Pakistan Travelogue II

Re: # 701

You continue to lie. I didn`t claim Wolpert was a credible historian.... I described him as a self avowed Gandhi admirer.... Please do go above... I haven`t quoted him since 2001.

The fact of the matter is that Patel`s letter proves Congress`s culpability in the massacre of Muslims... a deliberate and machiavellian plot to taint the peaceful direct action day by the Muslim League with violence.

You still haven`t answered the questions.... it is simply an indication of your inability to read history objectively.

#700 by Mantolives

Still no statement from Jinnah? It is now clear as daylight that Jinnah deliberately remained silent to enable his Muslim goons from wreaking havoc on the Hindus of Calcutta.

The extract I provided from Wolpert`s book as evidence is incontrovertible, since it comes from a man who you claimed was a credible historian. Let`s see if you can come up with something that betters this.

Prolific and nonsensical posting alone cannot exonerate Jinnah. There has to be some substance to back it up. I see you are becoming desperate to prove that the thug Jinnah was innocent, but there has to stronger evidence than the token lip service to communal harmony in the form of the statement by Jinnah where he ``denounced`` the fratricidal violence.

Re: # 699

PS: Just so that we are clear on this... I haven`t quoted Wolpert since 2001.... nor have I described him as a credible historian... since 2001... what is strange is that you keep lying that I quote Wolpert... I do think he wrote some very readable books on Jinnah, Gandhi, Nehru, Gokhale and Tilak....

Please do check above to see what I wrote about him.

Re: # 697

Blah blah blah...

We still have Patel admitting to Congress` masterstroke of how they tainted Muslim League`s direct action day with violence and killed more Muslims.

Good to see that now that you`ve found something to your liking that former biased Jinnah admirer Pakistani-agent Wolpert has become a ``Credible historian``...

But what about H M Seervai and Sumit Sarkar... both Indians? Are they still Jinnah admirers?

You still haven`t explained why this didn`t get violent any where else? especially in Delhi and Lahore where Muslim League could have created some real trouble and put the blame on the government?

Re: # 696

Don`t whine... please. You haven`t been able to prove anything.

#694 by Mantolives

[The Muslim League called for a mass civil disobedience movement (as proved by the 14th August statement).. that was peaceful all over India, except in Calcutta where Congress went crazy...]

Sure. If after I provided evidence from a credible historian (your words, not mine), you still believe the Congress started the violence, you are beyond reformation.

[Now tell me are you saying Muslim League didn`t have the right to indulge in a civil disobedience movement?]

Man, I come from a democratic country, and I am all for rights for every Tom, Dick, and Harry to indulge in whatever as long as it does not harm others. But the League was openly issuing threats of violence and bloodshed. One Leaguer went to the extent of boasting that the violence they would unleash would put Hulaku Khan and Genghis Khan to shame. Another declared that Muslims were no believers in Ahimsa, yet another said Muslims would not hesitate to shed their blood, and if the opportunity arose, others blood. You call this civil disobedience? Yeah righto!!

Man, you really have a skewed understanding of democratic means of protests, just as your hero and his party had. If the supposedly educated Pakis think this is democracy, it no wonder that democracy is struggling to find roots in Pakistan.

#693 by Mantolives

[Now you are changing the question again.... but I wonder why Jinnah would ask the Victims to stop violence.... ]

So you accept the fact that Jinnah did nothing in the week or so that violence raged for. Thanks for admitting. Your favorite historian Wolpert himself has said that the violence was unleashed by Muslim goons, and the Hindus only counterattacked. I have provided verifiable evidence in the form of the link to his book. What evidence have you provided?

[As Sardar Patel`s letter proved.... Hindus were at it like crazy homocidal maniacs...]

The call for Direct Action was issued by Jinnah, his cohorts were baying for Hindu blood, Muslim goons unleashed a brutal wave of violence on Hindus, and you wonder why Jinnah would ask the “victims” to stop? No wonder your career is going nowhere.

[Shame on you for not acceping the truth.]

Coming from you, this is really rich. The truth as believed by a delusional Paki? I’m proud to be ashamed.

Re: # 689

Jinnah fought for equality and fairplay.... whether it was as a secular Indian nationalist (1906-1940) or as a Muslim ``communalist`` (1940-1947) or as a founder of the nation (1947-1948)...

He was not in it for the brownie points... he was incorruptible.

Re: # 691

The Muslim League called for a mass civil disobedience movement (as proved by the 14th August statement).. that was peaceful all over India, except in Calcutta where Congress went crazy...

Now tell me are you saying Muslim League didn`t have the right to indulge in a civil disobedience movement?

Re: # 692

Now you are changing the question again.... but I wonder why Jinnah would ask the Victims to stop violence....

As Sardar Patel`s letter proved.... Hindus were at it like crazy homocidal maniacs...

Shame on you for not acceping the truth.

#683 by Mantolives

[``The Muslim League denounces the fratricidal war that has broken out in Calcutta``]

Now please tell us where in this statement does Jinnah instruct Muslims to stop indulging in violence.

#680 by Mantolives

[I am still not sure why Mr Gurumoorthy is asking for Jinnah`s statement.... when the violence was caused by the Congress thugs....]

As a lawyer, you should know this better. I`m just trying to establish Jinnah`s motives in calling for Direct Action. Speaker after speaker was issuing threatening calls to violence and blooshed, and what did Jinnah do? He silently watched the mayhem being unleashed by Muslim goons. And please don`t ever say again that the COngress started the violence, when it has amply been proved by the extract I provided from Wolpert`s book. Now accorsing to an earlier post of yours, you said Margaret Bourke White was just a photo journalist and had no credibility as a historian. I`m sure you`d agree with me that Wolpert is a credible historian because you yourself said so. If you wish, I will search for the post where you said so.

[the question is what did Gandhi, Nehru and Patel do... except gloat over More Muslims dying in Calcutta]

What could the Congress do except gloat? The Direct Action was called for by the League, so it was ironic that more Muslims got killed. Yes, the COngress must have gloated over the stupidity of the Muslim League which called for shedding Hindu blood, yet ended up shedding more of its own blood.

#679 by Mantolives

[Since you gentlemen insist on repeating the same questions which have been answered... I must respond with the same answers...]

So please tell us where have you answered my question. I don`t think you have answered the question as to what Jinnah did to stop the violence.

re:#678 by Mantolives
The only virtue i see in Jinnah (which he held on till the end) was that he was beyond corruption. He gave up his ideals of secularism when he founded a nation based on religion. He gave up his nationalistic ideals when he started dreaming of Pakistan.
If Jinnah fought for peace, the world has not noticed it.
Sridhar

The BCCI(indian cricket board) is going to operate a 24x7 cricket cable channel, kalam is going to host the enemy musharaf at the president`s palace this sunday, dance bars in Mumbai city limits have also been shut, manmohan flags off another train somewhere in jammu...all this is unnerving to me.What next, sleeping with the enemy??.Life is full of surprises.

Re: # 635

``We got Pakistan... cry and whine all you want now... we have Pakistan and thank God for it``

No one is crying and whining about the creation of Pakistan. We are happy not to have an additional 250+ million muslims. What amazes me is your hatred for Gandhi and praises for Jinnah. I am no fan of Gandhi, but he has come out as a model figure for the entire world. His principles and methods are tried world over. All your venom against him is not going to negate it. Gandhi in india/abroad represents secularism and non-violence. He is the role model for all the ``secular`` parties in india. His principles have become the protector of the minorities. About Jinnah, is he even relevant in pak today. Where were his principles/legacy when pakis started fighting against each other. where is his ``dream Pakistan``?