Pakistan Travelogue II
Parag Vohra April 5, 2005
#96 Posted by cayenne on April 5, 2005 12:31:19 pm
As the speaker ranted on people sat in the sun and gossiped, bought tea and scratched themselves while the rest of Lahore city carried on unmoved and intent on...........
So, Lahore has THREE dunkin Donuts, the public scratches themselves at all public functions.And , Lahore has mansions in defence colony.Wow!!.Jaw dropping mansions,that too.Sad commentary.
So, Lahore has THREE dunkin Donuts, the public scratches themselves at all public functions.And , Lahore has mansions in defence colony.Wow!!.Jaw dropping mansions,that too.Sad commentary.
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#97 Posted by kardesh on April 5, 2005 12:38:18 pm
Veeresh #92, {``I am reliably informed by gesticulating yodellers and yellers singing ``od leree od leree od leree youuuooooooo, od leree od leree ooooooooooooh . . .`` that Singapore is almost like another famous Punjabi provincial town but without too many Punjabans.``}
Thank you for the invitation, but I have been to Singapore a long time ago. I have heard that they were beating people for using profane language (Scout would have been outa luck there! :) ) and even giving people forced haircuts. Anyway, don`t remember much about the place except the huge number of well-dressed Indians, something that you have to leave India to witness.
So, have you figured out what the gesticualting yodeller was yelling about? I am just curious. BTW, you do yodel quite well. Did you pick that up in Simla? There is a strange Punjabi accshunt in your yodel. Now, a famous provincial town without obese Punjabans is enticing. It`s like enjoying Japan without having to eat raw fish. :)
Thank you for the invitation, but I have been to Singapore a long time ago. I have heard that they were beating people for using profane language (Scout would have been outa luck there! :) ) and even giving people forced haircuts. Anyway, don`t remember much about the place except the huge number of well-dressed Indians, something that you have to leave India to witness.
So, have you figured out what the gesticualting yodeller was yelling about? I am just curious. BTW, you do yodel quite well. Did you pick that up in Simla? There is a strange Punjabi accshunt in your yodel. Now, a famous provincial town without obese Punjabans is enticing. It`s like enjoying Japan without having to eat raw fish. :)
#98 Posted by kardesh on April 5, 2005 12:59:25 pm
Re: # 96
Cayenne,
Now there you go again, quoting the context out of me. :)
I said that I was informed that Karachi has not one but three Dunkin Donuts. You implied that Stuka said that Lahore has THREE DDs. Just like Veeresh found Manto yodelling, you are seeing things in triplicate. This is the fourth sign of going crazy - are you foaming at the mouth yet?
Crowds scratching themselves during public gatherings is a sign of respect, expectation, and maturity. This is often done by US ballplayers just before they step into the batters box or preceding an important play at 1st base. Don`t tell me that Indians don`t scratch, but then you could be right. You have to have sometrhing to scratch before you can start scratching.
Jaw dropping mansions is a stuka euphamism about private baths. Yes, homes in Lahore and most of Pakistan have bathrooms INSIDE the house. Don`t feel alarmed, that is a common gesticulation by visiting Indians.
Cayenne,
Now there you go again, quoting the context out of me. :)
I said that I was informed that Karachi has not one but three Dunkin Donuts. You implied that Stuka said that Lahore has THREE DDs. Just like Veeresh found Manto yodelling, you are seeing things in triplicate. This is the fourth sign of going crazy - are you foaming at the mouth yet?
Crowds scratching themselves during public gatherings is a sign of respect, expectation, and maturity. This is often done by US ballplayers just before they step into the batters box or preceding an important play at 1st base. Don`t tell me that Indians don`t scratch, but then you could be right. You have to have sometrhing to scratch before you can start scratching.
Jaw dropping mansions is a stuka euphamism about private baths. Yes, homes in Lahore and most of Pakistan have bathrooms INSIDE the house. Don`t feel alarmed, that is a common gesticulation by visiting Indians.
#99 Posted by delhiwala on April 5, 2005 1:00:53 pm
Re: # 86
Kardesh: I try to be as sincere as possible in History research.
My understanding of the events mentioned is as follows:
Basicaly, Hodgson`s Horse was raised was by Captain, later Col Hodgson from Ludhiana Sikhs(they are different from Ranjit Singh`s army but they were Sikhs). It is true that when Hodgson grabbed the sons of Bahadur Shah Zafar, Sikhs were the Guards right from Darya Ganj upto Nizamuddin and then to Humayun`s Maqbara and back to Khooni Darwaza(I had watched the cricket match at Ferozshah from this Gate).
This is where Hodgson went berserk and after stripping naked the Nawabs had them shot and cut their heads personally. Then incited the Sikhs by reminding them of the Guru Teg Bahadur`s beheading ordered by Aurengzeb. Sikhs on the way back to Delhi killed Muslims and then took the heads(after they have been presented to the Zafar) to the old Kotwali and hung it there(present day Gurudwara Sheesh Ganj Sahib).
Displaying the heads was in response to how Mughals displayed the head of the Sikh Guru in the city on a pole.
Yes, it is true that Sikhs most likely committed atrocities on the residents of my beloved Delhi at that time. But it is only after they have been brutally pillaged and humiliated for the previous 300 years. Most famous one being ``Guru Teg Bahadur`s beheading`` in Delhi and not to mention 10,000 Sikhs killed in Mehrauli over 2 months, preceding Banda Bahadur`s torture.
I can also remember a story being told that Same Hodgson`s horse saved many a lives of Muslim woman who were meant to be shot by Poorbia Army in 1857. There used to be a famous Kotha(where now Lajpat Rai Market stands), this was the high end Tawaif`s abode.
A woman by the name of Chand Bibi(I could be wrong), was the most patriot and she took the Sword herself and decided to fight the English when caught she was saved by the Sikhs and let go.
Sikhs and Muslim enemity started at the time of Jahangir, when he ordered the 5th Sikh Guru Arjan Dev to be tortured and killed at the site where Gurudwara Dera Sahib is in Lahore. Jahangir ordered his Governor to close this shop of infidels(Dukan-E-Kafir) by any means, as many Hindus and Muslims were becoming Sikhs under the Guru`s influence(you can read this in TurkeNama-Jahangiri(not sure how to spell it), this book is in V&A museum. translations are available in Delhi.
Then 9th Sikh Guru, Father of Guru Gobind Singh, who was also a very close friend of Dara Shikoh, was beheaded in Delhi for simply refusing to become Muslim.
Afterwards, it was clear in the Sikh`s mind that Mugaliya Saltanat only knows the language of War. Tenth Sikh Guru faught many battles with Sikhs and as many of you know his 2 small children were bricked alive in Sarhand on the orders of the Nawab.
Hence Banda Bahadur breaking every brick of this town later on. At that time a Sikh`s head could fetch 20 Rs and a Sikh male child 10 Rs, and all this was happening in Punjab.
As you can see, each and every story that you have in Pakistani society about the Sikhs is always as a reply to something done to Sikhs prior. Please don`t get me wrong. This is my understanding of the Sikh history after I have cross checked with Sikh, Hindu and English accounts. If anybody disagrees with me then please provide facts otherwise.
Now that Sikhs have totally been eliminated from Pakistan. Pakistani media can portray Sikhs any way they like without any hindrance.
Kardesh: I try to be as sincere as possible in History research.
My understanding of the events mentioned is as follows:
Basicaly, Hodgson`s Horse was raised was by Captain, later Col Hodgson from Ludhiana Sikhs(they are different from Ranjit Singh`s army but they were Sikhs). It is true that when Hodgson grabbed the sons of Bahadur Shah Zafar, Sikhs were the Guards right from Darya Ganj upto Nizamuddin and then to Humayun`s Maqbara and back to Khooni Darwaza(I had watched the cricket match at Ferozshah from this Gate).
This is where Hodgson went berserk and after stripping naked the Nawabs had them shot and cut their heads personally. Then incited the Sikhs by reminding them of the Guru Teg Bahadur`s beheading ordered by Aurengzeb. Sikhs on the way back to Delhi killed Muslims and then took the heads(after they have been presented to the Zafar) to the old Kotwali and hung it there(present day Gurudwara Sheesh Ganj Sahib).
Displaying the heads was in response to how Mughals displayed the head of the Sikh Guru in the city on a pole.
Yes, it is true that Sikhs most likely committed atrocities on the residents of my beloved Delhi at that time. But it is only after they have been brutally pillaged and humiliated for the previous 300 years. Most famous one being ``Guru Teg Bahadur`s beheading`` in Delhi and not to mention 10,000 Sikhs killed in Mehrauli over 2 months, preceding Banda Bahadur`s torture.
I can also remember a story being told that Same Hodgson`s horse saved many a lives of Muslim woman who were meant to be shot by Poorbia Army in 1857. There used to be a famous Kotha(where now Lajpat Rai Market stands), this was the high end Tawaif`s abode.
A woman by the name of Chand Bibi(I could be wrong), was the most patriot and she took the Sword herself and decided to fight the English when caught she was saved by the Sikhs and let go.
Sikhs and Muslim enemity started at the time of Jahangir, when he ordered the 5th Sikh Guru Arjan Dev to be tortured and killed at the site where Gurudwara Dera Sahib is in Lahore. Jahangir ordered his Governor to close this shop of infidels(Dukan-E-Kafir) by any means, as many Hindus and Muslims were becoming Sikhs under the Guru`s influence(you can read this in TurkeNama-Jahangiri(not sure how to spell it), this book is in V&A museum. translations are available in Delhi.
Then 9th Sikh Guru, Father of Guru Gobind Singh, who was also a very close friend of Dara Shikoh, was beheaded in Delhi for simply refusing to become Muslim.
Afterwards, it was clear in the Sikh`s mind that Mugaliya Saltanat only knows the language of War. Tenth Sikh Guru faught many battles with Sikhs and as many of you know his 2 small children were bricked alive in Sarhand on the orders of the Nawab.
Hence Banda Bahadur breaking every brick of this town later on. At that time a Sikh`s head could fetch 20 Rs and a Sikh male child 10 Rs, and all this was happening in Punjab.
As you can see, each and every story that you have in Pakistani society about the Sikhs is always as a reply to something done to Sikhs prior. Please don`t get me wrong. This is my understanding of the Sikh history after I have cross checked with Sikh, Hindu and English accounts. If anybody disagrees with me then please provide facts otherwise.
Now that Sikhs have totally been eliminated from Pakistan. Pakistani media can portray Sikhs any way they like without any hindrance.
#100 Posted by kardesh on April 5, 2005 1:11:52 pm
Cayenne #96, {``So, Lahore has THREE dunkin Donuts``}
Cayenne,
Actually it`s Karachi that has the three DDs - but that reminds me of a Sardarji from Ludhiana, named Kaura Singh Dunkindonutwalla. This wealthy Sikh went to Lahore and really enjoyed the coffee in the Dunkin Donut that Manto, the omnipresent Paki host, took him to. Upon his return, Kaura Singh Dunkindonutwalla opened three Dunkin Donuts in his large estate. A friend from Patiala came to visit Kaura and remarked to Kaura that he was very impressed by the lavish estate, but what`s with the three Dunkin Donuts all located right next to each other on the same estate? Kaura replied, ``Brewa Singh, my friend, if you noticed the first DD had plenty of regular coffee. Some mornings I really like to drink many many cups one after the other.`` His friend said: ``Yes, I undestand that, but what about the other two?`` ``Well,`` replied Kaura ``Some mornings, I am too hyper and I love coffee so, I just drink Decaf. The second DD has only decafe in it.`` ``That makes sense,`` replied his friend, ``but what about the third Dunkin Donut? What is that one for?`` ``If you look in there you will notice that the third Dunkin Donut is empty, no coffee in it.`` The friend said: ``Yes, I did. I saw that there was nothing there and I was going to ask you about it.`` Kaura replied, ``You know, sometimes I have such a bad hangover that I don`t feel like drinking coffee at all.``
Cayenne,
Actually it`s Karachi that has the three DDs - but that reminds me of a Sardarji from Ludhiana, named Kaura Singh Dunkindonutwalla. This wealthy Sikh went to Lahore and really enjoyed the coffee in the Dunkin Donut that Manto, the omnipresent Paki host, took him to. Upon his return, Kaura Singh Dunkindonutwalla opened three Dunkin Donuts in his large estate. A friend from Patiala came to visit Kaura and remarked to Kaura that he was very impressed by the lavish estate, but what`s with the three Dunkin Donuts all located right next to each other on the same estate? Kaura replied, ``Brewa Singh, my friend, if you noticed the first DD had plenty of regular coffee. Some mornings I really like to drink many many cups one after the other.`` His friend said: ``Yes, I undestand that, but what about the other two?`` ``Well,`` replied Kaura ``Some mornings, I am too hyper and I love coffee so, I just drink Decaf. The second DD has only decafe in it.`` ``That makes sense,`` replied his friend, ``but what about the third Dunkin Donut? What is that one for?`` ``If you look in there you will notice that the third Dunkin Donut is empty, no coffee in it.`` The friend said: ``Yes, I did. I saw that there was nothing there and I was going to ask you about it.`` Kaura replied, ``You know, sometimes I have such a bad hangover that I don`t feel like drinking coffee at all.``
#101 Posted by amit on April 5, 2005 1:12:46 pm
Kardesh#various
Salim, yaar, you are spending way too much time on chowk writing about everything from DC, Dunkin Donuts, whorehouses, switzerland, India. Every third post is from you!! You should spend this time looking for your Anarkali :-), instead of fighting with a bunch of bigoted Indians, who cant stand anyone having a good time in Lahore.
Salim, yaar, you are spending way too much time on chowk writing about everything from DC, Dunkin Donuts, whorehouses, switzerland, India. Every third post is from you!! You should spend this time looking for your Anarkali :-), instead of fighting with a bunch of bigoted Indians, who cant stand anyone having a good time in Lahore.
#102 Posted by MantoLives on April 5, 2005 1:13:54 pm
Re: # 82
Dear veeresh I know you are a pathetic liar...
But let me clarify a few things once more...
1) I have repeatedly pointed out that Stuka was living in a very poor neighborhood, deliberately because we put him there to learn about all sides of Pakistan.`
2) I would be a Gandhian .... if I was living off some rich industrialist`s earnings... or when millions would be required to keep me in poverty.
Dear veeresh I know you are a pathetic liar...
But let me clarify a few things once more...
1) I have repeatedly pointed out that Stuka was living in a very poor neighborhood, deliberately because we put him there to learn about all sides of Pakistan.`
2) I would be a Gandhian .... if I was living off some rich industrialist`s earnings... or when millions would be required to keep me in poverty.
#103 Posted by stuka on April 5, 2005 1:17:34 pm
Yaar, I wonder why Laxmi Chowk is still called Laxmi Chowk and Sir Ganga Ram is still called the same and I also visited Dyal Singh College? Wonder why ONLY Bhagwanpura was changed to Baghban Pura though it was settled by Gardners at the time of building Shalimar Gardens? Really strange these Lahoris are...
#104 Posted by MantoLives on April 5, 2005 1:18:12 pm
Re: # 72
About Danesh Kaneria...
.... He does not call himself or write his name ``Danish``...
It is ``Danesh``... with an esh... now please compare the phonetics .... Karachi, Darbar, Kardesh, Danesh... You see what I am saying? If your pathetic little bigoted theory were true... Kaneria/Kineria would not be running around with a red line on his forehead in Karachi.
I personally know several Pakistani Hindus and Sikhs who haven`t altered their names one bit.
About Danesh Kaneria...
.... He does not call himself or write his name ``Danish``...
It is ``Danesh``... with an esh... now please compare the phonetics .... Karachi, Darbar, Kardesh, Danesh... You see what I am saying? If your pathetic little bigoted theory were true... Kaneria/Kineria would not be running around with a red line on his forehead in Karachi.
I personally know several Pakistani Hindus and Sikhs who haven`t altered their names one bit.
#105 Posted by kardesh on April 5, 2005 1:20:28 pm
Re: # 99
Dillidost,
I too have read many accounts of Mughal cruelty to Sikhs, but why should that be considered a religious issue? Mughals killed Siksh, but they also killed Shias and many Sunnis for not obeying the rule of Agra or Delhi. Mughals did away with the Shia kingdoms of Bijapur, Golconda, and Ahmadnagar. Mughals were always fighting Iranis over Zahidan and Pathan tribesman in NWSP then known as Sarhad, or Mahrattas in Deccan. The Mughal army was mostly Rajput and had Pathans and others in it - including many Iranians and Turks.
If Mughals were cruel to Sikhs during the reigns of Jahangir (16th/17th century) and Aurangzeb (17th/18th century), why take revenge on the helpless civilians of Delhi in the 19th century? Why chop off the heads of young boys and men in Delhi after they had already surrendered?
Just sad that we take revenge on today`s weak for the offenses of their strong ancestors hundreds of years ago. It is sad.
Dillidost,
I too have read many accounts of Mughal cruelty to Sikhs, but why should that be considered a religious issue? Mughals killed Siksh, but they also killed Shias and many Sunnis for not obeying the rule of Agra or Delhi. Mughals did away with the Shia kingdoms of Bijapur, Golconda, and Ahmadnagar. Mughals were always fighting Iranis over Zahidan and Pathan tribesman in NWSP then known as Sarhad, or Mahrattas in Deccan. The Mughal army was mostly Rajput and had Pathans and others in it - including many Iranians and Turks.
If Mughals were cruel to Sikhs during the reigns of Jahangir (16th/17th century) and Aurangzeb (17th/18th century), why take revenge on the helpless civilians of Delhi in the 19th century? Why chop off the heads of young boys and men in Delhi after they had already surrendered?
Just sad that we take revenge on today`s weak for the offenses of their strong ancestors hundreds of years ago. It is sad.
#106 Posted by MantoLives on April 5, 2005 1:21:03 pm
Re: # 90
Maybe you call Krishan Nagar Islampura... in popular parlance it remains Krishan Nagar...
Good luck taking a bus to Islampura...
Maybe you call Krishan Nagar Islampura... in popular parlance it remains Krishan Nagar...
Good luck taking a bus to Islampura...
#107 Posted by MantoLives on April 5, 2005 1:22:15 pm
Re: # 103
Thats because we knew what would tick MaheshG off!
Thats because we knew what would tick MaheshG off!
#108 Posted by stuka on April 5, 2005 1:22:30 pm
Sambar Vada Moronic Idiot:
``Bollywood for you - Hema- Amitabh’s Baghban launch
... Explaining the meaning of the unconventional title director Ravi Chopra
said, ``Baghbaan means gardener. A gardener nurtures a plant hoping that one day ...
www.b4utv.com/movies/newsbreak/0730hema.html ``
See for yourself. You are a retard...a sambhar vadda selling one at that....
Oh wait, maybe Amitabh and Hema Malini are Lahori Mulahs who got the name of their film changed from Bhagwan to Baghbaan due to Two Nation Theory. BWAHAHAHA!!!
``Bollywood for you - Hema- Amitabh’s Baghban launch
... Explaining the meaning of the unconventional title director Ravi Chopra
said, ``Baghbaan means gardener. A gardener nurtures a plant hoping that one day ...
www.b4utv.com/movies/newsbreak/0730hema.html ``
See for yourself. You are a retard...a sambhar vadda selling one at that....
Oh wait, maybe Amitabh and Hema Malini are Lahori Mulahs who got the name of their film changed from Bhagwan to Baghbaan due to Two Nation Theory. BWAHAHAHA!!!
#109 Posted by kardesh on April 5, 2005 1:22:59 pm
Re: # 101
amit,
you are right. I am overdoing it. I went on to other subjects to alter the mood slightly. I will stop. Thanks for the advice.
amit,
you are right. I am overdoing it. I went on to other subjects to alter the mood slightly. I will stop. Thanks for the advice.
#110 Posted by amit on April 5, 2005 1:23:55 pm
Manto,
On behalf of all Indians who want good relations with Pakistan, let me thank you for extending your hospitality and courtesy to an Indian visitor. Looks like you took a lot of pains to make his stay comfortable and memorable. Most people do not do so much for a stranger. Please keep it up and ignore the hatemongers on this board. They are not representative of how Indians feel towards Pakistanis.
On behalf of all Indians who want good relations with Pakistan, let me thank you for extending your hospitality and courtesy to an Indian visitor. Looks like you took a lot of pains to make his stay comfortable and memorable. Most people do not do so much for a stranger. Please keep it up and ignore the hatemongers on this board. They are not representative of how Indians feel towards Pakistanis.
#111 Posted by cayenne on April 5, 2005 1:25:18 pm
#98 by kardesh on April 5, 2005 12:59pm PT
Re: # 96
Cayenne,
OKAY.ONE Dunkin Donut.It`s 145 am wednesday where i am so excuse me.The joke went by me #100.I will comment tomorrow.Is lahore as beautiful as my city is at night?.Is lahore as beautiful as bangalore?.Click on these links , mon frere.Chuss.
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=178648
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=128430
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=165204
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=164281
Re: # 96
Cayenne,
OKAY.ONE Dunkin Donut.It`s 145 am wednesday where i am so excuse me.The joke went by me #100.I will comment tomorrow.Is lahore as beautiful as my city is at night?.Is lahore as beautiful as bangalore?.Click on these links , mon frere.Chuss.
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=178648
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=128430
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=165204
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=164281
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