F-16s to Pakistan—Why Now?

What part of ``no redrawing of borders`` isn`t clear to the pakis?

India keeps Indian Kashmir, Pakistan keeps paki Kashmir...china keeps the part it was gifted by Pakistan....

No redrawing maps, Natwar tells Pakistan

Staff Report

NEW DELHI: India has told Pakistan that it is open to all options that they offer except redrawing the map of India and having a second partition.

“Our views are quite clear. We are open to all options that they offer, except redrawing the map of India and having a second partition,” External Affairs Minister Natwar Singh told BBC World.

re: vivek # 125

Count me in on everything jingoistic, even if it is all dreamy. he he

All peoples must dream very big.

US offers to sell India advanced weaponry

We intend to redraw the strategic map of Indo-US relations, say top US officials g Natwar to visit Washington on 12th

By Iftikhar Gilani

NEW DELHI: The United States has offered India an assortment of advanced weapons to balance its decision to sell F-16 fighter aircrafts to Pakistan. The weaponry offered includes Patriot PaC II anti-missile systems, network-centric early warning and battlefield control and command systems.

During US Secretary of State Condoleeza Rice’s visit here last month, the two sides agreed to consolidate defence and energy ties and conclude the second phase of the Next Step in Strategic Partnership (NSSP), which encompasses high technology trade.

“We intend to re-draw the strategic map of Indo-US relations,” said senior US Embassy officials, adding that the two countries would engage more closely in the coming weeks. External Affairs Minister Natwar Singh will visit Washington on April 12, which will be followed by US Pacific Command Commander-in-Chief Admiral William J Fallone’s first visit here.

A high-level US delegation visited India recently and made presentations about the Patriot PaC II systems to Indian defence officials, which was a follow-up of three Indian observers attending the missile shield system’s live demonstration trials in Texas, said officials.

The officials said US aviation majors Lockheed Martin and Boeing would bid for India’s plan to buy 126 multi-role combat aircraft and were hopeful of getting the contract. They said that US armed forces had proposed to give a new dimension to military-to-military engagements between the two countries by company-level joint exercises in California in June and taking these manoeuvres to battalion-level first and then to brigade-level by 2007.

Indian Air Force’s wish to engage in joint manoeuvres with F-16s and early warning aircraft would be realised soon, said US officials, referring to the planned joint exercises in November over the Kalaikunda base in West Bengal.

Asserting the US was committed to “serious energy dialogue” with India, including on civilian use of nuclear energy, the officials said this issue would be boosted with Prime Minister Manmohan Singh and Petroleum Minister Mani Shankar Aiyer’s upcoming visit to Washington. “India and US are both energy deficit countries and a close cooperation in this field is viewed by us as mutually advantageous,” they said.

Declaring that US viewed its strategic engagement with India in a global rather than regional context, US officials said an indication of this was that defence sales between the two countries had shot up to 200 million US dollars in 2002 from zero in 2000.

Deputy Chairman of the Planning Commission Montek Singh Ahluwalia and Foreign Secretary Shyam Saran will accompany Natwar on his visit.

His delegation includes Department of Atomic Energy’s Strategic Planning Group Director RB Grover, Indian Space Research Organisation Scientific Secretary V Sundararamaiah and External Affairs Ministry Joint Secretary (Americas) S Jaishankar.

Re: # 131
yeah keep dreaming veggie samosa. man, a lack of protein really can screw up someones brain. i can believe you buffoons still believe the US wants to be your `strategic partner.` pakistan can match whatever india can throw at it. its only going to get worse from here on out. advanced F-16s, JF-17s armed with swedish data links, an italian radar and BVR missiles, not to mention the deadly chinese J-10, which the US navy has admitted is more potent than its own super hornet. go ahead, tell your bhangee government to buy F-16s and F-18s. you`ll be falling right into place.....

Re: # 123

keep deluding yourself. such a common indian inferiority complex shield. why dont you go research the scandal that erupted over coffins in the indian army. you army couldnt even keep up! SSG commandos were so deep in your territory and were causing such heavy damage, the bhindians had to buy coffins from other places! haha. but of course since you`re an indian like shri arjun, you have an inferiority complex when it comes to pakistan!

yummmmmyyyy..........400 indian soldiers put of their shame for serving the indian army! they must be thanking pakistan now!! hahahaa.....

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/1703495.stm


Coffin scandal rages in India
Protesters in Delhi demand resignation of Fernandes
Kashmir is a hugely sensitive issue in India
The Indian parliament was adjourned on Wednesday for the second day running as the opposition demanded the resignation of Defence Minister George Fernandes over an army coffin scandal.

Both houses of parliament were adjourned over the affair which centres on a report that the government paid vastly inflated sums for coffins for soldiers killed in Kashmir in 1999.


Nobody will forgive those involved for having purchased coffins that had to be subsequently rejected (HAHAHAHAHAAAA)

Indian state radio

Not only were the 500 aluminium coffins overpriced, but the US-based supplier failed to meet Indian specifications. (THATS WHAT YOU GET FOR TRUSTING YOUR `STRATEGIC PARTNER`)

Soldiers killed fighting separatists in Indian-administered Kashmir are regarded as martyrs by many Indians and opposition deputies shouted down the government with cries of ``coffin thieves``.

``Nobody will forgive those involved for having purchased coffins that had to be subsequently rejected,`` Indian state radio commented on Wednesday.

Mr Fernandes only returned as defence minister in October after being forced out of office over a scandal over weapons purchases.

He has refused to resign, saying he has asked the US company for a refund

Public anger

More than 400 Indian soldiers were killed in the 1999 conflict which began when Islamic militants infiltrated the Kargil sector of Kashmir from Pakistan.

A report in The Times of India newspaper says the Comptroller and Auditor General found that the government had paid an American company $2,500 for each of the 500 coffins.

Indian troops
The fighting in Kashmir continues with one militant reported killed on Wednesday
But five years earlier, it had only paid $172 per coffin.

Moreover, many of the coffins were never used, being rejected as too heavy.

``What is really shocking is that the coffins of the martyrs were bought at an exorbitant price,`` said the chief whip of the opposition Congress Party, Pryaranjan Dasmunshi.

``They have no right to stay in office, until the prime minister explains to the house.``

For Indian radio, the anger of opposition deputies was a genuine reflection of public feeling:

``The mood of the parliamentarians amply reflected the shock and anger faced by each and every Indian on these sordid revelations.``

Ministry`s reply

The Defence Ministry says it had to buy aluminium coffins so that the bodies of Indian soldiers could be sent home in a dignified manner.

It said that an order for 500 coffins was made with the company Buitron and Baize to be delivered in consignments.

When the first batch of coffins was delivered, it was discovered to be sub-standard and that led to the cancellation of the order for the remaining 350.

The Ministry of Defence says the company was in breach of contract and is asking for some of its money back.

#121 by tahmed32

``As long as a single child goes hungry in Pakistan, as long as a single sick person goes without medical treatment, it is contrary to the ``national interest`` for Pakistan to spend more than absolutely necessary for ensuring Pakistan`s defense``

You do have a point there. A significant segment of Pakistan intelligentsia subscribes to this view. But there is another significant counter-argument to your point: Governments are responsible for defense as well as education/health. Govt should spend most of its budget on infrastructure, mega projects, defense and debt servicing instead of crowding out private investment in education/health. Govt should regulate the education/health sectors and give tax incentives.

``As for the long run that you mention, the only long run goal is peace and not unnecessary weapons``

Sometimes weapons ensure peace and weakness encourages wars like 1971.

re: taqat-e-parvaaz
Poem:
``Taqat-e-parvaaz
akl-e-naasaaz
kar raha hai chok mein
behisaab bakwaas

Taqat-e-parvaaz
chor, luccha aur jaal-saaz
kameena-e-gaandu-e-gulzar
kar raha hai chowk mein
badtameezi behizaab``
My own feeble attempt at some Urdu poetry.
Guys, feel free to join in.
Sridhar

rshridhar,
Don`t waste your time and energy on a loony.

rshridhar,
t-e-p is one of the modern day Goebbels that Pakistan seems to have in significant numbers. Their philosophy is simple - bullshit a 1000 times, and ultimately they start believing their own crap.

#133 by taqat-e-parvaaz on April 8, 2005 9:56pm PT



you army couldnt even keep up! SSG commandos were so deep in your territory and were causing such heavy damage,


And the nazis were outside leningrad...what`s your point?

bottom line...India controls the Kargil heights...as it controls siachen...you don`t have squat...

you tried a reverse siachen and got your head handed to you...which is why nawaz rushed uninvited to DC, on the 4th of july....

only a dumb paki like you will believe that the PM of the country that was winning would make such a desperate plea...

keep chanting the slogan ``Kashmir banega Pakistan``....we`ll see if it does you any good....

#138 by vivek on April 9, 2005 10:15am PT



t-e-p is one of the modern day Goebbels that Pakistan seems to have in significant numbers


The idea of propaganda isn`t to fool youself....

conjuring up myths to keep the average paki would be propaganda....this is just self-delusion...it`s common among pakis, from the average jihadi like t-e-p to the prez/dictator...remember him telling abdul paki how pakiland was ahead of india in satellite technology because they rented a defective hughes satellite..that`s not propaganda...pakis actually believe that shit...just like captain clueless wasn`t BSing when he told everyone to wear a t-shirt with a paki flag if you wanted to be safe in the US post-9/11...he actually believes that....

arjun #140,
yep, like the 70000 people supposed to be killed in kashmir. Some deluded Pakistani collected the statistics in his dream, and today seems like all of Pakistani press believes it.

Folks,

Just thinking out aloud....There is one more angle to this that you guys have not considered.

The US does not like Iran-Pakistan-India pipeline being built. They don`t like it because thay do not want Iran to prosper.

Now, I don`t like it either but that is because I would hate to hand a weapon to country if it was filled with nutcases like t-e-p. However, if the country was filled with arrogant fools like Manto instead, I may be able to work together for mutual benefit. I may not like him personally, but I am sure I will find him to be honorable in his business dealings and will be able to have a decent working relationship with him. Also, please note that the Baglihar dam would have offered the necessay counter to the I-P-I running through Pakistan. Both these would have prevented the other from doing something stupid and was very self stabilizing.

Therefore, the IPI pipeline could have been mutually beneficial to all three countries Iran, Pakistan and India. But more so to Pakistan than most. Iran and India can continue thir relationship via LNG tankers as they have been doing or build an undersea pipeline bypassing Pakistan completely when it becomes technologically as well as economically viable.

The IPI pipeline was being considered to bring fuel to run Powerplants. There are other ways to increase our power producing capabilities....I would also like India to start building 1000 MW reactors and raise our nuke power producing capacity to 25,000 MW by 2012. At the rate we are going, we have mastered 550 MW reactor building, the first commercial one went critical in Trombay this year. We have several 220 MW reactors in operation. We are getting two 1000 MW Russian reactors by next year. This will raise our Nuke power producing capacity to about 5000 MW. We have a looooong way to go and the US knows that. So they are offering civilian Nuke Power reactors AND technology transfer for basically abandoning the I-P-I pipeline for now. But based on our prior relationship with the US, I am highly sceptical that they would indeed provide the kind of help we need in the Civilian Nuke Technology arena.

On the other hand, this deal that the US is offering to India will deal Pakistan a double whammy. Not only will there be a loss of revenue from the IPI pipeline, but they will also lose the leverage that it would have given them to counter Baghlihar.

This deal the US is offering is too good to be true. India should seriously consider this option.

Re: # 136

funny coming from a bony veggie samosa eater as yourself. the problem with all you guys is that you`ve always underestimated pakistan. and quite frankly, once you do that, you`ve not only lost the battle, you`ve lost the war. you and your boyfriends vivek and shri arjun cannot stand the concept of a pakistan. it ruins your crazy hindutva policies of an `akhand bharat.` to pursue this dream, india will go to any lengths, even thinking itself a superpower capable of producing jet engines, all of which eventually fall out of the air like birdshit into the shit hole we all call india! so go ahead, make your lame attempts at urdu poetry.

#140
as i`ve already said, i am not sure who you think is deluded. its not pakistan that dreams itself a superpower when it has 300 million poor people lying naked on the streets of calcutta and bihar. its not pakistan that thinks it can produce tanks and then waste hundreds of millions of rupees in state taxes, and then stupidly try to make a jet engine for its pathetic LCA and nearly kill the pilot inside of it because the engine blew up!! perhaps you should buy a dictionary shri arjun and look up `deluded.` your george bush complex of using words you clearly do not know is not the best of ideas.

CoolAL,
The benefits of the pipeline are a bit overrated. The price coated is so high that it was reported that most companies including Reliance are unwilling to pay. If the pipeline prospects are still alive, then its due to the stupid pertroleum minister of ours.