A Space of One’s Own

Talking about women cycling, and that being an issue a must-watch is Marzieh Meshkini`s (iranian) film The Day I Became A Woman. An eloquent enunciation of the quest for identity that millions of women undertake the worldover, and what it means to become a woman. The film tells the story of a little girl, a mrried woman and an old lady and their ``becoming`` at different points in their life. From the first family of Iranian cinema, the Mahkmalbafs, this is a fantastic piece of work .

Re: # 131

I realize, by your own admission, intellectual debates are tiring for you.

Thank you for proving my points :-)~

#130 by ntsyed,

Syed Uncle, dont throw your muslim morals on me. You do all kinds of dirty things in your home but dont talk about it. But when you see others talk you cringe in horror. Why? Because you are civil, civilized men. My foot!

For vulgarity, go check the verbal diarrhoea in your previous posts. How civil you were to your fellow muslim tahmed!

As for liberty and women, tribal women in Chota Nagpur are more liberal than Hillary Clinton. They manage their large families, their tribes and they have no scruples going topless. They make love with abandon and at will. Of course they dont know arabic so in your book they are ideal cases for convertion. Indeed, lots of missionaries are busy teaching them christian morals and bible.

Those who dont know individual freedom and dont respect others freedom talk about stuff like `our women` and `your women`. If you all respect each other`s women-whatever it means-then what`s Beena writing in this article hanh? Your Indian colleagues will tell you that women are much safer (and freer) in Mumbai than in predominantly muslim Karachi. Being free is more important than being safe. With freedom comes responsibility and you take precautions for your own safety. With no freedom your women are insecure and feel vulnerable, and depend on you for their safety, and that`s why your talk of `our women`, `your women` as if they are commodities. Subjugating women is civilised. Wow!

``A prostitute is the most liberal woman``

When you`re walking home dead of the night and a woman comes up, winks at you and says, ``aata kya?``, you recoil. She`s dirt to you. Woman with no morals. But if you set aside your sense of morality you`ll see that it`s only individual freedom theory at work. She`s just another free, confident, liberal woman on the job. And it takes guts to be in a profession thats counter to the prevailing social values.

``As apparent from you ID..``

Oh please!! Dont judge people from their ids for christ`s sake. I know appearances matter very much among muslims. Bearded men in salwars are religious. A modern, westernised woman is a whore, even if she`s your nephew`s wife. I know all this.

I love being a cynic, so more often than not I just kickass and move on. I`m not this articulate usually. It`s tiring.

Cheers

Re: # 129

vagabond78

As apparent from your ID, based on what I hear about Mumbai from my Indian colleagues here, it may be a big factor in nourishing your general contempt for civility as well as muddling the definitions of ``woman`` and ``liberal`` and how to use them properly in the same sentence, as demonstrated below (again):

a) A prostitue is the most liberal woman.
and
b) Most liberal woman are prostitutes.``

I was hoping Billy Boy`s predicament in #117 would remove that confusion for you, but...alas! May be you`ve yet to transition from being a delinquent juvenile to a civilized man.

Nevertheless, the remainder of your vulgarity is forgiven due to the fact that your women deserve more respect than you care offer them. However, don`t expect others to be as generous if you continue to leave them vulnerable on the Internet (or life in general) with your disrespect for other women. At that point you simply won`t matter then any more than you do now...which is practically nothing.

Otherwise, what you consider lymphosarcoma of the Josh and Hosh would give you perpetual and incurable nightmare with the famous dialogue ``tera kya banay ga Kaaliye?`` echoing inside your head for the rest of your life.

Temporal, tahmed,

Im mumbai he`d be called Abdul Hatela. Jiska sarak gaya hai.

Syed Uncle,

Your mother, sisters, sisters-in-law, mothers of your children, and your daughters, daughters-in-law, nieces, and ya your nephews` wives Christ!, all are very nice women. tahmed is crazy to think they could remind you of sex. I`m sure no woman can make you think of sex. In medical terms it`s called lymphosarcoma of the Josh and Hosh - incurable disease of the sexless.

Cheers

tahmed:

read #121

relax and do not bother to reply:)

frothing can cause demise...have mercy

RE: #126

tahmed

scroll through the entire index and see for yourself, as others have seen it already. While you`re at it, cut and paste all you want...that is if you`ve recovered from selective dyslexia.

Before you do that though, answer this: what were to trying say but didn`t have the guts to say: ``...Quran was sent to end - `` in #110?

Quran was sent to end what?

Note of caution:
As Sajal eloquently quoted the ahadith from an Arab (pbuh) and the Arabic text in the Quran, our women are revered and not to be publicly displayed under the guise of false freedom to appease your western masters.

May be your moderate version of arab loathing Islam allows you to be a silent spectator when women are ogled and hooted by the low-lives. But where I come from, be prepared to have your sex changed on the spot if you remotely disrespect women - even implicitly, or wantonly accuse people like me of considering them as mere sex objects.

Rest assured, if you were to say to my face (that I consider my women as mere sex objects), Allah (whose book you distort and slander His beloved slaves with impunity) would be the Only One to save you from me.

Next time watch what you say, otherwise insha Allah just the froth will obliterate you.

ntsyed #125 so i see you have wiped the foam off of your mouth, and are trying to write like a normal man again. too late. as omar khayyam said:

The Moving Finger writes; and, having writ,
Moves on: nor all your Piety nor Wit
Shall lure it back to cancel half a Line,
Nor all your Tears wash out a Word of it

Also, I see that despite your changes in style, you remain constant in your deceipt. as for your accusations to me, i am careful never to write anything on chowk that i would not say to a man`s face - or in front of anyone anywhere. so, you can lie all you want, but i challenge you to cut and paste anything i wrote to back your lies.

Re: # 124

# 122:
````it does appear that this particular abdul hate is by now foaming at the mouth thus displaying, when confronted, his true form.``

Which true form are you talking about?

that not once I insulted your beliefs?

that not once I insulted who/what you follow?

In spite of the fact that you kept insulting me, my phonetics, my arabic and everything about me, I never reciprocated equally until you attempted to dehumanize my women by laying it on me. Did you think no one would notice how you camouflage your diabolic insinuations behind seemingly common words in the English language?

After initiating this discussion with me, have you found answers to any of my questions put to you?

You couldn`t, could you? That`s why you resorted to petty personal remarks by humoring arabic pronounciations and slandering revered scholars and accusing me of dehumanizing women.

And even after your last baseless accusation, which as I mentioned earlier include my mother, sisters, wife, daughter, etc, as well as YOUR women, I neither implied nor said anything about your women and how you treat them. Did you think I couldn`t... just becuase I happen to believe in my ARAB Prophet (pbuh) and his companions (ra) and promote true Islam? If I was a crazy mullah you take me for, you wouldn`t know where to hide your hide and that of your women.

You need to choose your words carefully. Otherwise you`ll never know when they`ll blow up in your face unexpectedly as you`ve recently experienced.

ntsyed: abdul hate trying to be humorous. but the foam is still dripping from your mouth.

Re: #121, 122

ATTENTION EVERYONE!

It appears that two unknown ``Khaet ki`` pesticidal accidents for ``Moolies``, aka temporal and tahmed32, consider the pimples on the soothing source of their carnal needs - they refer to as their bums - as sprouting of the remaining fragments of their brains; since following their skulls every other part of their bodies has rejected these dead cells.

Their aggravated affliction seems to stem from the fact that they have been unable to produce legitimate counter arguments to substantiate their claims. Hence they resorted to arab loathing and name calling. When their vain tactics were sucessfully deflected to blow up in their faces, they seem to be reveling in each other`s intellectual excessive and frequent evacuation of watery feces (usually indicating gastrointestinal distress or disorder and commonly known as diarrhoea) to disguise their bewilderment at such unexpected humiliation.

Imagine that... moolies suffering from gastrointestinal distress or disorder. No wonder their intellectual flatulence is intolerable.

Please beware that they are brainless, thus can be dangerous.... only to themselves though. Just don`t be around when they implode due to excessive production of lethal gases within

t #121: it does appear that this particular abdul hate is by now foaming at the mouth thus displaying, when confronted, his true form. So much for his arab-speak (i meant arab-thpeak) and mumbo-jumbo about traditional mullahs vs his kind of new-improved mullahs.

aap ki daad ka shookriyaa, warna bandaa kis khaet ki mooli hai. ;-)

tahmed:

wah wah! i was going to say encore, but nts posted it twice already! maashallah, subanallah! kya zabaan paee hay in ayatollah nay!

over the years have you seen how abdul-hates start frothing when confronted?...i think you should cease and desist... the poor follow is seethig and frothing...

rgds

t

Re: # 118

From the get go you reminded me of an old verse I used to use on my opponents in grade school, I just held off on it in respect which you lost with your dumbass attitude:

dil to kerta hai tujhey cheere k leera(n) ker doon
phir ye kehta hoon k bachcha hai paresha(n) hoga

You wanna talk filth?

Tell me where did the following come from:

``...it is no wonder that you seek to reduce the status of women from equal human beings to that of mere sex objects.``

Does it ring any bells in the hollow space between your ears?

Now tell me, where did that filth come from, me or you?

If I were to stoop to your level of idiocy, I could`ve easily said things that would make you commit suicide by swallowing your own stupid tongue.

Just because your pathetic existence couldn`t come up with a counter argument, how dare you make an unsubstantiated accusation that I consider women mere sex objects?

Did you ever stop to think that I may have women in my life that I hold dearer than my own?

Did you think I`d consider my mother, sisters, the mother of my children, and my daughter mere sex objects?

You Stupid Punk for a baboon`s butt!

Who gave you that right? Your diploma in English language... you dead poet`s maggot filled rotten nut!

You`re lucky I ain`t present in the romantic Lahore you refer to in your sh*t for poetry... otherwise you`d make headlines: Punk Pseudo Gora Boy Slapped Silly In The Middle of Town

Kal ka chhokra sala...``tankian bhernay lageen to aaj is duffer ki toontian behnay lageen``

By now should have learned the most important lesson of your life: don`t argue when you can`t handle speechlessness due to your low IQ.

Re: # 118

From the get go you reminded me of an old verse I used to use on my opponents in grade school, I just held off on it in respect which you lost with your dumbass attitude:

dil to kerta hai tujhey cheere k leera(n) ker doon
phir ye kehta hoon k bachcha hai paresha(n) hoga

You wanna talk filth?

Tell me where did the following come from:

``...it is no wonder that you seek to reduce the status of women from equal human beings to that of mere sex objects.``

Does it ring any bells in the hollow space between your ears?

Now tell me, where did that filth come from, me or you?

If I were to stoop to your level of idiocy, I could`ve easily said things that would make you commit suicide by swallowing your own stupid tongue.

Just because your pathetic existence couldn`t come up with a counter argument, how dare you make an unsubstantiated accusation that I consider women mere sex objects?

Did you ever stop to think that I may have women in my life that I hold dearer than my own?

Did you think I`d consider my mother, sisters, the mother of my children, and my daughter mere sex objects?

You Stupid Punk for a baboon`s butt!

Who gave you that right? Your diploma in English language... you dead poet`s maggot filled rotten nut!

You`re lucky I ain`t present in the romantic Lahore you refer to in your sh*t for poetry... otherwise you`d make headlines: Punk Pseudo Gora Boy Slapped Silly In The Middle of Town

Kal ka chhokra sala...``tankian bhernay lageen to aaj is duffer ki toontian behnay lageen``

By now should have learned the most important lesson of your life: don`t argue when you can`t handle speechlessness due to your low IQ.

ntsyed: So, you are reduced from making references to religious teachings to spouting filth and making cheap remarks. As I said in #111, I wouldnt expect my posts on chowk to undo a lifetime of twisted teaching. With this latest post, you have demonstrated in the environment of filth in which you received your lifetime of twisted teachings. You have just demonstrated the true face of the failures in Pakistan who seek to cover up their failures behind a beard and bow to their pagan priests and repeat their pagan mumbo-jumbo.

Re: #113

``There`s a diff in saying:

a) A prostitue is the most liberal woman.
and
b) Most liberal woman are prostitutes.``

ALL RISE ... FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA MR. VAGABOND78, FORMERLY KNOWN AS WILLIAM J. CLINTON, IS IN THE COURTROOM FOR HIS RENOWNED HAIR-SPLITTING.

{But wait Bubba boy.... Hillary is supposed to be the most liberal woman, representing most liberal women of the USA, if not the whole hotdanged world...ho` ema gonna explain thayt to her...you`re screwed Billy Boy, and not the way it was with Hillary, and Monica, and others....sighhhhhhh}

``If you dont know the difference then dont expose your ignorance by asking what it is.``

Uh Oh...watch out now, he`s going for the fifth!

``However if you do, then you`re not worthy of a back-handed slap you fully deserve.``

{that`s right Billy Boy, show `em you still got some guts, which everyone now thinks you lost in the diarrhoea induced by this guy`s pickin` up on your fumble}

``This is boring.``
But of course.... losing is not fun, especially for the one who`s out of ammo... tch tch tch

I`d suggest `bottoms up` to you (to ease your agony of defeat), but then you may raise yours and your exacerbated diarrhoea may hit the fan.

yuckkkkkkkk... we don`t want that. NOPE, we sure don`t!


Hey echoboom, temporal, MJ....thanks guys.... I`m having so much fun with your formatting tips. :-)~

Re: #111

What`s this? I thought you had had enough?!?

Anyway... don`t beat yourself up so much over your shaken confidence. Quickly mount your ass, lest the ass mounts you.

But then again chhuri kharboozay pe giray ya kharbooza chhuri pe, nateeja to wohi ho ga... ha haaaaaaaaaaaaaa

``Coming back to the subject of this article, it is no wonder that you seek to reduce the status of women from equal human beings to that of mere sex objects.``

These women you refer to are the women of my Prophet (pbuh), women of his companions (ra), my mother, sisters, sisters-in-law, mothers of my children, and my daughters, daughters-in-law, nieces, nephews wives and daughters...to name just a few.

So quit your sanctimonious spillage of bovine-fecal-matter-for-brains before your mother is forced to put you back in her womb to complete the rest of the 6 months of your gestation for your protection before someone gives you a back-handed slap to snap you out of it, you insult to stupidity!

OR, you could try the following simple advice: GET YOUR HEAD OUT OF YOUR BACKSIDE TO RELIEVE YOUR SEVERE CRANIUM-RECTALITIS! Talk about a sod lost in his own darkness and stink...for cryin` out loud.

temporal, could you please douse his lit behind or offer him some dead sea water to put out the fire on his lit behind? thanks t :-)

re: #110

your para 3:
I`m sorry to have shaken your confidence; rest assured it was inadvertant. Perhaps you should sue your educators for leaving you so vulnerable...tch tch tch ;-)~

your para 4:
On behalf of Late Maudoodi and his ilk, I thank you for the honors you bestow on them so generously. I`m sure they must be grateful to you, wherever they may be.

your para 5:
``You would do well to shed your mischievous ways and take heed fromt he Quranic words...``

Since you`ve also guided me so wisely, O enlightened one, please let me know for future references where I may find you on the Day of Judgement when Allah asks me ``where are those men you looked towards for guidance??``

your para 6:
``...the Quran says that you must reject even that which your parents have taught you if your judgement (not that of some other man) tells you it is wrong``

My dilemma, O great Yada, sorry Yoda!
My parents and ``some other man (pbuh)`` have told me to tolerate your arrogance and insolence, which by your advice I should reject and beat the living daylights out of you. That sounds like fun... ;-)~ Wouldn`t you agree echo?

your para 7:
UH OH...it seems you`ve studiously caught me, you naughty you... hehehe. But what I`m to do? You say I`m not an Arab, which means I must not know Arabic language...so being an illiterate bud-tameez Urdu medium Pakistani, and your vehement rejection of believing the likes of Maudoodi (ra), my alleged Arabic deficiency prohibits me to understand the Quran. Thus, I`m at your mercy to translate the simple Arabic text of the Quran to me please... O Great Yoda.

your para 8:
``...I dont expect you to agree with me.``
Are we making assumptions again? Did we already forget what happened the last time (ASS U not ME)? lol

And I am done wasting time with you.``
Awwww....we haven`t even kissed yet! Are you quiting on me already mate? How would you earn your reward from Allah if you don`t take me to your planet... which one is it again...pluto or is it outside the Milkyway?

``But reflect on these things, and some day you may realize that it is your duty to use your OWN HEAD and YOUR OWN EYES to read the plain and simple message in the Quran,
But again O great yODA, since you`ve deemed me a non-Arab, how could I understand the Arabic script of the Quran ``using my OWN HEAD and MY OWN EYES to read the plain and simple message in the Quran``?

Somebody help me... I`m in the daaak heah.... I`m follin` heah... I`m follin` heah....Help me O great Yoda!

rather than to slavishly follow some other man claims to be the message of God.``
hmm.... which man might you be referring to? Please be specific with illiterate Pakistani mullah like me, lest I kweschun u-aar inThuLLiguns unthal aThernithy. (for non-Urdu mediums: I kweschun u-aar inThuLLijuns unthal aThernithy = I question your intelligence until eternity)

``Since these ``learned`` ones will be nowhere to be seen when you face the music on the Judgement Day (assuming you really believe in that). Those ``learned ones`` will be too busy hopping in the fires of hell themselves.``

But you`ll come for my help, right? now that I`m about to take your advice? Promise? Pretty promise? Please please please

I thing I must ask you, do you claim There is not god but Allah alone, or say the other second half of the pledge (Mohammad is His messenger) too?

Do you believe he (peace be upon him) is the last of the Prophets, as Allah claims in the Quran?

If the answers to the above are firm NO (2/2), then what do you say in the call for prayer - ADHAN - before hayya a-las-salah?

Similarly, if the answer to the first 2 are firm NO, then in tashahhud what do you say instead of ``as-salaam o`alaika ayyohun nabi...``, and is your at-taHyat followed by durood or not?

Wallahi ya tiflilitfaal, I miss my 5year old bundle of joy so bad.

Re: #108

``Rest assured if you were an arab, i would know that from the nature of posts. So dont trying to be what you are not. As for childish humor - for someone who changes the name Usman to call it Uthman because that is how the Arabs would pronounce it, you my friend are the one who is the comedian.``

I must say I`m impressed by your self-proclaimed ability to discern one`s ethnicity from the nature of his/her posts. I will recommend your tutors to graduate you to primary school, as they`ve finally made a breakthrough :-)~

The arabs thank you for your subtle loathing, and I thank you for the compliment and the title of comedian, for only you have found it where it isn`t.

I think you`d prefer Ciao, but since you claim to be a Muslim, I`m obligated to say

M`as-salaam

#107 by ntsyed

There`s a diff in saying:

a) A prostitue is the most liberal woman.
and
b) Most liberal woman are prostitutes.

If you dont know the difference then dont expose your ignorance by asking what it is.

However if you do, then you`re not worthy of a back-handed slap you fully deserve.

This is boring.

tahmed #111

jazakallah!

further to #110: and one more thing - you refer to sattar. And in the same post you give exactly the same argument he gave me (before i stopped wasting time arguing with him too): i.e. that the individual cannot be expected to understand the difference between right and wrong, and that is why needs other men for guidance. You people are all the same - ahmedis, sunnis, shias, traditional mullahs, modern mullahs, and ultra-modern new-improved mullahs): you seek to replace the uplifting message of the Quran that places responsibility on the individual (along with the empowerment), with the shameless attempts to denigrate the individual and shake his confidence in his own abilities and have him look towards other men (like a slave) for guidance. Coming back to the subject of this article, it is no wonder that you seek to reduce the status of women from equal human beings to that of mere sex objects.

You people are rightly cursed in this world by the rest of humanity, and you and your ``learned`` ones will face God`s wrath in the next.

ntsyed #95 I read the remainder of your post (i.e. the part after you were trying to explain your attempts at sounding like an arab).

You write ``Be fair to yourself my friend; do not overestimate your common sense when it comes to Quran. ..Its poetry could not be understood, when most of us find it difficult to understand Meer and Poe`s work without thinking about the context, implicit, and explicit.``

These are the arguments for a priesthood class that seeks shake the confidence of the individual in his/her own God-given ability to think, and to thus make him/her a follower of the supposedly ``learned`` individual.

First, I find your ``learned`` individuals (like maudoodi) to be the most irrational, ignorant and jahil among men. Their attitudes are firmly rooted in the pre-Islamic era that the Quran was sent to end - and their knowledge is limited to what other fools among them have written.

Second, even if they were truly enlightened men, EVEN the Quran reserves its most severe language for exactly these men, and for those (like you) who seek to belittle the Quranic injunctions that place responsibility on the individual to use his/her God-given abilities to see and to think. You would do well to shed your mischievous ways and take heed fromt he Quranic words which say that on the Judgement Day God will ask you where are those men you looked towards for guidance??

Third, I realize my writing this post is not going to change what you have learnt over a lifetime. All I can says is, that the responsibility remains with you - the Quran says that you must reject even that which your parents have taught you if your judgement (not that of some other man) tells you it is wrong.

Fourth, you have studiously ignored the things from the Quran that I pointed out to you (the part about this being an ``Arabic Quran``, for example). I am not suprised. You are a follower of other men, not of the Quran.

In conclusion, I dont expect you to agree with me. And I am done wasting time with you. But reflect on these things, and some day you may realize that it is your duty to use your OWN HEAD and YOUR OWN EYES to read the plain and simple message in the Quran, rather than to slavishly follow some other man claims to be the message of God. Since these ``learned`` ones will be nowhere to be seen when you face the music on the Judgement Day (assuming you really believe in that). Those ``learned ones`` will be too busy hopping in the fires of hell themselves.

Re: # 107

Correction: line 2 - ``...across the liberal women face...`` should be read as ``...across all the liberal women`s face...``

regards.

ntsyed #103 Rest assured if you were an arab, i would know that from the nature of posts. So dont trying to be what you are not. As for childish humor - for someone who changes the name Usman to call it Uthman because that is how the Arabs would pronounce it, you my friend are the one who is the comedian.

Re: #102

vagabond78: ``A prostitute is the most liberal woman.``

Oh my dear God.... you couldn`t deliver a back-handed slap right across the liberal women face any harder, could you my friend?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turn_the_other_cheek

At the link above, read the section on the Non-Violence figurative interpretation of ``turn the other cheek`` as per Christian faith.

Excerpt: ``They note that at the time of Jesus, striking someone deemed to be of a lower class with the back of the hand was used to assert authority and dominance. Thus, they argue, by turning the other cheek the persecuted is in effect demanding equality``

I doubt, though, the liberal ladies here are ready to offer the other cheek yet. :-)~

re: #100

``you are not a quack (colloq: for a doc)...yet you are quacking now....so dear sir, happy quacking:)``


well.... some of us do manage to find something to smile about in the most sordid of incidents.

Re: #99

CC,

I`m grateful to you for your generous acceptance of my most humble apology.

Whether anyone of a certain group visits this site or not is irrelevant. Such remarks and mentality are inexcusable and displease Allah, Who is more of a concern to me than anyone, as He created all as equals and only He reserves the right to judge us.

Having said that, I do not even despise the Joe Hates Abdul Hates either. Notwithstanding their general intelligence, I am just baffled by their unintelligent remarks and questions in these matters, which forces me not to anticipate intelligent answers/responses from them and continue offering my help (to the best of my abilities) to make use of their God given gift.

Thank you again!

Take care.

Re: #97

dear kaalchakra,

For a bloke like me, brilliance is only a reflection of information stored in the memory after varying degrees of processing. Whereas, the ``revelatory/inductive flash of complete brilliance`` is reserved for the Prophets (peace be upon them) only.

``Basically, what logical process and pathway did you adopt to reach this destination?``

I read the Quran and exegesis by Ibn Katheer - all renowned scholars of Islam have agreed on his work to be the best to date.

Additionally, I read other Islamic books/articles, news, history, scientific journals/articles whenever I get a chance.

There are books by Muslim and non-Muslim researchers over centuries who have recorded the scientific breakthroughs relevant to the Quranic revelations on scientific phenomena.

In fact, I read one such article yesterday on Embryonic Development as described in the Quran - succinct to perfection by Almighty Allah. I`m nothing compared to the scientists who were boggled by the fact that such a phenomenon was recorded 1400 years ago. You can read the article at the following address:

http://www.islam-guide.com/frm-ch1-1-a.htm

Simply put; reading, rational processing of the information, observation of our daily lives at macro and micro levels with all that exists and occurs around us, and most importantly the courage to accept the truth brings anyone and everyone to the same conclusions. The minimum outcome of compulsive, inherited, or socially coerced (by peers) acceptance/rejection is disappointment. Thus my persistent request to all is to study it, instead of prodding other fallible humans like me for answers, before accepting or rejecting it.

You should give it a try if you seek the absolute truth. You don`t have anything to lose, even if your conclusion differs from mine.

Best of luck!

Re: #96

dear ahmed, jazak-Allah-khair

I`m thoroughly amused by your assumptions, more so than your humor:

1. ``...but you are not an Arab...`` How do you know that?

2. ``nor does pronouncing a man`s name correctly have anything to do with the Quran.`` When did I indicate that?

What I did say that producing the correct phonetics helps one get used to language, understand it better, and avoid confusion in terms of meanings. But I suppose if you were a Pakistani you`d rather kweschan my Arabic fonatuks in Pakistani faeshun dan kweschaning it in proper English. Because otherwise it would indicate that one`s trying to be a secular with his/her attempt to speak the sorry language as it should be spoken.

Anyway, unsubstantiated assumptions are more likely to produce erroneous results, such as:

1. ``So, I can only conclude that you suffer from some speech impediment (such as a lisp) that leads you to call Usman Uthman.``

2. ``The only other possibility is that you are so superficial as to think that you need to speak like an Arab in order to be a muslim - in which case I assume you will be referring to Baa Baa Black Sheep as Pa Pa Plack Theep.``

I`m just curious about your age, becuase I always expect such things from my five year old hyper-active kindergartner. Or do you need to consult your mum on the query?

Considering the above, these two may make an ASS of you U instead of ME. But I`m sure you realized that before got to this paragraFFF. :-)~

#81 by ntsyed

[Be brave about it and dehumanize the women into satisfying men’s needs? I wonder what liberal women will have to say about {prostitution}]
Syed Uncle,

A prostitute is the most liberal woman. What you expect her to say? She`ll only complain that you`re robbing her means of livelyhood.

[It is truly sad to see the enlightened people of chowk, apparently with “larger canvas of thought”, unable to successfully counter the 1400 year arguments my ilk and I present here beyond cursing the few misguided mullahs.]

We wont be able to counter your arguments sir. Our wells are dark and dimlit with manmade light. While in your 1400 yr old well you get that divine monochromatic rays of Islam.

Re: # 100

Temp, I am someone who respects other peoples views. This world is full of people that have their own views that may not be the same as mine. I am not on a ``crusade`` ;) to change peoples views.

Do remember that the two of us differ on Mushy, but then again it`s your view and i have to respect it the same way i hope that you respect mine.

I took NTS post on it`s merit that he did apologize in good faith. If it was not in good faith then he looses his creditability and would be treated like the gujju`s of chowk. (Which no sane human would like :)

I have not followed Kaalachakra so don`t know if it is Ralph or not...... but then you would know.... ;)

#93 by ntsyed:

miracles don`t cease!

you are not a quack (colloq: for a doc)...yet you are quacking now....so dear sir, happy quacking:)


c2:

something for you to ponder...do not be misled by the crocodilish apologies;)

what did he think i said to him in #41 right after he posted that hateful barrage in #41 ...without highlighting that `term of endearment` and other unwarranted verbal assaults?...what took him so long?...

also

our dear friend ralph (before that rational faith) is back as kaalchakra spreading love

rgds

t

NTS,

Apology accepted. You should be more careful with your words in the future. You may not be aware that there are desi ``Karanta`s`` that visit this website as well.

You remind me of a certain ``Ralph`` who visited this site quite often a few months ago. However he was the one who went after Muslims and spoke his mind. What i liked about him was that he never used foul lanugage when answering to his post. Many used profanity against him but it never seemed to rattle him.

Anyway go one with your battle and don`t give up.

92 boom box,

Why beat around the bush? My question still remains unanswered..... What was your point in post 89? Does it make any sense?

BTW read the last chapter of the Bible and you`ll find the answer. The answer to all your I-logs are in the last chapter. You will find many websites..... you will even find one in Urdu.

re: syed saheb # 95

I am curious to know the process by which you arrived at the conclusions you have so confidently listed:

---

(Quran`s) science could not be fathomed when after 2 millenniums of his birth we`ve just learned that Mary`s conception of her son - `Isa (pbuh) - is a biological possibility in almost every single woman. Read the breakthrough by Japaneses and Korean scientist in asexual reproduction in mammals as of Feb/March 2004.

(Quran) contains entire history of this universe from the day Allah created it, and it contains the entire future.

Allah could have put each and every detail in the book and handed it to us without any Prophet or angel as intermediary.

But then, one cannot even guess how long it would take one to read just one chapter, let alone the whole book; especially the ones who find it cumbersome to read the 30 chapters.

Not only is it about the visible, but it also describes the invisible that we cannot understand without the (a) authentic Sunnah of the Prophet-pbuh, and (b) scholars (in that order) who devoted their lifetimes to make it easy for us to understand.

There are many more facets to this miracle. For your sake, I hope it`s beginning to sink in.

---

I mean, did you find these remarkable ideas in the Quran itself? Did someone tell you about all these miraculous wonders? You read them somewhere (Assad?)? Or did these thought occur to you in a revelatory/inductive flash of complete brilliance?

Basically, what logical process and pathway did you adopt to reach this destination?

Thanks.

ntsyed: #95 Thanks for your response.

I realize that `th` is a letter in the Arabic script (as I made clear), but you are not an Arab nor am I an Arab (not that arabs are not nice people, in fact i am just coming from a community thing where a very nice arab lady showed us some very nice stuff artwork from damascus). Nor are there any Arabs on this board who would be confused if you referred to this gentleman Usman by his proper, nor does pronouncing a man`s name correctly have anything to do with the Quran.

So, I can only conclude that you suffer from some speech impediment (such as a lisp) that leads you to call Usman Uthman. The only other possibility is that you are so superficial as to think that you need to speak like an Arab in order to be a muslim - in which case I assume you will be referring to Baa Baa Black Sheep as Pa Pa Plack Theep.

I too have some minor time commitments, and so will end this post - but will inthallah (I mean inshallah) be back to respond to the remainder of your post.

Re: #87

tahmed

The `th` is the proper pronounciation for the fourth letter in the Arabic script, which differentiates it from `seen` and `saud` phonetics. Otherwise, one could mistake the meanings of the Quran while listening to its recitation. I hope the explanation will not impede your cosmopolitan growth.

Now that you`ve correctly guessed my shortage of time, I will pass on a round of Twisters by waiving the explanation inquiry on the following:

**...you, being a very intelligent man, have taken the alternative route of IMPLICITLY rejecting Quranic injunctions.**

I sincerely hope you`re not suffering from Sattar syndrome; his affliction seems to be in incorrigibly advanced stages. I`ve referred his case to Allah, for He is the Only One with all the cures.

Mullahs:
Come to think of it, it`s not the mullahs who rule Pakistan. It`s ruled by our ignorance of our own roots. If our forefathers had taught us Islam properly (not just 5 daily prayers and one time nazra without tajweed and understanding), we wouldn`t have allowed the 2-bit mullahs to hijack true Islam. Nor would we have allowed an opportunity to our disoriented, who prefer ``seculars``, to distort and/or demand elimination of Islam.

Quran does make things very simple; theoratically as well as pratically. The only trick to understand the simplicity. Typing may be very simple to you now, but think of the time when you started typing. Was it so simple then too? I don`t know about you, but most people I know wonder why did the inventors have to place the main keys where they have. We simply do not care to think how much research it may have taken some individual or group to arrange the letters in the manner we see today.

Anyway, Scholars like Salman Nadvi and Justice Uthmani are not merely translators of the Quran. Now, solve the following riddle to understand the concept:

a translator is to a

---

as what a mechanic is to an engineer

Now ask yourself the following question:
If a person wishes to become a doctor, do you think: he/she can become one by watching a few doctors while they treated patients; by reading the entire medical curriculum without attending the lectures and labs and residencies and house jobs; one, on his/her own, could understand everything there`s to be understood in order to know in the profession of medicine?

Be fair to yourself my friend; do not overestimate your common sense when it comes to Quran.

Its poetry could not be understood, when most of us find it difficult to understand Meer and Poe`s work without thinking about the context, implicit, and explicit.

Its science could not be fathomed when after 2 millenniums of his birth we`ve just learned that Mary`s conception of her son - `Isa (pbuh) - is a biological possibility in almost every single woman. Read the breakthrough by Japaneses and Korean scientist in asexual reproduction in mammals as of Feb/March 2004.

It contains entire history of this universe from the day Allah created it, and it contains the entire future. Allah could have put each and every detail in the book and handed it to us without any Prophet or angel as intermediary. But then, one cannot even guess how long it would take one to read just one chapter, let alone the whole book; especially the ones who find it cumbersome to read the 30 chapters.

Not only is it about the visible, but it also describes the invisible that we cannot understand without the (a) authentic Sunnah of the Prophet-pbuh, and (b) scholars (in that order) who devoted their lifetimes to make it easy for us to understand.

There are many more facets to this miracle. For your sake, I hope it`s beginning to sink in.

Please do yourself a favor and don`t trivialize it. To understand it properly, seek guidance from Allah, for it only comes when sought, and respect the people who have devoted their lives for our future in this world and hereafter.

Simplicity, if misinterpreted and misunderstood can be fatally dangerous.

take care

Re: #90

CC

Being a father of a young daughter, I simply could not control my anger when I heard about the incident.

I do apologize for my mistake. It is inexcusable! I`ll be more than ready to accept any punishment meted out for that uncalled for offence.

I hope Allah will accept my repentance, forgive me, and keep me from repeating it in future.
Also I hope you and everyone here will forgive my imperfection.

Furthermore, I`m indebted to you for making me aware of it. Thank you!

re: #88:

I`m glad to be able to help you [b]prove[/b] something :)

At least you`re not a duck [0] anymore, but you`re still a quack... quack quack :)

Cheers

91:doublecc
What does this mean?

---

Perhaps it means that I am not as nice as some mistakenly think so. Perhaps I am, but not so religious as some give me the credit for it.

Maybe I am a diehard Marxist-Leninnist who has found a new Trojan horse.

lot of may-bes there, no?

The profanity should have been a clear giveaway. You still ask.

Ask Kalachakra, he has a very sharp and clear mind about such issues.


or write to David Lamb , the Los Angeles reporter; because in post# 89 the reporting is his.
The missing `` `` marks (my error) notwithstanding, but pretty obvious.

89 Boom box,

What`s your point here? What does religion have to do with safety. Speak to brown people that have worked in Saudi and they will tell you how safe they felt when the stayed there. Read one worlds posts in UP and you`ll get the picture.

I still cannot figure out what you are trying to do. Your i-logs are filled with non-muslims converting to Islam..... it seems that you are a religious person but at the same time you don`t shy away from profanity. What does this mean?

BTW the Iranian examples that you have posted below are nice to see..... however Iran is a Shia country and my observation of this particular sect of Islam has been very refreshing.

NTS,

Re: 40....The dumb-ass secular five bribed a janitor (probably a karanti)
Why couldn`t a wog be the janitor? Why a karanta? Since you are a wog yourself you think that no wog would be able to do something like this? Guy, i had resepct for you but it seems that you not only are a reigious fanatic but also a racist.

David Lamb, the Los Angeles reporter, who wrote the bestselling book The Africans, while living and travelling for four years in Africa echoes this point. He states that one of the best comparisons between a Christian and Muslim country in Africa was the safety of the streets within the larger cities. He felt that he would never let his wife walk alone at night, and sometimes even during the day in most of the larger African Christian cities. Yet, he had no fear of permitting his wife to wander freely within any of the larger African Muslim cities.

Judy and I, during our 5 years in Senegal, a country of 7 million, of which 92% of the population claimed to be Muslim, don`t recall of ever having to fear for the safety of our women. Not once were they ever ``cat-called,`` and in the entire time there, we remember hearing of only one rape in our town of 350,000 individuals. On this point alone, Islam has proved to far excel Christianity with its care and discipline towards women.

So how do we respond to these views and findings as Christians?

nts# 82 and 83:

i repeat what i informed you kindly on another board

and this again confirms that you are delusional

t

ntsyed sahib #86 Thank you for your kind humor sir. With respect to the origin of the 32, you should know that 73 minus 32 equals 41. And 41, as you must know sir, is the answer to all questions, and the meaning of 73 must be obvious to a scholar like you. Or you may wish to consult Maulana Uthmani (btw, do you have a speech impediment sir, that you are unable to say Usman and must say Uthman like the ``s`` challenged arbi people?) or some similar saintly expert for the significance of this number.

Anway, coming to the substance (knowing you have limited time), your fear of being struck by a thunderbolt if you explicitly rejected the Quranic injunctions is certainly well-founded. Therefore you, being a very intelligent man, have taken the alternative route of IMPLICITLY rejecting Quranic injunctions. Very clever sir, if I may say so. God has been fooled (and it is not even April 1 anymore) and does not realize that you are venerating the Quran while rejecting it. Like the Queen of England, the Quran reigns in isolated splendor as a figurehead but, like the government ministers that they wish to become, the mullahs rule.

More specifically, you write ``in order to bring back true Islam in Pakistan, scholars like Maulana Salman Nadvi, Justice Taqi Uthmani, etc. are needed, who did not issue fatawa on the fly, like some current traditional mullahs do. ``. But may I humbly ask sir, why the Quran is wrong in saying that it is a book to make things simple? Why did God make the mistake of translating the message into arbi (as the Quran says, it is merely the ``arabic Quran``, written for a people who are not literate in languages) when, per your formula, they could simply have asked some scholar like Justice Uthman to translate it from hebrew into explain it to them in plain words for every situation??

Re: #61 & #85

Dear tahmed32

Is the number 32 representative of your teeth or the springs you`ve enjoyed thus far. Just kidding.

As for your post #61, which refers to mine (numbered #59)... I`m sorry but for the most part you`re mistaking someone else`s words as mine.

The words you quote in #61 are not mine except for the first two, even when I rechecked the #59.

Anyway, to answer your questions: I agree with you that the term ``traditional mullah`` implies the presence of ``modern/enlightened mullahs``. I apologize for the confusion, but my reference is to the mullahs who are more indoctrinated by their regional culture/traditions than Islam, which in my view renders them unreliable, to say the least. Furthermore, mullah is a generic term, to me at least, which applies to anyone with a beard and shalwar above his ankles.

Having said that, in order to bring back true Islam in Pakistan, scholars like Maulana Salman Nadvi, Justice Taqi Uthmani, etc. are needed, who did not issue fatawa on the fly, like some current traditional mullahs do. The former remain(ed) in constant search to learn more and more about Islam and Allah and the Prophet (PBUH). Unfortunately, thus far people like him have been sidelined by the Pakistani drunkards for political elites in collusion with the farangi masters.

I hope to be struck by a thunderbolt from Allah before I ever claim that authentic Sunnah overrides Quranic verses (m`az Allah) in any way. What I do maintain is that the Sunnah (authenticly reported ones) are perfectly synchronized with Quran - in effect mirror each other, because the Prophet (PBUH) only did what Allah ordered him to do. Allah even testifies to that effect in the Quran.

(m`az Allah) Quran is not wrong or incomplete anywhere. However, there are a lot verses which only refer to certain situations instead of going into their details. Therefore one must read the authentic sunnah and exegesis to understand the background and context. For example, the slandering of `Aisha (ra); the Prophet (PBUH)`s marriage to Dhaid Bin Haritha (ra)`s divorcee; reference to Abu Bakar (ra); Allah`s testimony on behalf Jibraeel (as)`s when the disbelievers were accusing the Prophet (PBUH) with sorcery, not to forget His testimony for the Prophet (PBUH)`s honesty etc.

Allah could have revealed the whole Quran to any xyz, but the purpose of Sunnah and Allah`s repeated stress in the Quran to obey Him and His messenger (PBUH) is for people to see the practical application of Allah`s orders and observance of things He permitted or prohibited for us.

Anyway, I think there was a miscommunication somewhere, and I hope my response answers the questions you directed at me.

take care

ntsyed: while realizing your time is precious, i await your response to my post #61. I await your explanation of why the Quran is wrong when it makes it clear that there is no room for mullahs of any kind in islam - regardless of whether they are traditional (the ones of whom you have assured us you are no fan of) or the modern or ultra-modern or even the super-duper-ultra-modern mullahs (which presumably are the ones of whom you are a fan).

Why, sir, is the Quran wrong when it condemns intermediaries between man and God (thus cutting off the livelihood and political ambitions of the mullahs. Even mullahs wearing emperor-like robes like mullah fazloo.)??

Re. #53

hamid,

``...... actually i have not seen ms mirza play and have not seen her bosom, but i have heard about it ! ......... but i can assure you that people don`t watch women`s tennis to look at their legs unless they are perverts ...........in any case, there is nothing wrong with noticing or even admiring an attractive member of the opposite sex as long as you don`t stare, make lewd remarks or reach out and touch ............``

Mrs ntsyed wishes to know what/how would you feel and do if you came upon someone talking about mrs hamid or your daughters as you heard about sania?

Furthermore, what could/can/do you do to stop someone if he stared, made lewd comments or reached out and touched at your ladies?

She hopes you still have some red blood running through your veins and arteries... and so do I. Otherwise, we think you`re in the best place you could ever be. Chowk may not be for me, but Pakistan may not be for you anymore, especially if me and my ilk succeed in our efforts.

But you never answered, what would you do if the US reinstated military draft and you and your family members (including ladies) were called in? Run up to Canada or down to Mexico?

debajo de México llega a ser el país caliente para gringos también.

et le Canada garde disrespecting oncle sam sur les problèmes stratégiques

.....you know that, right?

Let me know if you wish to come to Pak, my mrs will keep some black tents handy for your ladies and I`ll keep some shar`i shalwars and jinnah caps handy for you and your lads. Plus we`ll reserve a well decorated yellow minibus for you and your entourage... give y`all a round of the wonderful city, especially our laloo khet and drop you off at sohrab goath for the connecting buses to the panchayat country. Trains will be too conspicuous for you to travel in.

Why would I do that? because, in spite of you, I like you.. and why is that?... because subh ka bhoola shaam ko ghar ajaye to usay bhoola nahi kehtay, pola kertay hain.

re: #82

my mistake Pseudo Joe Hate! It appears to be working now.

You can still keep the title!

re: #71

sorry meray pseudo goray sarkar,

I had not changed anything in the settings, and i don`t see anything to be changed either. it still appears deleted.

Re: #41

I thank you for the honor. Although, as I understand you had earned the title of ``Psuedo Joe Hate`` pretty early yourself. Please accept my belated congratulations on an astounding achievement. All the best to you in your futile endeavors.

re: #s77 & 78

Dear MJ,
Your compliment is appreciated.

Actually I have noticed an absence of ntsyedanis here, and this is not okay. The simple reason appears to be the hostilities hurled at the few ntsyeds by the few moronic seculars, which encourages former to keep to themselves. Please note that you are not included in the moronic secular owing to your civilized communication.

My seeming regression is due to lack of sane and durable “progressive” solutions available to our contemporary problems as offered by the secular bunch here.

And my obsession is just as good or bad as my opponents’ fixation of the western values that are coming apart at seams, if one cares to look at the trajectory and its expected projectile.

It is truly sad to see the enlightened people of chowk, apparently with “larger canvas of thought”, unable to successfully counter the 1400 year arguments my ilk and I present here beyond cursing the few misguided mullahs.

I wonder why? Could it be because the 1400 year old well I live in is far less deep and dark than my opponents seem to be in? The solution that comes to their mind is to eliminate all barriers and leave everything and everyone vulnerable to all ills brought in by the meager amount of air they mistake as freedom – “forget the precautions, we’ll think of the remedy when the illness appears in my backyard” approach.

I suppose ‘common sense’ here means acquiescing to the anti-Muslim pressures to revolt against Islam?

Large canvas: as in as large as the west and its crumbling societies within a couple of centuries at best? Or is it a “large canvas” of pragmatism to take the chicken exit by employing quick fixes, rather than do something lasting to alleviate/eliminate the problems?

As disturbed as Bush may be due to loss of leadership status for all the democratic countries of the world, let alone Europe and Canada, I think it’s about time USA was relieved of this self-assumed responsibility.

As for turmoil in Canada, perhaps you haven’t looked under the snow covered ice. Case in point, if you can understand: African east coast was too far away to be affected by the tsunami in Indonesia/Sri Lanka region; Canada is far too closer to the US than Africa is to Indonesia.

Most European countries have their own similar problems if you care to follow the news. It’s only a matter of time before all these volcanoes erupt.

Freedom is a very valuable gift from Allah. We pay high price for it, thus it has to be preserved and protected before the corrupt internal and external elements exploit and take it away from us; as is the case with Pakistan. I enjoy my freedom as long as I don’t have to pay for it with severe humiliation later on. The bad aspects of anything have to be minimized first with prevention and only then the remedies can be effective. I hope that tickles your common sense?

”the downside to islamic peculiar view of women is that women can`t live a normal life. you seem to ignore the fact that she is given a fully functional brain and a body. objectively speaking, they are more than 80% similar to men.”

Far from it my friend, you’re way too much indoctrinated by the fundamentally flawed westerns notions of Islam and women. What you’ve expressed here may be applicable to the current politicized versions of Islam in Pakistan – peeri-faqiri, karokari, and all other such innovations in Islam; not true Islam.

It’s a misconception that true Islam discourages women to live normally; Islam never bans women from education and employment, business, leadership, etc. To the contrary, true Islam encourages them to be active members of the society. The only requirement is to remain within the Islamic guidelines just as men must. Just because anyone gets a degree and a job doesn’t mean he/she has earned the right to flout Islamic values by rendering them outdated. The current dilemma is that men in Pakistan don’t follow those guidelines as they should, therefore one can’t expect women to do it either.

Further responses to your responses to my allegations (actually I didn’t allege anything, there are derived from official governmental and non-governmental American statistics):

I can go one by one, but all of them will have the same response: you’ve failed to identify and/or justify the causes for those ills in the continental USA. Recognizing the fact that all countries have these ills, as Pakistanis we’re only concerned about Pakistan and desperately search for a solution.

Mind you, there isn’t a single country in my knowledge with comprehensive shari’a law, even if it is purportedly a Muslim country (refer to my article for the reason). KSA, which has more of it than any other country, enjoys far fewer incidents of those ills, due to the preventive and severe remedial laws of Shari’a. The statistics are present in the CIA and other intelligence agencies’ reports.

**>>> *increasing statistics of extramarital affairs, still a major cause of divorce
it`s only your morality that views it as a taboo. don`t forget that animals always have extramerial sex and nobody lays an eyebrow. oh, are you going to allege me for comparing humans with animals? let me accept it before you say so, who else are we? animals with one extra dimension!**

I hope you weren’t “tun” (inebriated) while formulating this response, because, I’m sorry but, this has got to be the sorriest response I’ve ever seen in this context.

**>>> *a steady high rate of STD including AIDS
do you think it is from god? what if animals are threatenned with AIDs? will god send some prophet for them?**

You were tun, weren’t you? LOL

Come on MJ, you’re much more intelligent than this.

And then this…
>>> *the thriving prostitution
so? it`s a human need, let`s be brave about it.
Be brave about it and dehumanize the women into satisfying men’s needs? I wonder what liberal women will have to say about it
.
Now tell, me how many had you had before you hammered these responses on the keyboard, ‘cause they seem more than just a Freudian slip?

**after writing this long futile post, I think I can feel the two horns which have appeared on my head. it`s not a good thing for me to touch ntsyed lengths in my posts, knowing that there is no outcome to it. **

On the contrary, there is an outcome: as you noted yourself, you can feel two horns appearing on your head. I tend to believe someone else is forcing them on there. At least you’re beginning to acknowledge their presence. How you remove them is your choice.

The point is that Pakistan needs a major overhaul as it nears civil war, and everyone will have to make some adjustments in the process. Now we have only two options to avert that catastrophe: (a) install service packs and grafts from deteriorating western societies, or (b) implement true Islamic laws (not the current perverted versions of it). In either case, people will have to implement the laws upon themselves to help the government implement it at the macro level. You can’t expect the law to help you much if you leave your valuables exposed and vulnerable.

The first solution seems easier, but it comes with little security of any kind, because not all people of the society can be as enlightened as you – the intellectual and sexual gradation will always be there. Because of this weakness the society will have to waste its cycles on applying SPs and firefighting, instead of advancing the nation into the firm and secure future. Secondly, the hodgepodge of many ideals and systems will eliminate standards by which laws could be formulated and enforced. We have seen the results of enforcing non-Shari’a law on Muslim population; it’s been just as futile as mixing oil and water.

On the other hand, the true Islamic system first of all installs precautions in the society, even if it seems oppressive. The precautions reduce the illnesses, thus the cost of remedies is alleviated as well. It is a misperception that Islam does not allow women outside the home. The women who cover themselves according to Shari’a are more at ease outside because it allows them to be less conscious about uncivilized men (which every community has its share of) staring at their physique – “freedom of mind versus freedom of dressing” concept. Which one is more important? Take your pick. The true Islamic laws go far beyond the western concept of security and privacy.

Islam is about responsibility at every level – from individuals to the rulers. The western/non-muslim concepts of such responsibilities have either failed or failing rapidly… just look at the world around you.

The only problem is that the westernized Pakistanis abroad and their ilk back home are not willing to make any changes in their lifestyles for the greater good of the country, whereas the majority of Pakistanis, including women, desire implementation of true Islam in all aspects of life because there’s more hope in security than in vulnerability of openness. The simple reason being (and I know this is going to burn you up again) true Islam offers equal rights and proper protection to women more than any system in the world.

We can ill afford to omit the human element – hormones, natural selection, and the innate need to procreate (which emerges as “fun” in our brains) – from the equation of freedom. To ensure our individual and collective freedom, we must use these powerful elements of our existence wisely. Since a lot of us can not learn to do it on our own, the law should keep them in check until they learn to control themselves and see its benefits. Because the basic premise of laws is to keep the law-abiding decent people safe.

I wish you would think about these aspects carefully instead of compulsively responding to them off the top of your head, because my dear friend, I have chewed, digested, and excreted all the your lame reasons you present here.

As for…
** …no wonder why chowk rejected your article. actually this is evident from your posts which are regressive and obsessive. they are simply boring because you don`t like to stick to common sense, …**

there goes chowk’s credibility as purveyor of “freedom of speech” to allow diverse ideas and opinions; which proves my suspicion of it being nothing more than a propaganda mouthpiece for the anti-Islam camp.

Regards,

Re. #74
shukran jazeelun ya ukhti! Perhaps I should you count you amongst the ones not hostile to me.

m`as-salaama

A glimpse into FUNDAMENTALIST, MULLAH-RULED, SHARIAH-LAW, HUDOOD-ORDINANCE ENFORCED nation

news.bbc.co.uk

THE ISLAMIC REPUBLIC OF IRAN!

The Raushan-khayal KanjaRRs from the secular/munaafique/libseral/human should know where the best education & learning is acquired--Madressas! Look at the leaders--fluent & scholars an farsi, arabie, angraizee, franceesee, german, these mullahs are also doctors, lawyers and engineers from Harvard & Sorborne ( piece of Jalaibee--if you got your early education at a Madressa--Like our own Jinnah[Sind Madressa-tul-Islam& Gandhi--Islami Maktab & hindu Paatshaala)

---

Iran salutes female `Schumacher`
By Natalia Antelava
BBC correspondent in Tehran

Laleh Seddigh behind the wheel
Seddigh has been given the title of Iran`s best female racing driver

Women car racers in Iran have been awarded prizes for the first time in the history of the Islamic republic.

At a racing event for women organised by Iran`s automobile federation, there was one woman who many in Iran believe could outperform me
news.bbc.co.uk

syed sahib,

forgot to say, no wonder why chowk rejected your article. actually this is evident from your posts which are regressive and obsessive. they are simply boring because you don`t like to stick to common sense, but try to elude it(successfully). I have suggested it before, chowk is not for you. it is for poeple who have a larger cavas of thought. you tend to live inside the well you are lying in for 1400 years. you should try your luck somewhere else where you will be taken with arms wide open, for example islamists.com or fundos.org

best of luck !

nt #73:
syed sahib,

have you ever wondered why there is no ntsyedani on chowk? do you think this is okay?

I must admire your skills to articulate your world view so effectively. no wonder that is why you are able to live in it. i am sure i can`t outsmart you in this, but let`s try to explain things:

the problems you have put down about US might be specific to US. i can tell you there is no termoil here in canada and i think it is the same for most europian countries. the problems with US have many other dimensions to it and US cannot be quoted as the representative of the secular nations.

generally speaking, when you make something leagal which has good as well as bad aspects, you expect the bad side of it to show too. take driving. it has the negative effects of accedent related deaths, insurance costs, pollution etc. but it`s goods outweigh it`s bads. your problem is that you live in a world where you don`t value freedom as something important.

the downside to islamic peculiar view of women is that women can`t live a normal life. you seem to ignore the fact that she is given a fully functional brain and a body. objectively speaking, they are more than 80% similar to men. and please note that we are not talking about forcing women not to perform hijab or to work. we are talking about freedom here.

here are your allegations:

>>>*increasing number of stalking, kidnappings, and rapes
very common in every part of the world including muslim countries. just that muslim countries don`t have much stats. and these have to do with civility of people.

>>>*endemic problem of the Date Rape,
yes, freedom brings more probability to it. but this is something which needs to be tackled without taking away the freedom. and please note that rape isn`t as big moral phenomenon in the sexually open places as it is in let`s say saudi arabia. as i can remember, in my mohalla in rawalpindi, a couple of my friends fooled a girl on date and raped them taking turns. she wasn`t able to sue anybody though.

>>>*Bimboism of the famous politicians
???

>>>*increasing incidents of rape in the armed forces
pakistani forces did this in bagladesh, and they did it to perfection. this point actually goes against your arguments because fojis are somewhat like muslims, sexually starved because of prohibition. :-p

>>>*Child molestation
do you think pakistan has less child molestation than US??? give me a break.

>>>*the rising reports of incest
nature is the guardian itself.

>>> *increasing statistics of extramarital affairs, still a major cause of divorce
it`s only your morality that views it as a taboo. don`t forget that animals always have extramerial sex and nobody lays an eyebrow. oh, are you going to allege me for comparing humans with animals? let me accept it before you say so, who else are we? animals with one extra dimension!
>>> *consistently high statistic of unwanted pregnancies
well, third world has a lot more unwanted pregnencies in the married.

>>> *a steady high rate of STD including AIDS
do you think it is from god? what if animals are threatenned with AIDs? will god send some prophet for them?

>>> *the thriving prostitution
so? it`s a human need, let`s be brave about it.

>>>*the continuous growth of multi-billion $$$ porn industry, and how many abducted underage girls and boys from all over the world are sold into this market
what`s so hot about it? do you think there is no niche for this in pakistani people? i can bet the hits on prono websites would be a lot more from major cities of pakistan now than any western one.

after writing this long futile post, I think I can feel the two horns which have appeared on my head. it`s not a good thing for me to touch ntsyed lengths in my posts, knowing that there is no outcome to it.

anyways,
take care

y.....a......w.....n

abdul-hates and their cut n paste spamming and diatribes!

One need not be a westernised KanjjaRR , walking-talking-& hawking like an Amreeky in Pakistan, to excel at academics or sports or whatever.

Until and unless the women in Pakistan do not STOP their Zaanee, Haraamkhore, sharabi husbands/fathers,brothers to take bribes, use/abuse family women for self-advancement in promotion & rank, forcing women to drink & dance & do westenish stuff to look raushan-khayaal , enlightened and moderate NOthing is going to change.

It is the General Iqleem Ranis of Pakistan who push their ``General`` ( to maj. level) to compete for vehicles, batmen, houses, furniture etc etc. They taunt them that because of their ````sharaafat`` and ``mullah-ways`` the family is `behind`. ``Everyone is doing ``it`` now..we should do `it` as well if we want foreign looks & manners``

These are the women of Haraamzaadays & Ghulaamzaadays in Pakistan. Incidentally, most of them happen to be `muslim`.

It is quite an open secret that many westernised NGO`s are running ``respectable`` brothels & the Madames supply these girls to their foreign-funders. Of course the four-witness law is brought in with gusto & pride to ``prove`` such allegations. Shariat & hudood are very conveniently invoked at such a juncture by these same westernised secularised-liberal-humasnists.


The old Indian adage `` Jaisaa Raja, vaisee Parjaa`` meaning the tone of morality & character of a nation is set by the ``elite`` , higher-ups, big-shots, VVVips, english-apeaking, so-called ``parrhay-likhhays``, anglo-cultured totaa-mainaas, the Ba Ba Blacksheep.

Jaisaa Rajaa, Vaisee Parjaa also means one elected throught the donut-democracy the process of top-down `democracy` gets set in motion. If the KanjaRR President takes his wife to please his foreig masters, then the lower scale scum of this bum will do the same. Has anyone EVER seen Chinese, German, Indian, French, Russian ( except Gorbachev--the snake) or anyone valuing honour & dignity do it? No, never. Abbey goray kee aulaado beevee ko naukri pay kyooN lay jaatay ho. Kyaa iss liyay kay ``maadern`` lago? Daddy ko khuush kro?

LaanUt LUkhh Laanut on the anglicsed, westernised Pakistan military & civil servants of goraa in Pakistan. Such scum is infesting public & private corporations as well--abay chhachoondar kay tukhmO! daftar meiN sivai angraizee kay aur kuchh nahee boltay?
Saaray forms aur kaghaz angraizee meiN chhapvaatay haiN.

---

And then next door there is Islamic Republic of Iran. where ShariaH and Hudood is judiciously enforce.

Oh you totaa-mainaas listen to the one who left before the Revolution and returns there every year. Listen and listen good what a Woman who lives in the west reports about the FUNDAMENTALIST, SHARIAH-RULED, HUDOOD-ENFORCED ISLAMIC Iran

---

...``people in the west have this patronizing view of Iranian women as victims needing deliverance, and they see themselves as having all the answers. I find that view as sexist as anything I see in Iran. Iranian women not only are - to state the obvious - individuals - they are an incredibly active, dynamic, strong group. Women`s sports, for example, has mushroomed since the revolution - all of it with women`s coaches. The original highest ranking Iranian government official was in charge of women`s sports. And a couple of Iran`s most prominent film directors are women. Not to mention that there are more women in the Iranian majlis than in the U.S. senate -- all of them fundamentalist who are interested in interpreting Islam to offer more justice for women. The most feminist idea I`ve ever heard came from a fundamentalist woman who was the editor of Zan-e-Rooz -- the proposal that housewives receive compensation and benefits. You just have to walk down a city street in Tehran to get a sense of how forceful Iranian women tend to be, or see some of the women characters portrayed in Iranian cinema - like the woman who became her husband`s boss, in ``Hamsar``, to cite one example - to demolish your preconceptions. So the stereotypes get old.... ``

Gelareh Asayesh grew up in Tehran. Her family moved to the United States in 1977, shortly before the Islamic Revolution transformed Iran. In 1990, after fourteen years of absence, she returned to Iran for a visit. Since then, she has returned almost every year, most recently for three months this past spring and summer. Her book, Saffron Sky: A Life Between Iran and America, is out from Beacon Press this mo

[Perhaps they also did appear, but were deleted when I saw them. The reason I suspect those were deleted is because echoboom and khamkhwa have historically supported my views. I have no reason to believe they would counter me this time, because my views remain the same as the day I became a member of this portal.] - #69.

nutty...
it`s time you were admitted man...me and support you of all the nuts...naah...me and uncle boom boom do exchange shair-o-shayeri on aghlaam bazi and other perverted arts but never on religion or politics...maybe you need to change your glasses too...;)

Re: #67

malikjahanzeb: ``in modren societies, in which law and order is strong, the benefits of sexual intermingling and liberty are far far more than it`s few draw backs (sexual predator phenomenon). in the context of these societies, you cannot show that sexual freedom is overall a bad thing. Can you?``

Explain the following for me please: (don`t worry about the societieS for now, just give me the reasons and statistics from the US, since the laws and order there is ``strong``, and apparently has (or should have) ``benefits`` of sexual intermingling)

*increasing number of stalking, kidnappings, and rapes
*endemic problem of the Date Rape,
*Bimboism of the famous politicians
*increasing incidents of rape in the armed forces
*Child molestation
*the rising reports of incest
*increasing statistics of extramarital affairs, still a major cause of divorce
*consistently high statistic of unwanted pregnancies
*a steady high rate of STD including AIDS
*the thriving prostitution
*the continuous growth of multi-billion $$$ porn industry, and how many abducted underage girls and boys from all over the world are sold into this market

malikjahanzeb:
``let`s say that sexual feelings are something evil. islam says that to keep people pure, it restricts their interaction.``

answer:
sexual feelings are not evil unless used in a prohibited manner. I think it was Shakespeare or someone else who put it just right: an object itself is not good or evil/bad; it`s how it is used renders is good or bad. For example, a kitchen knife. Similarly, sex is an innate requirement for all animal survival. But it must be used properly to increase the chances of survival for all. Its indiscriminate and excessive use is prohibited because of the very problems we witness around the world today including the advanced nations. Its sanctioned use (marriage) is encouraged in Islam becuase that enforces control and responsibility in individuals.

malikjahanzeb:
``i say that the more people get starved of sex, the more their sexual feelings become accumulated and the person becomes so desparate that no wonder he looks at moon and imagine it`s a big breast and looks at every hole he can find as if it is well....... this is where your context of dealing this issue comes from.``

answer:
I hope in your quest to explain the phenomena I mentioned above (to answer your first question) should have provided you the answer to this too. It`s just a false concept. If sexual openness could desensitize human sexual needs/instincts, married couples could not continue to produce children decades since their first time. There wouldn`t be an issue of polygamy and extramarital sexual affairs. The porn industry couldn`t keep growing, which is tragically now only a mouse click away from the children`s reach.

malikjahanzeb:
``since you represent the starved and desparate side, you take even a little matter involving sex to be a thing of paramount importance.``

answer:
If you look back in the US history, even in the 50s things were very good. Men respected women more than they do now. That system had survived centuries and millenniums. Once Hugh Heffners and Larry Flints came out with their right to publish Playboy and Hustler, and the movies started steamier, and the sexual openness started. How quickly - in perhaps less than 50 years - things have gone to the point that decent modest people of all faiths and colors and ethinicity are aghast. This openness has substantially contributed in the destruction of families in the US.

Again, I hope your research in the aforementioned phenomena is helping to answer this query too.

malikjahazeb:
``it is you who looks at players` bosoms while a fulfilled guy will watch the game.``

answer:
was I the one describing sania mirza`s ample bosom and venus william`s legs, or your buddy hamid?

What about the non-Muslim participants of this board, who have confessed to enjoy the femininity of the players while enjoying the game? They claim not to be rapists or perverts, and I have no reason to believe they are. But the fact remains that they are secure in their masculinity to admit that they enjoy watching feminine athletes` endowments accessories and may get aroused in the process.

malikjahanzeb:
``so, it is a stupid that islam`s policy to reduce something actually increases it many fold.

sometimes, i wonder how stupid looking the laws of almighty can get.``

answer:
To legalize a social ill does cure it. Just like removing prohibition on alcohol has only exacerbated the alcohol related crimes and incidents in the US - including rape and incest. The Right to bear arms has increased the number of homicides. Similarly the right to bare tops and bottoms in public only add to the frustrations of the sexually deprived. If haven`t noticed, there are lots of men and women in the west who don`t `get it` on regular basis, if ever. Therefore this right to bare sensual skin drives them nuts to the point of committing crimes they wouldn`t want to commit otherwise.

The point is Malik Saab, one cannot remove the human biological, physical, psychological factors from such utopian formulae. A lot of people don`t even know what exactly attracts them sexually towards another person. I`m sure you must have noticed that natural selection starts very early on among boys and girls we normally consider innocent ``children``; that`s because it is part of the `id` - another aminal needs of human as eating and sleeping, etc.

How does Islam know that? Well, my friend because it was not cooked up by Prophets (peace be upon them) in their kitchen, contrary to what some here believe.

Islam was formulated by Allah - the One Who created man and woman.

Just like an engineer who designs and builds a machine knows most about it than anyone else, the One who created us knows exactly what we are capable of and what our weaknesses are.

If you seriously read Quran and Sunnah, you will see that whatever Almighty Allah allows and forbids for us are actually the things that benefit us, not the angels, or Him.

A simple example is that of parents and children. Whatever the parents tell the child to do is for the benefit of the child. If you did everything your mother told you to do, you`d not only make her the happiest mother on earth, you`ll also take care of yourself more than you can imagine.

Think about it, it`s not rocket science. It`s very simple stuff, but one only needs to think. It doesn`t take guts to be ntsyed, because Islam is for the simple man... the simple man only needs to believe in Allah and obey Him and the simple man`s life will remain simple. And it`s not even a blind faith, but we`ll discuss that some other time.

Sorry for taking so much of your time, but you asked for explanation without thinking how long my explanations can be :D

M`as-salaam