The Barbarians Within The Gates!

``The only way to stop this rot in Pakistan is not to wage an ironic jihad against Islam in the name of moderation, but to stop enlisting the sanction of religion to maintain political power.``...... Mr Khan, which Islam are we talking about here? Do you seriously consider residents, dwellers, tribesmen and foriegners in Wana (Waziristan) to be Muslims? They are mere criminals and outlaws - who have destruction and devastation on their minds. Their bread and butter is smuggling and murder. So called ``terrorists`` by the west. With out going into the reason of why they have emerged I would suffice it to say here that they are getting what they deserve. Sad. But inevitable.

``The only way to stop this rot in Pakistan is not to wage an ironic jihad against Islam in the name of moderation, but to stop enlisting the sanction of religion to maintain political power.``...... Mr Khan, which Islam are we talking about here? Do you seriously consider residents, dwellers, tribesmen and foriegners in Wana (Waziristan) to be Muslims? They are mere criminals and outlaws - who have destruction and devastation on their minds. Their bread and butter is smuggling and murder. So called ``terrorists`` by the west. With out going into the reason of why they have emerged I would suffice it to say here that they are getting what they deserve. Sad. But inevitable.

There is no denying the desire among common Pakistanis to keep Pakistan a distinctly Islamic state, however that in itself does not define the nature of a theocracy, nor is the fact that Pakistani politicians (wisely) tread softly around Pakistani sentiments on this particular issue explain the otherwise continuing failure of the Pakistanis to form coherent political movements.

We can go on about the Military-Mullah nexus, however at the end of the day it is only the military that matters, and the Mullah happens to be the servant de jour to implement military policy. The military seizes power in a bloodless coup, canceling democracy, and yet somehow religion is to blame because the military happens to use religious rhetoric from time to time after the fact.

Here, religion is seen as the enemy of democracy, yet the fact is the military did not co-opt power solely for the sake of religion, nor was that the a rationale given for taking power, nor do they get support for their appeasement of Mullahs (hint: stability). The author needs to check his fear/hate of religion as it is clearly affecting his ability to digest obvious political realities.

I think it is military that is using religion in a perverted manner. I do not think religion has influenced the military in any special manner.

Millitary and Religion are both using each other. Millitary is in the driver`s seat. They use religion to further their nationalistic cause and self interests. One way to tame masses is thru religion.

Good article,
I believe Religion and politics should not mix and they do not mix.
It is a lethal combination which accounts for the hasty laws created in Pakistan under the guise of Islam. Since the so-called Islamisation carried out under Zia ul Haq, Pakistani government and society has been fighting sectarian strife and violence. Every new government tries to please the “Mullah” population to stay in power. Political decisions are influenced out by ignorant religious leaders who do not even know what Islam stands for. If we are such a religious country then why do the weakest masses of our society suffer. I thought Islam was supposed to create a society which was peaceful not one where a woman is raped and then put in jail for claiming she was raped.
We need a more secular approach and actually make decisions which benefit the country not take it back to the dark ages. There is no law and order, no constitutional protection of rights and that attitude of anything goes. If you belong to a rich and powerful family you are protected but if you do not have these connections you are fair game. I do not understand, even though they cry Islamic republic of Pakistan, do we even have any laws that protect people under what Islam guarantees?
Instead of giving the political reign to the Mullah’s we should give a chance to actual politics to run the country and not use religion to dominate politics.

Until a couple of days ago, I was a very gung-ho `separate-religion-from-politics-and-become-secularist` person.

Then I saw how totally and completely silly that way of thinking is. Now I would suggest: Forget it. Think of some new `Islamic secuarlism` or something like that. Otherwise, all of us will be reading such unrealistic and illogical calls for secuarlism until we are very deep and very cold inside our graves.

Do what`s doable.

FR Khan

(but to stop enlisting the sanction of religion to maintain political power)

Your crusade is praisworthy. But it is a whole big mess of confusions & contradictions.

Jay is right when he keeps pointing at the source. TNT & ideology, whatever it is. This issue has to be resolved at the source by disowning the TNT and a new begining made with simple universal ideas of equality, liberty & freedom.

nhk

``Hence, the critical question is not whether Pakistanis are moderate or favor an enlightened version of Islam, but the question is: are the demi-gods of Pakistan capable of believing in what they preach or are they so feeble that they need the rod of religion to stand on the platform political power in Pakistan?``

I think this is where people get it wrong, with respect to Pakistan. The question is actually, ``whether Pakistanis are moderate or favor an enlightenment.`` Not what the demi-gods think. Political parties and political forces, in any country, try to have their finger on the pulse of the population. And there is a reason why they tend to have a religious leaning. Because the people have a religious leaning.

I have no idea why people are unwilling to accept this, and why they keep trying to paint the population as something it is not. And try to portray a difference of opinion between the ruling groups and the populations..............

The problem with Pakistan is not lack of religion. And it is not excess of religion either. Two myths that two groups keep propogating. The problem is good governance.

The population is generally religious (definitely non-secular), but not theocratically religious. However, due to the ill-governance provided by the non-theocratic forces (both from the political and military side), the population seems to be leaning somewhat more towards the theocratic side.

So the solution lies in the critiquing the non-theocratic parties and urging them to get their act together. Not in blaming everything on the theocratic side. The theocratic forces are only doing what they have always been saying they are going to do............They are presenting their case and trying to put into the mainstream, which is what every political force tries to do..............

well, people of Pakistan are religious and this can be the case with most of the countries of the world, populations do have some religion. so the problem is all the corruption, illiteracy wholly known as lack of good governance.
religion is merely a tool used by the military & civillian politicians to rule the country.

Re:Romair#9

Good governance cannot occur in a vaccum. It needs three things - 1) qualified people becoming leaders 2) a system of checks and balances to curb abuses and 3) an in-built systemic need to share power with various constituencies so that lop-sided decisions are not made. For e.g in the US, you have the electoral process to choose leaders for executive power, a legislative process full of checks and balances that is further kept in place by the judiciary and thirdly a high hurdle to make radical changes like constitutional amendments thus ensuring consensus in decision making.

Without this organizational and procedural foundation, you are subject to what luck throws at you. If you by chance get good leaders who are willing to curb their power and build consensu, good for you. In most instances, this does not happen.

In Pakistan, none of the above requirementes are satisified.

amit #11: Yes, you are correct.

This is, infact, the point I am trying to make. This is what people need to look at. However, what they keep doing is arguing whether Pakistan needs more religion, or whether it needs less religion. This is, unfortunately, the main discourse, on this site.

What the main discourse should be how to get good governance.

Pakistan currently has three political forces. The feudals who occupy the more non-theocratic/secular sphere. The maulvis who occupy the theocratic sphere (though not militantly, like the BJP). And the Army, which has occupies the more non-theocratic sphere under Ayub and Musharraf. And more theocratic sphere under Zia.

In the field of politics, none of these forces are progressive in nature due to different reasons. The feudals are inherently regressive and do not want the poor class to be liberated, because it will end their hold on land. They are into honor killings and things of that sort. And they are very elitist. The maulvis represent the poor class and are not elitist. But they have other baggage, due to which they are out of touch with the 21st century. They are also into things like Hudood ordinance.

Ironically, the Army is the only major political force that represents the middle class. And it is relatively progressive internally, i.e. it is not into honor killings and Hudood ordinances. However, the Army rule, like all army rules, has other problems. A dictatorship can only be good in a short term, but never in the long term, since one bad dictator can bring a country down...........

In all these cases, religion is neither here, nor there. It is bad governance, and various difference forms of regressiveness that is the problem. Doesn`t matter if it comes from theocratic or non-theocratic forces.

Unfortunately, the group that should be running Pakistan i.e. the educated progressive urban middle class, has no representation in either the religious side or the non-religious side. They only have one party with some success, and that is MQM. Imran Khan`s party has been unsuccessful. As has Asghar Khan`s etc.

This is the group that needs to come to the top. And it won`t really matter whether it comes to the top through the religious side or the non-religious side. As long as it provides good governance, Pakistan will be ok.

So it is good governance that needs to be debated. This includes the institutions that lead to good governance also. People, however, keep debating religion.............Gets a bit boring and tiring after a while..............

F.R.Khan,
good article.
Every Government civil or military needs Mulla.
clear proof of that is re-insertion of religious column in passport.

Yawn........!! Same debates all over again....!!

The problem ladies and gentlemen is not about whether Pakistanis want a secular state, Islamic state, or whatever... this is where we make the mistake... some Pakistanis do want a secular state, some want an Islamic state etc etc...

However for now this is a settled issue... as per the constitution of 1973, the Islamic Republic of Pakistan is a state that is federal Islamic and democratic. Personally I think this constitution is not satisfactory... but let us accept this the constitution of the country .... for we have to operate on certain basis.

According to the constitution ... sovereignty over the entire universe is vested in Allah and the people of Pakistan are supposed to exercise this sovereignty as a sacred trust. So the sovereignty directly lies with the people of Pakistan defacto... without any distinction per se.

Now here is where I object to the whole religion column thing...

1) The passport is a travel document .... issued to all citizens of Pakistan. It serves in no way in the determination of any political ideology. Citizens regardless of their views on Pakistani ideology (imaginary, divine or real) are citizens of the country.

2) Travel to Mecca is an issue the Saudi Arabian Embassy should deal with.

3) Whether Islamic or secular (and right now it is supposed to be Islamic), the constitution of Pakistan does not allow a distinction between the citizens.... so such a measure is unconstitutional.

I have often felt that the society in Pakistan is only as religious or secular as any other society. They are driven by the same concerns, same ideas etc. And a large number of them love to get smashed on a saturday night (here Rozaiba will affirm that this large number is found in lower and lower middle classes). The problem here is that the political system has adopted too much superfluous nonsense .... which serves no purpose whatsoever...

But Feroz how does one get out of it?

The only way out is the constitutional way. Work with the 1973 constitution... get to the parliament ... work with likeminded people... slowly but surely more people will join and Pakistan will move towards a modern secular society. The constitutional way dictates that we move up the ranks of the constitutional ladder. You need a 2/3rds majority. Mullahs need a 2/3rds majority also... it is a fair game.

You and I ... and others like us have to jump in the fray... merely writing articles will not do. We have to take responsibility... because if we don`t who will?

I do not think that the problem is whether Pakistan is an Islamic state or not. You can change the constitution to make it whatever you want, but as long as you have people who are not good in governance, you lack institutions to uphold basic rights of citizens, things will not change.

Your successive politicans and army dictators have undermined your institutions so badly, that your society is becoming one of where ``Might is Right ``. And as citizens of Pakistan you are all to blame for it, because you watched it silently without raising your voice, just the way in India we are to blame for believing in caste and secatarian violence.

Dont blame religion. Thats just an excuse, blame yourself and people you bring to power.