Mohammad Gill April 3, 2005
#1 Posted by ballukhan on April 3, 2005 11:04:39 pm
``According to kiriyamaprize.org, “..Suketu Mehta .. reportedly plans to use royalties from the sales of the .. book Maximum City to sue India’s government on behalf of the city’s homeless children.” This is a worthy cause and Seketu should be admired for his noble intention.............``
Excellent cause! I am all for it!!! I wonder if the Pakistanin author would do something similar for his mullahdom!!
Excellent cause! I am all for it!!! I wonder if the Pakistanin author would do something similar for his mullahdom!!
#2 Posted by FarzanaVersey on April 3, 2005 11:42:40 pm
Gill saab:
Thank you for bringing Nadeem Aslam into focus here. I read somewhere that he took almost 13 years to write the novel and would try and stay in areas that had a Paksitani population so that stories leaped out at him at every corner. It is also said that at one point when the novel wasn`t moving fast enough, he shut himself from all outside distractions, including the telephone and internet, and discovered about 9/11 only on the 20th of that month. This is just trivia...
I have not read the book, but I am sure it would be a better understanding of the community than that appalling film `East is East`.
I was particularly struck by your comment when you were conversing with a white woman at a bar and she assumed you were from Bradford...you said, “No, not from that Pakistan.”
The lady`s ignorance notwithstanding, I wonder what went through your mind -- an aversion to `that` Pakistan because it was a ghetto or a greater identification with `this` Pakistan that you had left? Would Bradford qualify as the greater Other for you than Pakistan? If so, then why?
I am intrigued and these queries are posed in good faith and a bit of curiosity!
Regards,
Farzana
Thank you for bringing Nadeem Aslam into focus here. I read somewhere that he took almost 13 years to write the novel and would try and stay in areas that had a Paksitani population so that stories leaped out at him at every corner. It is also said that at one point when the novel wasn`t moving fast enough, he shut himself from all outside distractions, including the telephone and internet, and discovered about 9/11 only on the 20th of that month. This is just trivia...
I have not read the book, but I am sure it would be a better understanding of the community than that appalling film `East is East`.
I was particularly struck by your comment when you were conversing with a white woman at a bar and she assumed you were from Bradford...you said, “No, not from that Pakistan.”
The lady`s ignorance notwithstanding, I wonder what went through your mind -- an aversion to `that` Pakistan because it was a ghetto or a greater identification with `this` Pakistan that you had left? Would Bradford qualify as the greater Other for you than Pakistan? If so, then why?
I am intrigued and these queries are posed in good faith and a bit of curiosity!
Regards,
Farzana
#3 Posted by FarzanaVersey on April 4, 2005 12:25:18 am
Re: # 1:
Obsessive-compulsive reaction!
Pakistan too happens to have homeless children (among other disadvantaged groups), so should the author wish to use his royalties he may not fall short of worthy causes to support. Mullahs are the fringe elements. Wonder why no one thinks it fit to wish that Suketu Mehta of Gujarati origin has not chosen to do anything about the other kinds of mullahs in our backyard...
Obsessive-compulsive reaction!
Pakistan too happens to have homeless children (among other disadvantaged groups), so should the author wish to use his royalties he may not fall short of worthy causes to support. Mullahs are the fringe elements. Wonder why no one thinks it fit to wish that Suketu Mehta of Gujarati origin has not chosen to do anything about the other kinds of mullahs in our backyard...
#4 Posted by ballukhan on April 4, 2005 12:51:59 am
Re: # 3
I have not read Aslm`s book but from what I can see :
``This is a story of Pakistani conservatism in a liberated ambience of England, a story of a civilization clash within a family of blended values of liberalism and orthodoxy. ``
Obviously Alam raised the issues about Conservatism within the Pakistani society which draws its sustenance from the mullahs who are definitely not in the fringes but are nearer to the CORE of Pakistani power centres.
It is also a sad fact that to those elites in the `inner most core` these mullahs only appear to be distant (and hence `manageable`) from their vantage position and hence on the `fringes` . But look at this society from a different view and this so called fringe looks NEARER to the core. Stop seeing this Pakistan from the eyes of these elites who do not consider Mullahism as of any pernicious influence to Pakistan- so that they may not make the mistake that the people of Gujrat did when they tolerated BJP and elected Modi.
I have not read Aslm`s book but from what I can see :
``This is a story of Pakistani conservatism in a liberated ambience of England, a story of a civilization clash within a family of blended values of liberalism and orthodoxy. ``
Obviously Alam raised the issues about Conservatism within the Pakistani society which draws its sustenance from the mullahs who are definitely not in the fringes but are nearer to the CORE of Pakistani power centres.
It is also a sad fact that to those elites in the `inner most core` these mullahs only appear to be distant (and hence `manageable`) from their vantage position and hence on the `fringes` . But look at this society from a different view and this so called fringe looks NEARER to the core. Stop seeing this Pakistan from the eyes of these elites who do not consider Mullahism as of any pernicious influence to Pakistan- so that they may not make the mistake that the people of Gujrat did when they tolerated BJP and elected Modi.
#5 Posted by ballukhan on April 4, 2005 1:58:35 am
Let me also quote Feroz on this Mullahs-On-The-Fringe thesis on which we share similar views:
``Therefore, contary to your claim, the mullah/clergy is an elite group in the context of Pakistan. The clergy of Pakistan which is a minority political group, excersies political power in Pakistan beyond its size and it is able to influence politics to a signficant extent. The clergy has a well defined and established role in the rural areas of Pakistan, where it helps to influence the issues. In the villages, more than in the cities, the clergy is also a part of the social elite and helps to influence the politics and customs of the village life. The clergy, through use of Islam as a tool for cultural expression, is also able to create a very powerful niche for itself in society. When all thse factors are taken into account, the mullah/clery does fit the bill of being an elite in Pakistani society, because of its power base, which is not representative to its numerical percentage as a part of Pakistani society.
........ ``
http://www.chowk.com/show_article.cgi?aid=00004959&channel=civic%20center
``Therefore, contary to your claim, the mullah/clergy is an elite group in the context of Pakistan. The clergy of Pakistan which is a minority political group, excersies political power in Pakistan beyond its size and it is able to influence politics to a signficant extent. The clergy has a well defined and established role in the rural areas of Pakistan, where it helps to influence the issues. In the villages, more than in the cities, the clergy is also a part of the social elite and helps to influence the politics and customs of the village life. The clergy, through use of Islam as a tool for cultural expression, is also able to create a very powerful niche for itself in society. When all thse factors are taken into account, the mullah/clery does fit the bill of being an elite in Pakistani society, because of its power base, which is not representative to its numerical percentage as a part of Pakistani society.
........ ``
http://www.chowk.com/show_article.cgi?aid=00004959&channel=civic%20center
#6 Posted by nazarhayatkhan on April 4, 2005 4:21:49 am
Ballukhan # 5
(In the villages, more than in the cities, the clergy is also a part of the social elite and helps to influence the politics and customs of the village life.)
I beg to differ on this. In villages, clergy is not madressa-educated Mulla but good old Maulvee. He is treated as a cast just like the Moochi, Kumhar, Taeli, Lohar, Mirasee, Musalee, Julahaa...etc. After every crop, he get his share. He or his son goes to all the houses of the village in the evening and gets a Rotee. He performs religious rituals like Azaan in the ear of newly born, Nikaa, Fateha etc.
His sermon is in Punjabi and it consists of fairy-tale like stories of Islam.
The dangerous guy is the Mulla educated from the Madressa usually located on the outskirts of big cities. Small towns are also notorious for radicle Mullas.
But the run-of-mill village Maulvee is quite harmless and a safe creature.
nhk
#7 Posted by Blasphemer on April 4, 2005 5:03:09 am
Its a seriously Krappy, constipated novel. It made the short list for the bad sex award and should have won for the following example of laughably bad prose:
+++++
Maps for Lost Lovers by Nadeem Aslam (Faber & Faber)
At the tip of his penis, the dot of starlit ache - which had to be kept in place and referred to periodically to maintain the erection, but was never to be dwelt on because then it would spread and lead to climax - was growing larger.
His mouth looked for the oiled berry. Her taste came and went tidally salt and sour in his mouth, as eloquent as weather.
When he fell through the sensation and opened his eyes he was surprised to find her there.
And he could not hold her close enough.
The smell of his armpits was on her shoulders - a flower depositing pollen on a hummingbird`s forehead.
They detonated the remains of each other`s orgasms with fingers and tongues, areas of their bodies sticking together with sweat that was like the weak glue that holds segments of an orange together.
(p127)
+++++
I mean seriously, please, come on, `oiled berry`? `, `as eloquent as weather?` This is terrible, awful, pompous writing, more Purple than Prince and it is like something Barbra Cartland would have written is she had ever felt horny.
Mohammad Gill
[[Although majority of the immigrant youths is born in Britain, people straddling two cultures (who were born in the subcontinent and are living in England) are not uncommon]]
If they are born in Britain, they are not immgrants. Understand?
[[With the passage of time, Indo-Pakistani culture is firmly planted in England so much so that the Sikhs protesting against ‘Behzti’ in Birmingham were able to block its staging because they thought it slurred and degraded their religion. It was a slap on the face of free speech. Yet, Sikhs carried the day]]
No, `Sikhs` did not carry the day, a small proportion of Sikhs did. Understand the difference? Can you tell the difference between the individual Muslims who burned The Satanic Verses and the entire Muslim community? They are not the same undifferentiated mass. I thought you were a scientist, and yet you cannot grasp that point? Use your brain cells.
In 1989 a play about Zionism was stopped after protests from Jewish groups. It did not mean the end of freedom of speech, nor did it mean that `Jews` were destroying the values of freedom blah blah blah. Same thing here. Same thing with Rushdie. Muslims Sikhs and Hindus have been making a space for themselves in England as they have America and Canada in numerous ways more subtle than you seem able to perceive.
#8 Posted by freethinker on April 4, 2005 5:25:30 am
Farzana:
I had said it in a matter of fact way. All that I meant was, ``I am from Pakistan but not from Bradford.`` The point of this little diversion was to say that cultural pockets had developed in England which were symbolized with the people who inhabited them. In metro-Detroit, there is a small town called Hamtramck. It is popularly called `Pole Town` because most of the people who lived there were polish. Now a lot of Bangla Deshis`s and Pakistanis also live there alongwith other communities but it is still known as Pole Town. And I like to think that the woman also meant well; she used it just to start the chit-chat. My point was that the immigrant culture had started taking roots. Now people like Nadeem Aslam, Hanif Kureishi, and Salman Rushdie are putting their stamp in the literary world.
It is said that Nadeem took 11 years to complete his novel. It has been hyped too much; that is the reason I avoided mentioning it in the article.
Mohammad Gill
I had said it in a matter of fact way. All that I meant was, ``I am from Pakistan but not from Bradford.`` The point of this little diversion was to say that cultural pockets had developed in England which were symbolized with the people who inhabited them. In metro-Detroit, there is a small town called Hamtramck. It is popularly called `Pole Town` because most of the people who lived there were polish. Now a lot of Bangla Deshis`s and Pakistanis also live there alongwith other communities but it is still known as Pole Town. And I like to think that the woman also meant well; she used it just to start the chit-chat. My point was that the immigrant culture had started taking roots. Now people like Nadeem Aslam, Hanif Kureishi, and Salman Rushdie are putting their stamp in the literary world.
It is said that Nadeem took 11 years to complete his novel. It has been hyped too much; that is the reason I avoided mentioning it in the article.
Mohammad Gill
#9 Posted by Blasphemer on April 4, 2005 6:17:39 am
Farzana Versey
[[Wonder why no one thinks it fit to wish that Suketu Mehta of Gujarati origin has not chosen to do anything about the other kinds of mullahs in our backyard...]]
Mehta does plenty to trace the outline of Hindutvaist fascismo in Bombay and the violence perpetrated against Muslims in 1992 in his book Maximum City.
#10 Posted by Romair on April 4, 2005 7:21:28 am
Nadeem Aslam is the best Pakistani writer of English prose, at the moment. In fact, of all time. He is head and shoulders above the rest of the crowd. His writing talents are on clear display in this book.
Good writers write about events, in an interesting fashion. Great writers write about people, in an interesting fashion. Exceptional writers write about nothing, and can still make it interesting. This is what the great Urdu poets do. They write, over and over, about the same subject, yet each times their usage of words makes their poetry different and interesting.
This is exactly what Nadeem has achieved in this book. He has written about the life of a simple family, with only one major event in the background. Yet has made it very interesting, simply due to his usage of words; specifically analogies.
This book has received excellent reviews, including a glowing one from Salman Rushdie. It was on the long-list of thirteen (?) finalists for last year`s Booker Prize. If he writes a bit quicker than one every ten years, I think he has the best shot at winning a Booker of any Pakistani writer. In fact, he is the only one who will be in the running out of the Pakistani authors..............
Good writers write about events, in an interesting fashion. Great writers write about people, in an interesting fashion. Exceptional writers write about nothing, and can still make it interesting. This is what the great Urdu poets do. They write, over and over, about the same subject, yet each times their usage of words makes their poetry different and interesting.
This is exactly what Nadeem has achieved in this book. He has written about the life of a simple family, with only one major event in the background. Yet has made it very interesting, simply due to his usage of words; specifically analogies.
This book has received excellent reviews, including a glowing one from Salman Rushdie. It was on the long-list of thirteen (?) finalists for last year`s Booker Prize. If he writes a bit quicker than one every ten years, I think he has the best shot at winning a Booker of any Pakistani writer. In fact, he is the only one who will be in the running out of the Pakistani authors..............
#11 Posted by aslam644 on April 4, 2005 10:48:22 am
mr gill
interesting article
[This reminds me of a tidbit. Around 1969, one weekend night after finishing my laboratory work, I went to a local pub for a drink. At the bar, a white woman started a chit-chat with me. In the course of our chat, she asked me where I came from.]
most likely she was trying to be friendly with you. my uncle came to england in the early 1950s, he told me of his many adventures with `Gorian`.
now here is a dilema, how do you keep the peasants in Mirpur once they heard about the `Gorian` of England?
impossible one reason why some villages in Mirpur are virtually empty.
regards aslam
interesting article
[This reminds me of a tidbit. Around 1969, one weekend night after finishing my laboratory work, I went to a local pub for a drink. At the bar, a white woman started a chit-chat with me. In the course of our chat, she asked me where I came from.]
most likely she was trying to be friendly with you. my uncle came to england in the early 1950s, he told me of his many adventures with `Gorian`.
now here is a dilema, how do you keep the peasants in Mirpur once they heard about the `Gorian` of England?
impossible one reason why some villages in Mirpur are virtually empty.
regards aslam
#12 Posted by cayenne on April 4, 2005 11:43:17 am
With the passage of time, Indo-Pakistani culture is firmly planted in England so much.........
I pray for the native english people who have lost their emerald isle to the human refuse from the subcontinent and are presently living in the United Kingdom of New Bong-la-desh,Scotland and Wales.Thank god for the scots.They will not put up with hordes of unhygienic, rodent-like procreating, religiously psychotic boors, unlike the effete english.I have no sympathy for them.They asked for it by allowing these people to settle there.
#13 Posted by freethinker on April 4, 2005 11:45:42 am
aslam644:
I was there in the bar for a quick drink; I had other things on my mind. So, I really don`t know. But these kinds of incidents were fairly common.
Once in a bar, two whites, one from Scotland and the other from Queen`s own land, were heatedly discussing the virtues of their respective lands, like Indians and Pakistanis. Both of them wanted endorsement of their views from me. I heard both of them nodding my head now and then but didn`t say anything. After a short while, I left the bar and they were still at it. I think they were enjoying what they were doing.
Mohammad Gill
I was there in the bar for a quick drink; I had other things on my mind. So, I really don`t know. But these kinds of incidents were fairly common.
Once in a bar, two whites, one from Scotland and the other from Queen`s own land, were heatedly discussing the virtues of their respective lands, like Indians and Pakistanis. Both of them wanted endorsement of their views from me. I heard both of them nodding my head now and then but didn`t say anything. After a short while, I left the bar and they were still at it. I think they were enjoying what they were doing.
Mohammad Gill
#14 Posted by cayenne on April 4, 2005 12:06:07 pm
#9 by Blasphemer on April 4, 2005 6:17am
Mehta does plenty to trace the outline of Hindutvaist fascismo in Bombay and the violence perpetrated against Muslims in 1992 in his book Maximum City.
..........The same Bombay that spawned the Hindutva fascismo, as you call them, is also the home of the second largest catholic diocese in the world, outside of Rome, the Archbishop of which, Ivan Cardinal Dias, is one of the shortlisted candidates for Pope!!!.Not to mention , also the home of 3 million muslims, producing a native son to high office, Chief Justice and Vice-President of India(1979-1984) Mohammed Hidayatullah.Leave India be man.There`s room for everyone here.
Mehta does plenty to trace the outline of Hindutvaist fascismo in Bombay and the violence perpetrated against Muslims in 1992 in his book Maximum City.
..........The same Bombay that spawned the Hindutva fascismo, as you call them, is also the home of the second largest catholic diocese in the world, outside of Rome, the Archbishop of which, Ivan Cardinal Dias, is one of the shortlisted candidates for Pope!!!.Not to mention , also the home of 3 million muslims, producing a native son to high office, Chief Justice and Vice-President of India(1979-1984) Mohammed Hidayatullah.Leave India be man.There`s room for everyone here.
#15 Posted by Blasphemer on April 4, 2005 2:25:57 pm
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#16 Posted by Blasphemer on April 4, 2005 2:58:21 pm
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