Pakistan Travelogue I

harish_hyde #575,
Thank you - So you will be waiting at Atari wearing your best turban? :)

amit #576,
Yes, the men will try to run after them, that is why they want the training. I think that Adnan Sami did not run the marathon. He just floated from Karachi to Bombay and was beached on Juhu beached. :)

#572 by harimau on April 4, 2005 4:15pm PT

I thought FV lives on malabar hill....or kemps corner...or one of those snotty places in south bombay...bandra is a burb...and it`s a long way from bandra to the sea lounge at the taj..the gas you`ll burn driving there and back will cost you more than the 80Rs you`ll spend on a cup of coffee..

Re:kardesh#573

Salim, if the girls run a marathon towards India, the Pakistani men will be right behind them. Except, perhaps for, ahem, Adnan Sami and Inzamam-ul-Haq. These fatsos need to run around and lose some weight :-).

#573 by kardesh

That was funny!!! :-)

Ref Saminasha #560

[Stuka,

Did you read Parag Khanna`s NYTimes Travel piece-some strange similarities to your piece....]

Parag Vohra and now Parag Khanna. What is happening? Their dads were high on Pan Parag or what?

And what is with names like Anmol and Arihant? What do THESE names mean? Every third kid seems to be named these nowadays. Of course, in the Unplugged Section, I read about somebody named Anal Dixit. I would hang myself if my parents had saddled me with a name like that! No wonder these guys call themselves Bruno or Alan when they answer phones at the call centers.

Paki women`s marathon mystery solved.

I am known for considering all sides of an argument. While I endorse women`s right to dress anyway they like, compete in any sport they desire, and strive for any goals they aspire to, I do understand the Mullahs` position concerning Paki women`s quest for marathon training.

Simpy put, it has nothing to do with modesty or semi-nudity. The Mullahs are concerned, quite justifiably, that once the Paki women get trained in marathon running, they will never look back. Gujranwala is just a deviation, the real focus is Lahore. Curiously, a marathon is approximately 26 miles, approximately the same distance, give or take a few miles, from Lahore to the Indian border. Once in shape and trained to run that distance, Lahori girls will make a mad dash for India, right into the waiting arms of their beloved Sikh boyfriends.

We have lost Meera to India and the Mullahs do not want to deplete the lovely city of Lahore of all its fine cleavage. I am sorry, while I do not condone the Mullahs` use of petrol bombs and suicide squads, I am in sympathy with them on this one. Islam khatray meN hai - Uryaniat roko. LarRkioN ki bhaag dooR khatm karo.

Ref arjun_m #561

[are you serious? Ivan Dias is in the running?

damn...most people from bandra already think god lives in bandra.....now if the pope is also from bandra, they`ll be insufferable..]

Surely, you are NOT including Farzana Versey among such people though she lives in Bandra!

Also, we are sending the ugliest PIA air hostesses to India so that Indian females can feel good about themselves, samjha!!

You mean that person who actually waited on me was a lady?

And here I was thinking there were no air hostesses in PIA.

Stuka,
I read Parag Khanna`s travelogue in Saminasha`s ilogs. While it is interesting, I found the article to be quite detached. As if all the emotion and meaning of this trip lay with the father. Maybe the father should have written the anecdote. It doesn`t compare with the width, the length, and more importantly the depth of your version. I was really touched by your account and could almost feel making the journey with you. Funny, how Mr. Khanna did not mention the famous Dunkin Donut even once. It goes to show, if you want to see everything, you must have a native guide you around - Thank you Manto. :)

For the record, I have found most PIA stewardesses to be quite attractive and very much in shape. Amazing what Paki women can look like once you get them to move a few muscles. :)

Ali:

Haan, Samjha. LOL.


Samina: Thanks...

cayenne, #563, {``Maybe he will share his `experiences` with the homosexual bible salesmen who frequent low-rent motels that, ahem , he frequents too!``}

First of all, cayenne, your style is quite similar to Nikki7777. Are you Nikki? If so, welcome back, if not, consider my suspicion a compliment.

Now, I don`t think that Mr. Hamidm2 was referring to salesmen who were homosexual. Let`s give him the benefit of the doubt. It is possible that he was referring to salesmen who happened to be selling homosexual bibles. Do they have such things? :)

Also, we are sending the ugliest PIA air hostesses to India so that Indian females can feel good about themselves, samjha!!

heheh....this is a no brainer...just pick any crew randomly;)

(and for the humour impaired: i am kiddin`)

stukay, this is very well written..... truly from the heart. However, I don`t understand why it bothers madrasis so much..... BTW, its funny to see madrasis raging on the internet... in real life, one scowl on a Punjabi face and the head wobbling freezes!

Also, we are sending the ugliest PIA air hostesses to India so that Indian females can feel good about themselves, samjha!!

Stuka,

its in my ilog

#546 by kardesh on April 3, 2005 1:28pm PT
I don`t care whether they will be factual or not. I just want hamidm2 to write several ``travelogues`` to some of my favorite cities. I want him to describe in his inimitable style, his ..................



Yeah.Maybe he will share his `experiences` with the homosexual bible salesmen who frequent low-rent motels that, ahem , he frequents too!!!.I like the guy.Honest enough to admit to all that he digs homosexual bible salesmen.Kinky dude.Perfect candidate for Pope or Imam, i should say , what??.Rock on , hamidm2!.

Saminasha:

No, I did not...can you post it?

#538 by cayenne on April 3, 2005 10:25am PT


Been watching tv again, and the world media has been speculating on the new pope already.One of the names being thrown out is Archbishop Ivan Diaz of Mumbai(


are you serious? Ivan Dias is in the running?

damn...most people from bandra already think god lives in bandra.....now if the pope is also from bandra, they`ll be insufferable..

Stuka,

Did you read Parag Khanna`s NYTimes Travel piece-some strange similarities to your piece....

Nice article Indeed. Perhaps the last paragraph you could have stretched a bit more.
Lovely article!

Re: # 555

Chanda boxes are like the Ultra Sound (Foetal Test) Labs in India- both being the closely held secrets of these societies and considered necessary to their existence................

Veeresh #555, {``Stuka - welcome to the world of being a writer and being quoted out of context. ``}

Veeresh, my dear friend, with that statement are you in any way insinuating that you are a writer and that you have been quoted out of context? Your entire epic, saga, and ``travelogue`` was out of context. :)

Sorry, that was too good to pass up. :)

kaalchakra #554,
Thank you for the kind encouragement. I find your interaction to be a catalyst for all manner of discussions. You sure have a knack for ``innocently`` stirring the pot. Thanks for keeping things interesting and moving in all directions. I enjoy your participation and style. :)

For what it is worth, Dunkin Donuts was founded by William Rosenberg. Whoops, here we go again.

Stuka - welcome to the world of being a writer and being quoted out of context. No visit to Pakistan by an Indian can now be complete without a certification on rampant cleavages, chanda boxes and doughnuts. Oh well.

And why for hamidm2 is at such places at 5:30 in the morning?

re: kardesh # 546

If you can get our next Pope and Grand Mufti Hamidm2 to write those travelogues, you might actually put old man God into well-deserved retirement.

On matters of religion, people who can`t write (like me) try to write, and people who actually can write (like hamidm2 and you) don`t :(

Yours is the smarter choice, but it`s also very unfair, making the lesser lights do all the dirty work!

Tahmed Sahib, #548, #549, {``I was proposing hamidm for pope, actually. We could then also declare him the Grand Mufti of the Equally Grand Muslim Ummah. Kind of like putting the fox in the chicken coop.
or (to use a different anology than the fox), like putting salim incharge of a sorority. ``}

Tahmed Sahib, I second that proporsal of yours. Perhaps we could call him Popalifa as a compounded title. Salim incharge of a sorority would be disaster, based on my success with the ladies on UP - more like saying putting a rooster with the foxes. :)

From the diary of Kaanta Ben:
``Dear ddairy vote day its been. Today mourning mai mara chair ma seet karo chhe toe Indian chokra kofee lena aawu chhe. Mare ko oosmay cent per cent dauut awu chhe. He kame eento our shoop smaylling here and there. I also smaylt to chake vote wos hapeneeng. But oll I kood gate was the hayvenly smayl of heeng tarka on dal. Mmm kay sad chhe and I leeked my choops as I vakantly loooked at de door. And theyn i saw heem. A short, dark Eendian looking fallow loooking ayround in a sheefty fayshon and tweeching his nose like he was smaylling sometheeng. Kustomer toe god chay (apro Gandhijee used to say...no not me mee..but in boooks). So I smiled at heem and told heem ``Naas day to kerm. Are you from india?`` I had to chake sidevays vether Jayant vos lookeeng or note. Jayant ko bhaut jealousy aawu chee, but I vos een luck Jayant was peeking hees nose. But the old faallo seemed to sheever. Gave an order for three dole-arse and foutty saints and rain out of de door. Very strange fallow I told Hasmukh Bhai who is sargaynt weeth the polis here. I was vary luck Husmukh bhai caame in just as that Eendian fallow ran out.``

this is my token interact to appreciate stuka`s fine writing on both yuppy and not-yuppy Pakistans. also this thing should touch 1000, it has been a while an article on chowk got to that mark.

postscript to #549
In continuation of religious studies:

Q: why was jesus was not born in veeresh`s neighborhood?

A: they couldnt find three wise men or a virgin.

PPS: Veeresh. Just kidding.

#548 continued: or (to use a different anology than the fox), like putting salim incharge of a sorority.

salim #543: I was proposing hamidm for pope, actually. We could then also declare him the Grand Mufti of the Equally Grand Muslim Ummah. Kind of like putting the fox in the chicken coop.

re:#538 by cayenne
considering that India is seen as a fertile ground for conversion, do not be surprised if the next Pope is an Indian. That agenda of converting heathrens (as christians would call anyone not of their faith) in India is what the last pope was fond of and took to his grave. So, i hear.
Sridhar

I don`t care whether they will be factual or not. I just want hamidm2 to write several ``travelogues`` to some of my favorite cities. I want him to describe in his inimitable style, his experiences with religious nuts, with ostentatious ladies, and with ``my $hit doesn`t stink`` type self-promoters. Here are some suggestions:

1. Hamidm2 goes on a pilgrimage to Mecca
2. Hamdim2 does a yatra and self-immersion in Benares.
3. Hamidm2 drinks too much beer and relieves himself against the Wailing Wall.
3. Hamidm2 and Kaka visit the Golden Temple in Amritsar.
4. Hamidm2 interviews Narendra Modi
5. Hamidm2 is elected to the Duma

Re: # 544
Hamidm,
My first act will be to appoint you Pope.
I think that you are the best thing to happen to religion since the Reformation. :)

Re: # 542

Kardesh,

...... i have great confidence in you - i think you will make a fine minister :)

tahmed #523, {``Job Opening for all underemployed chowkies...(send resume to the Vatican)``}

While virginity and past moral uprightness are not key qualifications for the job, future celibacy and sound thinking are a must. Tahmed Sahib, with all due respect to your selfless motives and your passionate concern to keep scout employed, your ``job opening`` post is not very wise. Although I am ready for a female ``popi,`` or ``mome``, or ``mama mia`` or as they say in Latin, ``Madre Castrata,`` I don`t think that any female Chowkie will make the cut. While we have a few semi-virgins on Chowk, current moral uprightness and a commitment to future celibaby are out of the question for Chowk females - unless you consider lesbian behavior to be chaste and morally acceptable.

But then what can you say about the standards of those who, every week, line up so that they can kneel with their mouths open, in front of a standing white man, dressed in loose garments?

#529 Kaalchakra {``Kardesh for minister for promotion of sufficient vice and prevention of excessive virtue.
saminasha and scout for ministers for feminist affairs and keeping kardesh in his place.``}

Who died and left you incharge of nominating low ranking morality ministers? OK, OK, I know, wise guy, someone did die. Don`t rub it in.
I must warn you that if nominated I will not run and if elected I will not serve. First of all, being responsible for promotion of sufficient vice is not my style. Man, sufficient is a weak term. It means allowing Meera to kiss but not deep throat the guy. It means allowing the two feminists to exchange lewd lesbo comments, but not to be able to adopt Faisaluno as their impossibly-begotten offspring. It means letting Prashant123 aka Gujju go to Lahore and come back a virgin, that means without a sweet doughnut sticking from his backside.
Prevention of excessive virtue sounds like a thankless job. It means I cannot offer Rekha my own hand in marriage - because that would be the right thing to do. It means I cannot kiss Meera to give her some alternatives. It means I cannot save either of the two feminists from a life devoid of any heterosexual experiences.

The only feminist affairs these so-called ministers of your choice can conduct are the lewd, lesbionic (sic), and those involving extreme misandry.

I used to think that you were one balanced and mentally-endowed person on Chowk. Unfortunately, you have let your own boundless papal ambitions cloud your judgement. You may make it to Rome, but no more jiggy jiggy for you, my friend. Celibabcy is a mandatory requirement for that job.

hamidm2 #534, {``a stench of death and heeng hang in the air ``}

...........by patels and other indians of dubious origin ........... i prefer to take my chances with norman bates and his.......

Love this.I shudder when i think of what you`ll write when you visit coorg.Thanks for the laugh.

hamidm2 #534, {``a stench of death and heeng hang in the air ``}

Hamid,
You had me laughing so loud that I spilled my coughee in my dosa. You are so funny, I hope you continue with the motel jokes. I liked the one about the preacher with the $20 date. You are hilarious.

I still can`t figure out what got everyone sweating and fighting here. :)

SO, this pudgy ingrate goes to lahore ,waxes eloquent about the airport road and ends up at the only nightspot in town where the educated folk rock on till the wee hours of the morning, er , closing time, which must be 11pm??.Whoopee!!!.Lahore has a Dunkin Donut franchise!!.Progress in pakistan.Way ahead of india.All this is so boring.And the acrimony and pettiness in the interacts is overwhelming.This weezil went there to find his roots.Hope he did.

Been watching tv again, and the world media has been speculating on the new pope already.One of the names being thrown out is Archbishop Ivan Diaz of Mumbai(the second largest catholic diocese outside of Rome).Is the world ready for an indian pope?.Is India ready for an indian pope?.Throws up a lot of interesting posers.The eight indian catholic cardinals are getting ready to go to Rome to do their thing.Some of them were interviewed on NDTV today.Something`s brewing.

...bah!! this fiction gets 500+ hits...if you really want to read a proper travelogue, check out my i-logs from today onwards for the real thing...thank you ferzana versey...;)

parag,

honestly i don`t give a rat`s behind if you liked pakistan or hated it, it would have been ok either way, the best thing was that you got to visit your ancestral past. that is priceless.
good for you.... a lot of people talk about visiting their past but few actually have the luck or motivation to do it.

re: Khurram Miyan,
(Most people would agree that 90% of tamil Brahmin girls are ugly as home made lye soap, then how can you let your good looking gals fornicate around with north indians/Punjabis)
Your Meera is being banged by a no-good looking Bhatt (whose Butt she surely must have licked to get that role), but do i see any serious form of protests from you guys. No. The only thing i see are some mullahs making a noise about some goddamn kiss. They are missing the whole picture. IN Bollywood of today, there are no free lunches. Meera must have opened her veil (and much more) before Bhatt opened his purse.
Be that as it may, it is all for the good of both countries. As more Paki actresses get banged by Hindus in India, it will only make the relationship better and truly unique.
As for your post, you only need to look at the fate of those actresses. Hema Malini is fighting a court battle to give legitimacy to her children. No respected Tam Brahm will marry Rekha, who epitomises the word ``b!tch``. As for Kalpana Iyer, God knows where she is.
IN today`s India, middle class women pursue their career with freedom that was unavailable in the past. Some stray into the film world due to glamor. The talented ones make it but they have screwed up personal lives.
Such choices are not available to middle class women in Pak. Which is why you even ask this question why South Indian Brahmin females are allowed? What do u mean by allowed? They are free to do what they want but they have to face the consequences of a conservative society (which is what Tam Brahms still are).
Sridhar

nightmare at howard johson ..... part - I ..........

........ ever since i discovered a used condom snugly tucked under the sheets, i have tried to stay away from holiday inns and other fine small town establishments run by patels and other indians of dubious origin ........... i prefer to take my chances with norman bates and his guests - homosexual bible salesmen, drunken truckers, mass murderers on the run, and the odd preacher with his twenty dollar date ..................

........... so when i pulled into the driveway of the howard johnson in meridian, mississippi, i was worried even though the secretary had assured me that it was the best place in town ............a town which had held its last lynching less than ten years ago, and where the blacks still got off the sidewalk to let a white person pass ........... the white people ate grits three times a day, married their first cousins, chewed tobacco, hung confederate flags from their rusty pickups and, like their ancestors, suffered from bad teeth ........... but i noticed that there was a doctor srikant patel, dds, right across from the dunkin donut and kitty-corner from a dr gopintah patel md, family practitioner, general surgeon and diplomate of the american institute of psychiatary ............. a hotel with a dunkin donut and two quacks named patel next to it didn’t sound too good – a stench of death and heeng hang in the air ....... i shuddered and a cold sweat trickled down my spine ......... i saw the shadowy creatures - shapeless forms from the otherside - lurking in the twilight just behind the cracked glass door and the eerie red ``vacancy`` sign that spluttered overhead .................

........... ``good evening, velcom to harvud jaansun....... are you from india ?........ my name is govardhan patel, this is my daughter karishma `` ......... in the background I saw a woman in salwar kameej looking at me with lustful eyes- she had the same sultry and haunting look as the scrawny woman at dunkin donut …………” she is the night aaditer and she goes to the komuneety kalig – studying to be a physical thurapist” …..……… and i thought I heard her whisper , “you can check out any time, but you just can’t leave “ ………… across the street men in white robes and hoods were burning a cross on somone’s lawn ........i noticed one of them was wearing a big-toe-in-strap chappal and had rather dark feet ........

I know, most people in West Punjab speak Punjabi,but what is happening at official level?
Can anyone throw some light?

Following article is not very old.

A People Without a Language
Eric Cyprian




It is a unique phenomenon that the educated Punjabi is ashamed of
his own mother tongue and thinks that it is the language of the
uncultured. He therefore, takes pride in the fact that he is
illiterate in his mother tongue, though he may speak it fluently and
use it for special purposes. Urban educated Punjabis use their
mother tongue for informal conversation, especially in the exchange
of obscenities with intimate friends in stag parties or in all male
company. They are almost totally ignorant of the riches in their
mother tongue and many of them have heard of some of the classics in
Punjabis but have the haziest idea of the content of well-known
poems. They may be familiar with some Punjabi songs and a few folk
songs made popular by films and TV and radio artists. Till recently
Punjabi language and literature were not taught at any stage in the
Punjab. About two decades ago with great difficulty the Punjab
University was persuaded to start post graduate studies in Punjabi
language and literature, and there is a steady stream of students
who have completed their MA studies in Punjabi and have gone out to
teach Punjabi to Intermediate and BA students in some colleges.
Teachers in schools and colleges do not encourage students to take
up the formal study of Punjabi. In rural areas teachers and
principals of some colleges exert their utmost influence on students
desirous of taking up the formal study of Punjabi and usually
succeed in dissuading them from taking up Punjabi as one of their
elective subjects. The few lecturers appointed in colleges in the
Punjab are treated as untouchables by their colleagues and made to
feel inferior to lecturers in other subjects.


One reason for the alienation of the Punjabi educated people from
their mother tongue is the flexibility of the upper classes to
collaborate with the enemy. When the British came the opportunists
flocked to bend their knees to the new rulers and made enormous
gains thereby. Later when Pakistan was established it was the
Punjabi elite who in alliance with the Urdu speaking that controlled
the machinery of the state and also manipulated the levers of
financial and economic power. They thus formed the ruling class, but
for obvious reasons did not wish to be recognized for what they
were. They therefore, disowned the Punjabi language and identified
the ideology of Pakistan with Urdu, Islam, and the two-nation
theory. Now that ethnic grouping has become a reality which cannot
be swept under the carpet, and when the Pathans, Baloch, Sindhi and
Urdu speaking mahajirs have asserted their identities and claimed
their share in the governance of the country, the Punjabis per force
will also have to recognize themselves for what they are and be
content with their own part of Pakistan. This recognition has just
started and in a few years time Punjabis will be as proud of their
culture and language as Sindhis, Pathans and Baloch are of their
language and culture.


To trace the decline of the Punjabi language and literature in our
Punjab we have to delve deep into our history to find the causes for
this decline. It is surprising that during the Sikh rule in the
Punjab the court language remained Persian and all legal and
government documents, firmans, etc were in the language used by the
Moguls in their state business. But Punjabi flourished both among
the Sikhs and the Muslims because of the fact that for the Sikhs
their sacred books were in Punjabi language written in the Gurmukhi
script while for the Muslims there was a body of mystic poetry by
the great Sufi saints of Punjab which was the means for the
illiterate masses to get acquainted with their religion.


For the Sikhs the Granth Sahib was the sacred book and hence
literacy in Punjabi was a religious duty. In the case of the Muslims
since the bulk of the Sufi mystic poetry was committed to memory and
recited by a large number of bards, poets, and entertainers,
literacy was not all that necessary. Apart from the poetry there was
the large body of religious oratory of the zakirs of Multan who
displayed their art during the Muharram when they moved millions to
tears with their masterly rhetorical renderings of the tragic epic
of the Karbala. For these reasons literacy in Punjabi was not
widespread among Muslims.


Throughout history Punjab has been on the route followed by invading
armies from the times of Alexander the Great, and even earlier. It
therefore became part of Punjabi culture to resist these invaders
even if they were Muslims. There exists a vast body of resistance
poetry in the shape of dholas and vars, (forms of narrative poetry)
which chronicle the brave deeds of the people of the Punjab when
they opposed the invaders and waged their own form of guerilla
warfare against the alien armies. These poems were part of the rich
folk literature in Punjabi which has fortunately been recorded on
tapes and preserved by the National Institute of Folk Heritage. The
field workers and research workers of the Institute have done their
job, but as yet scholars and folklorists have not as yet made use of
these treasures to piece together the history of the people of
Punjab.


The foreigners were quick to recognize the political power of the
Punjabi language and once they gained control over the province they
determined to deprive the people of the Punjab of this weapon. The
British administrators brought with them a whole team of lower level
administrators from those provinces where their rule had been
consolidated and from where the British had recruited and trained a
large number of clerks, lower level police officers, patwaris etc.
Most of these were Urdu speaking men from the United Provinces of
Agra and Oudh. It will be recalled that the British had earlier in
Calcutta established Fort William College, an institution for the
development of Urdu as the language of the part of the
administrators that had public dealings, in thanas, in revenue
matters and in the army. The government functionaries that came from
outside the Punjab to assist the British rule over the newly
conquered province were skilled in Urdu and hence it was adopted as
the language of administration at the public dealing level and in
education. In this way Urdu was established in the Punjab and
continues to dominate the cities. It is said that Urdu is the
language of sophisticated people while Punjabi is crude. It is also
alleged that Urdu is the refined form of Punjabi which is the crude
form of Urdu. The refinements of Urdu and the crudeness of Punjabi
are myths. The fact is that the difference between the two languages
is one that arises from the differences between the people who speak
them. The Urdu speaking are indeed sophisticated to the point of
being decadent, while Punjabi is crude to the point of being
straightforward and blunt and therefore honest and direct. Urdu is a
courtly language which is meticulous in making distinctions of
status whereas Punjabi is democratic and treats a man as a man. To a
Punjabi, Urdu appears to be cliche ridden, emasculated and an effete
language whereas Punjabi is a manly, honest plain practical speech
which can be as ornate, colorful, as sweet and as mellifluous as a
situation may require. It can be forceful and emphatic and when
necessary it can be as melodious as the cooing of a dove.


There is now a growing consciousness in the cities among educated
people that Punjabi language should be developed and used at all
levels in our public life as well as in our intellectual life. There
was therefore a sharp reaction to the announcement of the Punjab
chief minister that in future Urdu would be the official language in
government offices. There were protests against this decision in
many cities in the Punjab and the champions of Punjabis demanded
that Punjabi be the official language in the Punjab and that it
should immediately be made the medium of instruction in primary
education which will make Punjabis at least literate in their mother
tongue. This is important because once the people of the Punjab
become literate in their mother tongue they will discover the vast
treasure of classical Punjabi poetry, the ocean of folk poetry which
is at present an altogether undiscovered country to them. Once they
begin to read Waris Shah`s Heer Ranjha, of Mian Mohammed Buksh`s
Saiful Maluk, the poetry of Bulleh Shah, Shah Hussain, Sultan Bahoo,
Ghulam Farid to name only a few of the works which at present are
closed books to most educated Punjabis. The second advantage of this
would be to abolish the artificial barrier that now exists between
the common people of the Punjab and the educated elite. And thirdly
we all would be able to read and understand contemporary Punjabi
literature, both prose and poetry. It might then be possible to
start a newspaper and publish books in Punjabi for educational
purposes as well as for the general reader. Many of our mass
literacy programs fail because we teach the illiterate adult not his
mother tongue but a foreign language. If a mass adult literacy
program were to make usr of Punjabi it would be an instant success,
because the learner would not have the double task of learning a
script well as learning a new language.

Manto thinks Veeresh is a crook. Manto says Veeresh is a liar. Manto also believes that `the quality of Pakistan manufactured cars is a thousand times better than India`.

Cars like the Sitara , the Pride of Pakistan ...


Sporting a 175 cc engine, the Sitara runs on petrol, has a 10-litre fuel tank and a four speed manual transmission. It can achieve a top speed of 60 kmph.

Lastly , Manto is of the view that Veeresh is jealous of Pakistan...

KKKhuram ...and while you were busy writing about the sex lives of old forgotten hindi movie actresses , your wife was getting humped by your brahmin boss...

Just had a question for the dakhani Brahmans. There are quite a few Tamil Brahmin babes in Bollywood like Hema Malini, Rekha, Sridevi, Vyjantimala, Kalpana Iyer, etc. Why the fvck do they behave like common whores? I am being serious when I ask- is this genetic ? seems like they like the big shlongs of the north Indians. Most people would agree that 90% of tamil Brahmin girls are ugly as home made lye soap, then how can you let your good looking gals fornicate around with north indians/Punjabis. Or is it because the Tamil Brahmin male species have pin-head for dicks? Lets look at some of the examples here

Hema Malini, she could not find one single “suitable” Tamil Brahmin and just settled to be the second wife of Dharmendra (even converted to ISLAM to make the marriage legal)

Sridevi, fought long & hard to seduce and became second wife of movie producer, Boney Kapoor

Rekha, was just so happy just to be the mistress of Amitabh Bachchan and just get a few fvcks here and there

Kalpana Iyer, the very naked Cabaret Dancer with thundering thighs, successor to Helen. Kalpana Iyer used to humped by Amjad Khan and Mehmood, who took turns to have their wild ways with her. She was really used/abused. I feel sooo sorry for her.

Vyjantimala, only respectable one who married Punjabi doctor, Dr. Bali

And last but not the least the international tamil Brahmin model, Padma Lakshmi. How could the young, shapely(a bit dark for my taste) Padma Lakshmi marry Salman Rushdie, the old and fat and bald fart with a still pending fatwa/death sentence on his head from none other than the one and only Ayatollah Khomeini and the Supreme Council for Islamic Revolution in Iran?? I mean could Padma Lakshmi not find one (just one) “suitable” tamil Brahmin boy?

I am asking this question in all seriousness and please don’t take this the wrong way. Anyways, if I hurt anyones feelings, I just want to say- good for you and now you can kiss my azz.

To end all conflict, I follow tahmed32`s lead by nominating:

Hamidm2 for world religious leader!

Kardesh for minister for promotion of sufficient vice and prevention of excessive virtue.

saminasha and scout for ministers for feminist affairs and keeping kardesh in his place.

ntsyed for promotion of sex education and supply of prurient literature.

That covers all of a Pope`s duties and concerns.

Flowering of love

TAVLEEN SINGH | Afternoon Thursday, March 17, 2005 15:32:58 IST

My father`s family were victims of Partition and I grew up on stories of violence and hatred.

A friend of mine went to Pakistan for the first time some months ago. Her family comes from Lahore and Partition took away their home, their businesses, their culture, their roots, their memories. She was a child then and remembers little of what happened but grew up with the bitter ness and anger elders in the family felt and so went to Pakistan expecting to hate it. ``I went because I wanted to see where my roots were, where my family came from, that`s all. I never expected to like it, leave alone love it and you know what, I loved it. I loved the sound of Punjabi being spoken, I loved Lahore for being such a Punjabi city and I loved the people and their overwhelming hospitality.`` There is of late a Punjabi love fest taking place on the sub-continent. Pakistani Punjabis who came to watch the cricket match in Mohali expressed sentiments similar to those of my friend and newspapers report that when Punjab`s Chief Minister, the erstwhile Maharajah of Patiala, crossed the Wagah border last week he was given a welcome the likes of which has rarely been seen even in these days of Punjabiat in full flower.

Alien country

As a Punjabi myself I am both intrigued and surprised by this flowering of love between the two halves of my home state. My father`s family were victims of Partition and I grew up on stories of violence and hatred. My grandmother, who had never been to Delhi till Partition, hated Muslims to the end of her days because she blamed them for taking away her home and forcing her to become a refugee in what to her was an alien country. For more than ten years she lived in a squalid bazaar in Karnal in what they called `evacuee property`. It was a tall, narrow house called Hasan Manzil that consisted of a collection of windowless rooms that opened onto a dank courtyard that reeked of animal dung. There was no running water and my earliest memories are redolent with the smell of dirty toilets and the open drains that ran along side Hasan Manzil. In my memories these smells pervade conversations that were mostly about the terrible violence that the elders in my family had seen and so, like a lot of other Punjabis of my generation, my childhood was dominated by dislike of a country I had never seen but was said to be where we came from - Pakistan.

When I visited this country for the first time in 1980 I found myself overwhelmed by the affection and warmth with which people greeted me and puzzled by the absence of hatred despite the wars and the violence of Pakistan`s separation from India. In the eighties I went back many times to cover events that ranged from Zia-ul-Haq`s referendum and the aftermath of his death, the advent of Benazir Bhutto and her decline. And, it was only when a series of mistakes by our leaders revived the Kashmir problem in 1989 that my visits to Pakistan became infected with an undercurrent of hostility. This reached its highest level in the summer of 2001 when in the streets of Lahore and Karachi it was hard to mention that you were Indian without someone throwing Kashmir in your face. Then, General Pervez Musharraf came to Agra and stomped out of the summit after throwing a tantrum over Kashmir. This confirmed to our own hawks in South Block that there was no point in pursuing friendship with Pakistan unless we were ready to hand Kashmir over on a platter. In the words of a senior MEA (Ministry of External Affairs) official, `The problem is Kashmir. They say give us Kashmir and there will be peace`. So since no Indian government, leave alone one controlled by a lady of Italian descent, can hand over Kashmir how can there be all this peace and love breaking out in Punjab? What has changed?

Public opinion

In my view what has changed is that it has become easier than it has ever been for ordinary Indians and Pakistanis to meet each other. In the old days it was only Muslims with relatives on the other side who could get visas and so the divide deepened and with it came suspicion and a contempt for each other`s religious beliefs that were fully exploited by the military men who ruled Pakistan with Kashmir as the rallying point, the symbol of Hindu perfidy. The only way the residue of the past can be expunged from the present is for us to make it even easier for ordinary people to cross the border and discover that the bogeymen they thought dwelt on the other side do not exist. This suits India more than Pakistan because public opinion has more power here than it does in our friendly neigbourhood military dictatorship. It also suits us because the average Pakistani needs to come here to discover that south of Delhi there is little interest left in either Kashmir or enmity with Pakistan. He also needs to discover that India has moved on economically despite Kashmir and its attendant problems because India is in a better position to afford permanent hostilities than Pakistan. If this message gets conveyed to the ruling Generals there could be some chance that sooner or later they will understand that when they talk about `flexibility` on the Kashmir issue it has to mean something less than being handed Kashmir on a platter. Meanwhile, let us celebrate Punjabiat because, as analysts cleverer than I have pointed out, it could be the key to peace on our benighted sub-continent

Re: # 514, Temporal bhai saheb, if there is snow and cold wind and rain in Toronto in April then it is time to head back to where the weather is fast becoming better. Believe me. Never mind the syntax. And especially since now with the advent of rampant hordes of Dunkin Donuts in addition to Amul Butter and condensed milk all over the place you can it seems get the same Gujarati Food getting increasingly popular all over the place. Say after me, three times, ``Jai Shrikhand kee!!``

Kardesh 517, I am not making a big deal out of any two nuts in Lahore, they are welcome to their own life, though I am intensely grateful and thankful to the Ladies & Lords above for their bestowing such favours on Karachi, imagine, 3 Dunkin Donuts, last time I went to Karachi they had not even heard about masala dosa and filter coffee with misal on the side, basundi to follow.

And this is for Yasser and Omar:- HaHa a moron a bigot a crook HaHa.

Hamidm for Pope!! long live interfaith shinterfaith!!

...... i hate to say this but i just don`t understand all the hoopla around the death an old man who wore funny clothes and passed out the wine and cookies - anyone can do that job ............. this kind of stuff shakes my faith in the white man who seems to be as silly as us colored folks when it comes to superstition ........ it is kind of scary - not as scary as the donut girl, but scary nevertheless ................

re:#445 by kkkhurram
``... seems like large numbers of Dalits and tribals and shudras in India are converting to Christianity in droves despite the draconian anti-conversion bills which are being introduced/legislated in all Brahmin run-RSS-BJP ruled states to keep the status of Dalits as garbage/sh...``
Kkkhurram Miyan,
It seems to me that your country Pakistan is falling apart. Baluchistan wants to secede. Sindhis are not happy. There is a nationwide strike and more is being planned for the future. Your Jehadis are not happy with Mushy and nobody is happy with USA.
Meanwhile, Ahmediyas stand excommunicated and Shias and Sunnis are killing each other.
In India, at least the Hindus are not killing each other. There sure is caste problem but this is age old and will slowly wither away. Dalit empowerment is to be celebtated.
Sridhar
BTW, are u a Shia, Sunni, Ahmediya, a Pakjabi, or just an a$$hole?

Job Opening for all underemployed chowkies...(send resume to the Vatican)

The Pope is dead (May God bless his soul)

#516 ``today is the hopefully the last cold day here in toronto.``

obviously you are an incurable optimist.

mr t. yaar baraf hi thakhhnee thhee to muree ki saer kar laytay. Why go all the way to canada.

Re: # 403

You are wrong about Veeru Sehwag and Bobby Deol , Sunny Deol and Dharmendra belonging to the same caste--forgive me for bringing up caste again but this for purely for the sake of accuracy

There is a big difference between the haryanvi or western UP ``JAAT`` and a Punjabi Jat( pronounced ``Jut`` as opposed to ``Jaat``..they are not at all the same people and dont share the same roots.

Ref kaalchakra #504

[More important point is to recognize that the average subcontinental Muslim does not practice and has never practiced, Islam.]

In that case, can we kill them all? Please, please! Pretty please with a donut on top, as Veeresh might say!

(Evil grin)

#480 by satyamvada, {``Stuka, You said you wanted to exterminate me.``}

Sat,
You know what? Stuka has a brilliant idea every now and then.

#513, veeresh, {``... my God forgives me all the time and has a fairly good laugh while throwing a curve ball every now and then ...``}

Veeresh,
Your God certainly has a sense of humor. In addition to a good curve ball, I suggest he throw you three rapid 110 mph fastballs in succession.

You have been making a big deal out of the Dunkin Donut issue. Let it be known, I have just found out from the Karachi article by Sameena Iqbal, that Karachi, that greatest of South Asian metropolitan marvels, has not one but at least three DDs. It`s amazing how the outlets survive merely on the sale of java. Karachiites, unlike the aslee ghee-loving, fat-obsessed, doughnut dribbling, obese Punjoos from Lahore and/or Delhi are conscious of their physique and avoid the fried jelly-filled sugar-laden fat generators.

today is the hopefully the last cold day here in toronto. believe me we had big flakes of snow this morning. crazy....

Re: # 498:

hamidm...you must have been groggy that morning, so you did not notice the Vilayati Gujarati inflections. It will be three dole-arse and foutty saints, pliss...and not ``three dallars and farty two cents, pleese``.

And have naas day and kerm (if she was reallly sultry, she might have been emboldened to say....naas day to kerm...) not ``have a nice day and come``.

veeru:

early morning flight?

it is a mix of rain and snow out the window

t

Temporal Bhai Saheb, my God forgives me all the time and has a fairly good laugh while throwing a curve ball every now and then when life becomes too straight and narrow, but for the life of me I can not understand what hamidm2 was doing at a Dunkin Donuts as five:thirty in the morning?

Has summer come to Toronto?

Temporal

Yes, the smiling God is good, the only one that can appeal to you and me.

---

OK...our points are made. :)

k:

and my God smiles

t

temporal

I know, my Hindu friend temporal.

And you and your family have been right, since Islam has nothing to offer you over and above what you already have :)

k:

if it was not this early i would have taken out the wings from the garage and flown to hamidm`s

but yes, you are wise

t

re: temporal # 507

Well, may be you don`t know our peoples well enough :)

Except for a handful of folks directly supported by Arabs, and sharply seggregated from most of their neighbors, people of the subcontinent have overwhelmingly persevered, against all political odds, in their own native religion. That`s the much crazier and sillier religion that the glorious Islam.

Islam renamed a third of the people, even changed the emotional and political commitments of many, but hardly convinced them enough to actually follow its teachings.

To the native subcontinental mind, it is only the crazier and sillier religion of saints, bhajans, dance and dargahs and tabiz that makes sense.

I suspect, unless you begin trying very hard now, you too have not been able to give up this crazy religion of your own. :)

K:

there are a billion plus

i don`t know them all

:)

temporal # 505

t, people who maintain caste distinctions, follow saints, visit dargahs, and do other such silly Hindu things are surely not following Islam.

Agreed?

#504:

the ayatullah has spoken

;)

re: dost-mittar # 499

More important point is to recognize that the average subcontinental Muslim does not practice and has never practiced, Islam.

bongdongs:

:)

this is still early here so forgive me for not recalling whether it is love or lust ...one or the other or both...that recognises no....er.....caste, religion or nationality...

...am convoluting here?...

ok..let me try again...it has less to do with hamidm...and more to do with ms. patel

(there bro...just rescued you from mrs. hamidm`s ire)

rgds

t

re: hamidm # 498

ROTFL

You write so amazingly well.

May be, next time, use the broader terms `Indian` or `Hindoo.` So no one group will feel the sting :)

#498

You mean Hamid actually get confused for an Indian? I would have thought there would no semblance of similarity.

Re: # 498
LOL - I`m glad I checked in today :))

kaalchakra#496:

``Islam cannot, must not, be blamed for the prevalence of caste system in Pakistan.``

Did I? (scratching the head icon)

....nightmare at dunkin donut .............

.......... i might be paranoid, but lately it seems all the dunkin donuts are owned by fat bald patels and their skinny female relatives with big fat nose rings ........ so even though i like their coffee, i have stopped going there - there is something unsavory and downright scary about being eyed by an emaciated gujarati woman at five thirty in the morning ............``are you from india,`` she says with a sultry smile, casting a furitive look at the fat bald man picking his nose at the other end of the counter ............``i guess she thinks i am salman khan`s cousin,`` i think to myself .......... the thought that i might have actually responded to this pathetic creature in my younger and more desperate days send a shiver down my spine ........ i see dead people .............

.........``one plain glazed, a french cruller and a large cup of coffee,``.............. ``where you from in india,`` she says with that evil look in her eye ........... ``oh my god !..... she wants me,`` ......... i begin to panic as i can`t see the fat patel anymore ......... maybe he went off to deliver donuts to his other store in his 1987 cadillac; maybe he is in the back room with the blonde with bad teeth; maybe he is in on this little sex game ..........``three dallars and farty two cents, pleese,`` she says and again give me this look ...........``don`t panic !..... just give her the money and get out of here; and for god`s sake don`t hyper ventilate !``...........where are the cops when you need them !............... ``pipty eight cents, your change sir ......have a nice day and come ``................... i bolt for the door as the cop car pulls into the parking lot ......... the smell of evil follows me - maybe it is just heeng !

Re: # 495

Poor Veeresh... has the dunkin donut issue hurt you so much? BTW... just so that you are clear... we didn`t go to Dunkin Donuts to eat... it was a joke. Don`t get jealous ... ok... we won`t go to Dunkin Donuts without you.

Like I said... you think everyone is a crook like you...

As for doing better than Omar? who ever he is... I am afraid I am not in it for insults. I think you are a crook... and nothing more.

re: dost-mittar # 490

Respectfully, I suggest we don`t confuse anyone`s understanding of Islam by bringing in discussions of subcontinental Muslims.

Islam cannot, must not, be blamed for the prevalence of caste system in Pakistan. Subcontinental Muslims have middle eastern names. They do not practice Islam.

Re: # 494, Dear Yasser, at least your friend Omar was better. He came up with the now-world famous haha haha and moron stuff.

Vaise, at what stage did you figure out that Stuka was pulling your chain on the dunkin donuts issue, just curious?

Re: # 493

Dear crook... get a life.

Re: # 492, Yasser ji, there are 86.48% more Pakistanis than Indians taking issue about your most un-Jinnah like stopover with Stuka at Dunkin Donuts. In addition I am reliably informed that there is a strong possibility of an anti-Lahore donuts front being started at an abandoned beach shack ex-temple off Manora Beach Karachi by a chowkie with heavy exposure in the baallooshahi forward trading market.

Also, the one-dayInternational tea-break at Kochi served vada-sambar which is like a savoury donut with lentil sauce.

So there! And I never said Lahore was not superior to Delhi. I always said that Lahore was superior to Rajpur (Pb) and Dhandari Kalan (Pb) and also superior to Jhumari Talaiya (Jh).

It is sad that one quick stop at Dunkin Donuts as a joke... has been made a scapegoat by the Indians here... All because one of them has reaffirmed that their ideas about Pakistan are wrong.

Ah well... life goes on.

.... What is DOWN RIGHT hypocritical is how Mr Veeresh Malik is making an issue of this... when this anglophile wannabe ... had declared only a few months ago that Delhi was superior to Lahore because more people spoke in English in Delhi.

Re: # 489, Hari Om Har Har Mahadev, what does it matter ji? Let us all just agree to open a veggie Dunkin` Donuts at Manora and all issues will be solved, IMHO.

malikjahanzeb#465

``...i think that it is one of the very few things about islam that it inherently defies caste-ism. islam is so greedy about its spreading that it takes caste system as a hinderance in its way and therefore goes as far as explicitly discouraging this philosophy. i know this to be a fact and do not need a hindu with quarter-baked knowledge of islam to tell me this.``

Malik Saheb:

You are absolutely correct as far as Islam is concerned, but I wouldn`t be so sure about subcontinental muslims. Caste was so deeply entrenched in the psyche of the Indian society that even conversion couldn`t get rid of it; you could take his relgion out of an upper caste hindu but you couldn`t take his caste out of him. Rajput Muslims - Kardesh is a good example at chowk here - who converted to Islam were so fiercely proud of their caste that they adopted muslim sounding first names but kept their caste names. So, you would see that in Pakistan, names like Tiwana, Cheema, Bhatti, Gill, Minhas, Chauhan, Raja, Khokhar abound. Those who converted from lower castes - especially in UP and Bihar - dropped their caste names and adopted the names of what they thought were `oonchi zaat` among Muslims, such as Syeds and Qureishis. It was quite common among Musims of a generation ago to say that they belonged to `oonchi zaat`, as the zaat was so mixed up with social class in the society.

A contemporary of mine, Prof. Imtiaz Ahmad, a sociology professor at Jawahar Lal University in New Delhi, has done seminal work on Castes among Muslims in India.

Temp # 486

You are right. But that 3 by 3 feet solitary room at Manora can not be really categorized as a Mandar. The Mandars that I saw in Candy or in Kathmandu were bristling with activity. These were huge places with Moorties, Pundits, incence, diyas, even goat sacrifice in Kathmadu, Prashad, bells, prayers, Bhajans, holy water being sprinkled or water being offered in case of Shiva`s ritual in Kathmandu.

That small room in Manora which the general public was using as a changing room for swim into the sea is not the THING. It was very badly kept and had no owner.

nhk

Re: # 487 Tabu must be result of an act of betreyal involving a punjabi male. can`t be a female because the birth took place in south.

as they say in pakistan,

`Butt kaala haraam daa`

(please don`t confuse Butt with butt. it`s a caste)

Ref cayenne #485

[...I wonder where the hawk nosed , high-cheekboned, `fair and lovely` layered punjabi witches are?.Spreading their legs for south indian and sindhi film producers in bollywood so they get cast in a movie i guess.All power to them.If one can`t use one`s brains, then one should use the other end to survive, i guess.I have no problems with that.]

You seem to have nailed the broads correctly. Thus we have Simran, Sonia Agarwal, Jothika and Chhaya Singh as regulars, Naghma and Khushbhoo as former regulars and Sonali Bendre, Tabu, Bipasha Basu and Aishwarya Rai as sometime-regular movie actresses on the South Indian screen.

Bimbos Rule!

nazar:

i thought you were with us in Manora when we saw that mandir!

in karachi i took M on a tour of six functioning mandirs...one opposite KMC, one by the native jetty, two in soldier bazar, one near islamia college, and the clifton one

and there maybe more


t

#403 by kkkhurram on April 1, 2005 6:04am PT

Hema malini, Rekha, Kalpana Iyer, Vyjayanthi Mala, Waheeda Rehman are all tamil.Interesting.I was incorrect, i guess on the antecedents of Hayden and Rai.All the beautiful women of India whither, actresses/models , sports stars or professionals who make a mark in their fields(worldwide president of PepsiCo-Indira Nooyi from Chennai, `professional` e.g.)all seem to be from the south, whereas if one would go by the rantings of the paks and punjabis , the people of the south are ugly, black and unappealing.I wonder where the hawk nosed , high-cheekboned, `fair and lovely` layered punjabi witches are?.Spreading their legs for south indian and sindhi film producers in bollywood so they get cast in a movie i guess.All power to them.If one can`t use one`s brains, then one should use the other end to survive, i guess.I have no problems with that.

Re: # 463, Dr. Livingstone, I am curious, in your search for civilisation, are you going to be carrying donuts as gifts for your friends in Coorg?

Dost-Mitter # 400

(Advani to open temple in Lahore)

That is interesting. Who gives them these fresh ideas of CBMs? I will get to visit a temple in Pakistan for the first time though I have visited them in Nepal & Sri Lanka.

5 Ultralight aircraft of `Ultralight & Sports Flying Club` Lahore are flying to India on 7 April on a tour. These Microlights are being flown by their owners.

nhk

a good one from daily yawn:

http://www.dawn.com/weekly/dmag/dmag1.htm

chakra,

I am living in cananda, lekin yaar ghareeb aadmi ki bhi kiya life hay, zinda rehne ke ilawa kuch kerne ko paisa hi nahin hota. :-(

after leaving rawalpindi some two years ago, i have starting burning in the `judaai` of that dirty city which has nothing special to offer. my patriotism or whatever has taken a strange transformation. now i am patriatic only for the land, surroundings and atmosphere. i think my first love will remain rawalpindi/islamabad since no other place can be an alternative to my early years spent there. but when i think of let`s say karachi, where i havn`t been even a single time and which doesn`t have kind of a culture (all that sufism, poetry, punjab like feel), i think i probably would put some of the indian cities ahead of it.

i donot want to be a partriatic in the sense of the state of pakistan because i know that governments are the ones running the show and they don`t necessarily possess the ideas which i happen to possess and that they might do something (or might be doing at the moment) which can bring shame on me, so why be fool idealists? all that is natural has to do with land, people and culture. nationalism and patriatism is oversimplification and can lead to absurdities.

anways, right now i am in the struggle of getting some bucks in my pocket so that i can visit india, bangladesh and most important, rawalpindi and lahore.

mj

Stuka,

You said you wanted to exterminate me
And you said `` don`t ever claim kinship with a Punjabi`` wheras you want to your
own ``punjabi-kinship`` eh ?

You advocated exclusivity and also exterminating me - so you are not a fascist ?

All that I am claiming is Indians and Pakistani`s have different value systems which
shows up in the things we value and institutions we create. Superficial things such
as food, songs are just that - superficial.

So, I just suggest to you, that you should think through issues. Also, dont be
afraid to tell the truth to your Pakistani friends/acquaintances.
Admitting and acknowledging differences is a strength and leads to stronger
bonds over a longer period.
Look at Pakiland, that nation was once conceived to be a `single-unit` now
look at how it fights. We in India, acknowledge our differences and in the
process India has grown stronger, because our values
are similiar and we have common institutions.

So, Stuka-vohra - calm down, think and act grown up.

Satyamvada:

I am not an ethno-fascist as I am claiming kinship not superiority, unlike you.