A Good Reason To Cheer

Urstruly: Now you are in trouble. One of our resident know-it-alls from India is here (#128 below). ha! ha! If you are not careful he will start smoldering in his own spite.

Urstruly #125

{{An aircraft is basically three systems:

1. Material
2. Mechanics
3. Controls}}

{{The production of light weight alloys is where Dr. Qadeer could have worked his wonders; in addition special high temperature metals used in turbine engines is also his line of expertise. For example, the centrifuges rotate at speeds exceeding 150K RPMS; keeping the integrity of an equipment at this speed and saving it from disintegration due to the friction of material being centrifuged is only possible when special metals are used in its production.}}

That is a brilliant suggestion – set Dr AQ Khan to work making single-crystal turbine blades. The great metallurgist should master them in no time. The rest of the engine, as well as the airframe are comparatively a matter of routine.

{{The toughest components of the three are 1. and 2.}}

I’m just a wee bit worried about the ‘controls’ (number 3, which you believe is not so tough). IIRC the F-16 is a fly-by-wire aircraft, and moreover is neutrally stable. It won’t fly too well without the proper control laws. Those laws are probably implemented in software, in EEPROMs somewhere in the flight control computer. Unless you can decode or replicate those control laws, your cloned aircraft may just fall out of the sky or may never be capable of full-scale combat manoeuvres. There may be several other vital components whose function is similarly implemented in software. Not a pleasant thought …

But perhaps this is merely my skeptical lack of faith. For the true believer all things are possible and no obstacle is too great – as Doctor Abdul Qadeer Khan’s own achievements prove. On balance you are correct – 5 years sounds about right to get a clone of the F-16 into the air, after which trivial details like radar and weapons systems can be worked out. Go for it.

Urstruly: As for Qadeer - I suggest you try to talk to any scientist from the Pakistan Atomic Energy Commission (the project managers for the nuclear bomb project) and you will realize that you know nothing about him. And the more you know, the more this man stinks - who can be more napaak then him for jeopardizing the sacred task of the defense of Pakistan for purposes of personal gain??

urstruly: while i agree that it is a sad day for all right thinking pakistanis (imho of course), but not for the reasons provided by nazir naji whose article you paste in #121. That is, while F-16`s may not be the latest technology (as he complains about) but whether they are necessary for the intended purpose. If the intended purpose is to provide an effective deterrent to India, then they are not necessary - Pakistan already developed missiles that are far more effective vehicles for developing nuclear bombs and thus has the necessary deterrent.

The reason it is a sadder day than even you seem to realize is because today:

1. We are going for an overkill in external defense with F-16`s. And therefore wasting money.

2. While we have an overkill in extrernal kill, we have an underkill in internal defense - as illustrated by the Mukhtar Mai case, which should make every ghairat mand pakistani man hang his head in shame. Where are all these islamic radicals who bomb shias while they say their prayers in mosques, who take to the streets at any pretext against the US, but are nowhere to be seen when 5 men rape a woman and are told by the high court that they can go free due to lack of evidence?? What we need is more chhittars for the thugs like these rapists, who roam around our countryside, and not F-16s.

Re: # 123 Romair

An aircraft is basically three systems:

1. Material
2. Mechanics
3. Controls

The toughest components of the three are 1. and 2. The easiest part in reverse engineering is the mechanics. The hydralics, mechanics, and profile of wind surfaces are not hard to reproduce in reverse-engineering. The coordinate measuring machines can recreate parts and moulds at the click of buttons.

The materials are crucial because of the stresses and strains that a combat aircraft endures during its service. The production of light weight alloys is where Dr. Qadeer could have worked his wonders; in addition special high temperature metals used in turbine engines is also his line of expertise. For example, the centrifuges rotate at speeds exceeding 150K RPMS; keeping the integrity of an equipment at this speed and saving it from disintegration due to the friction of material being centrifuged is only possible when special metals are used in its production. Pakistan has good specialized plastic manufacturing capabilities that are used in military and aeronautical purposes. I do not feel comfortable in going into details beyond that are in public domain.

The third parts is the controls, navigation, and aids such as gyroscopes, radars and weapon system etc. which is the hardest part in my opinion. Here we could make some compromises initially and could use borrowed equipment from other make of aircrafts such as mirages and Chinese migs. But it is an evolutionary process. I know a guy personally who was suppling NaPakAF with circuit boards at $20 a piece from a samll workshop in his basement with 5 or 6 apprentices; whereas original equipment manufacturer would`ve charged $1600 for same circuit board. So it can be done.

Dr. Qadeer has an additional attribute which no other man in Pakistan has; he can organize and manage things in this `andhair nagri chopat raj` and most of all he can get the things done.

re:#113 by mohar11
I am sure u have heard the oft-repeated cliche: there are no permanent friends, only permanent interests.
If u have been reading the news, China and India are going to sign a Free Trade Agreement when Chinese Premier visits India. Already, the trade is worth more than 16 billion dollars. A free trade agreement will make this one of the biggest trading blocks. However, you are right in saying that China will not give up on its strategic friend Pakistan so easily but who knows what trade can do? Ten years from now, when the 2 way trade is 60 billion dollars, there will be no reason for China to antagonize India.
US is trying to leverage India against China as it thinks of China as its rival in future. Why would US then do something as stupid as arming a military dictator with offensive weapons like the F16, knowing fully well that dictators do not stay on the job for ever and are either overthrown in a coup or worse still, assasinated. My response in that post was out of frustration at what happened. It did not make sense to me.
I am however also reading some news that tells me US is taking its relation with India to a new level. One has to wait and see. It makes eminent sense for US to forge a new strategic relationship with India like the one it has with Turkey or Israel. If that happens in the long run, this sale of F16 would not really matter, would it?
Sridhar
P.S: My usage of the term China camp was inappropriate. There is no such camp. I just meant China.

Urstruly #: ``My guess is that had Dr. Qadeer put in charge of that project we would have produced a better aircraft at Kamra Aeronautical Complex in the first five years.``

This is an interesting statement. Just out of curiousity, are you familiar with how military aircraft are designed and built? And are you familiar with Kamra Aeronautical Complex, and what goes on there? I actually worked there for a while. It is no doubt an impressive set-up. But could you highlight how Dr. Qadeer could have produced an aircraft there in the first five years. Or even in the first twenty years? What exactly would he have done?

WHY NA-PAK FAUJ IS A CURSE UPON PAKISTAN

WHY F-16S ARE A CURSE NOT A BLESSING

#116 by Urstruly on March 26, 2005 11:38am PT


My guess is that had Dr. Qadeer put in charge of that project we would have produced a better aircraft at Kamra Aeronautical Complex in the first five years.


Hey...maybe A.Q. Khan can reverse engineer a xerox machine and make Pakiland a hub of manufacturing photocopying devices....we all know he`s very adept at using one, from his time in holland...

Re #118 by kardesh

Hey you jehadi backbencher,
Here’s an answer to your questions:

“What is the air time using F-16s from Mauripur AFB to Ahmedabad or Gandhinagar (whereever Modi hangs around)?”

MORE than the time using Su-30MKI from a number of indian air force bases to Islamabad. How many Su-30MKIs can fit in Musharraf’s rectum? We won’t waste a plane on him – just a broomhandle would suffice.

Here’s a comparison of F-16 vs Su-MKI (manufactured in India currently):

http://vayu-sena.tripod.com/comparison-f16-f18-su30-1.html

Incidentally, India has been offered the F-18 (never had to beg like you guys, of course), AND the offer for Licenced production. They are actually bidding for a contract for the purchase of 128 fighters. We MIGHT choose to buy it. ONLY IF WE WANT TO.

Hey all you aeronautical gurus,
I have a few important questions:

What is the air time using F-16s from Mauripur AFB to Ahmedabad or Gandhinagar (whereever Modi hangs around)?
How many F-16s can fit it Modi`s rectum? - Pain is not a concern.
Will the Congress government allow these overflights for a humanitarian mission?
Can we get Al-Kayda pilots for the ``soft`` landings? The PAF pilots just have to take off and then jettison themselves before the border.

revathy: very good piece.
amrita: makki di roti in aangan ?
urstruly # 102 : grow up.
masanamuthu # 104 : grow up.

tahmad

As a Pakistani I think it is a day of shame for us. I just posted my last pot to put a garam aalu on Hindus behind because otherwise there is no reason for us to gloat.

The fact of the matter is that Pakistan has no reason to celebrate F-16. This is approximately 30 year old technology and we should have reverse engineered this piece of shit by now as Americans reneged on their promises and eat our money. My guess is that had Dr. Qadeer put in charge of that project we would have produced a better aircraft at Kamra Aeronautical Complex in the first five years. But fauji haramzaday need their kick backs and only if they get some time from insulting patriot Pakistani scientists and engineers. It is a day of shame for Pakistan, its engineers, and its scientists. Our heads hang low.

re: Amrita #86

Let’s see where we can start with this little gem of a post:

“I dont reply to `listers` - annoying cyber dwellers who have a list of rhetorical questions which they carry to every site and post in the hopes that someone might say something in reply so that they`ll have an opportunity to jump up and down and froth at the mouth with what they really want to say.”

“annoying” – Yes, when you don’t have a good answer for their questions.

“cyber dwellers” – Oh, and where do YOU dwell.

“rhetorical questions” – Umm let’s see – what does this mean? A quick lookup reveals the following:

``a rhetorical question is one asked solely to produce an effect (especially to make an assertion) rather than to elicit a reply``

So somehow she has divined (using her prodigious sixth sense) that these annoying “listers” don’t really want an answer to their questions. I see.

WELL I DO WANT AN ANSWER. If you are going to drag my countrymen’s reputation through the mud, then I WANT AN ANSWER, DAMMIT!

“I`ll listen if it isnt invective ridden and has a rational point to make.”

A “rational” point to make? And YOU decide if MY point is rational? I’m not very sure about your background, but I am actually very well educated at some of the best schools in India and abroad. And I keep abreast of what goes on. So my points might not be so irrational. And if they are, all you have to do is to suavely expose only ONE of these points for what it is – irrational.

Now lets look at some answers this paradigm of knowledge and intellect chooses to give:

“1. No”

– Short, pithy, pregnant with untold implications. Well, idiot, there is a POINT satyamvada is making. Hinduism does not believe in proselytizing, Islam and Christianity do. The prerequisite to proselytizing is to denounce other faiths as false. Which makes your pretentious second point “2. Part 1 - Any group that believes something that another group doesnt believe in?” null and void. Because that “Any group” does not include hinduism, you consummate idiot.

“Part 2 - Me?”

- NO, you are NOT a group, fathead!

“I dont think Gujju is worthy of interaction”

- try not thinking so much. Your brain may not be up to it.

“The day they form the govt at the centre while making noises about changing the state of the Indian republic, I`ll jump all over them too.”

- Okay, lets inspect this gem for a second. Govt at the centre…. Hmmm…. What party is in the Govt at the centre currently? The Congress, of course, and that paragon of human rights Laloo. Not to speak of that criminal Md. Taslimuddin. Let’s start with the Congress. It is chock full of people who were directly or indirectly involved in the govt that was in power when the anti-sikh riots happened. Where’s your shrill protests at THEM, you hypocritical nincompoop? And their efforts to suppress the report on that riot? And Laloo – it’s not even worth going there. Everybody agrees that he is probably the most corrupt politician of today, and callously utilizes religious divides to his own advantage.

Then as a last flourish, she adds:
“I dont support any group that preaches hatred against fellow Indian citizens.”

- Really? I have not seen you frothing at the mouth about the dozens of anti-indian muslim groups all over the country? Where did you once write about them? You imbecile?


You probably fancy yourself as a pure conscience, and a voice of reason. But it is pea-brained morons like you that will be the undoing of India.

Re: # 111

You could nt deny that Bush is angry with Modi because Modi is against conversions of Hindus in Gujarat, unlike the Pakistani or Afghanistani president.

Or that Bush is selling F16s to Pakistan now, out of frustration at independent Indias Iran-gas pipe policy.