Corina Carrumba April 7, 2005
#1 Posted by rozaiba on April 7, 2005 2:25:00 am
“I know it’s a lot easier for me because I have the option of being dependent and I have some degree of protection and power that class buys you. What about those who don’t? What can we do?”
Yes, it is hell. Especially for those who do not have the appropriate links with the patriarchal structure. And as per Dr. Shazia’s statement, ‘There is no law and order in Pakistan!’ When the rulers show no regard for the constitution, no one should expect anyone else to do so.
Yes, it is hell. Especially for those who do not have the appropriate links with the patriarchal structure. And as per Dr. Shazia’s statement, ‘There is no law and order in Pakistan!’ When the rulers show no regard for the constitution, no one should expect anyone else to do so.
#2 Posted by labyrinth1 on April 7, 2005 3:13:12 am
Corina Carrumba I agree with you but you have to acknowledge its not a perfect world and sexual harassment is present in every society and in every part of the world . Thank God , that you are living in the most liberal and broad minded city in Pakistan , God knows what would happen if you would be living in Gujarwala or Quetta etc..
Carrumba anyhow let me assure you full coperation from a political party which has always campaigned for the rights of women in Pakistan and a party which is Karachi`s Party - MQM .
please email me the details and names of peoples with a contact number ,
akchishti@hotmail.com
Carrumba anyhow let me assure you full coperation from a political party which has always campaigned for the rights of women in Pakistan and a party which is Karachi`s Party - MQM .
please email me the details and names of peoples with a contact number ,
akchishti@hotmail.com
#3 Posted by MeAyesha on April 7, 2005 4:14:11 am
@Corina: I was thinking of writing on the staring-culture in Karachi, myself...
men don`t even care whether you are just a ten-year old kid...as long as you are a female...
well, as to the segregation, whenever I`ve travelled in public buses, I`ve always somehow found the barrier better, because of the looks people give...
as to the laws for women, you might as well just forget them...local courts give one one of the worst experiences ever...
@ No. 2: the people of Karachi are broad-minded??? well, maybe, if you are saying so in comparison with the other cities...
men don`t even care whether you are just a ten-year old kid...as long as you are a female...
well, as to the segregation, whenever I`ve travelled in public buses, I`ve always somehow found the barrier better, because of the looks people give...
as to the laws for women, you might as well just forget them...local courts give one one of the worst experiences ever...
@ No. 2: the people of Karachi are broad-minded??? well, maybe, if you are saying so in comparison with the other cities...
#4 Posted by Fizza on April 7, 2005 5:05:07 am
Funny how all the pressure is on women. We`re stopped from being outdoor while absolutely nothing is done to stop the sexual predators who await us. If it`s a matter of right and wrong, we`re not doing anything wrong when we`re driving, shopping, taking a casual walk in a garden or working in our offices.
`if you covered up from head to toe this wouldnt happen`. I`ve been obliging by hijab for over four years now. Not that it has any disadvantages, but as far as the assumption that it saves the trouble of being sexually harassed is concerned, that`s just a fantasy. I`ve encountered cars slowing down, whistles, etc. despite being covered (from head to toe). In fact, a male f*r*iend once commented:
``I like girls in hijab. They leave a lot to the imagination!`` and burst into hysterics.
These cheap harkatain aren`t limited to outdoors. They happen at work, in school and maybe even at your own place if someone who found the above comment amusing is around. It could be a stranger staring, an uncle or cousin touching, a male friend constantly making extremely perverted jokes; every dog has its way.
`if you covered up from head to toe this wouldnt happen`. I`ve been obliging by hijab for over four years now. Not that it has any disadvantages, but as far as the assumption that it saves the trouble of being sexually harassed is concerned, that`s just a fantasy. I`ve encountered cars slowing down, whistles, etc. despite being covered (from head to toe). In fact, a male f*r*iend once commented:
``I like girls in hijab. They leave a lot to the imagination!`` and burst into hysterics.
These cheap harkatain aren`t limited to outdoors. They happen at work, in school and maybe even at your own place if someone who found the above comment amusing is around. It could be a stranger staring, an uncle or cousin touching, a male friend constantly making extremely perverted jokes; every dog has its way.
#5 Posted by catfischblues on April 7, 2005 5:37:56 am
It is not only the Pakistani society that perpetuates sexual harassment on the streets but it very much exists here in England as well.
However, I do feel in comparison, that Karachi out of all the three major cities of Pakistan,( Lahore and Islamabad) is most liberal. In fact, whenever I go to Karachi and my most recent trip being last summer, I did not experience any staring problems despite the fact I was wearing pants. However, Lahore and Islamabad are appalling in that respect. I’m not arguing with the author, I’m simply stating my side of the story.
Here in England however, though it is at a lesser degree, but every man here assumes that being a woman means that all you think about it how to catch a man in order to fulfil your female insecure void and read fashion magazine to, again, please a man. In fact my lecturer blatantly accused us women to be consumed with fashion and have no interest in the realm of sociological theory. Though we argued back, he only smiled condescendingly.
Walk on the high street in the evening and the drunken British public are out to chase after you and offer themselves for sex to you. In this society, if a woman is being harassed no man will get up to save her, they would simply believe it’s the woman’s problem, and again they would blame the woman. In the streets of Pakistan, I know you will find someone who will help.
I’m not saying either of the socities are better in treatment towards women, because they are not, I’m just saying that all socities has its own degree of cons when it comes to treatment towards women. Let’s not forget that there are respective advantages. At least you have the right to pen down your feeling on this public forum, and at least there is awareness of women’s predicaments. And there are people who are striving to make the situation better and to some degree have succeeded. Things have progressed tremendously in the last few years, but I do agree we have a long way to go.
Peace.
However, I do feel in comparison, that Karachi out of all the three major cities of Pakistan,( Lahore and Islamabad) is most liberal. In fact, whenever I go to Karachi and my most recent trip being last summer, I did not experience any staring problems despite the fact I was wearing pants. However, Lahore and Islamabad are appalling in that respect. I’m not arguing with the author, I’m simply stating my side of the story.
Here in England however, though it is at a lesser degree, but every man here assumes that being a woman means that all you think about it how to catch a man in order to fulfil your female insecure void and read fashion magazine to, again, please a man. In fact my lecturer blatantly accused us women to be consumed with fashion and have no interest in the realm of sociological theory. Though we argued back, he only smiled condescendingly.
Walk on the high street in the evening and the drunken British public are out to chase after you and offer themselves for sex to you. In this society, if a woman is being harassed no man will get up to save her, they would simply believe it’s the woman’s problem, and again they would blame the woman. In the streets of Pakistan, I know you will find someone who will help.
I’m not saying either of the socities are better in treatment towards women, because they are not, I’m just saying that all socities has its own degree of cons when it comes to treatment towards women. Let’s not forget that there are respective advantages. At least you have the right to pen down your feeling on this public forum, and at least there is awareness of women’s predicaments. And there are people who are striving to make the situation better and to some degree have succeeded. Things have progressed tremendously in the last few years, but I do agree we have a long way to go.
Peace.
#6 Posted by mohar11 on April 7, 2005 5:55:49 am
//..how the hell am I supposed to bring up a daughter in this social climate? ..//
Move out. Go West or even East.
Move out. Go West or even East.
#7 Posted by KaalChakra on April 7, 2005 6:03:02 am
re: mohar11
``Go West...``
England has become as bad (catfischblues # 5). New York?
``Go West...``
England has become as bad (catfischblues # 5). New York?
#8 Posted by rozaiba on April 7, 2005 6:31:38 am
Fizza:
``Funny how all the pressure is on women. We`re stopped from being outdoor while absolutely nothing is done to stop the sexual predators who await us. ``
The way to fight this is to have more intermingling of sexes. To ask that conservative morals be called upon to control the urges is a failed exercise. What is required is more liberalism. More independence. So don’t listen to people who say don’t go outdoors.
‘Cheap harkatain’ are a national trait. Abrar-ul-Haq has glorified them in his songs.
``Funny how all the pressure is on women. We`re stopped from being outdoor while absolutely nothing is done to stop the sexual predators who await us. ``
The way to fight this is to have more intermingling of sexes. To ask that conservative morals be called upon to control the urges is a failed exercise. What is required is more liberalism. More independence. So don’t listen to people who say don’t go outdoors.
‘Cheap harkatain’ are a national trait. Abrar-ul-Haq has glorified them in his songs.
#9 Posted by catfischblues on April 7, 2005 6:40:48 am
I do not believe that the answer rests in moving out of the country. Keep asserting your right as a woman and teach your daughter what her rights are in this society. You as a woman are not the only one struggling for her right of space in society, trust me all of us women are struggling for the same cause. Do not lose faith. Though the Zia era pushed us women into the peripherals of society, we’ve fought our way back in twenty years. And the new generation of young women are continuing to assert their right and place in official professions, education, fashion and driving the cars, some are roaming Karachi beach on their own. And most of all, there are more men than ever before who support the women’s right. Undeniably, we want to be 100% of the perverted stares and the ridiculous hooting and let’s keep fighting for that day.
I think, there should be a new movement, when a man glares at a woman in perversion, just slap him in public. Now imagine, if every single woman did that to a man what anarchy would spread. I can just imagine, one man being slapped a good 20 times a day along with his friend by women. Hilarious.
I think, there should be a new movement, when a man glares at a woman in perversion, just slap him in public. Now imagine, if every single woman did that to a man what anarchy would spread. I can just imagine, one man being slapped a good 20 times a day along with his friend by women. Hilarious.
#10 Posted by KaalChakra on April 7, 2005 7:13:38 am
catfishblues
For a young woman to defend her rights, much less to slap hecklers, is not quite the same if she is born and brought up in the subcontinent as when she is a true-blue Londoner. To begin with the contrary premise not only denies subcontinental women understanding and sympathy but also insults their intelligence.
Mostly, this approach is taken by regressive people who want to shift the focus of change away from where it belongs - social institutions. I am sure that is not your intention.
For a young woman to defend her rights, much less to slap hecklers, is not quite the same if she is born and brought up in the subcontinent as when she is a true-blue Londoner. To begin with the contrary premise not only denies subcontinental women understanding and sympathy but also insults their intelligence.
Mostly, this approach is taken by regressive people who want to shift the focus of change away from where it belongs - social institutions. I am sure that is not your intention.
#11 Posted by one_world on April 7, 2005 7:19:45 am
try to wear a Burka i belive its not bad is it here in saudi..when a female even bundeld in burka l chased by men.
i know life is hard in karachi and all over in pakistan but its all the case among muslim socities. If your fed up try to go cool canada or australia..imigration is very easy tehse days!
but women can be in trouble anywhere anytime and its not just women kids too!
i know life is hard in karachi and all over in pakistan but its all the case among muslim socities. If your fed up try to go cool canada or australia..imigration is very easy tehse days!
but women can be in trouble anywhere anytime and its not just women kids too!
#12 Posted by mohar11 on April 7, 2005 7:23:11 am
Re: # 7 kaal
Yeah - New York is good. As good as it gets.
Yeah - New York is good. As good as it gets.
#13 Posted by temporal on April 7, 2005 7:32:25 am
corina:
welcome to chowk
if you forgive me...this is yet one more issue one feels like throwing up because there is no practical solution on the horizon save one....(this has been discussed to death in the past here and elsewhere)
at one point i suggested women should be empowered...through education and economic mobility...then they will command more respect...that is not to say men do not need education...but that is not coming anytime soon!
meanwhile
here is an idea worth exploring...let`s really empower women in the country by taking both the bullets and the ballots away from men for say the next twenty years and passing them to the women?
lve
t
welcome to chowk
if you forgive me...this is yet one more issue one feels like throwing up because there is no practical solution on the horizon save one....(this has been discussed to death in the past here and elsewhere)
at one point i suggested women should be empowered...through education and economic mobility...then they will command more respect...that is not to say men do not need education...but that is not coming anytime soon!
meanwhile
here is an idea worth exploring...let`s really empower women in the country by taking both the bullets and the ballots away from men for say the next twenty years and passing them to the women?
lve
t
#14 Posted by arjun_m on April 7, 2005 7:40:39 am
#11 by one_world on April 7, 2005 7:19am PT
try to wear a Burka i belive its not bad is it here in saudi..when a female even bundeld in burka l chased by men.
So that`s why faisaluno wears a burkha...cos he`s gay and he likes being chased around by men ...under a burkha, you couldn`t tell a man from a woman......burkha suits him just fine...
try to wear a Burka i belive its not bad is it here in saudi..when a female even bundeld in burka l chased by men.
So that`s why faisaluno wears a burkha...cos he`s gay and he likes being chased around by men ...under a burkha, you couldn`t tell a man from a woman......burkha suits him just fine...
#15 Posted by CheGuevara on April 7, 2005 7:58:27 am
Women have to stop taking shit from men, expecting men to change society is a futile excersise. So the next time some horny perverted bastard tries to get a little chaska here and there kick him in the balls (wear high heels). Trust me the slap thing might just give the guy the wrong message (some people are into that shit) but a nice swift kick in the balls will make it clear in no unambiguous terms exactly how you feel.
#16 Posted by Fizza on April 7, 2005 8:11:44 am
rozaiba: I don`t listen to people who ask me to stay at home because if you think about it, it`s impossible. But it`s also impossible to go out and not feel like you`re a sex toy. And as Carrumba mentions in the article, what about all those helpless girls/women who have absolutely no protection?
catfischblues: ``In the streets of Pakistan, I know you will find someone who will help.`` You actually do, but only after the harm has been done.
A woman can get a pervert busted by the strangers around her if she`s lucky, but it won`t change how she felt in the first place. Mukhtar Mai is an international hero, someone every Pakistani woman from you and me to Benazir Bhutto should look up to but no matter how many publications honor and respect her, nothing can give her back the sense of personal dignity she had prior to the case.
For all those who`re suggesting moving out of Pakistan, do they mean there`s no solution?
catfischblues: ``In the streets of Pakistan, I know you will find someone who will help.`` You actually do, but only after the harm has been done.
A woman can get a pervert busted by the strangers around her if she`s lucky, but it won`t change how she felt in the first place. Mukhtar Mai is an international hero, someone every Pakistani woman from you and me to Benazir Bhutto should look up to but no matter how many publications honor and respect her, nothing can give her back the sense of personal dignity she had prior to the case.
For all those who`re suggesting moving out of Pakistan, do they mean there`s no solution?
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