Pakistan Travelogue I

good piece , I know some Vohra`s in Karachi but they came from Gujrat. One big differance between India and Pakistan is that and I had been to Mumbai and Agra and Delhi etc.. there is more poverty in India somehow , once I saw a 4 - star hotel throwing garbage out and people flocking to find some food . India is great , its where my fore-fathers came from Fatehpur Sikri - time is very much still there the last time I visited there in /03 alhough they made a 5 star hotel there but the life of odinary people never changed specially of Muslim Community living there because I assume they don`t study ! I know if my grand father would have opted to stay in India , my father would be a dam guide rather then one of the top. I.B officers in Pakistan. For people like us ( who migrated ) Pakistan is a heaven.
by the way guys ` Congrats. on Pakistan ( s ) test victory ` go Inzi go.....

Good luck getting the booze back.

Stuka, I do think this is well written but too long to take in all at once. Now Punjab is Texas?
About your comment about Delhi lacking a sense of continuity, I do not particularly like Delhi, but I think you may miss the continuity because you are a Punjabi, a relative newcomer. Ask those families who have lived in Delhi for hundreds of years and they may have a different story. They may in fact tell you, as they have told me, that Delhi was a magical place ``before the refugees came in``.
While you were actually in Pakistan, I did notice that your hosts were anxious that another Indian visitor should be proven wrong and then I heard you were abusing this Indian visitor as well? It was all a bit strange.
It seems like you did enjoy yourself, so I hope you get to go again.
(PS, can I use your name to get a discount at the Dome Retreat in the Brisbane Mariott?)

Stuka

Good flowing article.

Although Cabin Crew of all Airlines behave the same way (confident, casual, a bit miser), the Indian & Pakistani crew is almost identical - in looks, accent and feel.

About the Bottles - you should have told customs that you are a non-Muslim; and produced a medical perscription where consunmption of liquer is advised. (and told customs to keep 2 bottles)

nhk

Stukay.. u r running very fast...slow down..we need more details..! please be elobrate in next part.

NHK saab.. although u r the authority on this but i having been travelled on both airlines...would say that although they may have similer looks and accents but definately not ``feel``

PIA crew is definately more accessable and hospitable.

Re: # 4
Can`t think of any medical reason to drink alcohol, even if you`re dependent, you can use benzodiazepines such as Valium instead. Good try!

So, we now finally have the long-awaited stuka travelogue. Interesting reading. This cross-border visits was indeed historic given that two or three generations have passed after the trauma of partition, and only now people started visiting their ancestral homes.

Lahore indeed has a lot of cultural pride, and is also a great place for colleges and universities. I lived there 6 years as student, and it is very different from the places I was used to (Rawalpindi, Kohat, Murree and so forth). So, there is plenty of diversity in Pakistan, but hopefully this welcoming nature of people to visitors, particularly visitors from India, will be found in other parts of Pakistan as well. Lahoris do tend to be more exuberant in some ways - both in war and in peace. In 1965, they showed up on rooftops to cheer on the ``pakistan team`` during a couple of aerial dogfights (and a few of them got killed by stray bullets as I recall) - and now they show up with equal fervor to welcome the indian cricket team (as veeresh had reported earlier). It is this big heart that will no doubt make Lahore the spritual capital of all panjabis - on both sides of the border and abroad.

Looks like the ``chowk friendships`` added to the pleasure of visiting Pakistan. I assume there is more coming (since Stuka obviously has returned to the US, and not found himself a wife in Pakistan and settled down).

lahore is cool and stuff but karachi is much more dynamic and cosmopolitan and happening. next time, go there if you want to find what pak is all about.

Stukay! jhootay!

You were cursing your heart out at Veeresh... even before I showed you Dunkin Doughnuts and other landmarks of globalization.

Heera and Sohail still think Veeresh is some kind of local street gali in Delhi...

Ofcourse... I respect Veeresh`s right to his point of view... no matter how irrational... and was disturbed by your constant abuse in his direction. :)

re: Stuka

Yaar, slow down!

Stuka, this was a good article but you need to add more flavor to it by sharing your thoughts and details about Lahore, which a visitor might see and which escapes the locals. Looking forward to the next installment! :)

Ciao

Feroze:

This article is more about my arrival and trip to Bhaun and the details on Lahore follows. To an extent the article has this breathless quality to it, maybe because that is what my trip was like. Wonderful experiences compressed into a very short time.

For some reason it felt as if i have already read it before.

stuka,

..... you are making me homesick ! .... by the way, did you get the liquor back from customs ? ...... if you did, it would be nothing short of a miracle .....

For the record, Rozaiba took the reciept of the alcohol from me. He said he would have his friend get it out but that never happened. Unless, the friend did get it out and kept it. :(

Lahore remains the city of dreams for all Punjabis anywhere in the world.The very name of Lahore stirs something in the heart of a Punjabi,no matter where he is.Living on the east side of the wagah border has rather increased the attraction.Apart from punjabi language and food,third major binding force for Punjabis is still Lahore.Ony a few years ago,there was a punjabi song in east Punjab,
``ucha burj Lahore da,main khari sukaanwaan kes
yaar dikhaali day gaya,kar kay bhagwaan bhes``
...goes without saying,it was one of the most popular songs of its time(sung by Surindr Chhinda).
The phrase,``jehnay Lahore nahin dekheya,oh jammiyaan hi nahin``is still popular in the eastern side as well and believe me,no Punjabi wants to die without seeing Lahore......

stuka:

thank you for sharing your (breathless) trip with us!

...am treated to the spectacle of gorgeous Pakistani women dressed in dreamily fashionable kurtis and salwar kameezes....

...memory is the second thing that....khair......how many times do we have to go through the h in in shalwar bit?

now go to your keyboard and type there is an h in shalwar till your finger tips beome sore or till it registers permanently in the grey cells;)

rgds

t

Lahorites consider themselves the most cosmopolitan of all- as a matter of fact this sense of theirs sometimes extends into the in your face arrogance. For them anyone out of Lahore is a paindoo and there are several terms of endearment that they have invented for ``outsiders``. One such phrase is ``Lahore batiyaN daikhan aiy o?`` (Have you seen the city lights yet). The truth of the matter is that Lahore was the first city in united Punjab that transitioned from ``Lamp posts`` to ``Street Lights`` sometimes in 30s and remained so for quite sometime. In those times one of the favorite stories that visitors to Lahore used to tell when they got back home was about the ``bright city lights``. So the phenomenon become a proverb, if you will. A couple of other such proverbs are ``jinne Lahore naiN daikhiaya oh jamia hi naiN`` (he who has not seen Lahore, is not even born yet); another one is ``Lahore Lahore eh`` (Nothing like Lahore).

So when Yasser, took Stuka for a ride, the underlying psychology may be the one that is explained above. I know how hard it would have been for Yasser to restrain himself to asking stuka ``hor amrika pind da ki haal hay``. I am often asked this question from my friends and relatives.

Very Good article, Stukay.

Specially, the part about your visit to your native town. I can imagine what you might have been feeling in your land, I mean the land that was yours just before 1947 and then you were told that it is no more yours. It has been ``islamified`` just like the way other side of Punjab was ``sikhified/hindufied``.

What a pity that millions of people were forced to leave the place where they had grown up and spent so many years of their lives.

Then, I just don`t get it how people can become enemies, murderers and killers of their neighbours with whom they had spent so many years, shared so many happinesses and sorrows. Are they so much weak that a little bit of dirty politics, a few bad news coming from other side of the border or a greed for loot and plunder can cause them to kill their friends, village fellows etc.

The world is strange. A few bloody politicians and a few illiterate fanatics can cause so many problems for millions of people. Now, these fanatics should be happy. Now, the own son of this land needs to get a visa over a passport of a third country thousands of miles away to visit his own village. India and Pakistan are geographically so close but the distance is huge if anybody wants to travel between them.

Makes me remeber, Manto`s ``Toba Tek Singh``.

Politicians don`t realize how important their job is. While they are smoking cuban cigars, playing billiard, wearing english dresses, each document they sign can cause millions of ordinary hungry, poor dhoti wearing people being killed, raped, being deprived of their lands and so much.

Neither do religious fanatics understand their job. To them, their God, most possibly their imagination, is more important than physical realities around them. Fanatics are similar everywhere. Either it is Hindu, sikh, muslim or jew. To him, his imagination is bigger than the realities around him. While there might or might not be a God, it is important to keep him happy while making all people around you suffer and unhappy.

And the worst are ordinary people. How come they can be so easily betrayed by a few wicked men. A few national anthems, a little propoganda by government, ``evil`` preaching by a few fanatics cause them to lose their way.

I think, I am enough offtopic now...

stuka,
A nice article but did u go to the coutryside? If so how do they compare with the ones in India?

drlokraj,
Easy pal, punjabis lovely the city they live in be it Lahore or Bombay or Delhi or New York. Do go too much into the emotional world, stay in the real world.

Hmm..the fool goes across, walks down the streets and tells us how `we` (actually
punjabis ) are all the same.
He cursorily mentions dilapidated temples and is more interested in dunkin-donuts.
Conveniently forgets the legal system of pakiland, the institutions of bigotry that
pervade pakiland.

Hi Stuka (and Yasser), and thank you for an entertaining article.

The stuff about Bhaun is great. I am likely to be back in Lahore as soon as the permits for the Vintage Car Rally are in position and am sure that Yasser will greet me with open arms &c &c. We are looking at driving Amritsar to Lahore, and I am busy trying to get 4 vintage cars, all from the 1924-1932 era, ready.

That`s for the ``I want to go to Pakistan because I love the people there`` bit.

However, I still think `Pindi and Karachi are far better than Lahore. And that sleepy provincial hicktown Lahore is best compared to outskirts of Jullundur or Ludhiana, maybe Amritsar.

I have no doubt that Lahore has a great, dandy and spiffy airport, called Allama Iqbal after the famous Indian poet of the same name, and am in agreement that every hack from India on a junket worth his or her blue pencil has waxed poetic about this for the last few years. I am aware that the highways and motorways in Pakistan, built by the Americans to reach Afghanistan and by Tata-Daewoo to make some money out of tolls, are way better than anything in India, and have written about that too. And as for Dunkin` Donuts being the ultimate symbol of modernity, well, Krispy Kreme aside, forgive me for choking on my filter coffee or were you delivering that tongue in cheek?

Your article also brings out another aspect of Lahore which matches my perception - that this is a city living on its past glory. You call it ``continuity``, I call it ``decadence``.

And I am sure there are spiffy Pakistani women at the upper-class habitats, I have seen and met more than a few myself. Good luck to them. Why they are all dying to come to India to shop-till-they-drop is something I shall request you to ask them?

But. But. But.

The heart of a city is always the Railway Station and the yardstick for quantitative analysis are the environs therein.

So, and this remains unanswered by Yasser, within the context of the thousands of people moving between India and Pakistan, may we have it that a large percentage, say between 80% and 95%, move by train?

And that is what Yasser never gets to answer, nor do other LaHoris/visitors comment on. When will the first LaHori on chowk take that horrific train ride from Lahore to Wagah and write about it?

Yes, there are the same great Punjabi dudes there, and I spent quality time as well as got absolute hospitality from the cabbies/3-wheeler drivers there. Give them a few years, and they will get as smart as their cousins in Palam, Heathrow or Minita. It`s OK.

But I also saw the jihad boxes there aka chanda boxes and the hijab wearing women aka visitors from India - take your pick. Now these we didn`t see at Ghantaghar/Company Bagh, Paddington or CalTrain, did we? No, we only saw these at Lahore RS.

And as for the polite immigration/customs guys you met at the Allam Iqbal Airport, well, you need to check out their cousins at the Railway Terminal and inside the decrepit trains.

So Parag, while you can rightfully downgrade Delhi`s straining and struggling and overflowing IGI Delhi Airport, which has more civil passenger movements in a day than Lahore does in a month (these numbers are public domain, look for them) and mention the Kapashera Border with its huge traffic jams versus the easy entry-exit for the one in Lahore(I don`t have the numbers on trucks on the Delhi-Ambala Highway versus on the Lahore-`Pindi motorway, but you get what I mean?) . . . when you compare Lahore to Singapore, I think you are having us all on.

But then, you ain`t no Gul-Burger, are you?

Charlie:

You are right. Though the article is about my trip in general, the experience that will stay with me is my trip to Ketas and Bhaun. Lahore was a side show compared to the emotional impact of my visit to Bhaun.

veeresh: ``highways and motorways in Pakistan, built by the Americans to reach Afghanistan and by Tata-Daewoo to make some money out of tolls``

you forgot to mention the marutis and tata trucks you saw on these american made highways!! i dont believe a word of what you write anymore. goddam idiot. ha! ha!

tahmed32/24- I never said I saw TaTa trucks in Pakistan, I said I saw Hino trucks which had criticial aggregates from Ashok leyland . . . and I saw Suzuki-800cc carb version cars many of which were - ahem - of Indian origin. Open a bonnet now and then?

And why are you saying ``haha`` like Omar?

stayamvada: look what the doctors found in your genes. :-)



no wonder you are smoldering.

``Now, the own son of this land needs to get a visa over a passport of a third country thousands of miles away to visit his own village.``

This was exactly the irony that I felt and was also felt by the older residents of Bhaun. That is why Riaz Mohammad Khokhar told me that he remembered the day all the Hindus and Sikhs were escorted to the train station with the assumption that things would blow over in a few weeks or months. And yet, it was after 58 years that a Hindu had come back to what was a Hindu majority village for many years, that too after getting a visa in America.

Vivek:

My trip to Ketas and Bhaun was very much in the country side. I have written about the infrastructure in Punjab which is high quality. Due to a complexity of reason however, their agricultural output is lower per hectare compared to India.

The highways and roads were of excellent quality. Did not see too many tubewells but I saw a lot of canals. Purdah etc is not very obvious in the countryside. In fact prolly more so in Lahore compared to Bhaun.

veeresh: and where did you learn about this latest veereshism that americans made the motorways?? cooked it up in the delusional world you people live in???

veeresh: and did you stick your neck into those trucks engines and see made in india written on them?? like i said. you have to be the most brazen liar i have seen on chowk.

Stuka:

A good read. As vivek (320) has suggested a comparison of the real progress can only be made when you visit the countryside. The agricultural & manufacturing base is pathetic and abysmal. The kalloo-goraas look themselves in the mirror and conclude that Michel Jackson like they are increasingly looking `wheatish`.

Now that is the `fair & lovely` wheat production in Pakistan.

I am happy to note that you were able to voice your your disdain for the ones who wanted to show you how `modern` they are by giving you a tour of the US Halvaee & Kababia dukaans. Instead of their being embarrassed & ashamed of it, they thought that it was some kind of an achievement.

They would sell themselves as slaves and that too for a song
``But why the Big-Saab ain`t buying us, what`s takin` `im so long``

Nothing would please them than to see Pakistan become another US state or colonial-outpost. A quick trip to their fantasy `progress` is achieved by liquor, Bhang, Charas, Haraamkaree & westoxication.

A visit to the Shalimar Gardens & Jehangirs tomb and its vicinity would have given you the propper glimpse of the ``value`` system of thes farangi-famished wannabees. These places are proudly neglected because the `foreigners` are discouraged.

If it was not for the Gurdwara & Badshahi Masjid [ living heritage] the lowlifes in Pakistan would only show the the Cantonementised & colonised Lahore.

You see they have put their ancestors into group homes because it is embarrassing for them to introduce them to their equally ``maadern`` & `` progressed`` friends.

---

Urstruly:

This was pre-partition.

When Majaz returned to Lucknow after a short visit to Lahore he was asked if he liked the place.

and Majaz in his classic style replied:

`` Yaar shehr toa thheek hee hai, mgar vahaaN Panjabi bohut ziadaa haiN.``
(The city is OK, but too many Panjabis there!) :)

Satyamvada:

HAHA, dude, you are an idiot. Why don`t you check the meaning of the word travelogue? I did not go to Pakistan to observe the legal system. This is just an impression of four days of travel. You are welcome to go to Pakistan and study the legal system yourself or shut the fukk up about the desires of Punjabis to visit their places of heritage.

Regards.

anyway: carry on stuka. didnt mean to interrupt your article with these asides to messrs veeresh/satyamvada.

echoboom: nothing wrong with appreciating shalimar gardens AND dunkin donuts. and YLH`s warm reception to chowkie visitors to Lahore is in the finest traditions in any human society. so dont knock it.

I liked it very much.

The description is rapid paced, but not breathless (#12). The visitor is friendly and fair. Lahore seems to be an attractive place with a healthy mix of modernity and tradition.

Parag, you rich Punjabis now own Delhi. Next time, snag some Lahori cousins, so we can make the city inhabitable again.

---

Some points of disagreement:

1. Lahore has a strong provincial feel. For greater generalizability to Pakistan, I would look to Karachi.

2. Ketas was not a minor temple or mosque - it was a major religious center for Hindus, of topmost importance to very many people.

3. Other than those on Chowk, most men are undeserving of most women. But yes, in case of Pakistan, this divide appears to be exceptionally sharp :)

Veersh:

. . . when you compare Lahore to Singapore, I think you are having us all on.


Come on. You know that hyperbole is acceptable sometimes. Isn`t that the case when a Bambaiyya compares his city to New York?

Bbesides, as I made clear, I was comparing one specific aspect of Lahore (its infrastructure in one or two specific places) to equivilants in first world countries. It is like saying that the Delhi metro can be compared to the one in DC. As it actually can be. Does not mean the two cities are comparable as a whole.

I find more interesting your interpretation of Lahore`s ``continuity`` as decadance. That actually is a conversation we could expnad more on. I see a glimmer of truth in what you say but have a different interpretation. At worst, we can agree to disagree. I would however recommend a trip to the Potohar area. Bhaun itself may not be of much interest to you, but Ketas as well as Kalar Kahar should be fun.

stuka/27:- you say:- ````That is why Riaz Mohammad Khokhar told me that he remembered the day all the Hindus and Sikhs were escorted to the train station with the assumption that things would blow over in a few weeks or months.````

+++

I have always wondered about this. Whether it was Riaz Mohammad Khokar or Ravinder Singh Khokar or Ram Ditta Khokhar or maybe even Ronald D`Lima Khokhar, and all their respective Missus and chillun.

Every departing Hindu / Sikh / Muslim who survived on either side of the border would remember ONLY the terrible and violent blood-letting, murder, rape, mayhem. All you would get are tales of gore and valour displayed to escape hordes and women commiting suicide to save honour and looting and blood-curling yells of Allahoo-Akbar and HarHar Mahadev and Bole So Nihal.

On the other hand.

Every Hindu / Sikh / Muslim who saw them off would remember only escorting them gently to the nearest Railway Station in paalkees and bidding them adieu with gentle tunes in the background, minstrels playing violins, reciting gentle ayyats or shlokas or dohas, you get it?

+++

So what was it in 1947, were there two different worlds existing in the same place / time?

Kaalchakra:

1. Lahore has a strong provincial feel. For greater generalizability to Pakistan, I would look to Karachi.

Agreed. Lahore is a Punjabi city, akin to Delhi in th 70s and 80s.

2. Ketas was not a minor temple or mosque - it was a major religious center for Hindus, of topmost importance to very many people.

Agreed. This is what I wrote:

``This town has quite a few temples ranging from the 6th to the 10th century in antiquity, dedicated largely to the Hindu god Shiva. I had been told that the temple town was also important because the Pandavas had stayed there during their exile. Apparently Ketas was a major pilgrimage town before partition but have obviously been reduced in importance since then. ``


3. Other than those on Chowk, most men are undeserving of most women. But yes, in case of Pakistan, this divide appears to be exceptionally sharp :)

Yeah, and amongst Sikhs too. :)

Stuka Vohra,

Why are you all getting so upset ?

Dont say you are going to see your heritage. There is nothing left in pakiland,
It would be more honest of you to say that went to Pakiland to see the destroyed
pieces of your heritage lying around.

Just because your observation skills are limited doesnt mean you should get
offended.

Naipaul does travelogues too :) ,
Maybe you should read Naipaul and learn a little bit.
It would do you a world of good.

``Every departing Hindu / Sikh / Muslim who survived on either side of the border would remember ONLY the terrible and violent blood-letting, murder, rape, mayhem. All you would get are tales of gore and valour displayed to escape hordes and women commiting suicide to save honour and looting and blood-curling yells of Allahoo-Akbar and HarHar Mahadev and Bole So Nihal.
``

That is not the case at all. I have heard plenty of stories of humanity and people saving members of other religions. Any amount of partition literature will give you that.

Stuka
Wonderful travelogue. Did anyone in Bhaun talk about its most illustrious son, M.S.Oberoi?

``Huqoomatan badal dee aan, awam kaddi nahi badli; lekin pehli waar awaam tak badal gayee”

Strange coincidence. My mother said exactly the same thing when leaving our house in Lyalpur. She had said, ``Raje badalde aaye nain, parja kadi naeen badli``.

charlie#19

Good post.

``Then, I just don`t get it how people can become enemies, murderers and killers of their neighbours with whom they had spent so many years, shared so many happinesses and sorrows.``

...as they say in America, ``It`s the religion stupid!``.

Urstruly#17:

`` The truth of the matter is that Lahore was the first city in united Punjab that transitioned from ``Lamp posts`` to ``Street Lights`` sometimes in 30s and remained so for quite sometime.``

Not true. ``My`` Lyalpur got street lights at the same time.

Not related to the travelogue, but I do hope that the Shalimar Gardens and Jehangir`s tomb are not neglected (I have difficulty believing they would be, since these are among Pakistan`s most valuable treasures).

Stuka,

Terrific article!! I really enjoyed it. It is great to see Punjabis on both sides finally burying the demons of partition and lettting bygones be bygones. Ignore veeresh and satyamvada. Those guys just want to sulk about the past. The rest of us want to move on and patch up.

Satyamvada:

Yes, Naipaul does travelogues too. Remember the stir he caused in India when he wrote about his first trip? He wasn`t too popular with many Indians then. Its only after he started trashing Muslims that Hindus started discovering the positive aspects of Naipaul. I think he is a mean spirited and small hearted ugly man, which shows in his non fiction works.

Stuka - now I know how to get you. Show some panjabi girls and you will sell your relatives....
abey Ketas Temple is an ancient temple. Assholes like you shouldnt be allowed to write travelogues. That this temple is in a dilapidated state should have sent SHIVERS UP AND DOWN YOUR SUPINE SPINE manytime overs.


God what a one sided story.....and you INSUL:T US ALL WITH THIS Apparently Ketas was a major pilgrimage town before partition but have obviously been reduced in importance since then. ``

YES STUKA YOU HAVE INSULTED US ALL WITH THAT THROW AWAY PHRASE ....... May the gods have mercy on a creep like you. And I hope you had enuf pakistanis girls top keep you warm in the nights when you went there.....