Pakistan Travelogue I

chakra,

I am living in cananda, lekin yaar ghareeb aadmi ki bhi kiya life hay, zinda rehne ke ilawa kuch kerne ko paisa hi nahin hota. :-(

after leaving rawalpindi some two years ago, i have starting burning in the `judaai` of that dirty city which has nothing special to offer. my patriotism or whatever has taken a strange transformation. now i am patriatic only for the land, surroundings and atmosphere. i think my first love will remain rawalpindi/islamabad since no other place can be an alternative to my early years spent there. but when i think of let`s say karachi, where i havn`t been even a single time and which doesn`t have kind of a culture (all that sufism, poetry, punjab like feel), i think i probably would put some of the indian cities ahead of it.

i donot want to be a partriatic in the sense of the state of pakistan because i know that governments are the ones running the show and they don`t necessarily possess the ideas which i happen to possess and that they might do something (or might be doing at the moment) which can bring shame on me, so why be fool idealists? all that is natural has to do with land, people and culture. nationalism and patriatism is oversimplification and can lead to absurdities.

anways, right now i am in the struggle of getting some bucks in my pocket so that i can visit india, bangladesh and most important, rawalpindi and lahore.

mj

Stuka,

You said you wanted to exterminate me
And you said `` don`t ever claim kinship with a Punjabi`` wheras you want to your
own ``punjabi-kinship`` eh ?

You advocated exclusivity and also exterminating me - so you are not a fascist ?

All that I am claiming is Indians and Pakistani`s have different value systems which
shows up in the things we value and institutions we create. Superficial things such
as food, songs are just that - superficial.

So, I just suggest to you, that you should think through issues. Also, dont be
afraid to tell the truth to your Pakistani friends/acquaintances.
Admitting and acknowledging differences is a strength and leads to stronger
bonds over a longer period.
Look at Pakiland, that nation was once conceived to be a `single-unit` now
look at how it fights. We in India, acknowledge our differences and in the
process India has grown stronger, because our values
are similiar and we have common institutions.

So, Stuka-vohra - calm down, think and act grown up.

Satyamvada:

I am not an ethno-fascist as I am claiming kinship not superiority, unlike you.

Thanks, masanamuthu, my brother, that was well said. But I fear that that situation may not apply all over India! :(

Satymavada, can anything be done to speed up this natural process? Will in-the-face-symbolic moves backfire on us? What do you think?

malik saheb, are you in the US or in Pakistan? May be with God`s grace we can make that pilgrimmage happen sometime!

satyamvada,
I agree that criticism of bad things in other religion is fine, but it should not be repeated so often that it reduces the relevence of the messege.

Stuka wrote:
``Satyamvada is a Brahminesque Ethno Fascist, his type deserves to be exterminated``

stuka you are pathetic....that is the best you can throw at me :)
You are the one who is claiming some kind ethnic ``punjabi-kinship`` and you call me
ethno-fascist ?
Do you even know the meaning of words that you use ?
come on man, grow up.


BTW, coming to Masanamuthu`s comments.
My own ``guess``is that caste-problems will start going down exponentially in India in
about 10-15 years and be eliminated in about 35-40 years.
Why ? Because, in society a new generation is born every 20-25 years. So the
kids who are born now will be in a society that is much less caste centric in about 15-20
years. The generation following them in about 35 years will be in almost a caste free
society. In the same period, India`s economic growth and education would have made
caste totally irrelevant

Strange ummah this....members of which (hindu/muslim/sikh) are always busy hacking each other and raping wives of one another ...with temporary bouts of brotherhood and peace...

``Nobody is proclaiming that you and I are the same. I am claiming kinship with fellow Punjabis``

Whats this ? A Punjabi Ummah ? Hahaha...

Actually, the reference in # 469 should have been to Malik Saheb`s # 465

Thus spake a Punjabi! :)

malik saheb # 466

Yeh hum dono alag sides me kaise paida ho gaye? Our thinking is bilkul hoo ba hoo ek!


I hope we can get back to focusing on solving the problem of caste WITHIN hinduism. Islam has other issues, not the issue of caste. Besides, we can cure only our disease!

Re: # 469
>>Yeh hum dono alag sides me kaise paida ho gaye? Our thinking is bilkul hoo ba hoo ek!

the question is rather ke ye sides kiyoon paida ho gai hein?

i am a fan of ghalib`s and sometimes dream of a pilgrimage to his whereabouts in dehli, for which he said,

hay ab iss mamoora mein qehet-e-gham-e-ulfat Asad,
ham ne ye maana ke Dilli mein rahain, khayen gay kiya!

Re: # 469

``I hope we can get back to focusing on solving the problem of caste WITHIN hinduism. Islam has other issues, not the issue of caste. Besides, we can cure only our disease!..``

Actually, leading the prayers is no big deal.. I don`t know about other state`s practises. But mostly in TN, the brahmins have moved out of villages, and are working in different professions like all others.. People from the other castes are leading in prayers and other related stuff. But this is cosmetic at best..

If we want to get rid of ``caste``, we have to actively encourage inter-caste marriages.. I see a lot of positive signs in that space. There was a time when people had no choice except to marry whoever their parents wanted them to marry. But now they really have choice even though they have to pick and choose from within the caste if they are taking the ``arranged route``. I believe the next generation folks would mostly take care of their own marriages. With a good economic growth, and universal education, In 50 to 100 yrs, caste will be a thing of the past..

Satyamvada:

``Some naive Indian punjabis however will go across to pakiland eat oil-soaked
food, sing bhalle bhalle and then proclaim we are all the same.
``

Nobody is proclaiming that you and I are the same. I am claiming kinship with fellow Punjabis. You are not a Punjabi. I suggest you stick to eating Sambar Vada and don`t ever claim kinship with a Punjabi.

Satyamvada is a Brahminesque Ethno Fascist, his type deserves to be exterminated.

Hamidm2,

The plantations at coorg is now unfortunately owned by natives. You will also need
them to bring you the booze and the stuff to smoke, so be nice to them until
atleast the time you leave.