A Good Reason To Cheer

Ashutosh - Whoever said that no one should be brought to justice in the Godhra incident was definitley not me. You kill somebody, you pay the price. And that should be applicable to everybody. But it is also true in India that the law is powerless against the legislature. Instead of asking Revathy or myself about things on which we have opinions and a single vote, why dont you write to your elected representative with all the power in the world and ask him what he is doing to represent your interests? If you want an equal rule of law, then force the issue on the man who took your vote and then ran with it to play the nasty games politicians play.

Salim - sure we need an international court of justice with real teeth which wont come no matter how many years milosevic grandstands in the courtroom. But to do that, we need everybody to come on board and they wont do that because through self-interest and other reasons (mostly humbug) they`d rather believe that their rule of law is superior to that which can be formulated by the international community. It comes under Soveriegnity, Threat to.

```I am not against Islam`` but I am anti-Muslim!


...... I am not sure if that is a good thing.

Various religious systems are either more or less amenable to promoting human happiness, welfare, and growth. By disallowing opportunistic and constant redefinitions of constructs and arguments, one religion can be decisively shown to be better than another religion.

This is the simple shastrartha of Hinduism and ijtehad of Islam. No killing of people is involved.


Anti-Hindu Muslims and anti-Muslim Hindus actually kill each other.

Ki mera Qatal kay ba`ad uss naa jaffa say toaba
Hi Us zood-e-pashman ka pashaman hoo na!


``Modi admits post-Godhra incidents were wrong

TIMES NEWS NETWORK [ FRIDAY, MARCH 25, 2005 11:37:52 PM ]

NEW DELHI: Gujarat chief minister Narendra Modi has for the first time admitted that the post-Godhra communal incidents were wrong.

In a television interview, Modi said ``whatever happened at Godhra or thereafter was wrong`` and ``this sort of happening is not good for any society``. The statement comes at a crucial time. A week ago, Modi was denied visa to visit the US on grounds that he violated ``religious freedom``. His proposed visit to Britain had sparked protests in the country. Modi in fact cancelled the trip after the Centre pointed out to him the possibility of a security threat.

But Modi said he was unaffected by such international rebuke. On charges that he is anti-Muslim, he said: ``I am not against Islam. I am against jihad, against terrorism, against cruelty towards anyone.`` He went on to say that any Hindu against Islam ``is not a true Hindu``.

```I am not against Islam`` but I am anti-Muslim!

re: Kardesh # 92

That will be both `proper` and the only feasible positive strategy.

You may now see why most of these beautifully-dressed people expose either their brains or their intentions for very serious questioning.

In case after case, they behave as if they need Modis for their survival. Every time, they stay as clear of resolving issues as they possibly can.

Protest against Modi in New York

http://rogouski.com/gallery/Protest-Against-Narendra-Modi/14_G.jpg

What about Feb 27th 2002?

Re: # 91
Gandhiji,
Absolutely. Murders are murders. Godhra must be investigated for the death of the 59 Hindu pilgrims and the murderers need to be tried, convicted, and punished. On the train, in the homes, on the streets, no person deserves to die at the hands of murderers. Even if the investigation reveals that the pilgrims somehow taunted or irritated their murderers, or flirted with some chaiwalli girl, there is no justification for murder. So, I agree with you - the deaths of the pilgrims are as unforgivable as the deaths of the people in Naroda Patya.

#90 & #89.
There is no need for international crimes. What we need an efficient judicial & police system. In india only 2% of the arrest result in prison. That is what needs to be improved, not someone other UN organization.
The people protesting against modi in new york are concerned about killings after godhra. I still cannot understand why cannot both godhra and aftermath of godhra be condemned in a same sentence.
There was a banner held by one activist saying that ``Feb 28th- March XX. We will never forget``. How can these people forget Feb 27th. Why is it not despicable for 59 hindus to be burned alive? Cannot hindus return safely from ayodhya pillgrimage?
I ask people like revathy, amrita, kardes whether the 59 hindu men, women and children deserved to die? Does the murderes of those 59 hindus deserved to be brought to justice? Would you symphatize with the killers of Akshardham devotees? If somehow Modi is killed (it wasnt safe for Modi to travel to UK), would you symphatize with those killers?

Dear Friends,

We usually give traffic violation tickets to mostly our own citizens. Is it asking too much to arrest them for rape, arson, looting, and mass murder?

Re: # 85
Arjun,
Another sad story of shame - rapes, murders, mutilations by those sworn to protect civilians. How can shameless governments sweep their own dirt under the rug and expect to point fingers at others? I think the world definitely needs an international crimes against humanity organization with real teeth. Defending rapists and murderers, whether there are my co-relgionists or whatever makes no sense - brutes are brutes.

Baal (jobless):

Hey, I`d ask how you were doing, but I`m afraid you`ll tell me. I`m not in the least bit surprised to see you around. Where else would you go after all? Are you Satyamvada? Or are you just posting to prove that you can? I see you`ve written a lot below. Was it all for lil ol` me? But I`m kinda selective about my reading matter - reading dept store flyers when I`m bored is one thing, your gibberish is another. Besides, who knows, secreted in that vast amount of matter might be more unneccessary details about the playacting between you and your wife that has such beneficial effects on your sex life as you once tried to explain to me and I dont think this is the time or the place. I dont think there will ever be a time or a place for that. Anyhow, :) etc.

Re: # 77 Amrita Didi (BA Hon.)

Are you still here. I thought you are busy on that creative piece and a plea to the local senator and congressman on behalf of professional dirty linen washer Allahrakhis and RaamPyari. Please tell me how far are you? The offer is on the table. To refresh your memory, I have included what I spoke then. pl dont use :)- etc... i used to kepp these things in a file (1987 onward) for ready ref. and have not fed to my software creation to convert it into text2voice

To my boorish farmer mind high funda verbage such as

>the right is as important to the survival of a country as the left

or

>whole secular-communal issue has polarized the Indian polity to such a level that the ordinary citizen is now being held hostage

does not make sense.

What is this polity/golity? Long time back in gulli corporate election I heard one Shambhu calling opponent Ramu that he is on the right, fascist and Ramu calling Shambhu liberal etc. Both were IV grade napass. It was very confusing right was supposed to be wrong. I learnt at age 8 that who hide
behind FUNDA verbage have their understanding big UNDA. I know when FatimaBibi is equal member of Charanpur Panchayat there is no left no right, there is no yin or yang it is wholesome one samadhi yog at community level.

Keep it in mind there is no Hindutva or RSS monster. They are just a reaction to marauding booked legions of 4th, 7th and 19th century. They also are reaction to Murdochism, MtVism.

This chowk was introduced to me by one Pakistani female writer. She had emailed me and my wiffe about Gujarat riots. Probably a good intentioned soul but utterly confused (westernized divorced Dhobi ka kutta na ghar ka na ghat ka) one. I offered to give $250K. She wanted me to give it to Sabrang. I conveyed - I know a Swami who is a civil engineer by training in Ahmedabad. You bring from Pakistan $20K worth brick and morter. We will construct 2 room dwelling for affected people both Muslims and Hindus. -
I never heard from this writer thereafter. God grant her peace and prosperity and wisom to raise a good daughter. This is what Sri Sri Ravishankar is talking about.

To thwart onslaught of western garbage lot of vigilance is needed and to get rid of
this westen or alien garbage and eastern lethargy lot of tapas is needed. Yog, Pranayam and Dhyan (Zen) would make individual god in oneself and others. Otherwise you get farzana bibi who is trying to relate to distant Anais and treats with disdain Bahadur Nepali liftman. She talks of erotica which is mostly emotional roticca. She does not understand Bahadur does not need feel good, feel superior reading or writing. When he goes to Shiva`s temple, he sees divine union and its symbol Shiva`s penis and Mother Shakti`s vigina. He sees that divine union in him, in farzana bibi and in the electric motor which drives the lift. Thank God, Bahadur is not illeducated in a convent and has not read Anais, otherwise he would have read bibi`s lipstick, bump on the chest and rounded bottoms differently and pounced on her. Bibiji when you ride the lift next time thank Bahadur for giving you a lift. He is a better person than you. He may not be kalakar like you but he is better inside-out.

---

Long time back I saw a movie Bawarchi. There is a character Mita Didi BA Hons. in it.
The Bawarchi, Raghu told her ``Mita Didi! Ek Achha Kalakar (BA Hon. writer) Banane Pahele, Ek Accha Insaan Banana Padata Hai. Pahele Maafi Mango Krishna Didi Ki. Aise Nahin! Krishna Didi ko Ek Pappi Dedo.`` Soo Amrita Didi, give a pappi to yourself and go out to treat yourself better.

The 16 year old quote was in response to
>This tentativeness is not just in anticipation of marital sex – although when you think about it, it’s deeply problematical that girls are encouraged to view the opposite sex as potential rapists all their lives and then suddenly expected to jump into bed with an almost stranger. Rather, it arises from a variety of factors: learning to live with another person, his family, his past, his pets, his fetishes and introducing him to your own. Things that you can discuss ad nauseam before the formality of marriage but never hope to understand fully until you’re actually living together.
<

The piece by a swami was sent the 16 year old boy by another 16 year old quaker girl. Khaandani Jane here has healthy attitude towards sex and marriage. Premarital sex and divorce is rarer in many communities such as Quakers, Shekars, Mormons, Unionists and many other even new age groups. These folks and many in new generation are following Bramhacharya in true sense by dedicating to higher aspirations. They are into meditation, yoga, math/science competitions, competitive sports, mountain climbing and are athletes. If you choose to look for them you will find them. But if you have MTV America in mind then you will miss them.

Seriously, Can I expect one creative writing piece and another a plea to local congressman/senator for opening J1/H1 to Indian real linen-washers - common Allahrakhis and RaamPyaris. This will make some real difference so that they do not have to go to gulf countries. I am ready to pour hard earned $200k as seed money and then you manage and own the business.

>Touchy , touchy ...

Not at all! More irritated. It just that I had to shout while driving to get the meaning from dictionary.com. I could not make head or tail of what you were saying because of text2voice and mostly because of my Rs. 1 pm Marathi medium schooling till 11th grade. Also I am used to simple logical English sentences acquired in my BTech/PhD years. This reminds me another Bawarchi dialog - ``It`s so simple to be great but so difficult to be simple``, Raghu to school teacher Kashi.

I am trying my best to be simple. For that I had to unlearn many things. Made lot of money and career success but did not relate to money very well. Money hating and spending upbringing made life unbearable when money poured. Thanks to America, teachers and parents! This and learning to raise good family made me go back to where I cam from. I wish I had learnt Sanskrit and meaning of simple stuff such as what is man, sex vs procreation, marriage, children raising etc. Read Dnyneshwari, Geeta, Yoga etc. Got interested in roots of words and surprised to find Sanskrit roots to many many English words. Esp the words which matter the most. Trying to walk Gandhi`s talk ``Money is the trust given by society and one needs to use judiciously``. Another one to walk is ``Vasudev Kutimbakam.``

Did you wonder why AroonDhoti is not working for Bhopal and is not here:
http://www.bhopal.net/oldsite/22Novemberpressrelease.html
These Teesta Settlewad-s are permanenetly unsettled because wish they were born somewhere else. They only cause ``wads`` or discord, not solve real problems. Mostly confused but some times I feel they have different teeths for eating and for showing.

After some understanding love America the community and India the civilization. Hope to build in my own small way India the community. For that I should not pass through this chowk.

Probably all above words do not mean to you, hope the below one mean something.

Peace/Shanti/Shalom

Satyamvada - usually, I dont reply to `listers` - annoying cyber dwellers who have a list of rhetorical questions which they carry to every site and post in the hopes that someone might say something in reply so that they`ll have an opportunity to jump up and down and froth at the mouth with what they really want to say. If you want to say something, say it. I`ll listen if it isnt invective ridden and has a rational point to make. However, here goes -
1. No
2. Part 1 - Any group that believes something that another group doesnt believe in?
Part 2 - Me? (But I dont think that`s fair. I dont think Gujju is worthy of interaction but I assure you I have interacted with him a lot. Of course, he`s fairly unstoppable in his interactions but you can hardly expect me to match his fervor!!)
3. Whatever makes you happy

And for the record, if you were leading up to the point that there are other religious groups who are as intolerant as the Hindutvavaadis, then let me take this opportunity to tell you that I am aware of the fact and that I dont support them either. The day they form the govt at the centre while making noises about changing the state of the Indian republic, I`ll jump all over them too. But maybe you think I should register my protest against them right now? Is that it? Ok - Here it is.

I dont support any group that preaches hatred against fellow Indian citizens.

#69 by SyedAhmed on March 24, 2005 2:46pm PT


Pot...meet kettle...

An Army Insider`s Honest Expose of Atrocities in East Pakistan Debacle

We all know what followed. The army’s subjugation of East Pakistan resulted in untold misery for millions of innocent Pakistanis, the death of many thousands as well as the breakup of Jinnah’s original Pakistan. And as Siddiqi’s narrative makes apparent, all this happened so that the generals could maintain their hold on power. Since then, it has suited successive army generals to place the blame on Bhutto. But the pertinent question is: how many tanks, guns and soldiers did Bhutto have at his disposal? The answer, of course, is none.

Another fact the author emphasizes is the sheer profusion of war crimes inflicted on hapless Pakistani citizens by its own army. The reader comes across a devastated Major General Ansari telling Siddiqi that rape and brutality were widespread. The general also confesses to a complete breakdown in the “discipline of his junior officers [and that] there was little he could do to check their ``atrocities.” If junior officers had run amok, one shudders to think what the less-educated jawans got up to.

Siddiqi also exposes the infamous General Niazi who shamelessly defended the rapists by declaring that: “You cannot expect a man to live, fight and die in East Pakistan and go to Jhelum for sex, would you?” Even 30-plus years later, the fact that most, if not all, of these perpetrators got away scot-free, can provoke tears of rage and shame.

Tahmed # 75,

The feeling is mutual.
Despite my observations, I hope u r right about the pakistan & US relation.

Adios

Stuka #66,
Thank you for acknowledging our common views. I hope others, e.g. Amrita and Kaalchakra, join in to understand that the issue is Mr. Modo, the issue is UBL, and the issue was Sadman Houston - not the honor of Hinduism, or Islam, or the Arab world. When demagogues use these higher stages for their horrible plays, the audience blames the actors for what they see. The puppeteers are then free to claim that they weren`t even ``involved.`` Hiding behind holy and sacred symbols is the oldest trick in the book for scoundrels.,

Kaalchakra #70,
Yes, you are right in my opinion. Enough people have to come out and accuse the rascals, Modi, UBL, Tally Ban, and Sadman Houston, for what they are. They are scoundrels who will use anything, including mass murder, to accomplish their nefarious goals.

``maybe we could concentrate on the things that are really important to a country that hopes to make major strides on the world stage - economics, poverty, disease, science, technology, infrastructure....``

Amrita is obviously too dumb to realise that by raising a stink against economic reforms , by opposing globalisation , liberalisation and privatisation at every level , leftists like her are the biggest impediment India has as towards achieving the goals that she so nobly mentions above.

Hindutva is no danger to economic progress. Muslims may or may not be treated fairly in Gujarat , and Gujarat may have been the laboratory of Hindutva , but facts are that Gujarat has a booming economy that grows at China like 10%+ rate , minimal poverty , excellent infrastructure , high literacy...