A Good Reason To Cheer

Re: # 107 rs
//..This symbolic gesture has not gone unnoticed in India. We may see India verring towards the China camp...I think US foreign policy is run by morons.//

You think? please don`t: You are killing us ..... China sells nukes/missiles to pakis. So why should India ``veer`` towards ``china camp``? What the heck is a ``china camp`` anyway?

And why would US care even if India did veer towards any other camp? A country ruled by laloos and commies and other freaks - a country which can`t build its airports, roads, cities - who the heck cares which camp India goes to? Why would anybody want India in their camps?

#111 tahmed,

``Let me be your manager``
So you like carrying dugdugi :)

I think he is the same guy posting on Sulekha too. On F16 Sale!
http://www.sulekha.com/news/ThreadComment.aspx?cid=560924

``AMERICAN CHRISTIAN TERRORIST GOVERNMENT is the MOST HATED ENTITY on earth.

1.3 bil muslims HATE AMERICAN GOVERNMENT CHRISTIAN TERRORISTS
1 bil buddhists HATE AMERICAN GOVERNMENT CHRISTIAN TERRORISTS
European Christians HATE AMERICAN GOVERNMENT CHRISTIAN TERRORISTS
South Americans HATE AMERICAN GOVERNMENT CHRISTIAN TERRORISTS
Africans HATE AMERICAN GOVERNMENT CHRISTIAN TERRORISTS

I PITY the EVIL, CRIMINAL, SADISTIC, PERVERTED AMERICAN GOVERNMENT CHRISTIAN TERRORISTS and their PATHETIC, MISERABLE LIFE of having ONLY a SINGLE FRIEND israel in the world.``

parthaab: Another BJP genius springs out of thin air. ha! ha! Let me be your manager and I will start charging tickets for your brilliant thoughts.

THE ONLY REASON BUSH DISLIKES MODI IS BECAUSE GUJARAT HAS THE LEAST CONVERSION RATE TO CHRISITIANITY IN INDIA. EVEN STATES LIKE ORISSA AND BIHAR ARE DOING BETTER. COMPARED TO AFRICA ( WHICH GREW AT 40% LAST YEAR ), IT IS VERY BAD. AFGHANISTAN AND IRAQ WERE ATTACKED BECAUSE RELIGIOUS CONVERSION WAS BANNED IN THESE COUNTRIES. OTHER COUNTRIES, PAKISTAN AND AFGHANISTAN GET AWAY BECAUSE RELIGIOUS CONVERSION IS ALLOWED. AFRICA GETS HIGHEST AID MONEY BECAUSE CONVERSION RATE IS HIGHEST THERE.

BUSH HATES MODI BECAUSE HE IS MAD ABOUT CONVERSIONS. ONE RELIGIOUS FANATIC HATES ANOTHER

re:#108 by kaalchakra
Basically, US has struck a Goldmine with Mushy as the head of a country they badly need for fight against AlQaida. Mushy has being going around circles and there is nothing to show. OBL is still absconding. But Mushy is a good servant and US has just shown that it is a good paymaster.
Iran is unreliable. It is stupid to rely both on Iran and Pak for India`s energy needs. Both are Islamic autocratic regimes. India should latch on to the offer of nuclear cooperation by US and try to attain self reliance in energy from nuclear power. France meets 70% of its energy needs from Nuclear power. There is no reason India can`t.
Sridhar

HP is basically correct. I hope no Indian believes that international relations are ever anything more or anything less than realpolitik.

We should support and stand with Iran. We should do that even though when we find ourselves entangled in a conflict, Iran may not return us the favor.

Support to Iran will cause some damage to Indo-US relations. But realpolitik that will hurt us can also bring us a net benefit, if we are proactive about it.

re: F16 sale
http://www.newkerala.com/news-daily/news/features.php?action=fullnews&id=90357
Ha, ha.
Jubiliation in Pak over the purchase of F16.
Why jubiliation? The only people who should be happy should be the Lockheed company. This is not a freebie.
US, i think has shot itself in its foot. This symbolic gesture has not gone unnoticed in India. We may see India verring towards the China camp. Chinese premier, as everyone knows, is visiting India soon. I think US foreign policy is run by morons.
Sridhar

usrtruly: I thought you hated the pakistan military!!

Anyway, Pakistan doesnt need these planes. We can already set Modi`s chaddi on fire in the comfort of his home - and we can also set the burn the beards of your terrorist heroes` without using these planes.

re:#102 by Urstruly
Ha, ha.
Can`t imagine what your country will do with that aircraft when Uncle Sam`s whammy is in Mushy`s A$$. Seriously, do u guys think u can use it against India?
However, i know how u feel. F16 is like Gold. You can store it in your backyard but it feels good does it not?
Sridhar

Re: # 102

IN YOUR FACE HINDUS

..

nice one Urstruly..

Now folks like revathy and amrita have one more reason to cheer..

:-)

Re: # 94

Kaalchakra,
Yes, because the truth will expose those who want to use any excuse to create an atmosphere of violence, looting, plunder, and ``revenge.`` If they were upset at the Chaiwllas in Godhra, why didn`t they burn and plunder a Starbucks?

IN YOUR FACE HINDUS

Time to get t-shirts with Paki flag and f-16 on them

US to sell fighter jets to Pakistan
Reward to key ally in war on terror unsettles India
By Peter Baker, Washington Post | March 26, 2005

CRAWFORD, Texas -- President Bush rewarded a key ally in the war on terrorism yesterday by authorizing the sale of F-16 fighter jets to Pakistan, prompting India to warn that the move would destabilize the volatile region.

The president`s decision reversed 15 years of policy begun during the administration of his father. The United States barred the sale of F-16s to Pakistan in 1990 out of concern over its then-undeclared nuclear arms program, but Bush has forged a close relationship with Pakistan`s president, Pervez Musharraf, since Sept. 11, 2001, and considers his help crucial in the campaign against Osama bin Laden`s Al Qaeda terrorist organization.

Pakistan initially wants to buy about two dozen aircraft, but Bush administration officials said there would be no limits on how many it could purchase.

The administration tried to balance the sale by announcing simultaneously that it would allow US firms the right to provide India the next generation of sophisticated, multirole combat aircraft, including upgraded F-16 and F-18 warplanes, as well as broaden cooperation in military command and control systems, early warning detection, and missile defense. The sale of planes to India would require congressional approval.

Modi gets an unlikely supporter, Sri Sri Ravi Shankar

Aziz Haniffa in Florida | March 26, 2005 17:37 IST

Sri Sri Ravi Shankar, founder of the Art of Living Foundation and the International Association for Human Values, spoke at the annual convention of the Asian American Hotel Owners Convention on Thursday.

He provided the organisation with a show of support for its controversial decision to invite Gujarat Chief Minister Narendra Modi and took a dig both at the Bush administration for declaring Modi persona non grata in the US and the coalition of groups that successfully lobbied to bring about the US action to ban Modi`s entry.


Sri Sri, during a long interactive session with nearly 4,000 delegates attending the convention, was asked a loaded question in the midst of a spiritual discourse.

Asked to give his comments on how he views Modi, he said, after what seemed like a pregnant pause, ``I don`t comment on individuals because individuals are just part of one wholeness.``

Callous US, guilty Bush

Sri Sri, who recently spoke at the United Nations and the World Economic Forum in Davos, said the thoughts that come to every individual and the way an individual acts are not governed by collectiveness consciousness. ``Everybody is what you call a nimitta -- an instrument of the divine,`` he said.

But before all this could sink in, he asserted, ``So branding someone good or bad or right or wrong and boycotting them is meaningless is useless.``

Modi calls off UK visit

The audience exploded in applause.

``Every individual has done something good for society,`` he continued, ``and knowingly or unknowingly something bad might happen from an individual. So when someone does something wrong, don`t hold him a culprit all his life.``

Sri Sri noted that he and his followers `we go and teach our program in the prisons around the world and I look into the eyes of all those prisoners... they are beautiful people... they are nice people.``

Modi `live` at Madison

He argued ``situations, circumstances, might have made them do something, but we should be beyond all these little happenings.``

Sri Sri asserted that `I haven`t seen one bad human being on the planet. So, I don`t find any reason to excommunicate any one person. It`s really foolish.`

He acknowledged that `actually, I also got a letter asking me not to come to this conference -- to boycott it. I said, in my world there is nobody I can boycott and I am not going to do it. I am just going to come.``

`No racist undertones in visa denial`

The audience went wild.

Sri Sri then went on to talk about the unprecedented progress that was occurring in Gujarat under the Modi administration. He noted that more than 40,000 dams had been constructed in just one year. ``The water level has come up in Gujarat so much. People are so happy,`` he said.

``In the villages for the first time in many years there is enough water for the people -- even in drought-hit areas. So see the positive things that are happening and tell the person all the nice things the person has done. You will uplift the goodness in people,`` he said.

`Decision taken at the highest levels`

Sri Sri reiterated, apparently referring to the sustained campaign against Modi, ``If you always keep telling a person of all the negative things all the time, the person gets frustrated.``

re: post# 98 by HP
(Basically the US is not offering India anything to counter F-16 but merely allowing “the US companies to bid for contracts”. This really is no comfort. It is clear that the US does not regard the Indian objections to the F-16 sale legitimate and has ignored them completely. Instead, the US suggested that “the sale could increase Pakistan`s security with India” and than in the next breath the spokesperson says,” It is important for the Pakistani government feel secure,`` )
F16 being offered to Pak is a reward for its cooperation in countering Terrorism. Today, if even L.K. Advani is willing to visit Pak, one can be sure that much has happened to change the perceptions about Pak. Mushy is on a visit to India. The relations are on the upswing. All this is unprecedented. What most people do not see is the hand of USA in bringing this rapproachment. USA benefits strategically when India and Pak come closer.
While US is offering a F16 to Pak to appease its rulers, it realizes that there is a much bigger market out there in India and if USA does not exploit it, France and other countries are ready. India`s defense budget is huge and many top Aircraft manufacturers are vying for attention. It is not surprising that USA has agreed to co-production, thereby eliminating the possibility that it would ever stop selling spare parts as it is known to do at times of crisis.
Pak`s purchase of F16 is cosmetic. It is to appease the hardliners in Pak who have been after Mushy`s head and demanding some reward for all the cooperation that Pak has given to USA. Will Mushy use F16 against India? It will shown to be a good attack weapon for public consumption but given the changed (or fast changing) geopolitical scenario, Pak would be foolish to use it against India.
Sridhar

In barely ten days, it appears that the US-Indian relations have cooled off dramatically. First there was a lukewarm visit of Ms. Rice and right on the heels of that visit, the US embassy rejected CM Modi’s visa application and to top it all the US, which for a long time was reluctant to approve F-16 sales to Pakistan, turned around and agreed to sell them to Pakistan despite India’s known objections. The statement accompanying the F-16 approval seems kind of odd too. U.S. officials said the sale to Pakistan is the result of the deepening relationship with that country. He followed that up with ``It is important for the Pakistani government feel secure,`` one official said. ``It is in India`s interest that Pakistan feel secure.`` Why all of sudden Pakistan security vis-à-vis India has become a prime concern for the US? F16 is not a defensive weapon. It is a strike weapon and it actually impacts India’s security more than anything else.

We need to ignore all the hoopla surrounding the Visa denial to Modi. Coupled with the F-16 announcement, it is now clear that the denial was based more on political and diplomatic considerations rather than on some moral or humanitarian concerns.

On FV thread Feroz speculated, “I fear that Modi was denied a diplomatic visa, and India was diplomatically snubbed in the process, because India rejected ``United States` concerns`` over the planned the gas-oil pipeline from Iran, via Pakistan, to India.”
Urstruly correctly suggested, “ it is what now a days called ``Realpolitik``.

I am going to go a step further and add my two cents to suggest that it is way more than mere “realpolitik” and agree with feroz. I think we are looking at another crushing snub by the US.
Before people jump on me, please read this cold statement by the US spokesperson.


“U.S. officials said the sale to Pakistan is the result of the deepening relationship with that country. The official said that United States will allow U.S. companies to bid for contracts to provide F-16 fighter jets to India and additional defense technology, such as command and control and early warning systems. The United States will also beef up its economic, energy and trade ties with India, the official said. However, these officials said, the sale could increase Pakistan`s security with India at a time of improved relations between the two countries.” CNN.com

Basically the US is not offering India anything to counter F-16 but merely allowing “the US companies to bid for contracts”. This really is no comfort. It is clear that the US does not regard the Indian objections to the F-16 sale legitimate and has ignored them completely. Instead, the US suggested that “the sale could increase Pakistan`s security with India” and than in the next breath the spokesperson says,” It is important for the Pakistani government feel secure,``

The whole statement never refers to Indian concerns but places emphasis on Pakistan’s security couple of times.

Going by Feroz thesis, I could say that the US is really upset at Indian insistence on Gas deal with Iran but India also has a sort of mutual defense pact with Iran. Can that pact force India to stay on the Iranian side, if the US should decide to move against Iran?

Is the pipeline deal so big for India that it is willing to risk its relations with the US? I don’t think so. The deal is there but it will take years to complete the process and make the pipeline operational. The US intends to do something about Iran within the next two years or so. Certainly, India can wait to implement its pipeline deal with Iran for some more time instead of risking its relations with the US now.

The real issue is India’s overall dependence on Iran’s oil and Gas. I believe the US would like India to get ready to severe all its relations with Iran. OTOH, India appears to be totally against any US action against Iran as it will hamper its oil and gas supplies and that would certainly hurt India right away and the impact on India’s growing economy would be immediate.
Once the US forces enter Iran, first the US would have total control on oil and gas supplies, secondly, the war and possible civil disturbance in Iran after the US attack, may cause termination of the vital energy source to India.

Apparently, India and the US have conflicting interests in Iran and this could lead to deterioration of Indian and US relations in the coming months.
Pakistan as usual would sign on the dotted line. Thus, the reward…