Pakistan Travelogue I

Satyamvada #413,
{``Pakistani govt forms routinely ask for the caste of a person !!
Ashrafs, Syeds are all castes - of course those people who claim lineage from
the mohammed and his tribe are the highest. All you have to do is to read the
matrimony ads for muslims to know if caste exists or not. Many chowkies
themselves have revealed their castes !! ``}

Sat,
Why do you make it a point to annoy me - a pretty easy going, liberal, and anti-fundo person? Now, when you resort to half-truths and outright lies, I have to give you a thorough spanking. Unlike Hindusim which stipulates castes, there are no castes in Islam. Infact, the Koran says something like ``O Mankind, we created you from one man and one woman.`` Also, intermarriages among different races (I said races - like black, yellow, white, Semite, etc) are allowed and race is stated to be insignificant in comparison to religion. The tribal ``castes`` you mention, e.g. Quraishi, Sayyad, etc. were marks of distinction created by Arab rulers to justify their claim to the Caliphate after the death of the Holy Prophet (PBUH). But then Muslims, especially Turks, also had the ``slave dynasties`` in India and Egypt, where the slave of the Sultan would succeed him in office instead of his son. How about that one? Any barriers to marriage and interaction among various Muslim ``castes`` or ``tribes`` is extra-religious and probably practised to keep land and wealth within a tribe or family, just as cousin marriages.
According to your classification system, I must be a total pariah in Islamic societies. Not a Sayyad, not a Quraish, just a person with a Hindu Rajput last name, a lowly Shiite and European Turkish background would certainly put me on the back of the Islamic bus. But that is not the case. In Pakistan, people have shed their Shaikh and Sayyad prefixes and people actually make fun of these honorifics.
Read some of Iqbal`s poetry (Shikwa, Jawaab-e-Shikwa) on this topic. We don`t have ``castes`` in Islam.

Shaikh Sir Sayyad Salim Ahmed Chauhan Khan Quraishi Chughtai Madinawalla

Netizen #409,
Adding to what you wrote, Punjab does not contribute to central taxes as much as it gets from the planning commision. In essense it is taxes from other states especially western and southern states which payes for punjab. So punjab definitely cannot sustain itself.

# 410

I just checked. I was wrong. Aishwarya Rai belongs to the Bunt community.

Atif #349, {``You probably realize that as you move west, the looks start to improve ``}

For the record, I want it noted that Karachi is located somewhat west of Lahore. Also, I want to reiterate that my grandfather is from the most western side of Jaipur.

Re: # 411 manto
//..a pluralistic and tolerant Pakistan. ..//

Like you said - pipe dreams don`t die easy :) Your pipe-dream about ``pluralistic and tolerant Pakistan`` same as Advani`s wet-dream about ``United South Asia``.

As usual the p*kis live up to their lying habits.
Pakistani govt forms routinely ask for the caste of a person !!
Ashrafs, Syeds are all castes - of course those people who claim lineage from
the mohammed and his tribe are the highest. All you have to do is to read the
matrimony ads for muslims to know if caste exists or not. Many chowkies
themselves have revealed their castes !!
That nation of bigotry called Saudi Arabia has a whole caste pyramid by itself.
The original tribes being the upper castes.

What is interesting is that while India is an open society and keeps improving, the
pakis are interested in cover up, cooking up excuses and blatant lying.

Jang...

Most of your post I wouldn`t comment on ... as it is pure nonsense.

But...the end ``SMP/Anny``

Semipreciousme is definitely NOT anNy. For one thing... SMP is a lahorite and anNy is a Karachite.

Dost Mittar..

You can rest assure I`ll be in the front cheering them on...

Now while Ch Shujaat Hussain has done all of us proud by taking this step... and you can imagine the repercussions of this ... I was very disappointed by Advani`s clever and crafty statement at the end... pipe dreams don`t die easy do they?

Ah well... I say let Advani smoke his sheesha... I am happy that Shujaat is alive to the possibilities of a pluralistic and tolerant Pakistan.

Re: # 397

coolal

are you sure about aishwarya being gaud-saraswat? I thought the `rais` belong to Bunts community from southern canara.

If she had not been so famous, I would have tried my luck with her :(

Re: # 404

``centre is not pouring in any money and subsidies on agriculture for Punjab are same as those for other states. ``

Along with the hardworking spirit of the locals, Centre sponsored Green revolution has already created wealth and prosperity in Punjab. These other states may not be as prosperous and wealthy as Punjab, that could be the reason. Also, population could be a factor. These BIMARU states are poor and have large populations.

``Starting with 1947,it was Punjab (along with Bengal) which was partiotioned ``

Its the fault of the people living there. They were for it. Sindh would also have been partitioned if it had more hindus and the hindu-majority areas were next to india.

``It was again divided on linguistic basis and Haryana and Himachal Pradesh were carved out.In Haryana and Himachal,still majority people are Punjabi speaking``

HImachal and Haryana are not punjabi-speaking states. Pahari is spoken in himachal and haryanvi in haryana. There were punjabi- speaking areas which did get assimilated into H.P. and Haryana. But overall punjabi is not the mjority language.

``Water of Punjab`s rivers is being given to other states without following any logical guidelines,whereas level of ground water is continuously gowing down in Punjab.``

this problem is seen through out the country. Even tamil nad/andhra are fighting.

``central govt has fixed a ceiling for recruitment into army whereas no such ceiling exists for other states.``

can you provide nore info. This could be so as to maintain a parity so that indian army doesn`t become Punjab army, as has been the case in Pakistan. I read few years back that andhras quota was virtually empty.

``Punjab still is the most prosperous state and contributes more than 50% of the country`s wheat and rice ``

so whats the problem. We as indians are proud of it and thank the punjabis. FYI, U.P. grows more wheat than Punjab but consumes a lot itself (Pop. ~ 150 mm). Punjab (pop. ~ 22 mm) has a lot to spare.

Also, Centre has written off the debt punjab acquired fighting terrorism. Which is a correct step. The Centre/states should support/help each other, thats what will make us strong.

In indian union, the centre helps the poor states equally/may be more than the rich states. I remember Naidu complaining about it. Why should center give millions to Bihar/U.P. and neglect Mumbai/Andhra just because the formers don`t care about development and investments, whereas the later is working towards it.

i find the castes in india fascinating and we all should study them and ignore them since we are affected by these. in that vein to set the record straight, i want to say that kayasta is an upper-caste, and indeed indulge in thread ceremony (hindoo bar-mitzvah) which is an initiation to scholarship. kayashtas are known since the mughal times as court secretaries and scribes, but they do not perform pujas and eat meat (actually most hindus eat meat, e.g. Gauda Saraswat Brahmins).

# 403

Oh Maaan!!!

I gotta tell ya, this KKK dude has just 3 posts on Chowk in this incarnation.

Boy, just take a look at his other two posts.

[Note to myself]
Put the entity that calls itself ``KKKhurram`` on the ``The Plague`` list.

# 403


Based on your own definition, I take it that you are a ``Brahmin Fvck`` yourself since you know so much about different people and their castes.

has 12-head started taking medications?

``Indian Punjab will break away because Punjabis are widely scattered over the Indian landscape with business interests all over the country. Also, the agricultural economy in that state is highly subsidisde due to liberal money pouring in from the Center.``

Sridhar,centre is not pouring in any money and subsidies on agriculture for Punjab are same as those for other states.

Centre has always discriminated against Punjab in many areas:-

Starting with 1947,it was Punjab (along with Bengal) which was partiotioned

It was again divided on linguistic basis and Haryana and Himachal Pradesh were carved out.In Haryana and Himachal,still majority people are Punjabi speaking(at the time of census of 1961,they declared Hindi as their first language),but oficial second languages are Telegu and Urdu,respectively,in these staes.

Chandiagrh is constructed on Punjab`s land and it was Nehru,s promise to give an alternate (to Lahore) new capital city to Punjab,but tilldate continues to be union territory and serving capital of Haryana as well.

Water of Punjab`s rivers is being given to other states without following any logical guidelines,whereas level of ground water is continuously gowing down in Punjab.

central govt has fixed a ceiling for recruitment into army whereas no such ceiling exists for other states.

This is only tip of the iceberg.

Had the movement of 80s(which actually started as joint protest against proposed Satluj-Yamuna Link Canal,by Akalis and Communists but highjacked by Bhindranwale who was actually very close to congress at that time)progressed on rational lines keeping religeon away from it and just focussing on Punjab,things may have been different today.

Punjab still is the most prosperous state and contributes more than 50% of the country`s wheat and rice

Aishwariya Rai is a Bunt (I think also called Shettys), which is a tulu speaking non-brahmin caste. Shilpa Shetty and Sunil shetty, both come from that caste. Because she is a non-brahmin, she is a Shudra or Servant caste(I think all Brahmin fvcks are having an orgasm reading this). She is NOT a Goud-Saraswat Brahmin.

Anyways, are we playing “what caste is she anyway?” , the favorite topic of most Indians ( mostly Brahman fvcks) on Chowk. I think we should have a theme song for that then. How about –
“lets talk about caste baby
lets talk about you and me
lets talk about all the good things, all the bad things- that make me
lets talk about CASTE !!!!!!!!!!!”

Amitabh Bachchan -father is UP Kayasth (Shudra-Servant-caste per Brahmin)
Dharmendra,– Jat- farming caste-Punjab Haryana-Western UP (Shudra-Servant-caste per Brahmin), married to Hema Malini – Tamil ??(too fair to be Tamil, I will say) Brahmin (big caste problem)
Sunny Deol, Bobby Deol, Viru Sehwag – all Jats (Shudra-Servant-caste per Brahmin)
Shatrughan Sinha –Bihari Kayasth(Shudra-Servant-caste per Brahmin)-
All Chopras, Khannas, Kapoors, Aroras, Oberoi, are Punjabi Khatri (not Brahmin and not Shudra); anyways can some Brahmin-fvck please confirm this
All Khans (Aamir, Shahrukh, Salman, Saif, etc.) – Urdu speaking Pathans – (no caste- Islam does not have caste)
Ajay Devgan (Ramgarhiya Sikh)
Govinda – (Ahuja)Sindhi – no caste

Rekha(mistress of Shudra – Amitabh Bachchan), Kalpana Iyer (caberet dancer), Vyjanthimala – south Indian Brahmins

Anyways I am getting bored; gotta get back to work; please feel free to fill in the rest