Neither Enlightened nor Moderate

hahah expect shri harish jee and shri arjun jee to immediately stoop to their real levels -- and echoboom (urf lunatic) -- this was reported in ALL major newspapers, including Dawn --other than nawai waqt and ummat i wonder if you read anything else -- never get into a debate unless you know what you`re talking about echo

in any case what I am trying to say is that it is the claim of one of the involved parties -- the govt is giving no figures or underplaying the damage -- one side is overplaying -- the real figures no one really knows, or at least an INDEPENDENT account of the casualties and deaths is not known -- wonder if you know what that means shri arjun jee and shri harry potter jee -- amanaullah kanrani is secy general of the JWP whose chief is akbar bugti -- shri arjun jee this is what happens when your whole life revolves around cut and paste and you have no idea of what you`re quoting --

#50 by taqat-e-parvaaz

[you`re ape race feels no remorse or sentiment, thereby leading to the butcher of innocents where pregnant mothers are ripped open and inscribed with the filthy words `OM`.]

You`re perhaps forgetting the fact that your race perpetrated the most horrific genocide history has ever witnessed, perhaps second only to the Nazi Holocaust. At least the Nazis didn`t rape the Jewish women they eventually slaughtered, the way your fathers and uncles did in B`desh when they were literally caught with their pants down by the Indian Army. And here you are ponitificating us on the riots in Gujarat. Man, your standards are hard to beat, you should be talking to the skinheads, who will better understand you.

[ i`d take a cavity search any day....]

So a cavity search it is for you.

Re: # 49
perhaps, but then again, i`m a warm blooded human. you`re ape race feels no remorse or sentiment, thereby leading to the butcher of innocents where pregnant mothers are ripped open and inscribed with the filthy words `OM`. i`d take a cavity search any day....

#47 by taqat-e-parvaaz

[we`ll see who`s on the end of a leash when the time comes. vegetable samosa, you bhindian? hahaha....]

Looks like the repeated cavity searches have driven you insane.

well lookie here...

guess this will be accepted as good journalistic practice...

Dera Bugti calm but tense: DAWN

A large number of injured people were admitted to hospitals in Quetta, Rahim Yar Khan and Multan. ``Around 60 tribesmen, including women and children, were killed in the FC attack,`` Senator Amanullah Kanrani claimed while speaking at a press conference on Friday.

Balochistan imbroglio : DAWN

It is so easy for the government to blame the Sardar for the mess. In the public mind it appears as if Akbar Bugti is the chief `problem` and once he is out of the way, things will be hunky-dory. In fact, the real problem is the lack of democracy. The denial of a sense of participation to the people of Balochistan lies at the heart of the matter. Since the people of Balochistan exercise no control over their resources, they are upset.

Re: # 41
we`ll see who`s on the end of a leash when the time comes. vegetable samosa, you bhindian? hahaha....

The noose around the moose is getting tighter

Does anyone know the reason why this news was not reported by any other major newspaper in Pakistan?

Omar Qureishi? Any job-losing, yet ba-zameer, answer?

http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=story_20-3-2005_pg1_3

Musharraf’s Bahawalpur rally: 2 killed in stampede

MULTAN: Two children were killed and 20 people including policemen were
injured after a stampede at a public meeting addressed by President
Musharraf in Bahawalpur on Friday.

Witnesses said nazims took thousands of people to the stadium at 8am to attend
the president’s address. The people were stopped from taking food and
water while no arrangements for water were made inside. The address was
due at 10am, but started at 3pm. The people had tried to leave the
stadium earlier, but they were not allowed to do so. After the speech
ended, the people tried getting out of the stadium and police pushed
them back in

#43 by arjun_m

LOL! Let`s see what Mullah Omar has to say on this one.

#42 by omar_r_quraishi on March 20, 2005 7:10pm PT


in the beginning of the said story, the two writers say they have learnt that the death toll is now 60 and then they quote akbar bugti
so it isnt very good journalistic practice to quote him on the death toll --


no kidding mullah omar......

If you pakis can use geelani`s statements about the ``killings of civilians`` in Kashmir, why can`t the world use the words of akbar bugti? Why is ok for muslims to use the words of involved parties to claim genocide but then turn around and deny the real genocide when it`s done by muslims...like saddam in iraq and the paki army in 71?

tell us again about the journalistic practices in paki papers..especially when they report on ``Indian atrocities`` in Kashmir...

sauce for the goose and all that, you know....

arjun_m -- a malicious man if i ever saw one whose single point of obsessive hate -- Pakistan -- seems to be the sole reason of his living

shri arjun jee the independent story you quoted has akbar bugti saying that 60 people were killed -- in the beginning of the said story, the two writers say they have learnt that the death toll is now 60 and then they quote akbar bugti -- shri arjun jee, you should know, or perhaps not i suppose, that mr bugti is very much part of this conflict, for the right or the wrong reasons is not the point here, so it isnt very good journalistic practice to quote him on the death toll --

#40 by taqat-e-parvaaz on March 20, 2005 4:29pm PT

shouldn`t you be at the end of trailer park Lynndie`s leash or something?

Re: # 33

you would say that to a retarded kid who said something against pakistan. arent you supposed to be at an RSS rally or something??

Zakk #38: As I said, the feudals and the military (at least the pre-90s military), the businessmen leaders, are intermarried. They formed one group. The meshed in with each other. The only group outside this has been the maulvis and the middle class. The only general who has remained outside this is Musharraf (perhaps because he is a Muhajir, and thus not interconnected into the power family structure of Sind and Punjab. The guy who was supposed to become the COAS was Ali Kuli Khattak. He is the son of the politically powerful Khattak, Ayub and Saifullah families. Which are furthur married into Chaudhry Shujaat`s, Ghulam Ishaq Khan, Bilour and other families. It is one big family enterprise, ruling the country from every direction.......

The feudals` power can be recognized by the fact that they fill the assemblies. I don`t know how else to look at it. It 60 - 66% of every elected assembly is feudal, then what does that mean? It doesn`t matter whether they are big feudals or small ones. What matters is that whose interests do they represent. Do they represent the interests of the peasant? Or do they represent the interests of the landowners?

It is not necessary for the largest landowner to be the most powerful politician. He could just be a member of a party, that has the most capable political feudal as its head. Like the Bhuttos of PPP.

You are correct about the Nawab families of pre-Bhutto days. I agree with that. I did highlight that. However, after Bhutto broke down the door, it is actual landowning families which have dominated politics. They are backbone of the major political parties.

This will slowly change. But very very slowly. Once again look at the percentages of elected members of assemblies. It has to fall to indicate that it is changing. The fact that maulvis have taken so many seats now, means it is changing. The maulvis have more of a peasant following. They have put farmers and mosque mullahs (the lower class) into assemblies.

But the best way is through a non-maulvi middle-class party. Which one cannot see on the horizon. MQM and TI are two. But they are not going anywhere. What else is there. Nawaz Sharif`s father was from the middle class (lower class actually). But Nawaz Sharif is one of hte wealthiest men in Pakistan. And his party is not an urban middle-class party, either.

Omair: Their is a significant difference between a feudal mentality and being a rural or industrial feudal.

As we have argued the subject before I shall be brief..

* The Bhuttos were never a major land owning family of Sind

* Nawaz Sharif was of a Middle Class family

* Almost all of the Bengali PM`s even if they were Nawabs were not land lords in the West pakistni sense, because of land reforms introduced in the 50`s Landlordism was not a fact in politicians from East Pakistan.

* The problem is that the ruling establishment allies itself with small power groups which are easy to control. Jamali, Junejo and most of the PM`s of the 1950`s (except Nazimuddn and Suhrawardy) fit under that powerless category..Sardar Mengal gave an excellent example of that when he said (responding to the charge that he is using Punjabis to cover him his defense of the feudal system) that whereas 3 Sardars were against the Federal govt (Mengal, Marri, Bugti) the remaining 20+ Sardars were all with the government.

If the system ever allowed a natural evolution to occur and stopped interfering you would have seen the growth of a stronger Pakistani Middle class and not one created by fraud and patronage.

Nighat I think you`ve got it ulta. It`s not enlightened moderation that Mush is propounding, it`s moderate enlightenment.