A Journey Through Our Conscience

a long road .......

.......... i don`t know if rape is any more prevalent in pakistan than in other places even though muslim men might be more lecherous and depraved than others because of their traditional attitude towards women ........but that is not the problem .......... the problem is that in pakistan, as in many other islamic countries, the rapist is protected while the victim is persecuted, defamed and punished ........ and that problem cannot be fixed by implementing sharia or other such nonsense - it has to be dealt with by establishing a civil society and rule of law ......... man`s law, with no contradictions or ambiguities and without interference from god and his ambassadors on earth .......... but first we have to learn to obey traffic laws and not spit on the street - it is a long road to hoe ......

ntsyed (#219)

“ … (I) challenge you to show me where does Quran says its okay to physically abuse women …”

Well done Syed Sahib … but when asked earlier, you could not tell where Quran asks killing people for worshipping their gods. You rambled endlessly about your reasons for not telling me (if this makes any sense at all ...)

Urstruly,

If specimen like nut syed can be considered human, what’s wrong with calling Ahmadis Muslims? You sound more and more like uncle tauheed. In regards to hamidm’s inquiry, I think your problem is that sometimes you miss being breastfed ...

nts #220:

without the slightest hesitation i would agree with the spirits of this post....i used to share this idealism once

ground realities though are different... times have changed...divisions are entrenched...forget sunnis and shias...even smaller factions have become die hards...can the egg be placed back in the chicken?

those pristine days are sadly gone...

all i/we can hope for is less hard line attitude, more tolerance towards all (factions as well as religions) and to strive for justice for the downtrodden...

in other words...smaller..shorter steps...one at a time...

t

Re: # 220 ntsyed

I am quite perturbed to see that you mentioned quadianiat in this list. It is highly inappropriate.

Re: # 220

........ i agree, but first we have to find mullah omar and hazrat osama (ra) - i understand they have the giddar singhi .......... if i have some time this weekend i will give you and your sidekicks directions on how to find them ..........

Re: # 216

The One and Only True 7th Century Islam is the Answer!

No politically perverted shia, sunni, and certainly no ahmedi quadyani versions - Pure and Simple Islam as prescribed in the Quran and Exemplified by the Prophet Mohammad (pbuh) and followed by his dear companions (may Allah be pleased with them).

All other systems have simply failed to protect anyone, especially the grossly exploited women.

``#215: ......... it seems that god(s) was never too woman-friendly ........ what would you expect of a being that didn`t have a mother !``

Does that mean you are a punishment for your mother, sister(s), wife, and your daughters?


Re: # 210
I suppose your idea of treating women like human beings is to objectify them and encourage others to do the same, so the money they (women) spend on their upkeep could be worth the expense.

Anyway, I would ask you how many times you`ve personally read the Quran, its tafseer (exegeses), the Prophet (pbuh)`s blessed biography, and Sahih Bukhari, Muslim, or Tirmidhi; or challenge you to show me where does Quran says its okay to physically abuse women; but unfortunately in this matter neither the context seems to mean anything to you and nor do you seem to be one who cares to look for information where it is and not where it is not - the Salman Rushdie and Irshad Manji planet.

Indeed, there`s no end to Allah`s mercy that you`re able to openly dissent against Him whilst religiously collecting your alloted sustenance from Him as your right. I`m sure you believe PATRIOT ACT is just a hoax and that West would allow you even more freedom of speech than Allah...if only you`d sobered enough to hear of Gitmo........ :-)~

I think you`re way beyond senility long before you have reached the normal age for it :-)~

Salaam

Re: # 215

mahesh mian,

......... unfortunately the same can be said of all religious texts - it seems that god(s) was never too woman-friendly ........ what would you expect of a being that didn`t have a mother ! ....... heck, the orthodox jews are even worse than our mullahs - every morning they thank their deity that they were not not born as women ..........and the hindoos aren`t much better with their widow-burning antics in the past ..........

........ the big difference is that whereas the vast majority of followers of most other religions have moved past their stupidity, muslims continue to be mired in sixth century muck ........ but eventually, i am sure, they will move on too, one way or another .......... the question is how many women (and men) will have to suffer before the ummah comes to its senses ..........

Hello chusni/echoboom

prevarications, perversions, obfuscations


and

still no measures for justice

Ba Ba Blacksheep NGO`s , Owmen`s rights western dingbats, in ``Islamic`` Pakistan
and a proud muslimah`s case of winning her right to don muslim-attire.
The Haraamzaadays and Ghulaamzaadays do not like such happenings around the world. The ghulaamzaadays and Haraamzaadays are wanna-be Rushdick spawns and they
cheer those who commit blasphemy and jeer those who are mullahs or mullah look-alike (mullah: good word use it often)

#210 Hamidm,

that is pretty bold of you. Do you have any fatwas on your head?

Hello chusni/echoboom

the rape victims do not get justice in pakistan

Qur`an and Hudood and other laws are brought in to deny justice in pakistan


what should be done so victims get justice? now and not in some utopian future in
pakistan

And this is ``Islamic`` Pakistan.

One wonders why they will not let the Sharia court hear the case. Could it not be thet most of the perpetrators of such acts are the ``ruling class`` ( Haraamzaadays & Ghulaamzadays).
The ones who revel in drink & debauchery , the ones who never tire of promoting such `enlightenment` and `moderation` ( nudge nudge wink wink--shopping for Fatwa).

They surely would not want a precedent. Have thay lost their heads?
The Ba Ba Blacksheep always have the right idea: `` Baaa humbug``.


PUnjaa hai yeh kaisaa aur kaun hai sayyaaD?
`Angraiz kee aulaad hai, Angraiz kee aulaad` !

---

Pakistan rape case accused freed

Ms Mai had asked that those acquitted should be held pending her appeal
Four of the five people acquitted in a highly-publicised gang-rape in Pakistan have been released from jail.

The victim, Mukhtar Mai was raped allegedly on the orders of a tribal council in 2002 for a crime attributed to her brother.

The release orders came after the Supreme Court set aside the ruling of an Islamic court which had earlier suspended the acquittals.

The acquittals shocked human rights groups sparking country-wide protests.

The fifth was detained on other unrelated charges, officials said.

Legal wrangle

The release has turned one of Pakistan`s most high profile gang-rape cases into a legal wrangle between various tiers of the country`s judiciary, correspondents say.

Fourteen people were accused of being involved in the case but eight of them were found not guilty by a trial court in August 2002.

The remaining six were sentenced to death by the anti-terrorism court. Pakistani law allows anti-terrorism courts to try cases of heinous crime including gang rape.

The defendants` appeal to the High Court was upheld last week and five of the six were acquitted. The death sentence of the sixth was commuted to life.

The court ruled there was insufficient evidence and incorrect investigation procedures.

Ms Mai said she would file an appeal to the Supreme Court and said the men should not be freed until it was heard.

The Pakistani government also criticised the acquittals and said it would appeal.

Fear

But before the appeal could be filed, an Islamic court in Pakistan suspended the High Court ruling saying that the latter had no right to hear the appeal.

Mai Multan protest
Pakistani rights groups say Ms Mai (left) has shown courage
Legislation allows the Sharia court to hear any criminal case that falls under Islamic laws called the Hudood laws. These cases include rape and adultery.

They ordered Ms Mai, the six defendants and seven men acquitted in an earlier decision to attend the new hearing. No date was given.

The Sharia court argued that Ms Mai`s case should have been tried under Hudood laws and not anti-terrorism legislation.

Fearing a legal wrangle between the courts, the Supreme Court said on 14 March it was taking over.

A district and sessions judge in district Dera Ghazi Khan ordered the release of the five acquitted by the High Court, arguing that the Supreme Court`s intervention did not stop those acquitted from being released.

Jail authorities said they were told by the judge that the Supreme Court had not suspended the High Court`s judgment and would merely hear an appeal whenever it was filed, correspondents say.

Ms Mai had appealed to the government after the High Court`s ruling that those acquitted should not be released.

She said she feared for her life if they returned to the village where the gang-rape had taken place and where ms Mai now runs a school.

Hello chusni/echoboom

the discussion here is about pakistan and how to bring justice now ( not in some distant future) to those affected...not in far off lands where others live

When was the last time a rapist was brought to trial in Pakistan? Anyone care to remember?

Benazir, when she was the PRIME MINISTER, her personal & dear friend was raped by the son-in-law of PRESIDENT Ishaque Khan . She was the grand-daughter (or something) of the
Shaukat Hayat family.

She couldn`t bring to trial or even investigation the murderers of her brother--and that happened when she was PM.

and the Peter-pawns are seeking high-brow solutions for the low-lifes of Pakistan: The secularist/humanist/liberal `enlightened` and `moderate` Ba Ba Blacksheep .

All the above are the ``elite``, the ones who are secular and westernised, the `raushan-khayaals`, `enlightened`, ``moderates` ( waiting for Fatwa to--Halaal the haraam)
. All of them are of the Ba Ba Blacksheep herd--english-medium--; all of them are `pragmatic` about honour, dignity, and self-respect [``leave that for practising types--we are educated and modern``]

Saudis execute man for murder, rape

(upi News)
RIYADH, Saudi Arabia, March 21 : A Saudi national was beheaded in Saudi
Arabia Monday for killing a compatriot and raping several women.

RIYADH,
Saudi Arabia, March 21 : A Saudi national was beheaded in Saudi Arabia
Monday for killing a compatriot and raping several women.

An
Interior Ministry statement said the execution, approved by an Islamic
court in line with Sharia (Islamic) law, took place in the early
morning in the main square of the western city of Taif.

Four Filipino men were beheaded earlier this month for killing a person during a robbery.

Monday`s execution brought to 29 the number of people put to death so far this year in the kingdom.

Routinely sentenced to death are convicted murderers, rapists, repeat drug offenders and Muslims who renounce their religion.

Last year, Saudi Arabia executed 35 people, while 52 were beheaded by the state during 2003.

- -- Copyright 2005 by United Press International. (World News)