My darling abaya!

Re: # 170

ntsyed,

...... your mealy-mouthed post/sermon would have been okay and one could mistake you for a harmless evangelical muslim who means no harm, but when you say, ``Let the truth be told, there is no other deity other than ALLAH, and to consider others as one is shirk – punishable by death in shari’a`` it puts you back firmly in the camp of wild-eyed jihadis who are bent upon wreaking death and destruction on the `unbelievers`.............. i hope you will reconsider your position before your iman drives you to suicide or homicide ..........

Reg. #165:
Jahanzeb, (I hope you don’t mind my addressing you by your first name), Allah is my witness this is the best way I’ve ever spent my time in my entire life. The things I’ve been able to ponder and find answers to in the last few days…it’s simply phenomenal and I hope you’ll experience the same soon, inshaAllah.

You said: “the thing is, the path you are choosing to bring us infidels to the light of your wisdom is completely wrong. i think most of the kafirs and apostates here have taken their unique route to reach the garbage pitt they are sitting in. the stuff you keep presenting before us is pretty start-up information which we have really chewed well and have digested. if you really really want us to revert to our father`s religion, try something innovative, for example some hard proof that neil armstrong really heard adaan on moon or some coffee cup left by the holy prophet PBUH on some distant planet when he went on his meraj. or for an easier task, you will have my faith if you reform nutty hamidm (i accept him as the chief heretic in here).``

This whole part says only one thing: you are scared sh*tless of your conscience, just as I used to be.

Think about it and you’ll see that you’re conflicted inside. You find more comfort in the defeatist mindset (“we have really chewed well and have digested”), yet you ask me to “try something innovative, for example some hard proof that neil armstrong really heard adaan on moon”.

I’m not a reformer, Allah reserves that power.

Now, if you claim to have studied the Quran, you must have come across the verses where Almighty Allah says that even if He made everything apparent to people, the disbelievers will not see, for they do not want to, and it is not a loss for the messenger because the disbelievers are fooling themselves. Case in point: Bani Israel and mann-o-salwa. Allah o Akber

There were many more and still there are many … search the ‘asexual reproduction of mammals’.

This breakthrough occurred last year Feb/March during a research by Japanese and Korean scientists. CNN Int’l carried this news may be only once or twice, and at odd hours; before that it had appeared in The Australian, yet the article has been removed from the link you’ll find in Google. The story has been suppressed by the non-Muslim media so effectively; it’s amazing how belligerent disbelievers can be. In this case, to me at least, it shakes the very foundations of the Christianity and Judaism.

As for your demand for “innovative” stuff, I believe you can find the answer further down, if you read patiently.

Your statement: “the thing that lures you into believing that we are confused or have some sympathy left for orthodoxity is mostly fatoor inside your mind. this is because we are after making you join our club too. believe me i am being honest.”

I know this is going to irritate Shaitann mardood and he will irritate you as a reflex, but the truth is that he sees you turning around, so he whispers into your mind to scare me away. Allah o Akber

With all due respect to your intelligence, there is no such thing as a void. Even in space it’s only a lack of air/atmosphere that we’re familiar with on this earth and have thus far been unable to identify what fills that space if it’s not air. Similarly, our minds are always occupied by one thing or another. If it is good that occupies the mind, losing it will immediately fill the gap with evil, and vice versa. And the struggle between the two to over power each other is what we call a bout of “conscience” and conflict, which causes contradictions in our statements and actions.

I simply could not give up when I see your statements full of such contradictions. Read you own post with utmost impartiality and complete honesty with your own self, it will not be difficult for you to find them. I may or may not live to see your next answer; therefore the self-accountibilty – a paramount tenet of Islam – is for none but your own perusal. I’m not looking for rewards or compliments, although I sincerely appreciate what you extend to me, but your honest self-appreciation is in order too.

Answers to your query:
1. may be I could find a reason if I looked for one, but it would be foolish of me to do so, especially after Allah has taught me to follow the map as it should be followed by the one in search of a treasure. It simply doesn’t make sense to look for reasons to reenter the abyss that kept one restless for the longest time, for the best description of such a person is “junky” in its truest form…ironic don’t you think?

2. NONE! But this is very important question for the following reason: On one hand you claim to be intelligent enough not to buy his (PBUH) message because you may believe he (PBUH) cooked it up himself. The claim implies that you consider yourself smarter than him. Now, if he was smart enough to write a book which is still intact and the remains the best seller through and through since its publication, then being the smarter fellow – to reject his concoction, perhaps you could come up with something better which could withstand the test of millenniums to come. Otherwise, by default you accede to his superiority, and then act utterly foolishly not to believe in his message – kinda like cheating yourself from moving on to bigger and better things in life.

3. I’d say pretty good, considering the fact that Omer bin Khattab (ra), Khalid Bin Walid (ra), Abu Sufyan (ra), and many more like them used to be staunch enemies of the Prophet (PBUH). The first two mentioned were very close to killing him (PBUH) at point or another. But then, by Allah’s infinite mercy they made the turn around and became best of Muslims ever. The common factor amongst the three and their ilk is that they made the turn around after they “sought” the truth and were “MEN ENOUGH TO APPRECIATE IT WHEN IT WAS APPARENT TO THEM.” Others who did not seek the truth remained in darkness, and I’m grateful to Allah for not being amongst the latter group, let alone the wish to flip over backwards in every sense of the word.

4. There are many reasons (a couple of them I mentioned to earlier on this board), but that’s irrelevant because our uniqueness as humans presents similar but unique circumstances to each of us. It is not necessary what caused me to cross the chasm will do the same for you. By the same measure, your reasons to stay away from Islam COULD NOT REPEL OTHERS either.

Secondly, how “intelligent” would you be if you believed someone/something for its tangibility? Even a child or a grown retard can identify things his memory relates to? For example, I’m sure you’ve seen those kiddie puzzles with a picture and hidden shapes in it. The children are asked to find the shape(s) hidden in the picture. Which child would you consider more intelligent: the one who looks hard, effectively deploy his search skills, and finds most of those hidden shapes or the one who can only identify the conspicuous few?

Allah could make Himself apparent to us to in His true form for us to believe in Him, but then we’ll be no better than the colorblind animals and critters, or would we be? By the way, He has promised to do so for the dwellers of highest jennah – the best of the believers!

N. Armstrong may or may not have heard the adhaan on the moon, but the intelligent do not follow the rumors and hearsay and what they are able to discern with their five senses. They use their most powerful sense – the ability to think rationally, of which logic is a subset – to find the truth and do not relent until they do. Giving up due to the imperfections of others renders them even more unintelligent than they used to be.

Sorry for the extensive answers, but masha Allah the intelligent questions you pose cannot be answered with one-liner, lest they are taken completely out of context.

Finally, about reforming hamid-pia-kuchh-na-kya, it is entirely up to Allah. He did not give this to power to the best of His creations – prophet Mohammad (PBUH), then who am I to attempt it. He brings everyone (who wishes to be brought) into the light when the seeker is ready for it, and Allah readies us all according to our strength, capabilities, and tendencies. Whereas, I don’t know anything about our friend beyond his login name and what he claims to be. Even he doesn’t know when he’d be ready for it. But he, and every one of us, has to keep trying and seeking. The innate human spirit of “surrender is not an option” should be used for its utmost potential and for its best uses.

Jazak-Allah-khairan wa m’as-salaam
Naushad

Re: #160, 163
Malik99, second only to Allah’s support, your support renders me speechless… except jazak-Allah-khairan ya akhi fil islam.

M’as-salaam

Re: #s 159, 161
Dear fellows, character assassinations are the easiest thing in the world as each and every one of us is imperfect, with the exception of the prophets (PBUT). What separates boys from men is to accept the truth when one sees it beyond the imperfection of the beholder. I’ll leave it at that for your self-analysis.

As for your search/questions about deities, I believe the problem lies here: “over the last few months i prayed like hell to all known and unknown divine beings, including al-lah and jesus, to have mercy on a dear friend dying of cancer”

Let the truth be told, there is no other deity other than ALLAH, and to consider others as one is shirk – punishable by death in shari’a. Whether you care about it or not is another thing.

If you read Ibn-katheer’s “Qassas-al-Anbiya” – stories of the prophets (PBUT) mentioned in the Quran, this is similar to the mistake Yunus (PBUH) made which landed him in the fish stomach, which then sank to the bottom of the ocean. He had participated in a pagan/polytheistic tradition, even if reluctantly so. Furthermore, he (PBUH) found himself in that unpleasant situation because of his earlier folly when he gave up on his people out of sheer frustration caused due to their rejection. Had he not repented and begged for Allah’s forgiveness with “la ilaha illa anta subhanaka inni kunto min adh- dhalimeen”, we would not have known not to make the same mistake.

Though often I supplicate Allah for the same, I don’t want to give up on anyone just yet. I believe Allah will separate us when we have reached our limits.

“…its soaring ceilings and massive stone arches and i thought about all the poor people, dying of hunger and pestilence, who had toiled and died to create this monstrous edifice while.......... “

A very keen observation, indeed, that I made almost 20years ago while studying architecture. I vowed to myself never to design such places of worship, and I still do agree with you that the needy should be taken care of first.

But to deny Allah His due respect due to human weaknesses and give up on Him is, in a way, even worse; for we deny ourselves the chance to be better than those we despise in these cases. Now you’re back home, but unable and/or unwilling to do something about those poor so you felt sorry for, except of course cursing the ones you detest for the demise of the former.

Secondly, if I remember correctly, I read something pertinent in ibn-Katheer’s aforementioned stories of the prophet about Musa (PBUH). Musa (PBUH) once prayed to Allah to reward someone he thought deserved Allah’s best reward. Allah asked Musa (PBUH) if he wanted the person to be rewarded by his standards or by Allah’s. Musa replied, “of course, Yours, O Allah!” The next thing Musa knew, that person had died. Musa (PBUH) asked Allah, “why?” Allah told him, because this earth is not big enough to accommodate the reward for him that you requested. Allah o Akber.

Ponder over it, and also think about
*How would the circle of life continue if no one died – regardless of how the death occurs? If you believe in Allah, then you probably believe that He controls life and death. By that definition, it’s only due to His mercy that an apostate tyrant is able to die in order to escape his misery. Otherwise, he could lay haplessly paralyzed on his deathbed and suffer till the end of time. But Allah ends his pain and/or the pain of his loved ones, even if temporarily, for he will be punished in the afterlife for his sins unless he had repented when he had the chance.

*Death is nothing but “transition” from this life to the Akhira, and every lining thing in this universe must make this transition in order to continue living.

*If everyone had everything, how would the life continue? Wouldn’t that be defined as “Heaven”? Heaven has to be earned my fine-feathered-friend…not by dissent, but by submission and devotion to, and honesty with, Allah, one’s self, and others.

You see my stubborn friend; these things are meant to maintain the balance. Things only get bad when some humans become greedy and have it all for themselves at whatever expense.

Furthermore, both groups have to exist for each other to maintain faith in Allah. If there are no poor, one couldn’t feel sorry and eventually doubt whether he/she is alive or not. The ultimate wealth for all is in the life hereafter. Only, it is up to us whether we reach for it or settle for the “fani” in this life.

Once when I was in a dental chair for an extraction, I read something profound, probably written by a non-muslim (muslim=believer):

the poor wish for riches;
the rich desire heavens; but
the wise seeks tranquility.

That tranquility is unavailable in this world, particularly if one pursues mortal material. But it is promised in Jennah, if one cares for it.

By the way, except for Sulaiman (PBUH), and few others that I don’t know about, none of the prophets died with more than anything beyond the basic of their basics needs. In fact, when Prophet (PBUH) passed on, his armor was with someone as collateral in exchange for grains, and ‘Aisha (ra) had to borrow lamp oil from the neighbors.

“...........ntsyed and echo have a similar effect ............”,

I don’t know about dear my echo, but I’m glad to have some effect on you (chills down your spine is good start) vis a vis your secular wisdom having no effect on me. Instead, your defiance to Allah’s message provokes my thoughts and reinforces my faith in him ;-)~

As per your allusion to wealth and pomp of the so-called pious, there was a time when I had a six figure income and everything that comes with it. Now I possess nothing except the health and sanity of my loved ones and myself, our clothes, books, other basic necessities, and Allah is my witness, I’ve never been more content and at peace. Back then I used to cry out of agony and painful frustration for I could not get the bigger and better things my wife, kids, and I desired. Now the immense peace makes me cry when I notice that my kids (ages 5-13) donated EVERY SINGLE toy of theirs to the tsunami victims, because it would make Allah happy and help the little victims. Not even the 5 year old took anything back from it. Even today they do not ask for more than what I can get them and are grateful to Allah and then to me for whatever they have. On their birthdays they give charity to the poor from their savings, and as Allah has promised their little savings grow ten-fold … no exaggeration here.

Insha Allah you will see what I see, for Allah didn’t bring us together for nothing, even if anonymously.

Jazak-Allah-khair
M’as-salaam

Reg. #157
As-salaam o’alaikum wa rahmatullah, ya ukhti fursa sayeeda!

Wallahi, if I had what you ask me beyond what I have to survive, I would not hesitate to ask for raqam-al-hissabak.

Wa-idha, in-nallaha yerzaqu munyasha, wallahu ‘ala kulli shae’in qadeer! whenever I can I will insha Allah.

Besides, my meager knowledge is what I value most, thus I share with whomever I can, and expect they will share theirs with me.

Please pardon my gulabi Arabic, as you can see I’m at the beginning of that learning curve.

I like the name you’ve given me … it has a very affectionate ring to it.
Jazak-Allah-o-khairan ya ukhti.
M’as-salaama

humsab,

don`t say ``jazak allah khair`` to a waitress - she still wants a tip !

Humsab,

It means, ``May God reward you for your kindness.``

Anyone please

What does `jazak-Allah-khair` mean?

Regards

Re: # 150 dear nt jee,

see you are taking things wrong. don`t take this as shughal, my intent is only to bring on in some light so that you can better make use of your time and sincerity.

the thing is, the path you are choosing to bring us infidels to the light of your wisdom is completely wrong. i think most of the kafirs and apostates here have taken their unique route to reach the garbage pitt they are sitting in. the stuff you keep presenting before us is pretty start-up information which we have really chewed well and have digested. if you really really want us to revert to our father`s religion, try something innovative, for example some hard proof that neil armstrong really heard adaan on moon or some coffee cup left by the holy prophet PBUH on some distant planet when he went on his meraj. or for an easier task, you will have my faith if you reform nutty hamidm (i accept him as the chief heretic in here).

the thing that lures you into believing that we are confused or have some sympathy left for orthodoxity is mostly fatoor inside your mind. this is because we are after making you join our club too. believe me i am being honest.

all your persistance and friendly attitude is reall remarkable but you gotta understand the situation as it begs to be understood.

now some q&a time.

- can you tell me of any argument which can make you quit believing in islam?

- how many percents chance do you think is out there that mohammad PBUH cooked everythign in the book in his kitchen and blamed poor gabriel for the mess?

- repeating an earlier question, how many chances are there if you had born in the home of mr and mrs bush that you would somehow get to the universal truth, i.e. one and only islam?

- just to bring things on record, what are the real (i mean *real*) reasons that you are a believer?

jazak allah khair
malikjahanzeb

Re: # 163

malik sahib,

............. you really want me to rationally discuss the elements of usury and islamic banking with the likes of mr. ntsyed?......... i am sitting here looking at my statement from citibank pakistan where the rupee account shows a ``profit`` and the fe25 dollar account shows ``interest`` !!!! .......... but here is the kicker - unlike most good muslims, interest or profit, i am going to declare it on my tax return .....

........ you see, malik mian, there are some people who are quite beyond the pale and should not be humored ........ constructive engagement does not work with the lunatic fringe - it is a waste of time ............ eventually, as you pointed out, they will blow themselves up .............

hamidm #162 - ``sorry ..... the rules of civility do not apply to groups like the nazis, kkk, rss and others of their ilk ...........``

Hamidm sahib, had you countered ntsyeds arguments (right or wrong) with your arguments (right or wrong), your above statement could have been given the benefit of doubt.

But unfortunately, after resorting to the childish `nutty syed` kind of jokes, your statement now seems more like the rant of an illiterate mullah (who calls everything a `yahoodi saazish`), rather than the reasoning of a well-read and civilized human being.

Re: # 160

malik,

sorry ..... the rules of civility do not apply to groups like the nazis, kkk, rss and others of their ilk ...........

Re: # 159

temporal mian,

...... people like echo abdul hate scare the crap out of me because inspite of my protestations to the contrary, my blasphemous attitude and disdain for conventional religion, i am a deeply spiritual person (don`t laugh !)............. the problem is that my faith is kind of quirky and a little erratic ............ for example, over the last few months i prayed like hell to all known and unknown divine beings, including al-lah and jesus, to have mercy on a dear friend dying of cancer .......... unfortunately, nobody answered and he passed away two weeks ago .................. now i am hopping mad - what good are these dieties if they don`t answer when you really need them .........

.......... but i am sure i will still invoke the gods the next time i really need help - but it might be in yet another unconventional setting and in an unconventional manner ......... a few years ago i had an epiphany of sorts one afternoon while i was alone in the cathedral in mainz, germany ............ no kidding ! .......... i actually felt her presence and for a moment thought that gabriel was going to show up with a message for me .......... luckily, he didn`t ........... but, as i left the cathedral i looked at the magnificient structure with its soaring ceilings and massive stone arches and i thought about all the poor people, dying of hunger and pestilence, who had toiled and died to create this monstrous edifice while the cardinals and priests in silk and velvet looked on .......... it sent a shudder down my spine ...........ntsyed and echo have a similar effect ............

hamidm #158 writes ``do you mind if i use the term ``nutty syed`` to address the latest addition to the chowk`s lunatic fringe ? ``

It is obvious and truly sad that when `civility`, `freedom` and `western tolerance` preaching folks like hamidm can`t respond to arguments, they resort to name calling and utter rudeness. ntsyed has NOT once resorted to this kind of behaviour, because his arguments, right or wrong, are enough of a response. Resorting to this childish ``nutty syed`` kind of jokes say more about YOUR thinking and ``civilization`` then it does about what ntsyed represents.

Hamidm sahib, very often I have seen you calling the people who oppose your point of view as ``bombers``. However, seeing you going beserk by ntsyed`s postings, it seems as if you yourself are the same clueless, emotional, and dumb ``bomber``.

How little it takes to scrub your layers of ``civility`` and `western tolerance` and see your true picture! I know that the hypocrisy of illiterate maulvis causes people to turn away from Islam. But on the other side, its also the hypocrisy, arrogonce and rudeness of people like you (as depicted on this board) that keeps common people wary of west - and thus depriving them a chance of picking the good western traits.

hamidm:

click on this link (you will have to sign in on chowk to access)… HERE

this is the filth our infamous abdul-hate the purveyor of morality and islam aka as echoboom writes as chusni unprovocatively on the unplugged section of off the wall…and FYI he also interacts under some female nicks as well…

so much for his righteous indignations and call to islam for now ….

rgds

t

Re: # 157

khamkhwa,

....... do you mind if i use the term ``nutty syed`` to address the latest addition to the chowk`s lunatic fringe ? (no snide remarks, please) ....... i like it -it has a nice ring to it