A Fobby Love Story

Re: # 49

malikj,

......... good luck to you if you think you can impose your world-view on your children ...... personally, i don`t think it is fair and it really doesn`t serve any puropse ........

........... when people say i am ``proud`` of my culture i just look at them with wonder ........... what the heck is there to be proud of ?.......... cut out the crap !..... we are comfortable (that wet and warm feeling again !) with the language, the food, the music and all that other stuff simply because we grew up with it - it was not some great achievement on our part that deserves a prize ........... and just like us, our children are comfotable in the environment they were born into - and it is obviously a much better environment than the one we left behind, otherwise we wouldn`t be here .... right?.............. you and i will stick to our silly savage ways because we just can`t help it - heck, i won`t even give up being a muslim even though, like i have often said, i have some serious problems with the character of the prophet ............

......... i think our children are much better off without being subjected to our ``values`` .......... they can get all the exposure they need by watching a bollywood film once a year ........ last year we took them to see `bombay dreams` and a couple of weeks ago we dragged them kicking and screaming to see `bride and prejudice` - that is enough exposure to desi culture ......... it is bad enough that they have to eat ``urdu food`` at least three times a week ..........

Re: # 48 murshad,

a determined man can jump out of the window, kill another man, invent a religion and worse can drink his own piss. so, i think you can`t be so certain of people`s weaknesses. it is hard but it is achievable.

your family is like a plan which usually disperses it`s seeds in the surroundings where the next plants spring up. if an immegrant extracts this plant from the roots and tries to grow it in a far far land, he is doing some injustice to it. true that this forign soil is more enriched and will nourish the plant like no other, but it`s not the owner of the plant. i at least don`t think that i have the right to do that. even if nothing is stopping me from it.

and if you are comming from the point of view that we are all the citizon`s of the world and it really doesn`t matter which language, culture or land, then your thinking is understandable. but then it gives me a strange feeling when i see you here, interacting with those third-world scumbags. why? don`t you have a forum which better suits your Saladin Chamcha world view?

Re: # 46

malikj

``so, i have a flawed policy but having this thought makes me most comfortable``......... you are right ........ it is like pissing in your pants - it give you a nice warm feeling, but you know it is going to stink in a little while !...........

................ i just hope you won`t be too disappointed when you have kids of your own who don`t know ghalib from the garbage man who comes every tuesday and, even worse, don`t care ........and hopefully you will master the art of pronouncing ``w`` so that you don`t have get any grief from your kids for asking for a glass of vater .............

Muzammil -

Thank you for an interesting perspective.

The following passage was quite hilarious.

[Now, the love stories here are as different as hollywood from bollywood. The complications here are of a different kind; they dont include parents, limitations or privacies; they grow from paranoias and insecurities. My love vocabulary increased tenfold here, with words like relationship (it was always love, what the hell is a relationship?), breakups (no breakups in pakistan, either you marry the girl or her parents marry her to someone else), ex (noone kisses a hundred frogs there to find a prince charming), and you dont need to know a person`s favourite music and movies to be in love. I was astonished when I first heard this; ``Irfan janu, I love you but I`m not in love with you``; my poor soul still can`t figure out the difference. And I was petrified when I first heard the F word from her beautiful mouth, which was really a prelude towards my enlightment with curses; she doesnt believe it but I swear to God I had never before heard any woman curse! being called stupid idiot and dork was bad enough for my ego.]

By the way, one has to kiss a hundred and one frogs to find the ``real`` prince charming. You were off by one. Well, if you were the 101th frog then that is a big concern :)

Re: # 39

but murshad,

our kids are supposed to be our property, at least to some extend, at least when they are young. a little kid is no different from a pet, it is up to you to teach him how to jump for something you throw in the air, or to use some deserted corner to meet their excretry needs. then what is wrong with having a policy in trying to make their personalities? just that one looks unreal, unnatural, flawed over the other? that`s what all humans are like. there are no standards out there for reality or correctness (let`s exclude ntsyed here). you gotta make them for yourself and live it. that`s how we play.

take my example. i want an 80-20 % partitioning in my kids about being paki or westi. i want them to have a taste of everything eastern except hardcore religion. i want them to have strong roots and identity, a belonging, even if it doesn`t have an inbuilt pride in it. but i know that if they only taste pakistan, they will be insignificant for the world.

so, i have a flawed policy but having this thought makes me most comfortable. probably people who witness first and start thinking later may have different ways of looking at this. but murshad, i am not at all convinced !

Saminasha #34

{{For South Asian immigrant men, interactions with american desi women may be fraught because traditional power dynamics are reversed.}}

What is the “traditional power dynamics” (in ‘South Asia’, presumably)? Why would you expect it to be reversed in North America?

{{I`ve been reading with interest how these dynamics are coded by some:

… and yet the explicit eco/soc/pol. parity becomes the reason why abcds are not ``like`` fobs}}

The stuff you’ve been reading … does it claim to have any rigorous objective basis, or is it just anecdotal?


Saminasha #32

{{How many Fobs are 1. intimidated by the incomes and professional standing of desi women in north america 2. marry and despise/are intimidated/objectify their wives for the capability?}}

Would you care to give your own answers to these questions – in as rigorous and precise, or as loose and impressionistic a fashion as you prefer?

Amit,

Your example of the the blonde and the punjabi is an exception and not the rule-and as another interactor rightly pointed out, the dynamic of two people who apparently were performing stereotypical roles and expectations. In all these discussions of desi/gori, there seeems to be a discomfort with the idea that these relationships might be based in authentic and genunine mutuality, respect and yes, dare I say it?, love.

You also seem fixated on the idea that women marry for money and power. Not true. In fact, this claim is more a generalization than anything. Women marry for all kinds of reasons, and a good many of them marry ``nice`` guys. In North America, its much more possible to transcend class, race and religious commandments-which is why you see marriages across eco, ethnic and interdenominational lines here. Rather than focusing on the nice guy theory, I suggest you look at what it means when desi have a choice about who they marry and what their criterion is in North America. Its a great deal more complex than easy dismissals.

As for your last comment, I know a sixty year old Pakistani women, a zabardast chef who is an American citizen. Her opinions were quite fixed and loudly communicated. She dumped her teeth in a jar of water and Polident tablets at night and changed her shalwar kameez every two days. That didnt seem to dissuade her green card seeking admirer, 15 years younger. She declined.

Amit.....yaar what you said on your general observation that women across cultures and throughout history have been geared by over-riding societal tradition to seek out males that can ``protect and nurture`` them...is indeed true. However my friend...you surely know as well as I do, that characteristic is indeed evolving within global societies with the advent of the industrialised societies and the modern developed state. Its a simple fact from the developed West to the newly developed East Asian states, women are far more educated, earn incomes that can provide for themselves comfortably. What is the logical outcome?....they end marrying later, and to who they precisely want to marry. Bringing it all down to a simpler state...this is not only about marriage but the general outlook and worldview that women have growing on average in say Pakistan or even India..versus the West. You are going on about your one Panju friend back from your college days. You have to admit that hot blonde goris running after big fat unattractive desis is an oddity...I did my undergrad in the States a few years..so have many friends..and Im sure a large portion of interactors here...and the idea of the hot cheerleaders running after horizontally challenged desis aint too common. On the other hand..just look at the sheer number even in this day..of cute 20 year old indian and pak girls...to be honest more of the latter..marrying some 35 year old...run down has been..paunch..receding hairline and all.....all in the name of what....``A SUITABLE MATCH``..........and believe this is going to change....not maybe today or tommorow but in the next 30 odd years when our female literacy and educational enrollment rates double along with overall industrialiation and development of our states occurs...causing most importantly an evolution in societal values and traditions from their current backward state.

Re: # 23
nicely said! I love the way you said that and cannot agree with it more! being an abcd who has moved back to her homeland, i have know alot of abcd`s who are not as confused as everyone out there seems to portray them, in fact compare them to the Pakistani born American influenced confused desi`s (PAIC`s) and they seem quite normal and stable.

I read this story and was confused........., the girl he was describing could be from an upper class family from lahore, karachi or even islamabad,indeed he must be from a small rural city in Pakistan, girls swearing, saying hte F word, hes never heard that here? hmmmmmmmmmm that is unusual,

(After Hamidm’s post there is really nothing to add to this board but …)

Guy! You have absolutely horrendous motor skills. Obviously, as Hamidm has suggested you were raised in Lalokhet and your parents failed to infuse some social, moral, and cultural values in to your upbringing i.e. if they actually knew those values themselves.
There are plenty of People of Pakistani origin in this country who chose to raise their kids w/o any religious influence. Even in Pakistan, you will find people who have done that and their kids are completely free of any religion or religious influence.

My advice to you:
Stop thinking from your D1ck! And
Always control your hand that moves towards your crotch when you see and talk to a girl.

....... take the first boat back to lalukhet or gujranwala ........

........... what the heck is an abcd ?.......... why should first generation paki or indian-americans be any different from first generation italian-americans or polish-americans ? ...... just because they are a little brown on the outside and their parents stink up the neighborhood with their offal cooking ?............

............ look, i am grateful to our kids for letting us drag them around to the masjid and to various auntie`s and uncle`s houses when they were little and making them eat half-baked tandoori chicken ................. it was a horrible thing to do, but we did it because it made life easier for us and may the good lord forgive us for not taking them to see the nutcracker every christmas like normal kids ................... but now to expect them to behave like anything other than regular american kids is kind of silly ..........to expect them to prefer qorma over hamburgers, and speak urdu instead of english, and listen to nusrat fateh ali instead of green day, is asking a bit much, isn`t it ?........... heck, after having been here for twenty five odd years, even i have a difficult time carrying on a decent conversation in urdu without throwing in english and then resorting to punjabi for proper emphasis ........... who needs urdu and who needs qorma? ..... you can`t even get a job a the corner 7-eleven if you can`t speak english (not that it is stopping some idiots from trying) and i will take a medium-rare ribeye any day over qorma made with shan`s mystery masala ............

......... let`s just accept the fact that these kids are as american as joe`s kids next door and if they put up with our paki or indian bs it is out of the goodness of their heart ............ as for the fobs and other flotsam who are whining about our kids, i have a piece of advice : take the first boat back to lalukhet or gujranwala and leave our kids alone !

Re:saminasha#36

You said,``So why are abcd women ``money hungry`` and green card seeking fobs not?``

My point is that women naturally tend to gravitate towards men with money and power, while mostly ignoring simple guys who are nice and caring. This is true everywhere but more so in the US where there is an obsession with materialism. Clearly in my example, that blond girl was willing to overlook all the cultural differences with that fat Delhite and overlook his physical appearance. She even overlooked his obnoxious personality. I know women have a sixth sense about such things even though they may not understand the language. So basically it all boiled down to the fact that he was loaded and was willing to spend exorbitant amounts on her at the drop of a hat.

Green card seeking fobs are certainly there but unless they are illegal immigrants, there is a limit to how much they are willing to put up for a green card. There are not too many desi guys who will marry a fat, loud mouth, obnoxious woman just for a green card.

#36. i think the equation is not strictly about women vs. men.
i would go for brought-up that probably have more to do with creating different value-systems than gender. figures.

Raw Dust,

Exactly. So why are abcd women ``money hungry`` and green card seeking fobs not?

Re: #34
``Why is it so romanticized?``

because the old world loves its tribal ways... it is puportedly about ``values``, ``caring``, ``devotion``, ``belonging to a group/family/tribe/religousblah/ethnicity`` etc. ...

these notions Supposedly do not exist in western societies... check out what Amit is saying on this board....