A Journey Through Our Conscience

echo:

nice to know that there are people here who have spared some of their likings for the language of their earlier generations. well, technically urdu might not be our 100% heritage but in terms or embodying the largest subset of our heritage, it doesn`t have a better compatitor. at least it is workable.

i sometimes also yearn for availability of an urdu portal on the internet. but it is the sluggishness of us as a nation that there is not a single quality solution out there. chowk has the resources and support to do something like this but probably its agenda is too obsessed with language of hte master. but tell me, has a group of people asked this from chowk seriously? from techonological point of view, it requires almost no work on their part.

i will keep looking for online space that can provide better access.

Re: # 157 teshah sahib,


please note that this place is not a toilet and shouldn`t be used for this purpose. i will suggest that you go to railway station of lahore for this need. i have heard that they have gone flush system now. rates were one rupayya the last time i went there.

teshah ji:

i believe sajal javid is a female. unless men are now allowed admission to kinnaird college. :)

re: ntsyed # 144

``human embryos found inside quran``

Syed Saheb, if one accepts this approach to finding God, then there is a possibility that one is missing a much larger number of such interesting facts in books other than quran.

Have you and your friends tried to find such ``connections to modern science`` in the books of other religions?

Mr Sajal Javid


``I was amazed to listen to a sermon by a prominent Muslim leader that it is the West which is corrupting women because they demand equal rights from men. He believed that, “ Many among the Muslim women have been misled by this, because of their ignorance about their religion, which sees the woman as the man`s partner and as possessing rights and obligations”. If this hatred against women is being taught in our mosques then we should not be surprised how our men are turning out to be abusers and rapists.``

No, Mr Sajal, in your `lust` (excuse me) for feminism you have become so unrealistic as to condemn the mullah for preaching the truth about the status of the woman as per nature and her role in a Muslim society as ordained by the Qurane Hakim. The women in the west enjoy human rights because they behave like humans and are not gender conscious mere sex objects. The Pakistan woman on the other hand is always over-conscious of her sex without any regard for civilized human behaviour , viza vis, the man. Lacking any qualities, both of body and mind, she has only her sex to entrap the man, which she uses with devastating effect on the man.

The rape of Mukhtaran Mai, allegedly performed by the males, in compliance of the judgment of the male Punchayat (People`s Court) recently, brought into sharp focus the issue of women`s` rights, visa viz., the human rights. The very fact that the NGOs who had previously been agitating for human rights have started protesting for women`s rights only shows that the woman, as such, is a sub-human creature, a tilth (kheti), according to the Qurane Hakim, to be used by man in whatever manner he likes. Both the great religions of the sub-continent, Islam and Hinduism agree on this point. Unfortunately some of the humans apparently either blinded by their lust or being impressed by a rare phenomenon of a loyal, dutiful and obedient (Mohsinah) wife try to confuse the status of the woman with the filial relations like mother, sister, daughter, etc., and try to generalize the status of her as such, ignoring the perverse relationships she has with the man like sex slave, keep, prostitute, rebellious wife (Naashizah), etc.

While the Islamic scriptures have institutionalized the rape in the shape of a sex slave, the Hindu scriptures relegate her even to a worse status by placing her in the category of animals and low castes. A quote from Manu Samriti, one of the most venerated Hindu Religious scriptures says:

`` Animals, drums, illiterate, low castes and women are worthy of being beaten.``

And above all the Holy Prophet (PBUH) says:

`` The women are a trap of Satan. If there had been no lust the women would not have been able to entrap the men.`` (Ehyaae Alloom by Imam Ghazali, Vol. III, page 118)

And the Satan is on record having said that:

`` I have left no mischief (fitna) greater than women other than myself which is more injurious to man than I``. (Bukhari and Muslim as related by Usama bin Zaid - vide Ehyaae Alloom by Imam Ghazali, Vol. III, page 120)

And who can dare to challenge this admonition by the very Creator to Hazrat Suleman (who had subdued even the Genes):

``You may go after the lion and the snake but do not go after a woman``. (Ehyaealloom by Imam Ghazali, Vol. III, page 120).

temporal,

......... i demand to know why jay gets offers of origami while our own abdul-hate mian echo-ul-boom gets offers of tea ????......... i think this smacks of discrimination against the horrible hindoo ........ origami can be a very frustrating endeavor, while having tea is a pleasant pastime .........

......... what is the story ? ......... i am sure there is a profound reason ......

....... but having said that, i still don`t understand what do we have against women ........ to tell you the truth, i am sick and tired of the company of paki-muslim men and would much rather spend my time with women - they are a lot more interesting, a lot more mature, quite entertaining and a heck of a lot smarter .......... with the men it is the same old crap: religion and politics or politics and religion - take your pick .......... i am afraid that once they figure out asexual reproduction, women will have nothing to do with us and the male human will become extinct ........... i say, good riddance to bad rubbish - who will miss echoboom ?....... not even his mother, i am sure .......

hello jay

origami?

Qwali 150,

It is heartening to see that at last there are some honest pakistani inetrested in telling the truth. Hope these remain while the ilks of romair who dismiss honour killing as a tribal tradition and mantolives who say that abdus salam is a honoured man in pakistan with so many roads named after him vanish into crap of human history.

Then of course there are the pak apologists of indian origin like stuka and dost mitter who after a two day visit to pakistan declare that the streets of pakistan feel more like the streets of singapore. These liras are doing serious harm to the women of pakistan by trying to hide and the opression meted out to them and sustained by the lies of the educated.

Re # 150, Qawali,

well said!!.......

``should I say lost, confused, lawless, tragic, Chaotic Republic of Pakistan?``


That certainly describes the Pakistan as we know today.

..... but things are getting a lot better ......... why, just today hundreds of women were saved from being raped on the streets of sargodah !............ aall praise be to al-lah ! ... takbeer !

``SARGODHA, April 10: All-girl mini-marathon went ahead here on Sunday but within the boundary walls of a college and amid tight security.

Except the race officials, no male was allowed in to watch the sport participated by 250 girls drawn from local schools and colleges. The participation of other girls` campuses in the district was negligible.

There were hardly any women spectators to cheer the winners probably due to the presence of a large number of MMA activists and police at Chandni Chowk, outside the venue. MMA activists, who remained around the college throughout the day to thwart any ``attempt of the organizers to bring the girls out on the road``, were seen hiding clubs in some nearby shops. ``

........................... at last our women are safe and we have also set the record for holding the world`s first indoor marathon without any spectators ............ there is no limit to what we can achieve if we put our minds to it ........... takbeer !

sattar2 #149:

you must write about these and other issues

qawali:

well said

m-j:

sorry cannot help here...

here is one of the better links for appreciating Ghalib scroll down and click on ``Desertful of Roses``

rgds

t

Yes, Sajal, our concience is dead. We could have a funeral and instead of a Muslim burial, do a cremation instead. At the risk of pleasing enemies of Islam, we need to take a good hard look at ourselves. But an old disease we have is the inability to looking within (our giraybaan). One of the things to be discovered within (the giraybaan) is the concience. If the concience is awake, from there arises (ghayrat) honor.
Like charity, abuse begins at home, and definitely responsibility begins at home. Our addiction to controlling others and criticizing them (even if not ``abusing`` them), is a deep sickness. At one point, when the cancer crosses a threshold, then there is no hope of ``recovery``. So when the concience dies, so does the heart, soul, emotions, senses inluding fairness. Twelve step programs like Aloholics Anonymous say that when you`re pointing one finger at someone else, remember that three are pointing at your own self. They also say that God has given us one mouth, but two ears. This means we need to listen twice as much as speaking.
In other words, listen and be open to learning and don`t think or say that I know it all. Someone who harms others, like Mr. Bush or Mr. Zia-ul-Haq, is aloof because he`s high on the drug of arrogance and self-righteousness. Criminals and rapists use often use ``god`` to justify their actions. They`re on satan`s payroll, but show us a paycheck that has the name of a church, mosque, or molvee on it.
It`s not right to generalize, but we can see the trends have been in Pakistan for a long time, of child molestation. When the criminal is a teenager or adult, he targets someone weaker, (as Sajal says,) children and women. An oppressive society, and dogmatic teachings by molvees, created twisted interpretations of sexuality. And when a young man does not have legal means to express his sexual urges, which can make him out of control, like a raging maniac on steroids. The hormones are so powerful that most men under 40 are addicted to sex. If such a man does not have a consenting adult available, then he seeks ``relief`` in pornography, prostitution, molestion, and rape. The corrupt parts of the society and culture churn up perverts.
I met a fatherless Pakistani man, who used to kidnap girls from Tariq Road. He told me the story while laughing. For entertainment, four or five young men would drive busy streets, looking to hunt down a defenseless girl. They`d quickly stop the car, two or three men grab the girl and throw her in the car. They take her ``home`` and gang rape her for thrills. After the torture, they throw her somewhere.
What happens to the girls afterwards? Often she wants to die, and may commit suicide. If she can ask her family to kill her, when she tells them she was raped. If she doesn`t tell anyone, she can`t get help, and suffers emotionally and physically for the rest of her life. The pain she carries, reflects upon her children and future husband, so all suffer.
What is the definition of a Muslim, Islam, Pakistani? It seems we proudly hide behind these words, and mis-use them. One of the leading intellectuals has said, Pakistani`s ``Have become a nation of mummies``.
A word like Muslim, Pakistani and molvee is about subjective behavior. But when the word Islam is objective, because it is a philosophy which lays out standards of ethical behavior to create a civil society. Classical Islam, what was taught in the life of the Prophet and his companions, was the real deal. My grandfather used to say, the real Muslims died 500 years ago. I couldn`t stomach that for most of my life. But now I understand it, that most of our behavior is not ``Islamic`` but we call ourselves Muslim. A lot of the infrastructure in Canada for example, is what Islam teaches, but we don`t call it a ``Muslim`` society.
One of the worst examples is the Taliban, and I am ashamed of such people. As Sajal says, the patriarchal system encourages men to behave as the omnipotent, but in fact these men are so impotent, so impotent that they are threatened by the Blessings of women. Sexual perverts do public beatings of women and destruction of religious artifacts of other nations, like the Buddha statues. Destruction and harm toward others, that is not part of Islam. Instead, Islam teaches protection, and specially to create a safe place for women, and anyone who has less power.
The definition I like, is by Hamza Yusuf ``What`s Reasonable is what`s Islam``. Being a perver, rapist, creating oppressive laws against women to please Western masters, and have an unfair judicial system, these are all behavior of ``kufr``. Can I call it ``Islamic`` republic of Pakistan, or should I say lost, confused, lawless, tragic, Chaotic Republic of Pakistan?

Some comments on Islamic punishment for adultery …

For adultery, Quran commands that perpetrators be flogged (40 lashes? I forgot). Furthermore, according to Quran, fornication incurs half the punishment of adultery (20 lashes … if 40 was the correct number).

Death for adultery is based on erroneous ahadith. I say erroneous, since reported ahadith attributed to Ali and Omar on this issue contradict each other. Furthermore, both of them contradict Quran. Furthermore yet … there is no way to give half-a-death to a fornicator. There are contradictions upon contradictions here ...

When taken to the task on ``My Darling Abaya`` board, ntsyed Sahib admitted that recorded ahadith indeed can be incorrect (even those recorded by Buhkari, the most authentic source of ahadith). This was followed by Syed sahib calling me names … the usual.

Urstruly on the other hand has insisted that recorded ahadith are accurate. However, when probed further, he admitted that Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) at times contradicted Quran, and was corrected by others. This was an unusual position for a mullah … and I asked him if he was sure of this view. He became silent … and simply dropped the issue (Urs, please correct me if I am recalling this incorrectly ...)

And that’s the travesty of Muslims of our times (sigh). They talk much … but are hardly able to reason. Hudood laws are a product of such intellectually stagnant minds.

MalikJahanZeb:147
With certain sites that does happen. It has something to do do with that site--like when it is too busy or down.

Did you see my i-log page? Did you access Ghalib & Iqbal? Farsi dictionary?

Faiz has quoted some good Sauda and Meer to buff his poetry. Theline you posted is so superb. In fact it was kind of ``veiled`` until Faiz provided the ``context``.

It would be nice to see you writing & quoting more on this subject.

There are some excellent Urdu sites , I`m sure you must be aware of them. Please write which ones you know about and if there is any which you and I are are not aware of we`ll find out.

CHOWK is not doing a good job by not having an URDU portal. Similarly it would be really wise to bring back Madressat-ul-Haque as a separate portal so that those not interested in can avoid it. Ditto for Indo Pak debate.

On second thopughts is that it is the ``literature`` and ``poetry`` page which needs a another page because those receive the least responses. The ``mainstream`` are always
Indo-Pak affairs, religion/secularism divide, Islam/vs muslims etc etc.

Re: # 144 nt:

it was their help offer for me, not you. you owe me 100 Saudi Rayaal for this now. You can pay by PayPal.

i have read this embryo things before. you are probably not updated about it, this miracle has been excluded from the miracles of quran long ago when people found out that it was some pre-islamic heathen scholar who coined this theory and our mo just `acquired` it.

let me find the reference for you.

http://www.answering-islam.org.uk/Quran/Science/embryo.html

my personal thought is that this whole hike was created by bribing that poor canadaian scientist who after losing all hopes of making a fortune by just hardwork, sold his honesty in the hands of sheikhs of saudi arabia who are ever enthusaistic about finding so called `miracles` in quran.

Re: # 142 arjun_m,

yes, but it works sometimes and sometimes doesn`t. e.g. when i openned this page earlier, i could see the graphic but now i only see a cross (error).

i think echo and t can help me out after they wake up.