F-16s to Pakistan—Why Now?
Karamatullah K Ghori April 5, 2005
#113 Posted by CoolAL on April 7, 2005 10:12:47 pm
#111
Instead of crowing like an idiot, if I were you I would be scared shitless. What you are looking at is an Army that has the courage to critically examine itself and admit to its flaws. This happened during Kargil. They have gone and overhauled the entire set-up there that is why they are discussing this in public.
Contrast that with the ``Pure`` army. They do not have the balls to conduct an review off what happened in Kargil. They supressed the Hamdoor Rehman report on 1971 war till India Today leaked it out. They still brainwash nincompoops like you that Kargil was done by Jihadis and Bangladesh holocaust never happened. You guys actually won all the wars with India including 1971
Instead of crowing like an idiot, if I were you I would be scared shitless. What you are looking at is an Army that has the courage to critically examine itself and admit to its flaws. This happened during Kargil. They have gone and overhauled the entire set-up there that is why they are discussing this in public.
Contrast that with the ``Pure`` army. They do not have the balls to conduct an review off what happened in Kargil. They supressed the Hamdoor Rehman report on 1971 war till India Today leaked it out. They still brainwash nincompoops like you that Kargil was done by Jihadis and Bangladesh holocaust never happened. You guys actually won all the wars with India including 1971
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#114 Posted by taqat-e-parvaaz on April 7, 2005 10:17:27 pm
Re: # 112
heres a kick in your ass. i hope pimples dont form like they have in your fellow countrymens shri harish and shri arjuns. the second story appeared on MSNBC. i`ve added the first one just for good measure. shows what a chronic inferiority complex there is in bhindu land. veggie samosa? :P
Pakistani balloon causes panic in Himachal
Chamba: A Pakistani balloon found near village Chask Bhatori in Pangi tribal valley of Chamba district in Himachal Pradesh, adjoining Jammu and Kashmir`s Doda district, has caused surprise and panic.
The balloon, inscribed with slogans such as `Pak fauj ko slaam`, `Pak Zindabad` and `Dil Pakistan`, was discovered by villagers on Monday, who immediately informed police officials at Killar police station, the valley headquarters.
The balloon, measuring about two-and-a-half feet in diameter, was later kept in police custody.
Police sources said it appeared to be one of the balloons flown in the air by the Pakistan government on the occasion of their Independence Day on August 14.
As far as the microsatellites are concerned, I have something else to spank you with:
http://home.datawest.net/dawog/Space/e20010430secret_empire%20(space%20threat).htm
MSNBC.com
April 28, 2001
The Secret Empire: The U.S. Military In The 21st Century
The Threat Over The Horizon
Military cites 1998 failure of satellite as an omen
By Jonathan Broder, Special to MSNBC.com
WASHINGTON — How damaging would a concerted attack on American satellite systems be? Pentagon officials cite the 1998 malfunction of the Galaxy IV satellite, which shut down 80 percent of pagers in the United States, as an example of the disruptions that could follow an attack. The episode was deemed an accident. China, however, made it known that future malfunctions might not be accidental.
``FOR COUNTRIES that could never win a war by using the methods of tanks and planes, attacking the U.S. space system may be an irresistible and most tempting choice,`` said a report in the state-run Xinhua News Agency days after the malfunction.
Along with pager systems, the Galaxy IV failure also disrupted cable and broadcast video feeds, credit card authorization networks and corporate communications systems for weeks.
As things currently stand, satellites the military relies on are no less vulnerable than Galaxy IV.
In January, a two-year study by a panel of generals and civilian defense experts, including Donald Rumsfeld, the man who would become secretary of defense, laid out a host of emerging threats to U.S. satellites:
*Attacks on satellite ground stations: Such assaults could range from a physical attack on stations to computer hackers breaking into the networks that direct the satellites and receive their transmissions.
*Denial and deception: With the means to counter military space systems increasingly available on the international market, countries can foil reconnaissance satellites by learning their orbital and sensor characteristics and then hiding or disguising targets when the satellites fly over.
*Jamming: Many countries, including Russia, China, Iraq, North Korea, Iran and Cuba, possess electronic jamming capabilities to disrupt satellite operations. Pentagon officials say the chances of such capability falling into the hands of terrorist groups or individuals has increased with the miniaturization of jamming devices. Russia now markets a hand-held system the size of a cigarette packet that can jam Global Positioning Satellite transmissions for 50 miles. A slightly larger version can block transmissions for 160 miles. Both could be used not only against U.S. ground forces but also against aircraft.
*Ground lasers: Directed at an orbiting satellite, these high-energy beams can be projected into space to dazzle or blind a satellite’s sensors and cameras. Some U.S. military satellites are equipped with shutters to guard against laser attack, but many are defenseless, the report said.
*Microsatellites and nanosatellites: With the miniaturization of space system technologies, these small satellites range between 200 and 20 pounds and even come in sizes as small as a compact disc player. Highly maneuverable and packed with super-sophisticated electronics, they can zoom up beside other satellites, inspect them with cameras and transmit images back to Earth.
Weaponized microsatellites loaded with rockets or lasers are expected to emerge in the coming years, capable of disrupting, disabling or destroying enemy satellites. Among the countries that possess microsatellite technology are the United States, Russia, China, Israel and Pakistan.
*Nuclear detonation: The explosion of even a small nuclear device in space would destroy or damage nearby satellites and leave lingering radiation that would halt new satellite operations for months. Pentagon officials say all that is needed for an attack like this is a rocket and simple nuclear device. Iraq, Iran, North Korea, Israel and Pakistan, along with the five declared nuclear states, already have missiles that can reach the necessary altitudes, and either possess or are believed to be developing nuclear weapons.
New Technologies
Some technologies to protect U.S. satellites from attack already exist, as a result of SDI research. The most basic is a two-stage missile that is launched from a high-flying F-15 fighter jet and homes in on enemy satellites that are threatening American spacecraft.
Many U.S. military satellites also have been ``hardened`` to protect components against radiation damage from nuclear explosions in space and outfitted with ``stealth`` technology to reduce their radar profiles. Others carry anti-jamming electronics and shutters to deflect enemy lasers. Sensitive surveillance equipment also has been placed on a number of non-military satellites in an effort to diversify and hide intelligence-gathering capability.
New technological efforts involve the development of advanced sensors and methods of propulsion that would enable American satellites to detect and evade pursuing killer satellites. In a strange hybrid of 19th and 21st century technologies, one space firm is experimenting with a satellite propulsion system that runs on steam.
But research is not only confined to purely defensive countermeasures. Next month, in what could be a major advance for space-based offensive weapons, NASA engineers at Dryden Flight Research Center in Edwards, Calif., will test a revolutionary unmanned aerial vehicle that someday may orbit the Earth and, upon command, strike targets elsewhere in space or anywhere on the globe.
Called the Hyper-X, the aerial vehicle has been described by Army sources as a cross between a ballistic missile and cruise missile. Equipped with stealth technology, the Hyper-X uses a new kind of air-breathing jet engine that produces speeds of up to Mach 10, or 7,200 mph at sea level, NASA says. At such hypersonic speeds, the Hyper-X could not be intercepted.
Loaded with a conventional warhead, the Hyper-X also would fall outside the 1967 Outer Space Treaty, which bans the deployment of nuclear weapons in space. In its first round of tests, the Hyper-X will be dropped from the wing of a high-flying B-52 bomber. But NASA officials say the new engine technology, known as scramjet — or supersonic combustion ramjets — eventually could open the way for a new generation of reusable space planes that can take off and land like conventional aircraft. In space, such spacecraft also could be used for anti-satellite operation.
heres a kick in your ass. i hope pimples dont form like they have in your fellow countrymens shri harish and shri arjuns. the second story appeared on MSNBC. i`ve added the first one just for good measure. shows what a chronic inferiority complex there is in bhindu land. veggie samosa? :P
Pakistani balloon causes panic in Himachal
Chamba: A Pakistani balloon found near village Chask Bhatori in Pangi tribal valley of Chamba district in Himachal Pradesh, adjoining Jammu and Kashmir`s Doda district, has caused surprise and panic.
The balloon, inscribed with slogans such as `Pak fauj ko slaam`, `Pak Zindabad` and `Dil Pakistan`, was discovered by villagers on Monday, who immediately informed police officials at Killar police station, the valley headquarters.
The balloon, measuring about two-and-a-half feet in diameter, was later kept in police custody.
Police sources said it appeared to be one of the balloons flown in the air by the Pakistan government on the occasion of their Independence Day on August 14.
As far as the microsatellites are concerned, I have something else to spank you with:
http://home.datawest.net/dawog/Space/e20010430secret_empire%20(space%20threat).htm
MSNBC.com
April 28, 2001
The Secret Empire: The U.S. Military In The 21st Century
The Threat Over The Horizon
Military cites 1998 failure of satellite as an omen
By Jonathan Broder, Special to MSNBC.com
WASHINGTON — How damaging would a concerted attack on American satellite systems be? Pentagon officials cite the 1998 malfunction of the Galaxy IV satellite, which shut down 80 percent of pagers in the United States, as an example of the disruptions that could follow an attack. The episode was deemed an accident. China, however, made it known that future malfunctions might not be accidental.
``FOR COUNTRIES that could never win a war by using the methods of tanks and planes, attacking the U.S. space system may be an irresistible and most tempting choice,`` said a report in the state-run Xinhua News Agency days after the malfunction.
Along with pager systems, the Galaxy IV failure also disrupted cable and broadcast video feeds, credit card authorization networks and corporate communications systems for weeks.
As things currently stand, satellites the military relies on are no less vulnerable than Galaxy IV.
In January, a two-year study by a panel of generals and civilian defense experts, including Donald Rumsfeld, the man who would become secretary of defense, laid out a host of emerging threats to U.S. satellites:
*Attacks on satellite ground stations: Such assaults could range from a physical attack on stations to computer hackers breaking into the networks that direct the satellites and receive their transmissions.
*Denial and deception: With the means to counter military space systems increasingly available on the international market, countries can foil reconnaissance satellites by learning their orbital and sensor characteristics and then hiding or disguising targets when the satellites fly over.
*Jamming: Many countries, including Russia, China, Iraq, North Korea, Iran and Cuba, possess electronic jamming capabilities to disrupt satellite operations. Pentagon officials say the chances of such capability falling into the hands of terrorist groups or individuals has increased with the miniaturization of jamming devices. Russia now markets a hand-held system the size of a cigarette packet that can jam Global Positioning Satellite transmissions for 50 miles. A slightly larger version can block transmissions for 160 miles. Both could be used not only against U.S. ground forces but also against aircraft.
*Ground lasers: Directed at an orbiting satellite, these high-energy beams can be projected into space to dazzle or blind a satellite’s sensors and cameras. Some U.S. military satellites are equipped with shutters to guard against laser attack, but many are defenseless, the report said.
*Microsatellites and nanosatellites: With the miniaturization of space system technologies, these small satellites range between 200 and 20 pounds and even come in sizes as small as a compact disc player. Highly maneuverable and packed with super-sophisticated electronics, they can zoom up beside other satellites, inspect them with cameras and transmit images back to Earth.
Weaponized microsatellites loaded with rockets or lasers are expected to emerge in the coming years, capable of disrupting, disabling or destroying enemy satellites. Among the countries that possess microsatellite technology are the United States, Russia, China, Israel and Pakistan.
*Nuclear detonation: The explosion of even a small nuclear device in space would destroy or damage nearby satellites and leave lingering radiation that would halt new satellite operations for months. Pentagon officials say all that is needed for an attack like this is a rocket and simple nuclear device. Iraq, Iran, North Korea, Israel and Pakistan, along with the five declared nuclear states, already have missiles that can reach the necessary altitudes, and either possess or are believed to be developing nuclear weapons.
New Technologies
Some technologies to protect U.S. satellites from attack already exist, as a result of SDI research. The most basic is a two-stage missile that is launched from a high-flying F-15 fighter jet and homes in on enemy satellites that are threatening American spacecraft.
Many U.S. military satellites also have been ``hardened`` to protect components against radiation damage from nuclear explosions in space and outfitted with ``stealth`` technology to reduce their radar profiles. Others carry anti-jamming electronics and shutters to deflect enemy lasers. Sensitive surveillance equipment also has been placed on a number of non-military satellites in an effort to diversify and hide intelligence-gathering capability.
New technological efforts involve the development of advanced sensors and methods of propulsion that would enable American satellites to detect and evade pursuing killer satellites. In a strange hybrid of 19th and 21st century technologies, one space firm is experimenting with a satellite propulsion system that runs on steam.
But research is not only confined to purely defensive countermeasures. Next month, in what could be a major advance for space-based offensive weapons, NASA engineers at Dryden Flight Research Center in Edwards, Calif., will test a revolutionary unmanned aerial vehicle that someday may orbit the Earth and, upon command, strike targets elsewhere in space or anywhere on the globe.
Called the Hyper-X, the aerial vehicle has been described by Army sources as a cross between a ballistic missile and cruise missile. Equipped with stealth technology, the Hyper-X uses a new kind of air-breathing jet engine that produces speeds of up to Mach 10, or 7,200 mph at sea level, NASA says. At such hypersonic speeds, the Hyper-X could not be intercepted.
Loaded with a conventional warhead, the Hyper-X also would fall outside the 1967 Outer Space Treaty, which bans the deployment of nuclear weapons in space. In its first round of tests, the Hyper-X will be dropped from the wing of a high-flying B-52 bomber. But NASA officials say the new engine technology, known as scramjet — or supersonic combustion ramjets — eventually could open the way for a new generation of reusable space planes that can take off and land like conventional aircraft. In space, such spacecraft also could be used for anti-satellite operation.
#115 Posted by taqat-e-parvaaz on April 7, 2005 10:40:10 pm
Re: # 113
when an army gets as whooped as it did, its quite expected that it would conduct an investigation over what happened. no one in pakistan is brainwashed as to what happened in kargil. yes pakistan made some mistakes in 1971, but so did india. was there a report there? why did india intrude in a personal matter? but theres no mistakes about kargil and that pakistan army commandos were butt raping skinny indian soldiers. no one denies this. :P
and yes, here`s a piece that exemplifies impeccable indian character and hospitality. the indian mind at work. i would guess some shiv sena fundo/RSS gaywad did this....
Fan held for hurling stone at Pakistan team bus
JAMSHEDPUR, April 7: An Indian cricket fan has been arrested for throwing a stone at the Pakistani cricket team bus, shattering a window and narrowly missing captain Inzamamul Haq, an official said on Thursday.
The incident occurred on Wednesday afternoon after the Indian and Pakistani teams arrived at Ranchi airport on their way to Jamshedpur, where the third One-day International will be played on Saturday.
As the Pakistan team bus left the airport, a stone was hurled from the roadside where thousands had gathered to catch a glimpse of the cricketers, according to Pakistan team manager Salim Altaf.
``The stone broke the window pane and just missed Inzamam who was sitting nearby,`` Altaf said. ``I believe the man responsible has been arrested.`` Pakistan cancelled a scheduled practice session in Jamshedpur on Wednesday evening because of the incident, Altaf said.
``The boys were a bit shaken so Inzamam asked the team to take the rest of the day off,`` he said. ``I would like to believe it was a stray incident and we have not asked for any extra security. We would prefer to forget it and get on with the game.``
Pakistan trail 0-2 in the six-match one-day series after India won the opening two games in Cochin and Visakhapatnam. Pakistan`s first tour of India since 1999, which began on Feb 28, had gone off peacefully till Wednesday`s stone-throwing incident. -AFP
when an army gets as whooped as it did, its quite expected that it would conduct an investigation over what happened. no one in pakistan is brainwashed as to what happened in kargil. yes pakistan made some mistakes in 1971, but so did india. was there a report there? why did india intrude in a personal matter? but theres no mistakes about kargil and that pakistan army commandos were butt raping skinny indian soldiers. no one denies this. :P
and yes, here`s a piece that exemplifies impeccable indian character and hospitality. the indian mind at work. i would guess some shiv sena fundo/RSS gaywad did this....
Fan held for hurling stone at Pakistan team bus
JAMSHEDPUR, April 7: An Indian cricket fan has been arrested for throwing a stone at the Pakistani cricket team bus, shattering a window and narrowly missing captain Inzamamul Haq, an official said on Thursday.
The incident occurred on Wednesday afternoon after the Indian and Pakistani teams arrived at Ranchi airport on their way to Jamshedpur, where the third One-day International will be played on Saturday.
As the Pakistan team bus left the airport, a stone was hurled from the roadside where thousands had gathered to catch a glimpse of the cricketers, according to Pakistan team manager Salim Altaf.
``The stone broke the window pane and just missed Inzamam who was sitting nearby,`` Altaf said. ``I believe the man responsible has been arrested.`` Pakistan cancelled a scheduled practice session in Jamshedpur on Wednesday evening because of the incident, Altaf said.
``The boys were a bit shaken so Inzamam asked the team to take the rest of the day off,`` he said. ``I would like to believe it was a stray incident and we have not asked for any extra security. We would prefer to forget it and get on with the game.``
Pakistan trail 0-2 in the six-match one-day series after India won the opening two games in Cochin and Visakhapatnam. Pakistan`s first tour of India since 1999, which began on Feb 28, had gone off peacefully till Wednesday`s stone-throwing incident. -AFP
#116 Posted by taqat-e-parvaaz on April 7, 2005 10:55:46 pm
and finally, despite the below mentioned incident, the magnamity of the pakistani players and the pakistani nation....
Pak players visit cancer hospital, donate money
From our correspondent
JAMSHEDPUR: Pakistan captain Inzamam-ul-Haq and his teammates visited the Tata Cancer Hospital in Jamshedpur on Thursday and ended up feeling that there were so many more important things in life to deal with than the game of cricket.
``You go and meet these cancer stricken children and you wonder why all this fuss about a cricket series when there are so many other more important issues facing humanity, like finding a permanent cure for something tragic like cancer,`` Inzamam said in a pensive mood after the hour-long visit.
But for the young boys and girls in the children’s ward, just meeting the Pakistani cricketers was a dream come true for them and cheered them up for the day.
Inzamam was visibly moved when he was introduced to a five-year-old child who has been given 20 more days to live after suffering from blood cancer.
But the 14-year old Ismail also suffering from the same disease would not let go of Inzamam’s arm during a round of the hospital. ``Uncle, aap ko ghussa nahin karna chahiye,`` was the advice he gave to his hero whom he watched in quite a rage after geting run out in the second one-dayer in Visakhapatnam.
As the doctors and nurses taking the Pakistani cricketers around explained the various diseases and terminal illnesses afflicting the young children and older people, a number of the Pakistani players were clearly emotional and felt depressed.
``So innocent and vulnerable. It just makes you pray again and again and thank God for his blessings,`` wondered Danish Kaneria said after meeting with a 21-year-old girl who is in the early stages of throat cancer.
Shahid Afridi proved a favourite with most of the patients and he cheered things up when he recalled some funny incidents from his career for the benefit of the avid listeners.
Shahid, whose father himself is very ill and bed ridden, said visiting the hospital was the nicest thing the team could have done in India.
Inzamam, before leaving, had a quick impromptu meeting with some of his players and then announced a donation of Rs 100,000 for the hospital.
#117 Posted by harish_hyd on April 7, 2005 10:59:43 pm
#115 by taqat-e-parvaaz
[but theres no mistakes about kargil and that pakistan army commandos were butt raping skinny indian soldiers.]
Is that why Paki soldiers fled Kargil leaving behind the dead bodies of their fallen colleagues? Postmortem reports revealed that these soldiers had been eating grass because their supply lines had been cut off by the booming Bofors guns. And yeah, these guys didn`t get even veggie samosas to eat. Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha!
Looks like your ass got badly whooped, because you chose to ignore the piece says Pakistan had procured a discarded satellite and Musharraf proudly claimed that Pakistan was ahead of India in space technology. I`m sure all the beef has reduced the Paki`s brains to a piece of beef, which is why you guys couldn`t build a decent satellite while India launched its first satellite in 1981.
[but theres no mistakes about kargil and that pakistan army commandos were butt raping skinny indian soldiers.]
Is that why Paki soldiers fled Kargil leaving behind the dead bodies of their fallen colleagues? Postmortem reports revealed that these soldiers had been eating grass because their supply lines had been cut off by the booming Bofors guns. And yeah, these guys didn`t get even veggie samosas to eat. Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha!
Looks like your ass got badly whooped, because you chose to ignore the piece says Pakistan had procured a discarded satellite and Musharraf proudly claimed that Pakistan was ahead of India in space technology. I`m sure all the beef has reduced the Paki`s brains to a piece of beef, which is why you guys couldn`t build a decent satellite while India launched its first satellite in 1981.
#118 Posted by harish_hyd on April 7, 2005 11:28:31 pm
#115 by taqat-e-parvaaz
[yes pakistan made some mistakes in 1971, but so did india. was there a report there?]
Here is an excerpt from the Hamoodur Rahman report.
``This became necessary in view of the vehement assertions made before the Commission by a large number of respectable witnesses drawn from various sections of society, including highly placed and responsible Service Officers, to the effect that due to corruption arising out of the performance of Martial Law duties, lust for wine and women and greed for lands and houses, a large number of senior Army Officers, particularly those occupying the highest positions, had not only lost the will to fight but also the professional competence necessary for taking the vital and critical decisions demanded of them for the successful prosecution of the war. It was asserted by these witnesses that men given to a disreputable way of life could hardly be expected to lead the Pakistan Army to victory.``
No wonder the Indian Army has beaten the pulp out of your Army every time there was a war. Stick it in your pipe and smoke it, dumbass!
[yes pakistan made some mistakes in 1971, but so did india. was there a report there?]
Here is an excerpt from the Hamoodur Rahman report.
``This became necessary in view of the vehement assertions made before the Commission by a large number of respectable witnesses drawn from various sections of society, including highly placed and responsible Service Officers, to the effect that due to corruption arising out of the performance of Martial Law duties, lust for wine and women and greed for lands and houses, a large number of senior Army Officers, particularly those occupying the highest positions, had not only lost the will to fight but also the professional competence necessary for taking the vital and critical decisions demanded of them for the successful prosecution of the war. It was asserted by these witnesses that men given to a disreputable way of life could hardly be expected to lead the Pakistan Army to victory.``
No wonder the Indian Army has beaten the pulp out of your Army every time there was a war. Stick it in your pipe and smoke it, dumbass!
#119 Posted by vivek on April 7, 2005 11:46:35 pm
HisExcellency,
``This monumental blunder cost America considerable leverage with Pakistan. ``
What leverage has the USA lost in Pakistan? Pakistan even today cannot move an inch without american approval. You got even your nuclear weapons because america chose to look the other way. Had USA put pressure on Pakistan to hand over Xerox Khan to Netherlands when he ran from there, Pakistan would have quietly handed him over.
``This monumental blunder cost America considerable leverage with Pakistan. ``
What leverage has the USA lost in Pakistan? Pakistan even today cannot move an inch without american approval. You got even your nuclear weapons because america chose to look the other way. Had USA put pressure on Pakistan to hand over Xerox Khan to Netherlands when he ran from there, Pakistan would have quietly handed him over.
#120 Posted by cayenne on April 8, 2005 1:28:50 am
Indian Oil Corporation, is now the largest oil trading company in the Asia-pacific region, and this includes China and Japan!!!.Acc. to Forbes latest issue, Reliance industries is bigger than PepsiCo and Coke Incs.!!!.And, IOC, is but only one of the oil trading companies in India.It is only fitting that our armed forces reflect our corporate and national structure.Bigger and more powerful.India is now acquiring 400 T-90 tanks.Why worry about others and what they think??.We don`t need them as much as they may need us.Acc. to ``Pakistan This Week``, a weekly program on CNBC World, pakistan has approached indian officials to allow indian merchant naval vessels to use its` ports as a conduit for goods to north-western india , as pakistan ports are under utilized and pakistan does not have the funds or merchant navy to fully utilize their port facilities.Currently 65 % of Singapore and Colombo` s port revenues are from acting as a conduit for cargo to mainland India.
#121 Posted by tahmed32 on April 8, 2005 4:28:29 am
HisExcellency #108 first, and btw, your nick reminds me of the man who had the door to his house made only 4 feet high, so everyone visiting him was forced to bow down.
:-)
Anyway, sir, I am all for ensuring proper defense of Pakistan so indian ambitions at projecting regional power end where the Pakistan boundary beings, and the missile/nuke combination does this effectively. However, any penny spent beyond that is improper use of public funds. As long as a single child goes hungry in Pakistan, as long as a single sick person goes without medical treatment, it is contrary to the ``national interest`` for Pakistan to spend more than absolutely necessary for ensuring Pakistan`s defense. The national interest of Pakistan is the welfare and security of its people, not the acquisition of weapons it does not need for self-defense.
As for the long run that you mention, the only long run goal is peace and not unnecessary weapons.
:-)
Anyway, sir, I am all for ensuring proper defense of Pakistan so indian ambitions at projecting regional power end where the Pakistan boundary beings, and the missile/nuke combination does this effectively. However, any penny spent beyond that is improper use of public funds. As long as a single child goes hungry in Pakistan, as long as a single sick person goes without medical treatment, it is contrary to the ``national interest`` for Pakistan to spend more than absolutely necessary for ensuring Pakistan`s defense. The national interest of Pakistan is the welfare and security of its people, not the acquisition of weapons it does not need for self-defense.
As for the long run that you mention, the only long run goal is peace and not unnecessary weapons.
#122 Posted by dost_mittar on April 8, 2005 4:47:55 am
taqat-e-parvaaz#116:
Pakistan cricket team zindabad!
I am a regular volunteer at a place where I meet children suffering from cancer and their parents. I know how Inzamam and his team-mates felt. I also know how the kids felt as I know how the kids feel whenever any of the Ottawa Senators hockey player visits them.
Pakistan cricket team zindabad!
I am a regular volunteer at a place where I meet children suffering from cancer and their parents. I know how Inzamam and his team-mates felt. I also know how the kids felt as I know how the kids feel whenever any of the Ottawa Senators hockey player visits them.
#123 Posted by stuka on April 8, 2005 8:46:55 am
Taqat e Parvaz:
``no one in pakistan is brainwashed as to what happened in kargil.``
Yeah right. Most Pakistanis think they were winning a great victory and Clinton begged Sharif to get his troops out. Whatever!!!
``yes pakistan made some mistakes in 1971, but so did india. was there a report there? why did india intrude in a personal matter?``
Personal matter? What about the millions of refugees fleeing into India from East Pakistan? Was Yahya going to pay India for them? India announced the economic burden of the rerfugees for 10 months but the US under Nixon ignored it.
`` but theres no mistakes about kargil and that pakistan army commandos were butt raping skinny indian soldiers. ``
Your statement is half right...it is no secret that Pakistani troops (mainly Pathans) prefer butt raping due to latent homo tendencies. However, in Kargil, they never got close enough to Indians without getting killed. I believe they took solace with Sheep but you can confirm that with GHQ Rawalpindi. LOL!!!
``no one in pakistan is brainwashed as to what happened in kargil.``
Yeah right. Most Pakistanis think they were winning a great victory and Clinton begged Sharif to get his troops out. Whatever!!!
``yes pakistan made some mistakes in 1971, but so did india. was there a report there? why did india intrude in a personal matter?``
Personal matter? What about the millions of refugees fleeing into India from East Pakistan? Was Yahya going to pay India for them? India announced the economic burden of the rerfugees for 10 months but the US under Nixon ignored it.
`` but theres no mistakes about kargil and that pakistan army commandos were butt raping skinny indian soldiers. ``
Your statement is half right...it is no secret that Pakistani troops (mainly Pathans) prefer butt raping due to latent homo tendencies. However, in Kargil, they never got close enough to Indians without getting killed. I believe they took solace with Sheep but you can confirm that with GHQ Rawalpindi. LOL!!!
#124 Posted by KaalChakra on April 8, 2005 11:51:24 am
Our two ``ludicrously unrealistic`` visions:
To understand the military-political behavior of the Indian ``establishments,`` we should look at its modern `ludircously unrealistic`` vision: to be counted among the world`s great powers, with long reach of its influence, and to be in such a secure position that no other nation can impose her `unreasonable` will upon India.
In Pakistan`s case, until recently, it seemed to be as follows: to be the leader of a strong and united block of all Islamic nations, and to engage with all non Islamic countries, particularly with India, in the capacity of the leading representative of all of the earth`s muslims.
These arose as just random thoughts. Anyone who finds them ``ludicrously inappropriate`` is most welcome to say so.
To understand the military-political behavior of the Indian ``establishments,`` we should look at its modern `ludircously unrealistic`` vision: to be counted among the world`s great powers, with long reach of its influence, and to be in such a secure position that no other nation can impose her `unreasonable` will upon India.
In Pakistan`s case, until recently, it seemed to be as follows: to be the leader of a strong and united block of all Islamic nations, and to engage with all non Islamic countries, particularly with India, in the capacity of the leading representative of all of the earth`s muslims.
These arose as just random thoughts. Anyone who finds them ``ludicrously inappropriate`` is most welcome to say so.
#125 Posted by vivek on April 8, 2005 12:24:13 pm
kaalchakra,
Comments on your two visions:
India`s vision is not unrealistic if it is stretched for a period of 50 years. The doctrine is good in the sense that it assumes that nobody is India`s friend or enemy, and our threat over the years can come from anywhere. India should aim to become a great power but it will take a long time. However, they should working on it from now.
About Pakistan`s vision, I think they still consider the need for united block of islamic nations. How realistic they are is something for Pakistanis to judge. Its their country and they know it best.
Comments on your two visions:
India`s vision is not unrealistic if it is stretched for a period of 50 years. The doctrine is good in the sense that it assumes that nobody is India`s friend or enemy, and our threat over the years can come from anywhere. India should aim to become a great power but it will take a long time. However, they should working on it from now.
About Pakistan`s vision, I think they still consider the need for united block of islamic nations. How realistic they are is something for Pakistanis to judge. Its their country and they know it best.
#126 Posted by bbabu on April 8, 2005 12:46:43 pm
taqat-e-parvaaz #114
`` WASHINGTON — How damaging would a concerted attack on American satellite systems be? Pentagon officials cite the 1998 malfunction of the Galaxy IV satellite, which shut down 80 percent of pagers in the United States, as an example of the disruptions that could follow an attack. The episode was deemed an accident. China, however, made it known that future malfunctions might not be accidental. ``
It is one thing to make a threat. It is another thing to shut down a satellite.
`` In January, a two-year study by a panel of generals and civilian defense experts, including Donald Rumsfeld, the man who would become secretary of defense, laid out a host of emerging threats to U.S. satellites: ``
One of the goals of such studies is to generate govt funds for newer weapon systems
`` *Attacks on satellite ground stations: Such assaults could range from a physical attack on stations to computer hackers breaking into the networks that direct the satellites and receive their transmissions. ``
Try attacking a satellite ground station
`` *Jamming: Many countries, including Russia, China, Iraq, North Korea, Iran and Cuba, possess electronic jamming capabilities to disrupt satellite operations. Pentagon officials say the chances of such capability falling into the hands of terrorist groups or individuals has increased with the miniaturization of jamming devices. Russia now markets a hand-held system the size of a cigarette packet that can jam Global Positioning Satellite transmissions for 50 miles. A slightly larger version can block transmissions for 160 miles. Both could be used not only against U.S. ground forces but also against aircraft. ``
It does not take too long to whack a jammer
`` *Ground lasers: Directed at an orbiting satellite, these high-energy beams can be projected into space to dazzle or blind a satellite’s sensors and cameras. Some U.S. military satellites are equipped with shutters to guard against laser attack, but many are defenseless, the report said. ``
Be my guest. Try firing a laser into sky. Let alone hitting a satellite spinning at extremely high speed.
`` *Microsatellites and nanosatellites: With the miniaturization of space system technologies, these small satellites range between 200 and 20 pounds and even come in sizes as small as a compact disc player. Highly maneuverable and packed with super-sophisticated electronics, they can zoom up beside other satellites, inspect them with cameras and transmit images back to Earth. ``
Exactly how do you plan to transmit images back to earth ? What makes you think such transmissions cannot be jammed ?
`` Weaponized microsatellites loaded with rockets or lasers are expected to emerge in the coming years, capable of disrupting, disabling or destroying enemy satellites. Among the countries that possess microsatellite technology are the United States, Russia, China, Israel and Pakistan. ``
There is no documentation of micro-satellite technology being deployed. USA is still building its next generation of microsatellites for spying.
`` *Nuclear detonation: The explosion of even a small nuclear device in space would destroy or damage nearby satellites and leave lingering radiation that would halt new satellite operations for months. Pentagon officials say all that is needed for an attack like this is a rocket and simple nuclear device. Iraq, Iran, North Korea, Israel and Pakistan, along with the five declared nuclear states, already have missiles that can reach the necessary altitudes, and either possess or are believed to be developing nuclear weapons. ``
Why would India not be a nuclear state ? Did you selectively edit the article ?
`` WASHINGTON — How damaging would a concerted attack on American satellite systems be? Pentagon officials cite the 1998 malfunction of the Galaxy IV satellite, which shut down 80 percent of pagers in the United States, as an example of the disruptions that could follow an attack. The episode was deemed an accident. China, however, made it known that future malfunctions might not be accidental. ``
It is one thing to make a threat. It is another thing to shut down a satellite.
`` In January, a two-year study by a panel of generals and civilian defense experts, including Donald Rumsfeld, the man who would become secretary of defense, laid out a host of emerging threats to U.S. satellites: ``
One of the goals of such studies is to generate govt funds for newer weapon systems
`` *Attacks on satellite ground stations: Such assaults could range from a physical attack on stations to computer hackers breaking into the networks that direct the satellites and receive their transmissions. ``
Try attacking a satellite ground station
`` *Jamming: Many countries, including Russia, China, Iraq, North Korea, Iran and Cuba, possess electronic jamming capabilities to disrupt satellite operations. Pentagon officials say the chances of such capability falling into the hands of terrorist groups or individuals has increased with the miniaturization of jamming devices. Russia now markets a hand-held system the size of a cigarette packet that can jam Global Positioning Satellite transmissions for 50 miles. A slightly larger version can block transmissions for 160 miles. Both could be used not only against U.S. ground forces but also against aircraft. ``
It does not take too long to whack a jammer
`` *Ground lasers: Directed at an orbiting satellite, these high-energy beams can be projected into space to dazzle or blind a satellite’s sensors and cameras. Some U.S. military satellites are equipped with shutters to guard against laser attack, but many are defenseless, the report said. ``
Be my guest. Try firing a laser into sky. Let alone hitting a satellite spinning at extremely high speed.
`` *Microsatellites and nanosatellites: With the miniaturization of space system technologies, these small satellites range between 200 and 20 pounds and even come in sizes as small as a compact disc player. Highly maneuverable and packed with super-sophisticated electronics, they can zoom up beside other satellites, inspect them with cameras and transmit images back to Earth. ``
Exactly how do you plan to transmit images back to earth ? What makes you think such transmissions cannot be jammed ?
`` Weaponized microsatellites loaded with rockets or lasers are expected to emerge in the coming years, capable of disrupting, disabling or destroying enemy satellites. Among the countries that possess microsatellite technology are the United States, Russia, China, Israel and Pakistan. ``
There is no documentation of micro-satellite technology being deployed. USA is still building its next generation of microsatellites for spying.
`` *Nuclear detonation: The explosion of even a small nuclear device in space would destroy or damage nearby satellites and leave lingering radiation that would halt new satellite operations for months. Pentagon officials say all that is needed for an attack like this is a rocket and simple nuclear device. Iraq, Iran, North Korea, Israel and Pakistan, along with the five declared nuclear states, already have missiles that can reach the necessary altitudes, and either possess or are believed to be developing nuclear weapons. ``
Why would India not be a nuclear state ? Did you selectively edit the article ?
#127 Posted by bbabu on April 8, 2005 12:59:35 pm
HisExcellency #108
`` At best this is a necessary evil (i.e. in case of the US which must strengthen its military alliances with Pakistan and India in order to meet the emerging Chinese threat), and at worst it is a vainglorious attempt by an undemocratic regime to project military power ``
The primary Chinese threat is economic. Pakistan would be of marginal importance for both USA and China in economic matters.
`` America has learnt its lessons from the 1990s when US naively imposed nuclear sanctions on Pakistan. This monumental blunder cost America considerable leverage with Pakistan. And for what benefit? Pakistan still continued its nuclear program relentlessly. And this nuclear program was India-specific, not meant to be used against US or Israel. The F-16s sale [and the US silence over A.Q.Khan scandal] are just indications that US wants to develop a long-term relationship with Pakistan. ``
Here we go again.
What were US nuclear sanctions on pakistan in 1990 ?
1. Weapons embargo - F-16 spares parts. There are alternative suppliers for other military equipment like China and France
It is not like USA was selling weapons to India during the 1990s either. While Pakistani military was hurt by the Pressler amendment Indian military was suffering from financial problems and collapse in the Indo-Soviet weapons agreements.
2. $$$ - Given US budget deficit do not expect any goodies. Aid to Israel has falled in real terms over the years.
USA never cut off diplomatic relations, never cut off trade relations. USA buys 25% of your textile exports.
This whole hoopla over sanctions is something manufactured by the Pakistani establishment.
`` Pakistan`s economic situation is now qualitatively better than 1999. We can now afford these fighter jets `without eating grass`, affecting the various economic development programmes in progress or giving up the JF-17 project. These jets are a long-term investment.``
You are still begging for debt forgiveness and debt relief.
`` At best this is a necessary evil (i.e. in case of the US which must strengthen its military alliances with Pakistan and India in order to meet the emerging Chinese threat), and at worst it is a vainglorious attempt by an undemocratic regime to project military power ``
The primary Chinese threat is economic. Pakistan would be of marginal importance for both USA and China in economic matters.
`` America has learnt its lessons from the 1990s when US naively imposed nuclear sanctions on Pakistan. This monumental blunder cost America considerable leverage with Pakistan. And for what benefit? Pakistan still continued its nuclear program relentlessly. And this nuclear program was India-specific, not meant to be used against US or Israel. The F-16s sale [and the US silence over A.Q.Khan scandal] are just indications that US wants to develop a long-term relationship with Pakistan. ``
Here we go again.
What were US nuclear sanctions on pakistan in 1990 ?
1. Weapons embargo - F-16 spares parts. There are alternative suppliers for other military equipment like China and France
It is not like USA was selling weapons to India during the 1990s either. While Pakistani military was hurt by the Pressler amendment Indian military was suffering from financial problems and collapse in the Indo-Soviet weapons agreements.
2. $$$ - Given US budget deficit do not expect any goodies. Aid to Israel has falled in real terms over the years.
USA never cut off diplomatic relations, never cut off trade relations. USA buys 25% of your textile exports.
This whole hoopla over sanctions is something manufactured by the Pakistani establishment.
`` Pakistan`s economic situation is now qualitatively better than 1999. We can now afford these fighter jets `without eating grass`, affecting the various economic development programmes in progress or giving up the JF-17 project. These jets are a long-term investment.``
You are still begging for debt forgiveness and debt relief.
#128 Posted by arjun_m on April 8, 2005 1:40:41 pm
#123 by stuka on April 8, 2005 8:46am PT
Taqat e Parvaz:
``no one in pakistan is brainwashed as to what happened in kargil.``
You need brains to be brainwashed...
t-e-p is probably in his teens...he doesn`t understand anything he`s pasting...check out the details of what he thinks is super-cool IC technology....
Taqat e Parvaz:
``no one in pakistan is brainwashed as to what happened in kargil.``
You need brains to be brainwashed...
t-e-p is probably in his teens...he doesn`t understand anything he`s pasting...check out the details of what he thinks is super-cool IC technology....
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