Swami Vivekananda and Malcolm X

I too have read this stuff a few times over. Each reading has strengthened my initial, extremely poor opinion. Each pass has revealed more unacceptable weaknesses in whatever passes for arguments here.

I am now far less uncertain about the suspected influence of intellectual dishonesty or stupidty or both. But it`s an author`s privilege to make any kind of arguments (s)he feels inspired to make.

Ok bjkumar, I accept your apology. I have to say things strongly sometimes so people will understand what they didn`t understand before. Its all about sharing perspectives right? :-).

Re: # 9

Kaalchakra, while I concur with you on the Indian-Africa connections, I`m not sure why you`re so horrified by the Malcolm-Vivekananda equation. As far as equations go - they can all be scorned on some level or another but I prefer to look at the intention and effect. A connection between S. Asians and Africans is one we should make if we`re at at concerned about justice on a global scale. Making that connection enabled many movements for emancipation on both continents and in America. Why scorn it if the motive is good??

Tupak

We need to separate the identity of Africa from that of Malcolm X.

India and Africa are sister civilizations. We must give Africa more support and greater affection. We should reconnect with its poeples, and make new connections where we did not have them before.

Malcolm X is a completely different issue. Supporting, not supporting, or opposing him, is a moral-ethical question. People will see him very differently, depending on their own moral-ethical roots and traditions.

(Half seriously, we can safely ignore the lunatic fringe among white liberals - morality requires a sense of reality).

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For most followers of Asiatic religions, people raised with an oriental moral sensitivity, it would be hard to mistake a Malcolm X for a Vivekananda. Similarly, not many Asians beyond teen age years (when every person of the opposite sex is a god or a goddess) would confuse a Bin Laden for a Mohandas Gandhi.

We see too many differences, and too few commonalities, other than they are all human beings and want very human things.

In the Asiatic view, the needs, wants, desires, or objectives are not sufficient to define the main or the core human being. They describe our jad - our physical or animal level. That is not the chief realm of our religions.

Because we see them as sharing the same physical and animal tendencies as us, Malcolm X and Bin Laden may win our curiosities. They may even amaze some of us as part of the world`s great oddities. But they don`t rise high enough for us spiritually to win our respect in a moral/ religious, role-model sense.

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Tupak, for the well-wishers of Africa and India, it`s not wise to insist that India and Africa connect only throuogh Malcolm X or his paths. It`s time to return to our own very native connections so we can move ahead jointly, without being dragged down by the baggage of Malcolm X.

Re: # 20

Kaalchakra, I`m not suggesting that S. Asians and Africans connect *only* through Malcolm X. I see the connection as being one of people who have both experienced their lands being turned into a warren for raw materials for capitalist expansion, with the collaboration of local elites. In the case of Africa, it was far more tragic because human beings were trafficked. As for
``In the Asiatic view, the needs, wants, desires, or objectives are not sufficient to define the main or the core human being. They describe our jad - our physical or animal level. That is not the chief realm of our religions.``

Many would disagree with such an overarching conclusion. I don`t think there`s some monolithic ``Asiatic view`` - do you? How are Shinto, Confucianism, Islam, Naga religion, Tamil Saivism, Christianity, Manu, Buddhism and the religion of the Irulas of the Nilgiris intrinsically similar in some primordial ``Asiatic`` way??

I should amend what I originally said. I think Dalits and other oppressed peoples in S. Asia understand full well what connects them with Africa - not something primordial but the experience of a particular kind of oppression that cannot be tolerated by simply elevating one`s mind to ethereal realms. Even Buddha said that starved and mortified bodies cannot in any way lead to spiritual growth. So the struggle for justice - economic and social justice can be seen as a spiritual and moral one rather than being an ``animal`` need as you put it. And I don`t think Bin Laden and Malcolm X are any more similar intrinsically than Malcolm X and Vivekananda. Which connection do you choose to make, is the question. Malcolm X was not a secret cultic figure - he openly wrote, spoke and organized. Not in favour of some wishy washy ethereal stuff but for real issues of justice that struck right at the heart of an exploitative system. He doesn`t amaze me as an ``oddity`` - as you put it in that latently racist way - but because I am totally with his view of human emancipation, and the outrage against injustice that it should call forth in every moral person.

Tupac

Africa and India share much more than what you have identified. We also agree that Africans need justice and better economic conditions.

We disagree over the effectiveness of Malcolm X and his chosen paths in delivering anything good in the long-term, whether it is economic prosperity or religious peace and justice.

Let`s get busy working for Africa`s benefit. It will be very racist of us indeed to insist on first resolving our won Malcolm X differences before we extend our African cousins the hand of our friendship and cooperation.

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Malcolm X was black. Yet the debate about the wisdom of his ways is neither about nor limited to Africa. It is part of a larger debate finally and rightly intensifying on the global scale. The debate which is deeply questioning the formerly unquestioned, easily-made, and blindly repeated claims about the divine and social claims of some people. The debate about which human ways are right and which ones are wrong and even harmful.

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There is a strong common thread of Asiatic religious spirituality running through Shinto, Confucianism, Naga religion, Tamil Saivism, Buddhism and the religion of the Irulas of the Nilgiris.