My darling abaya!
Sameen Tahir Khan March 23, 2005
#204 Posted by KaalChakra on March 31, 2005 3:58:49 am
Syed Saheb
Islam does not seem to be very encouraging of ganining knowledge, does it? Or does it promote the view that all sex is `screwing your life away?`
Should people of the subcontinent be following this religion?
It made sense when it was imposed on a terrified, confused people, when people were trying to find an easy alternative to the caste system, or when they were simply tricked into following it, BUT
should people of the civilization that produced the yoga and the kamasutra be following the a religion that thinks sex is just ``screwing one`s life away?``
Islam does not seem to be very encouraging of ganining knowledge, does it? Or does it promote the view that all sex is `screwing your life away?`
Should people of the subcontinent be following this religion?
It made sense when it was imposed on a terrified, confused people, when people were trying to find an easy alternative to the caste system, or when they were simply tricked into following it, BUT
should people of the civilization that produced the yoga and the kamasutra be following the a religion that thinks sex is just ``screwing one`s life away?``
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#203 Posted by ntsyed on March 31, 2005 3:11:31 am
Reg. #200
Dear J,
Please understand, I’m not in a dhitaii contest… never intended to, and never will be, insha Allah. During my days of jahilia I’ve engaged in my share of arguments just for the sake of it. Sorry, but I don’t do it anymore.
Regarding your question, please grow up and read the interacts carefully because you seem to be remiss about some key words. Besides, unless you haven’t heard, in some Islamic countries such executions are carried out in public, so the likes of the executed think hard before spreading dissent against Allah. That is, as opposed to gitmotizing the accused (outside the Geneva Conventions) with every conceivable torture, and then killing or releasing him due to lack of admissible evidence for the trial.
M’as-salaam
Dear J,
Please understand, I’m not in a dhitaii contest… never intended to, and never will be, insha Allah. During my days of jahilia I’ve engaged in my share of arguments just for the sake of it. Sorry, but I don’t do it anymore.
Regarding your question, please grow up and read the interacts carefully because you seem to be remiss about some key words. Besides, unless you haven’t heard, in some Islamic countries such executions are carried out in public, so the likes of the executed think hard before spreading dissent against Allah. That is, as opposed to gitmotizing the accused (outside the Geneva Conventions) with every conceivable torture, and then killing or releasing him due to lack of admissible evidence for the trial.
M’as-salaam
#202 Posted by ntsyed on March 31, 2005 3:11:21 am
Reg. #197:
Dear Kaalchakra, I have heard of the book and what it’s about. I’m very selective in my readings and read the previews, reviews, and testimonials before I attempt to read the whole book.
From preview, reviews, testimonials, and few brief excerpts of the book in question, even back in my days of ignorance I gathered the book is basically about “screwing one’s life away”, if one can fathom all aspects of the term.
Normal people don’t need to read such books to learn the innate function of procreation, whilst they enjoy and relieve mental and/or physical stress in the process.
The book will far exceed its sales targets if titled “Sex for Dummies” – where dummy can be used in every sense of the word.
Being in a free country, you should feel free continue enjoying the Ashtangini with yourself and your partner, whatever it may be.
Dear Kaalchakra, I have heard of the book and what it’s about. I’m very selective in my readings and read the previews, reviews, and testimonials before I attempt to read the whole book.
From preview, reviews, testimonials, and few brief excerpts of the book in question, even back in my days of ignorance I gathered the book is basically about “screwing one’s life away”, if one can fathom all aspects of the term.
Normal people don’t need to read such books to learn the innate function of procreation, whilst they enjoy and relieve mental and/or physical stress in the process.
The book will far exceed its sales targets if titled “Sex for Dummies” – where dummy can be used in every sense of the word.
Being in a free country, you should feel free continue enjoying the Ashtangini with yourself and your partner, whatever it may be.
#201 Posted by ntsyed on March 31, 2005 3:09:26 am
Reg. #196
Sattar Sahib,
Although I’m not an exegete of Quran, I could cite the verses you desire to see. However, you might have noticed that I seldom, if ever, cite specific verses of the Quran and/or Ahadith of the Prophet (PBUH) in my arguments. There are two primary reasons for it:
1. By citing a specific verse(s), more often than not the reader / listener goes directly to that verse(s) to either verify the meaning(s) or to find holes in the explanations presented to him/her. Whereas, COMMON SENSE dictates that one should read the whole chapter, the background and circumstances in which the verse(s) were sent to Prophet (PBUH), as well as the Prophet (PBUH)’s Sunnah in order to understand the context.
2. If this person ends up concurring on the meaning of the verse(s) with the one who quoted it, it often leads to undue reverence of varying degrees for the latter by the former. That is also very dangerous because the revered personality is also human and prone to err just as anyone else, excluding the prophets and messengers (PBUT) of Allah. Consequently, when the former discovers even a simple error on part of the latter, he/she goes exactly where some of us have gone – far away from seeking the truth to get lost in the crowd because “urrrgh … life is too complicated to figure out as it is…so forget about it”.
Your “Nowhere!” suggests the same about you. May Allah forgive me if I’ve erred in my assumption.
As per example of an execution scenario, please follow the advice above, then look at the prevailing circumstances, then think with utmost honesty, and you will see all the examples, not just one.
I could cite some of those examples here myself, but that would be defocusing and take the whole discussion on a different tangent of a battle to convert each other.
As I’ve stated before, I’m not here to convert even a single soul. Allah only requires me to invite and direct the ones at the risk of self-destruction towards the most suitable way to live this life. What they do from there onwards is neither any of my concerns nor Allah will hold me responsible for, because He is the One who guides who seeks guidance.
The other thing you’ve done again, probably in haste, is to ignore the term “in extreme cases”. If this rule was to be applied in every single case, our Prophet (PBUH) would have ordered the execution of every anti-Muslim Makkan when he won the Holy city.
The rest of your arguments strongly suggest you and your colleagues have never STUDIED the quran, Sunnah, and other relevant material with impartial sincerity.
Again, I could sit here and explain the whole thing according to the best of my knowledge and ability, but I won’t do it for the aforementioned reasons. Because more than likely some others, if not you, will believe in my arguments more than the Islam and that is not what I desire as it leads to innovations (bid’a), etc.
I do not criticize the west without a firsthand knowledge of it, because to attempt otherwise would be foolish.
My observation of the “Good Muslims” as opposed to the “Bad Muslims” - as defined by the current anti-muslim forces – is that they come from materialistically inferior societies – e.g. Pak, India, etc – as economic refugees, (according to someone here). They land in an advanced nation, and get blinded by its materialistic glamour, promised dreams that may or may not come true, and ambiguous notion of freedom. Thus, they find it convenient to assimilate without investigating the benefits and pitfalls of the new culture than to find and/or develop their own identities.
They then work hard on studies and skills to become an expert in their selected professions and often succeed. No doubt, that’s an admiral feat by every standard.
However, due to this newfound success some of them project themselves as experts on life according to Quran, and Sunnah. Unfortunately, to grasp the essence of Islam they do not bother to study the Quran and Sunnah and other relevant material. That’s mostly due to their complacency about the extent of their knowledge regarding their “father’s religion”. Not to mention, the material support and anti-Muslim media make it convenient for them to do so. For example, Salman Rushdie, PMU, Amina Wadud, Asra Nomani, Irshad Manji, etc.
Meanwhile, the non-muslim populace continues to diligently study these very things in order to twist Islam, or to embrace true Islam (not just the Muslims).
By asking me these basic questions you’re basically asking me to provide you the cheat sheets and “Islam for Dummies” shortcuts, just so you don’t have to study the whole curriculum to graduate.
You imply (and some insinuate) that people like me are stuck in the 6th century Arabia.
Ironically, by the same standard the arguments you or hamid or jahanzeb or others of your opinion present are mostly reminiscent of the 6th century jahilia and even centuries before that. The disbelievers and hypocrites back then made similar, and sometimes exact same, arguments to justify their position.
But you couldn’t make that assessment until and unless you had sincerely studied Quran, Sunnah, and the history, and analyzed the prevailing geo-political conditions instead of reading news and bits and pieces here and there… could you?
Once again, think and study instead of formulating with reflexive replies.
M’as-salaam
Sattar Sahib,
Although I’m not an exegete of Quran, I could cite the verses you desire to see. However, you might have noticed that I seldom, if ever, cite specific verses of the Quran and/or Ahadith of the Prophet (PBUH) in my arguments. There are two primary reasons for it:
1. By citing a specific verse(s), more often than not the reader / listener goes directly to that verse(s) to either verify the meaning(s) or to find holes in the explanations presented to him/her. Whereas, COMMON SENSE dictates that one should read the whole chapter, the background and circumstances in which the verse(s) were sent to Prophet (PBUH), as well as the Prophet (PBUH)’s Sunnah in order to understand the context.
2. If this person ends up concurring on the meaning of the verse(s) with the one who quoted it, it often leads to undue reverence of varying degrees for the latter by the former. That is also very dangerous because the revered personality is also human and prone to err just as anyone else, excluding the prophets and messengers (PBUT) of Allah. Consequently, when the former discovers even a simple error on part of the latter, he/she goes exactly where some of us have gone – far away from seeking the truth to get lost in the crowd because “urrrgh … life is too complicated to figure out as it is…so forget about it”.
Your “Nowhere!” suggests the same about you. May Allah forgive me if I’ve erred in my assumption.
As per example of an execution scenario, please follow the advice above, then look at the prevailing circumstances, then think with utmost honesty, and you will see all the examples, not just one.
I could cite some of those examples here myself, but that would be defocusing and take the whole discussion on a different tangent of a battle to convert each other.
As I’ve stated before, I’m not here to convert even a single soul. Allah only requires me to invite and direct the ones at the risk of self-destruction towards the most suitable way to live this life. What they do from there onwards is neither any of my concerns nor Allah will hold me responsible for, because He is the One who guides who seeks guidance.
The other thing you’ve done again, probably in haste, is to ignore the term “in extreme cases”. If this rule was to be applied in every single case, our Prophet (PBUH) would have ordered the execution of every anti-Muslim Makkan when he won the Holy city.
The rest of your arguments strongly suggest you and your colleagues have never STUDIED the quran, Sunnah, and other relevant material with impartial sincerity.
Again, I could sit here and explain the whole thing according to the best of my knowledge and ability, but I won’t do it for the aforementioned reasons. Because more than likely some others, if not you, will believe in my arguments more than the Islam and that is not what I desire as it leads to innovations (bid’a), etc.
I do not criticize the west without a firsthand knowledge of it, because to attempt otherwise would be foolish.
My observation of the “Good Muslims” as opposed to the “Bad Muslims” - as defined by the current anti-muslim forces – is that they come from materialistically inferior societies – e.g. Pak, India, etc – as economic refugees, (according to someone here). They land in an advanced nation, and get blinded by its materialistic glamour, promised dreams that may or may not come true, and ambiguous notion of freedom. Thus, they find it convenient to assimilate without investigating the benefits and pitfalls of the new culture than to find and/or develop their own identities.
They then work hard on studies and skills to become an expert in their selected professions and often succeed. No doubt, that’s an admiral feat by every standard.
However, due to this newfound success some of them project themselves as experts on life according to Quran, and Sunnah. Unfortunately, to grasp the essence of Islam they do not bother to study the Quran and Sunnah and other relevant material. That’s mostly due to their complacency about the extent of their knowledge regarding their “father’s religion”. Not to mention, the material support and anti-Muslim media make it convenient for them to do so. For example, Salman Rushdie, PMU, Amina Wadud, Asra Nomani, Irshad Manji, etc.
Meanwhile, the non-muslim populace continues to diligently study these very things in order to twist Islam, or to embrace true Islam (not just the Muslims).
By asking me these basic questions you’re basically asking me to provide you the cheat sheets and “Islam for Dummies” shortcuts, just so you don’t have to study the whole curriculum to graduate.
You imply (and some insinuate) that people like me are stuck in the 6th century Arabia.
Ironically, by the same standard the arguments you or hamid or jahanzeb or others of your opinion present are mostly reminiscent of the 6th century jahilia and even centuries before that. The disbelievers and hypocrites back then made similar, and sometimes exact same, arguments to justify their position.
But you couldn’t make that assessment until and unless you had sincerely studied Quran, Sunnah, and the history, and analyzed the prevailing geo-political conditions instead of reading news and bits and pieces here and there… could you?
Once again, think and study instead of formulating with reflexive replies.
M’as-salaam
#200 Posted by malikjahanzeb on March 30, 2005 10:00:02 pm
nt,
i admit about going aginst my own sugussions but since it doesn`t hurt me writing a couple of lines, i am trying to compete you on dhitaai, so here`s another question:
it is a vivid fact that an apostate is to be put to death according to shariyah, also a blasphemer is alloted the same destiny. it seems like there should be no quesiton if a person is both.
so the question is, if you find hamidm in a dark street, will you kill him to carry out the almighty`s orders?
J
i admit about going aginst my own sugussions but since it doesn`t hurt me writing a couple of lines, i am trying to compete you on dhitaai, so here`s another question:
it is a vivid fact that an apostate is to be put to death according to shariyah, also a blasphemer is alloted the same destiny. it seems like there should be no quesiton if a person is both.
so the question is, if you find hamidm in a dark street, will you kill him to carry out the almighty`s orders?
J
#199 Posted by malikjahanzeb on March 30, 2005 9:20:21 pm
sattar,
according to my knowledge, adultary (as defined as sex between married people) is punishable by death. the suggested way is to tie the subject to something and people kill him/her by throwing stoenes.
you seem to be pretty much optimistic about the religion of your father.
J
according to my knowledge, adultary (as defined as sex between married people) is punishable by death. the suggested way is to tie the subject to something and people kill him/her by throwing stoenes.
you seem to be pretty much optimistic about the religion of your father.
J
#198 Posted by temporal on March 30, 2005 2:06:37 pm
sattar2:
a suggestion re: 196:
why don`t you write a short article enlarging these thoughts for chowk?
if you need help am there
rgds
t
a suggestion re: 196:
why don`t you write a short article enlarging these thoughts for chowk?
if you need help am there
rgds
t
#197 Posted by KaalChakra on March 30, 2005 1:51:01 pm
Syed Saheb
Have you studied the Kamasutra? What`s your opinion of the Ashtangini position? What do you like or don`t like about it?
Have you studied the Kamasutra? What`s your opinion of the Ashtangini position? What do you like or don`t like about it?
#196 Posted by sattar2 on March 30, 2005 1:40:56 pm
Syed Sahib …
Before reading too much of the works of the bona fide scholars on Quran … do make an effort to read Quran first. And don`t forget to use common sense as the need arises. Nowhere does Quran support executing people for worshipping other gods. Nowhere!
Conversely, give me one example where executing a person for worshipping other deities can benefit ummah.
And I would not be surprised if these bona fide scholars also believe in a two thousand year old prophet residing above the coluds ... who will one day descend to earth on shoulders of two angels.
You have made another silly mistake … by arguing that adultery may be punishable by death. Sheer nonsense. Quran limits this punishment to lashes. You and your mullahs cannot rightfully override the verdict of Allah by meaningless sermonizing.
“Laws should be judged for their effectiveness, and not for their leniency”.
This is a lame argument in the context you present it. On similar grounds, you may insist that people who run stop signs should also be executed. Surely this will put an end to traffic violations … thus benefitting the ummah ... and prove effectiveness of the law. What benefits and what effectiveness are we talking about here ...?
Allah Himself is very lenient. Otherwise lightning would immediately strike a person for the minutest infraction of His laws. Leniency is not to be confused with ineffectiveness. Surely you and your sister-in-law are very confused … and dangerous.
#235 Posted by raziab9 on November 26, 2006 9:25:18 pm
Re: # 196
Thank you --Allah really is lenient. I wish these burqa-ladies would understand.
Thank you --Allah really is lenient. I wish these burqa-ladies would understand.
#195 Posted by ntsyed on March 30, 2005 11:12:56 am
Re. #189:
dear malikjahanzeb,
As for keeping me busy, Allah will give me something more suitable to hone my compositional skills, insha-Allah.
Secondly, you’re violating your own pledge you made in #184.
Still…your question is irrelevant to the discussion that you chose to end few posts ago. We were discussing Islam, not how different people practice it. As far as I know, our Prophet (PBUH) did not allow formation of different groups according to specific traditions they follow. Thus, I only consider myself a Muslim – not sunni, shia, or anything in between – and attempt to follow the Prophet (PBUH)’s authentic sunnah according to bona fide reporters like Sahih Bukhari.
Jazak-Allah-Khair
dear malikjahanzeb,
As for keeping me busy, Allah will give me something more suitable to hone my compositional skills, insha-Allah.
Secondly, you’re violating your own pledge you made in #184.
Still…your question is irrelevant to the discussion that you chose to end few posts ago. We were discussing Islam, not how different people practice it. As far as I know, our Prophet (PBUH) did not allow formation of different groups according to specific traditions they follow. Thus, I only consider myself a Muslim – not sunni, shia, or anything in between – and attempt to follow the Prophet (PBUH)’s authentic sunnah according to bona fide reporters like Sahih Bukhari.
Jazak-Allah-Khair
#194 Posted by ntsyed on March 30, 2005 11:11:07 am
Re. #188:
Dear Mister kaalchakra
First of all I thank you for the clarification before I had chance to violate your vanity and sensitivities.
Secondly, I couldn’t agree with you more that God is closer to us than our jugulars. He has freed me and opened my eyes far beyond I expected Him to – all praises and thanks be to Him.
“Certainly don`t waste too much time on books. Read them and move on, just as Time met them and continued on Its journey. Books, prophets, sages and incarnations are guides and guideposts are on the path of Time.”
I don’t suppose you’d care to elaborate on the purpose of “guides and guideposts”, though it would be nice know your perspective on it.
“Existing and existence are not your purpose and mine. We are divine creatures. Our purpose is goodness.”
How could anyone perpetuate goodness, and maintain his/her status of divine creatures, if he/she didn’t explore and learn the purpose of one’s existence?
But I see you’re not interested in the “philosophy of good living” if entails more effort than we’re willing to invest into it.
Thank you for the prayer, may you also find the Right Path.
Ciao
Dear Mister kaalchakra
First of all I thank you for the clarification before I had chance to violate your vanity and sensitivities.
Secondly, I couldn’t agree with you more that God is closer to us than our jugulars. He has freed me and opened my eyes far beyond I expected Him to – all praises and thanks be to Him.
“Certainly don`t waste too much time on books. Read them and move on, just as Time met them and continued on Its journey. Books, prophets, sages and incarnations are guides and guideposts are on the path of Time.”
I don’t suppose you’d care to elaborate on the purpose of “guides and guideposts”, though it would be nice know your perspective on it.
“Existing and existence are not your purpose and mine. We are divine creatures. Our purpose is goodness.”
How could anyone perpetuate goodness, and maintain his/her status of divine creatures, if he/she didn’t explore and learn the purpose of one’s existence?
But I see you’re not interested in the “philosophy of good living” if entails more effort than we’re willing to invest into it.
Thank you for the prayer, may you also find the Right Path.
Ciao
#193 Posted by ntsyed on March 30, 2005 11:09:55 am
Re. #186: hamidm2
No you haven’t, and neither have I accused you of doing so if you read my post carefully.
The prediction was just to tease you in your state of indignation, which apparently did tease you even more ;-) sorry if caused heartburn.
M’as-salaam
No you haven’t, and neither have I accused you of doing so if you read my post carefully.
The prediction was just to tease you in your state of indignation, which apparently did tease you even more ;-) sorry if caused heartburn.
M’as-salaam
#192 Posted by ntsyed on March 30, 2005 11:08:46 am
#185: Dear Sattar, please forgive me for mistaking you as one who wouldn’t need word-by-word explanation. The lines you’ve quoted from my post do NOT represent the full context by any means; it is simply a pointer for you to study Quran, Sunnah, and their exegesis by bona fide scholars, as well as think and ponder; instead of taking anyone’s word for it.
I could sit here and try to explain the whole issue in detail, but unfortunately this board is not enough to discuss such a vast topic. Not to mention, perhaps you would have a better understanding of this issue and others by studying the works of scholars who devoted their lives in research and publication of these things, instead of reading my explanations.
Once you’ve exhausted your efforts to learn the wisdom of such an order from Allah, and when and where it should be applied, ponder the other two other crimes that are punishable by death – IN EXTREME CASES, WHEN IT IS FOR THE BENEFIT OF THE ENTIRE MUSLIM SOCIETY – “murder” and “Adultery/fornication/rape”... I know the latter is politically incorrect, but hey, sue me if anyone wants to.
For that, all you need to do is to think about the current socail trends across the globe from these three perspectives and the abysmally perpetuating contemporary problems. I’m sure you’ll find a tremendous link between them. That may or may not come to you while you’re responding to this post as a reflex reaction.
I would like to share a wonderful quote with you, relayed to me by one of my sister-in-laws. She read in a book written some time ago by a newly reverted (from Judaism to Islam) American lady on Sharia law: “laws should be judged for their effectiveness, and NOT for their leniency.”
“Let`s not blame the media for ummah`s lunaices. Such silliness existed much before CNN was formed by the evil zionists ...”
I agree with you that they existed before Zionists and their media bullhorns. The point was that they not only exploit those flaws of the Muslims, not Islam, contrary to their own standards of “impartial journalism” they distort the ummah’s perfectly sound practices even more viciously. The frequency of such behavior confirms that it’s not by accident, but by malicious design, and Muslims in general need to be aware. Consequently, the Muslim youth is unjustifiably ashamed of Islam and either tries to abandon it or distort it to get lost into the non-muslim culture.
M’as-salaam
I could sit here and try to explain the whole issue in detail, but unfortunately this board is not enough to discuss such a vast topic. Not to mention, perhaps you would have a better understanding of this issue and others by studying the works of scholars who devoted their lives in research and publication of these things, instead of reading my explanations.
Once you’ve exhausted your efforts to learn the wisdom of such an order from Allah, and when and where it should be applied, ponder the other two other crimes that are punishable by death – IN EXTREME CASES, WHEN IT IS FOR THE BENEFIT OF THE ENTIRE MUSLIM SOCIETY – “murder” and “Adultery/fornication/rape”... I know the latter is politically incorrect, but hey, sue me if anyone wants to.
For that, all you need to do is to think about the current socail trends across the globe from these three perspectives and the abysmally perpetuating contemporary problems. I’m sure you’ll find a tremendous link between them. That may or may not come to you while you’re responding to this post as a reflex reaction.
I would like to share a wonderful quote with you, relayed to me by one of my sister-in-laws. She read in a book written some time ago by a newly reverted (from Judaism to Islam) American lady on Sharia law: “laws should be judged for their effectiveness, and NOT for their leniency.”
“Let`s not blame the media for ummah`s lunaices. Such silliness existed much before CNN was formed by the evil zionists ...”
I agree with you that they existed before Zionists and their media bullhorns. The point was that they not only exploit those flaws of the Muslims, not Islam, contrary to their own standards of “impartial journalism” they distort the ummah’s perfectly sound practices even more viciously. The frequency of such behavior confirms that it’s not by accident, but by malicious design, and Muslims in general need to be aware. Consequently, the Muslim youth is unjustifiably ashamed of Islam and either tries to abandon it or distort it to get lost into the non-muslim culture.
M’as-salaam
#191 Posted by ntsyed on March 30, 2005 11:02:09 am
#184: malikjahanzeb
You haven’t substantiated your complaint with an example of an alleged folly on my part, which makes it impossible for me to address it with honesty.
“this makes me conclude that communication with you is impossible.”
Jazak-Allah-khair – Allah is our witness that I’ve done my part.
M’as-salaam
You haven’t substantiated your complaint with an example of an alleged folly on my part, which makes it impossible for me to address it with honesty.
“this makes me conclude that communication with you is impossible.”
Jazak-Allah-khair – Allah is our witness that I’ve done my part.
M’as-salaam
#190 Posted by malikjahanzeb on March 29, 2005 10:11:30 pm
i think this one can better be tagged as abdul-truth.
enjoy
Assalam O Alaikum (please refer to emails subject GHOST BUSTER for
context of this mail. Mainly this is in reply to Murtaza and Affan`s
mail),
Indeed murtaza u r correct in most of what u said. There is no
enforcement in the way of ALLAH. u dont want ppl to become muslims this
way.
But as muslims, it is our due duty to create environment where it is
easy for others to hear the message of Allah and if they get convinced
then it is easy for them to convert to islam without any fear of
persecution. So if there is a place where u cannot do this (i.e. spread
the message of islam without fear of persecution) then u can become
aggressors.
So as far as ur comment: ``Quran doesnt` allow Muslims to initiate a
fight`` I dont fully agree with it. An example of it can infact be found
in the battle of Badr (and as muslims there is no need to apologetic
about this fact) but we have to look at a greater level of detail and
its context. Makkans are making it more and more difficult for Prophet
Muhammad (SAW) to make a society where people can hear the message of
Allah even after they migrated to Madina. Did Prophet (SAW) had another
option other than the battles that he fought?
As far as churches thing is concerned, to me, it is not a matter of
EQUALITY on ground. It is the matter of what is the truth. Prophet
Muhammad (SAW) specifically forbade Makkah for non-muslims. So do u
want an equality there as well then since saudis can go in every part
of the world so they should be allowing the same to others? I dont
think so since it is what is the truth and I am not apologetic about it
at all. If some christian wants to practice their religion in pakistan
for that matter then fine with me. But if they want to preach
christianity to muslims, sorry but i wont allow that. Oh, but thats a
contradiction. Isnt it? I just said that we muslms must preach to
others but I am not allowing the same for christians. How unjust of me!
Well, refer back to my earlier sentence. It is not a matter of EQUALITY
on ground. It is the matter of what is the truth.
And lastly your reply to this: ``The marriage of a dhimmi with a Muslim
woman...`` and you said`` Islam allows marriage with People of the Books,
yes it doesn`t allow marriage with e.g. Hindus, Budhists etc.
Well, Islam even does not allow marraige of the people of the book if
the male is from the people of book and the female is a muslim (the
other way round is acceptable). And this is the way it is. If people
are willing to learn the wisdom of Allah behind this with open heart
(and we can only GUESS at His wisdom since only He knows what He plans)
then there are countless literature by scholars who end up presenting
more than wonderful wisdom behind this. But oh, again i am playing
hypocrisy right? Islam says it is ok if the women is people of book but
not if the man is from people of book. How unjust of me and how
hypocrite of me. Again my reply to this is the same: It is not a matter
of EQUALITY on ground. It is the matter of what is the truth.
I am not playing the EQUALITY game and I am not here to please
non-muslims or the so-called human rights activists. I am not
apologetic in what i blv is the truth and neither should any muslim be.
I often see muslims (and i was once myself like that) who tend to
defend their religion by trying to become apologetic on certain things.
Well, as Allah says something similar in Qur`an too, no matter what we
do to please the non-muslims, they wont be happy until we give up every
thing that is the truth. So why try to please them at all. If someone
likes islam the way it is and want to come into its folds, then welcome
(and there are many who accept islam the way it is given to humans by
Allah since no one can be more just than Allah) but if not then i am
not willing to change islam (and no human can do that since it is THE
TRUTH) or become apologetic for pleasing them.
Rest ALLAH knows best
Waheed
enjoy
Assalam O Alaikum (please refer to emails subject GHOST BUSTER for
context of this mail. Mainly this is in reply to Murtaza and Affan`s
mail),
Indeed murtaza u r correct in most of what u said. There is no
enforcement in the way of ALLAH. u dont want ppl to become muslims this
way.
But as muslims, it is our due duty to create environment where it is
easy for others to hear the message of Allah and if they get convinced
then it is easy for them to convert to islam without any fear of
persecution. So if there is a place where u cannot do this (i.e. spread
the message of islam without fear of persecution) then u can become
aggressors.
So as far as ur comment: ``Quran doesnt` allow Muslims to initiate a
fight`` I dont fully agree with it. An example of it can infact be found
in the battle of Badr (and as muslims there is no need to apologetic
about this fact) but we have to look at a greater level of detail and
its context. Makkans are making it more and more difficult for Prophet
Muhammad (SAW) to make a society where people can hear the message of
Allah even after they migrated to Madina. Did Prophet (SAW) had another
option other than the battles that he fought?
As far as churches thing is concerned, to me, it is not a matter of
EQUALITY on ground. It is the matter of what is the truth. Prophet
Muhammad (SAW) specifically forbade Makkah for non-muslims. So do u
want an equality there as well then since saudis can go in every part
of the world so they should be allowing the same to others? I dont
think so since it is what is the truth and I am not apologetic about it
at all. If some christian wants to practice their religion in pakistan
for that matter then fine with me. But if they want to preach
christianity to muslims, sorry but i wont allow that. Oh, but thats a
contradiction. Isnt it? I just said that we muslms must preach to
others but I am not allowing the same for christians. How unjust of me!
Well, refer back to my earlier sentence. It is not a matter of EQUALITY
on ground. It is the matter of what is the truth.
And lastly your reply to this: ``The marriage of a dhimmi with a Muslim
woman...`` and you said`` Islam allows marriage with People of the Books,
yes it doesn`t allow marriage with e.g. Hindus, Budhists etc.
Well, Islam even does not allow marraige of the people of the book if
the male is from the people of book and the female is a muslim (the
other way round is acceptable). And this is the way it is. If people
are willing to learn the wisdom of Allah behind this with open heart
(and we can only GUESS at His wisdom since only He knows what He plans)
then there are countless literature by scholars who end up presenting
more than wonderful wisdom behind this. But oh, again i am playing
hypocrisy right? Islam says it is ok if the women is people of book but
not if the man is from people of book. How unjust of me and how
hypocrite of me. Again my reply to this is the same: It is not a matter
of EQUALITY on ground. It is the matter of what is the truth.
I am not playing the EQUALITY game and I am not here to please
non-muslims or the so-called human rights activists. I am not
apologetic in what i blv is the truth and neither should any muslim be.
I often see muslims (and i was once myself like that) who tend to
defend their religion by trying to become apologetic on certain things.
Well, as Allah says something similar in Qur`an too, no matter what we
do to please the non-muslims, they wont be happy until we give up every
thing that is the truth. So why try to please them at all. If someone
likes islam the way it is and want to come into its folds, then welcome
(and there are many who accept islam the way it is given to humans by
Allah since no one can be more just than Allah) but if not then i am
not willing to change islam (and no human can do that since it is THE
TRUTH) or become apologetic for pleasing them.
Rest ALLAH knows best
Waheed
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