sunni
perspective, Qadianis are not muslims.
The Shias are also considered kafir by most of the
sunni leadership in Pakistan. I would not be surprised if Ismailis get thrown out
as being kafirs sometime in the near future.

YLH`s new found love for secularism is because of the treatment being meted out
to qadianis and shias in Pakistan.
Now, YLH quotes the paki academic Ayesha Jalal and Seervai - blaming Gandhi and
Congress for not being accomodative enough !!

How the times have changed :))

A warning : this is a long incoherant post. Read it if you must. ;)

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Haha...Pakistanis talk a lot.None more so than Mantooo. There was a lot of talk about how the Pakistani IT industry is set to surpass India`s IT thanks to (what else..lol) `the superior english speaking skills of Pakistanis`. Never mind India`s IT sales are over 400 times that of Pakistan`s and grow at a rate of 30% p.a.. Lately they have been yapping a lot about their stock exchange , KSE ....about how it`s index has crossed 10,000 points and how BSE`s index was only worth 6500. Never mind that the market capitalisation of KSE at its best was $40 billion while that of BSE is $408billion.

They have to understand that empty boasts can only do so much...ultimately , only the fundamentals and the facts count. Eventually you will be found out. This applies particularly to Manto.

See this >>

---

from Al Jazeera.com

Police guard Pakistan stock exchange


Friday 25 March 2005, 12:57 Makka Time, 9:57 GMT


Shareholders protested outside the Karachi bourse on Thursday


Related:
Investors riot at Karachi stock market


Paramilitary troops and police are guarding Pakistan`s main stock market as officials investigate an alarming stock market slump that led to a riot by angry shareholders.


The country`s shares watchdog and officials at the Karachi Stock Exchange, or KSE, said on Friday they were investigating the possibility of irregularities or manipulation by big brokerage houses.

Hundreds of shareholders threw stones and smashed up cars on Thursday after the exchange prevented them from selling their loss-making holdings for a sixth consecutive day. Five people were arrested.

Armed rangers and police were searching people and checking their identity cards as they entered the Karachi exchange, witnesses and police said, while four mobile police vans were stationed outside the building.

The KSE-100 index of blue-chip shares reached an all-time high of 10,304.72 points on 15 March but continued to fall on Friday to 7940 points at a pre-lunch break.



Insider trading?



Pakistan`s Securities and Exchange Commission has brought in a string of reforms in recent years to check possible insider trading and market manipulation by big brokerage houses.

After fears that economic fundamentals did not justify recent stock market gains, the watchdog launched an investigation, its chairman Tariq Hasan told AFP without divulging the findings.

``We had sent a team of our experts to Karachi but this is a routine practice of ours as a regulator to check abnormal activities at the bourse,`` he said.


KSE director Moin Fudda said that initial investigations showed the market was being manipulated by ``someone big`` so they could buy shares cheaply from desperate smallholders. He did not elaborate.



Historic recovery



``Reforms have largely checked the chances of manipulations and it is not being done at the levels of say 10 years ago, but there is still room for further improvement,`` Mohammad Sohail, director of Jahangir Siddiqui Capital Markets Limited, said.





Dealers had said last week that the breaking of the 10,000 point barrier marked a historic recovery for the KSE, which hit a low of 1401 points on 15 March, 2001.

But the rapid rise of stocks in recent weeks prompted fears of a crash.

``The situation is quite worrisome at the market so far and let`s see if investors can settle their deals amicably,`` Sohail added

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A parallel can be seen in this manto`s anti-Gandhi-pro-Jinnah obsession. Manto may fret and fume for as long as he wants to...post quotes and volumnous texts from wherever he wants to....but fact is he is just a little man thowing stones at the stars , cursing at the top of his voice.

The whole world knows Gandhi. Nobody has ever heard of Jinnah other than subcontinental types. The movie made on Gandhi was a hollywood blockbuster, and a major winner at the Oscars.

(By the way I saw the movie for the nth time 3-4 years back. Now that I remember , Jinnahs comes across as almost an arrogant villainous character. We in India never pay much attaention to Jinnah. He is of no consequence to us. Whats gone is gone. Whats over is over. We have moved on. Its only after I began to visit chowk did I see Jinnah getting so much mention , and realised how much he means to the pakis. And all the anti-Gandhi attacks by Pakis is because they think Gandhi means to us as much as Jinnah means to them.)

What was the fate of the movie made on Jinnah ?

And I am no admirer Gandhi. If anything , like most Indians of today I detest Gandhi , Nehru and what they stood for. Glorification of poverty , socialism , pacifism , contempt for military , forgiving accepting of muslim fundamentalism while severely castigating hindus in the name of secularism and so on. I fully empathise with a true Indian patriot , Shri.Nathuram Godse who shot dead Gandhi because of the damage he was doing to independant India - like fasting to force Indian government to give away 1/3rd of its treasury to Pakistan while India and Pakistan were engaged in a war over Kashmir province.

So if an Indian made the points that Manto has , about Gandhi being a nut case , as Agneya Panja did in Sulekha , most Indians would totally agree with that and level the choicest abuse on Gandhi.

However , Agneya Panja`s intentions are different from those of Manto`s. Agneya is an Indian patriot and hates Gandhi because Gandhi , Gandhians and Gandhi`s idealogy in his honest opinion are anti-India.

Manto gleefully attacks Gandhi because he thinks Gandhi is an Indian icon , so by running down Gandhi , he gets one over Indians ...He basically says - `Look , the guy you call Father of your pathetic nation was a crook , racist , pervert etc. HAHAHA. While our man Jinnah wore 3-piece suit , your man Gandhi dressed like a beggar. HAHAHA.`

So basically Manto imagines himself to be Jinnah , wearing 3-piece suit , speaking with a haughty cockney accent , while he imagines the Indians to be just like Gandhi. Filthy half-naked beggars who speak baad english.

I hope the guys here understand the point I am making.


That is why we have seen such an extreme reaction from Indians to Manto`s ranting against Gandhi. Because we know an attack on Gandhi by Manto is really an attack on us. On our country.

Re: # 517

So lame jokes and repetitive posting is your only way of countering?

I have already said that you are free to conclude whatever you wish... why must you insist on proving your foolishness ?

Tahmed...

We can`t take a person out of his times undoubtedly...

But consider that 10 years before Gandhi was enlisting to fight to exterminate the blacks in South Africa... Dadabhoy Naoroji was fighting for racial equality in England and women`s rights to vote... supported by a young man called Mahomed Ali Jinnha.

Dear YASSer:

I came one last time just to see you squirming, and squirming you are. Still no answers?

Re: # 513

Dear liar... please don`t give me any last chance. You are free to believe whatever you want.

Like I said Mahatmas and their followers have a penchant for deluding themselves.

Re: # 511

did you know that Gandhi hated the blacks so much that he even went to war against them as a seargent major in the South African army?

So much for ``non-violence``

Re: # 512

Doobtay ko tinkay ka sahara.

The same tahmed you have been condemning on other boards.

#511 by Mantolives

Still no answers? No probs, continue spamming. Will be back tomorrow and see if you have some answers. I`ll give you that one last chance.

#508 by tahmed32

You make some very good points.

Re: # 508

tahmed ...

I feel that the Gandhian myth needs to be exposed... look here is a man who espoused identical views as Adolf Hitler on racial purity... I am afraid the Indians will have to make up stories to defame Jinnah.... besides they have done all that they can..

With Gandhi... I think it is the truth that needs to come out. Ranade was a true gentleman and a honest person... historical Gandhi was not... he was lying deceiving racist crook.

Please read a book called ``Behind the Mask of divinity`` ... by G N Singh of the Secular Humanism institute of the US.

#508 by tahmed32

Excellent post.

Re: # 506

Lame comeback as usual...

ylh: Surely you will agree that compared to some of the real villains in history (like Hitler or Stalin or HiroHito), Gandhi comes across as a saint. I hasten to add that he was no saint - but then, no human being is really a saint. We all have our prejudices and shortcomings. In addition, we cannot take a man out of his times and compare him with standards that did not exist at the time. So, even if Gandhi was prejudiced against africans, he was certainly not alone. I saw an african student in Pakistan being made the butt of jokes by Pakistani students who had him sit down with them in the government college dormitory and start asking him ``racist`` questions like whether he preferred white girls or brown girls or black girls and laughing their heads off no matter what he said. Similarly, I worked with white South Africans who were among the finest people I have known.

So let us give Gandhi a break. Look at the bigger picture - his idea of nonviolence inspired MLK and the highly successful and yet peaceful civil rights movement in the US. It is the idea he espoused for which he will be remembered in history, not his personal views about africans. I realize that Jinnah and the prophet are similarly picked on by some of the indian posters on chowk - but dont allow yourself to be dragged down to their level. You wrote a fine article on a little know but right-minded man who happened to be a hindu - I am sure you can take the same high road with Gandhi.

Re: # 505

But I should expect such dishonesty from the followers of Gandhi the racist bigot.