A Journey Through Our Conscience
sajal javid April 7, 2005
#1 Posted by Aha_Snark on April 7, 2005 12:52:54 am
Sajal,
A very hard-hitting article. My compliments. I`ve never been to Pakistan and therefore have only second-hand information about the status of women in Pakistan but I can identify with the theme of holding women victims of sexual violence guilty for the crime - it`s the same here, in New Delhi.
I hope that laws which discriminate to this degree between the sexes are repealed.
A very hard-hitting article. My compliments. I`ve never been to Pakistan and therefore have only second-hand information about the status of women in Pakistan but I can identify with the theme of holding women victims of sexual violence guilty for the crime - it`s the same here, in New Delhi.
I hope that laws which discriminate to this degree between the sexes are repealed.
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#2 Posted by MeAyesha on April 7, 2005 2:48:08 am
well, it seems that they finally accepted it...and it is something that should be brought to attention! good work! Cheers! @yesha.
#3 Posted by ntsyed on April 7, 2005 3:17:46 am
Sajal,
very nicely written, but not many ``God fearing`` Muslim men are the rapists, if any. It`s the traditional so called ones who only possess a muslim name, but follow the blind and confused culture instead of Quran.
The following essay may shed some more light on the topic
The Tsunami Alert
“[I]n their (old Islamic scholars) days the science had not advanced, and nothing was there to draw their attention towards laws of nature and correct their errors. Thus, these reasons and their many other reasons were such that they (scholars) did not pay attention to the Quranic language … for example, in Ibrahim (pbuh)’s case there is no clear or tangible evidence that he was actually thrown in the fire, but they (scholars) did not pay attention to it.” (Transliteration)
“Shocking” would be an understatement to describe the preceding claim; considering it was said by a revered Indo-Pak Muslim scholar/reformer – Sir Syed Ahmed Khan, and reported by Justice Taqi Uthmani in his Uloom ul Quran.
The Justice further recalls SA Khan to claim in his misleading exegesis of the Quran that “[s]ince Ibrahim (pbuh)’s survival from the fire was out of the scientific realm of his contemporary western sciences, he and his ilk reduced the basic principles of the Quran and manipulated its meanings to suit their arguments. They declared that angels, jinn and Satan to be superstitions and miracles of the prophets (pbut) were supernatural events at best as a reason to disbelieve in them.” (Transliteration)
The question is: who is right? a sub-continental Knight – who instigated the reform which eventually brought about the freedom for Indian Muslims from the clutches of the British imperialists? Who was so passionate about his Muslim compatriots? In his zest to establish Aligarh University, allegedly he once claimed that he would not hesitate to go to a tawaif (prostitute) for its funding. Perhaps he deemed it appropriate to invest haram (forbidden) money into a halal (permissible) noble institution; but that’s another tangent sticking out of the scope of this essay.
Or should we believe a scholar who has devoted his life to serve TURE Islam - not any of the politicized versiona of it? As the current Mufti-e-azam (grand Mufti) of Pakistan, he is not only a scholar and a man of God but as a Justice he is a man of law too. He has authored a multitude of books and papers on Islamic jurisprudence, society, law, economy, family, and so forth.
Judging from the current state of affairs in Pakistan and Justice Uthmani’s extensive efforts towards understanding of Ture Islam for the confused Muslims of the Indo-Pak, particularly the secularized bunch; the man must be doing something right.
Anyhow, perhaps by the time SA Khan came along, the English had learned that proxy rule was more profitable than their previous modus operandi of brutal force, and for a successful execution one required puppet partners in the client state. Someone who would fit any or all of the following profiles: (a) nothing common with the masses except ethnicity (b) primarily inept but has the relevant lineage (c) extremely corrupt and brutal dictator.
Apparently SA Khan fit one of those profiles to overhaul the Muslim mindset – away from Islam and towards the western secularism. It makes one wonder how he actually earned the knighthood.
One also wonders why later on other prominent Muslim scholars who had much more knowledge of Islam were sidelined by the Farangi Sarkar. After all, Muslims of the subcontinent demanded a sovereign Islamic state where they could freely practice Islam, as well as advance in modern sciences, thus deserved a leader who could deliver both. Not that I’m accusing Jinnah & Co of insincerity. I’m only curious about Queen Mum and her representatives’ motives.
The fact remains, it was a gross mismatch of leader vis a vis the masses, where countless numbers of the latter sacrificed their lives and property for the sake of Islam at the behest of the former, yet neither Islam nor science has prospered in the country since inception.
If one conducts a quick global survey of the formerly colonized nations, none but only few have progressed in any real sense of the word (hint: Pakistan is not included in the few). The former masters only have to ensure that succeeding rulers fit one of the aforementioned criteria.
These selected leaders naturally surround themselves with likeminded degenerates, who in turn continue this process through nepotism and cronyism, until the chain ends. Consequently, the newly empowered leaders, bureaucrats, aristocrats, and all other little rats plague the country until it becomes easier for masses to conform to the endemic corruption than to stand up to it.
Today…
We have universities but our crème de la crème contributes to economies other than our own and frantically struggles for an acceptable identity.
Our youth have degrees but we fail to alleviate unemployment.
Our masses keep sliding into the abysmal destitution; agriculture fails to eliminate rising hunger; our poor are forced to sell their young into slavery in order to survive from day to day.
Our law enforcement agencies serve foreign governments; the judiciary looks on while our innocent are publicly robbed, maimed, killed, and gang raped with impunity.
Our secularly enlightened wonder why dancing and singing is disreputable work, especially when the hira mundi wields substantial power over our secular elite.
Our masses worship Allah but cannot distinguish between permissible and forbidden by Him; the self-proclaimed clerics issue edicts to obliterate their competing clergy.
Our secular politicians promise democracy but end up hanged or in exile after brazen pillaging.
Our formidable army kills our own.
Today we a have nuclear bomb but neither energy nor power.
Despite our wish and zeal to advance economically, politically, and technologically, our former masters would not allow us. They would either exact punishment on us for such a brazen insubordination by bombarding us back to the Stone Age. On the other hand, if they reward our ambitiousness… they may bombard us forward to the end of our time.
Tragically, SA Khan and his ilk’s efforts to secularize the sub-continent’s Muslims at the expense of religion, has caused more harm to the very people. Our futile effort to mix oil and water with its contradictory implementation of a defunct and fundamentally flawed system which tries to separate religion and politics, has neither established democracy nor are we able to live by Shari’a. Not only we have lost our spiritual direction, technologically we lag behind advanced nations by decades, if not centuries. The terrorized masses, with nothing more but their faith and/or lives to lose, have been branded “Terrorists” and condemned by our own elite.
While composing an essay on history of the Pakistan as a freshman in college, I came upon Khwaja Nazim Uddin’s biography at the university library during my research. In that book, the most unforgettable remark to date for me is his claim that the corruption in the government of Pakistan is like grease in machinery. While he was referring to our nation’s infancy, today it seems the whole country has drowned in that grease.
But there is light at the end of this dark tunnel, which the greedy myopic colonialists and their local puppets could not see. Witness it for yourselves: while the endemic moral corruption, plundering, oppression, and unbridled commercialization of education continues to direct the masses to the madrasa and brighten our spiritual roots, a rising number of our youth are seeking refuge from Allah. While the media fails to report this tremendous trend, more Pakistanis are rushing to the Masjids in the wake of War on Terror that some refer to as WWIV and others as the Long War. More and more Muslim women continue to discover their true identity and proudly demonstrate it by veiling themselves according to the Islamic dress code. Their newfound zest is rivaled by an equally increasing number of young Muslim men who grow beards to emulate the Prophet (pbuh) instead of making a fashion statement.
As they watch the naturally growing grass roots movement of Ture Islamic revival, the west and their influenced local proponents of westernization are perplexed at how they managed to create the very force it intended to eliminate. In its bewilderment, their greed coated intelligence is at a loss to reverse this trend. They helplessly witness this tsunami rise from the bottom of the oceanic pit they dug for the Muslim masses, as it rapidly gathers momentum to reach the heights unseen in history. It is only a matter of time when it comes crashing down to devastate the dissent against Allah, and He knows best when that time will come.
The anti-Muslims are revered for their ability to plan for decades or centuries in an unpredictable future. Unbeknownst to them, the True Muslims (not the followers of politicized Islam) plan for the inevitable ultimate future – the hereafter. Having acquired some experience in planning I know that successful planning demands optimum knowledge. That optimum knowledge only belongs to Allah, and He is the Wisest of all to have given us this way of life – Islam; all we need to do is to Obey Him as He should be obeyed. Regardless of obedience and disobedience, and He will have our submission. It is our choice whether we submit to him on our own before His wrath incapacitates us, or afterwards.
So come… the surf is up! Ride this wave, for it will lead you to the eternal pleasures and happiness in the Gardens of Eden, underneath which rivers flow and you will abide therein forever; lest you may be reduced to debris in the aftermath of His Wrath for disobedience.
Indeed, Allah the Exalted is the Greatest!
very nicely written, but not many ``God fearing`` Muslim men are the rapists, if any. It`s the traditional so called ones who only possess a muslim name, but follow the blind and confused culture instead of Quran.
The following essay may shed some more light on the topic
The Tsunami Alert
“[I]n their (old Islamic scholars) days the science had not advanced, and nothing was there to draw their attention towards laws of nature and correct their errors. Thus, these reasons and their many other reasons were such that they (scholars) did not pay attention to the Quranic language … for example, in Ibrahim (pbuh)’s case there is no clear or tangible evidence that he was actually thrown in the fire, but they (scholars) did not pay attention to it.” (Transliteration)
“Shocking” would be an understatement to describe the preceding claim; considering it was said by a revered Indo-Pak Muslim scholar/reformer – Sir Syed Ahmed Khan, and reported by Justice Taqi Uthmani in his Uloom ul Quran.
The Justice further recalls SA Khan to claim in his misleading exegesis of the Quran that “[s]ince Ibrahim (pbuh)’s survival from the fire was out of the scientific realm of his contemporary western sciences, he and his ilk reduced the basic principles of the Quran and manipulated its meanings to suit their arguments. They declared that angels, jinn and Satan to be superstitions and miracles of the prophets (pbut) were supernatural events at best as a reason to disbelieve in them.” (Transliteration)
The question is: who is right? a sub-continental Knight – who instigated the reform which eventually brought about the freedom for Indian Muslims from the clutches of the British imperialists? Who was so passionate about his Muslim compatriots? In his zest to establish Aligarh University, allegedly he once claimed that he would not hesitate to go to a tawaif (prostitute) for its funding. Perhaps he deemed it appropriate to invest haram (forbidden) money into a halal (permissible) noble institution; but that’s another tangent sticking out of the scope of this essay.
Or should we believe a scholar who has devoted his life to serve TURE Islam - not any of the politicized versiona of it? As the current Mufti-e-azam (grand Mufti) of Pakistan, he is not only a scholar and a man of God but as a Justice he is a man of law too. He has authored a multitude of books and papers on Islamic jurisprudence, society, law, economy, family, and so forth.
Judging from the current state of affairs in Pakistan and Justice Uthmani’s extensive efforts towards understanding of Ture Islam for the confused Muslims of the Indo-Pak, particularly the secularized bunch; the man must be doing something right.
Anyhow, perhaps by the time SA Khan came along, the English had learned that proxy rule was more profitable than their previous modus operandi of brutal force, and for a successful execution one required puppet partners in the client state. Someone who would fit any or all of the following profiles: (a) nothing common with the masses except ethnicity (b) primarily inept but has the relevant lineage (c) extremely corrupt and brutal dictator.
Apparently SA Khan fit one of those profiles to overhaul the Muslim mindset – away from Islam and towards the western secularism. It makes one wonder how he actually earned the knighthood.
One also wonders why later on other prominent Muslim scholars who had much more knowledge of Islam were sidelined by the Farangi Sarkar. After all, Muslims of the subcontinent demanded a sovereign Islamic state where they could freely practice Islam, as well as advance in modern sciences, thus deserved a leader who could deliver both. Not that I’m accusing Jinnah & Co of insincerity. I’m only curious about Queen Mum and her representatives’ motives.
The fact remains, it was a gross mismatch of leader vis a vis the masses, where countless numbers of the latter sacrificed their lives and property for the sake of Islam at the behest of the former, yet neither Islam nor science has prospered in the country since inception.
If one conducts a quick global survey of the formerly colonized nations, none but only few have progressed in any real sense of the word (hint: Pakistan is not included in the few). The former masters only have to ensure that succeeding rulers fit one of the aforementioned criteria.
These selected leaders naturally surround themselves with likeminded degenerates, who in turn continue this process through nepotism and cronyism, until the chain ends. Consequently, the newly empowered leaders, bureaucrats, aristocrats, and all other little rats plague the country until it becomes easier for masses to conform to the endemic corruption than to stand up to it.
Today…
We have universities but our crème de la crème contributes to economies other than our own and frantically struggles for an acceptable identity.
Our youth have degrees but we fail to alleviate unemployment.
Our masses keep sliding into the abysmal destitution; agriculture fails to eliminate rising hunger; our poor are forced to sell their young into slavery in order to survive from day to day.
Our law enforcement agencies serve foreign governments; the judiciary looks on while our innocent are publicly robbed, maimed, killed, and gang raped with impunity.
Our secularly enlightened wonder why dancing and singing is disreputable work, especially when the hira mundi wields substantial power over our secular elite.
Our masses worship Allah but cannot distinguish between permissible and forbidden by Him; the self-proclaimed clerics issue edicts to obliterate their competing clergy.
Our secular politicians promise democracy but end up hanged or in exile after brazen pillaging.
Our formidable army kills our own.
Today we a have nuclear bomb but neither energy nor power.
Despite our wish and zeal to advance economically, politically, and technologically, our former masters would not allow us. They would either exact punishment on us for such a brazen insubordination by bombarding us back to the Stone Age. On the other hand, if they reward our ambitiousness… they may bombard us forward to the end of our time.
Tragically, SA Khan and his ilk’s efforts to secularize the sub-continent’s Muslims at the expense of religion, has caused more harm to the very people. Our futile effort to mix oil and water with its contradictory implementation of a defunct and fundamentally flawed system which tries to separate religion and politics, has neither established democracy nor are we able to live by Shari’a. Not only we have lost our spiritual direction, technologically we lag behind advanced nations by decades, if not centuries. The terrorized masses, with nothing more but their faith and/or lives to lose, have been branded “Terrorists” and condemned by our own elite.
While composing an essay on history of the Pakistan as a freshman in college, I came upon Khwaja Nazim Uddin’s biography at the university library during my research. In that book, the most unforgettable remark to date for me is his claim that the corruption in the government of Pakistan is like grease in machinery. While he was referring to our nation’s infancy, today it seems the whole country has drowned in that grease.
But there is light at the end of this dark tunnel, which the greedy myopic colonialists and their local puppets could not see. Witness it for yourselves: while the endemic moral corruption, plundering, oppression, and unbridled commercialization of education continues to direct the masses to the madrasa and brighten our spiritual roots, a rising number of our youth are seeking refuge from Allah. While the media fails to report this tremendous trend, more Pakistanis are rushing to the Masjids in the wake of War on Terror that some refer to as WWIV and others as the Long War. More and more Muslim women continue to discover their true identity and proudly demonstrate it by veiling themselves according to the Islamic dress code. Their newfound zest is rivaled by an equally increasing number of young Muslim men who grow beards to emulate the Prophet (pbuh) instead of making a fashion statement.
As they watch the naturally growing grass roots movement of Ture Islamic revival, the west and their influenced local proponents of westernization are perplexed at how they managed to create the very force it intended to eliminate. In its bewilderment, their greed coated intelligence is at a loss to reverse this trend. They helplessly witness this tsunami rise from the bottom of the oceanic pit they dug for the Muslim masses, as it rapidly gathers momentum to reach the heights unseen in history. It is only a matter of time when it comes crashing down to devastate the dissent against Allah, and He knows best when that time will come.
The anti-Muslims are revered for their ability to plan for decades or centuries in an unpredictable future. Unbeknownst to them, the True Muslims (not the followers of politicized Islam) plan for the inevitable ultimate future – the hereafter. Having acquired some experience in planning I know that successful planning demands optimum knowledge. That optimum knowledge only belongs to Allah, and He is the Wisest of all to have given us this way of life – Islam; all we need to do is to Obey Him as He should be obeyed. Regardless of obedience and disobedience, and He will have our submission. It is our choice whether we submit to him on our own before His wrath incapacitates us, or afterwards.
So come… the surf is up! Ride this wave, for it will lead you to the eternal pleasures and happiness in the Gardens of Eden, underneath which rivers flow and you will abide therein forever; lest you may be reduced to debris in the aftermath of His Wrath for disobedience.
Indeed, Allah the Exalted is the Greatest!
#4 Posted by twintopaz on April 7, 2005 4:07:23 am
Sajal...thought provoking article. You and for that matter all Pakistani women should be grateful that Pakistan is now governed by President Musharaf who clearly accepts that Hadood Ordinance is faulty and requires drastic changes...
Infact a committee head by Justice retd. Majida Rizvi has already done the home work and presented the required amendments long time back. The only thing now required is will by our legislators..
keep writing
Infact a committee head by Justice retd. Majida Rizvi has already done the home work and presented the required amendments long time back. The only thing now required is will by our legislators..
keep writing
#5 Posted by catfischblues on April 7, 2005 5:59:34 am
Truly insightful and provocative in its nature. Very well written indeed. Do keep writing.
However, I would like to know is anything being done about the Hadood laws? Is there any reason that we can be hopeful towards the laws repeal?
However, I would like to know is anything being done about the Hadood laws? Is there any reason that we can be hopeful towards the laws repeal?
#6 Posted by KaalChakra on April 7, 2005 6:23:02 am
re: ntsyed # 3
``not many ``God fearing`` Muslim men are the rapists, if any. It`s the traditional so called ones who only possess a muslim name, but follow the blind and confused culture instead of Quran.``
Syed Saheb. The people who follow the blind and confused culture are rapists?
``not many ``God fearing`` Muslim men are the rapists, if any. It`s the traditional so called ones who only possess a muslim name, but follow the blind and confused culture instead of Quran.``
Syed Saheb. The people who follow the blind and confused culture are rapists?
#7 Posted by ana on April 7, 2005 6:49:04 am
the political/theocratic establishment in pakistan would need to possess a conscience to journey through to begin with. perhaps some do but it has not been enough to cast away this ordinance. a law that in my opinion is one of the worst things we have inherited and held on to from the zia jahilia.
regarding your footnote sajal, there are those who have stood up for the rights and protection of women, and have fallen. hopefully they`ve gotten back up on their feet but little is heard of them. and some of us brought up the hudood ordinance here on chowk not too long ago, and there wasn`t much response at all. as cynical as i am about change, i still hope that ALL women will be protected by the law someday. but the law as it stands today has been an ass more or less.
pakistan appears to be moving forward inspite of the hudood ordinance, but appearances are deceiving, and wasn`t it our own father of the nation who said something to the effect of no country being able to move forward unless both men and women walk side by side?
the things we have cast aside, and the things we`ve held on to over the years. . .
--ana
regarding your footnote sajal, there are those who have stood up for the rights and protection of women, and have fallen. hopefully they`ve gotten back up on their feet but little is heard of them. and some of us brought up the hudood ordinance here on chowk not too long ago, and there wasn`t much response at all. as cynical as i am about change, i still hope that ALL women will be protected by the law someday. but the law as it stands today has been an ass more or less.
pakistan appears to be moving forward inspite of the hudood ordinance, but appearances are deceiving, and wasn`t it our own father of the nation who said something to the effect of no country being able to move forward unless both men and women walk side by side?
the things we have cast aside, and the things we`ve held on to over the years. . .
--ana
#8 Posted by temporal on April 7, 2005 7:16:13 am
sajal:
welcome to chowk
this is more focussed and better written than the other one:)
nts #3:
... but not many ``God fearing`` Muslim men are the rapists, if any.
it seems today it is written in Loh e Mahfooz that i should be asking you two queries:)
1: how many ``God fearing`` Muslim men are rapists according to your sources of information AND would you share those sources with us?
...It`s the traditional so called ones who only possess a muslim name, but follow the blind and confused culture instead of Quran.
2: Can you elaborate for us who are these so called one? where do they live? what are there numbers? how can we show them the true path to islam so they stop raping?
rgds
t
welcome to chowk
this is more focussed and better written than the other one:)
nts #3:
... but not many ``God fearing`` Muslim men are the rapists, if any.
it seems today it is written in Loh e Mahfooz that i should be asking you two queries:)
1: how many ``God fearing`` Muslim men are rapists according to your sources of information AND would you share those sources with us?
...It`s the traditional so called ones who only possess a muslim name, but follow the blind and confused culture instead of Quran.
2: Can you elaborate for us who are these so called one? where do they live? what are there numbers? how can we show them the true path to islam so they stop raping?
rgds
t
#9 Posted by echoboom on April 7, 2005 8:21:52 am
``hUm huay kaafir, toa voh kaafir musalmaaN ho gaya``
The times they are a`changin`...
Burquaas, Abayaas, and Hijaabs are in--big time.
Glorious and heart warming news that the Paki english press, on `pause` since their Daddys abandoned them, prefers not to know.
But what can you do . Facts are Facts--and internet & e-mails are whirring & buzzing.
``hUm huay kaafir, toa voh kaafir musalmaaN ho gaya``
tr:
``When I abandoned Islam and became a kaafir (for her sake), she embraced Islam``!
paraphrase :
in Musharraf`s Raushan-Khayalistan
``We embraced our master`s creed to please and appease him , but Lo and behold! he turns around and embraces another creed.!
READ and ENJOY!
Click here
The times they are a`changin`...
Burquaas, Abayaas, and Hijaabs are in--big time.
Glorious and heart warming news that the Paki english press, on `pause` since their Daddys abandoned them, prefers not to know.
But what can you do . Facts are Facts--and internet & e-mails are whirring & buzzing.
``hUm huay kaafir, toa voh kaafir musalmaaN ho gaya``
tr:
``When I abandoned Islam and became a kaafir (for her sake), she embraced Islam``!
paraphrase :
in Musharraf`s Raushan-Khayalistan
``We embraced our master`s creed to please and appease him , but Lo and behold! he turns around and embraces another creed.!
READ and ENJOY!
Click here
#10 Posted by ShoreSahib on April 7, 2005 8:33:37 am
Great Article, Miss Javid.
Very well written and articulate. Please keep writing.
Very well written and articulate. Please keep writing.
#11 Posted by KaalChakra on April 7, 2005 9:14:58 am
re: ana # 7
The political dynamics of conservatives and liberals is always such that keeping religious laws at bay is far easier than casting them aside once they are put in place.
The political dynamics of conservatives and liberals is always such that keeping religious laws at bay is far easier than casting them aside once they are put in place.
#12 Posted by paindupastry on April 7, 2005 9:48:43 am
yet another thought provoking article on the status of women in the ``land of the pure``. im not sure of what exactly is happening to counter these huddod laws. could someone who knows about it, please give us an update of what the situation is.
#13 Posted by echoboom on April 7, 2005 9:53:12 am
A fascinating insight. A highly regarded Professor of Islamic Law and holding top position in his field speaks.
Islamic Law IS the answer, says David Forte: Advisor to the Vatican (Pope) and President Bush.
Date: 2005-03-09
David Forte, a consultor to the Pontifical Council for the Family and an adviser to President George Bush on Islamic affairs, shared with ZENIT why he believes there are facets of Islamic law that are hospitable to the development of free societies.
Forte is a law professor at Cleveland-Marshall College of Law at Cleveland State University and author of ``Studies in Islamic Law: Classical and Contemporary Application`` (Austin & Winfield).
Interview with David Forte
Islamic Law IS the answer, says David Forte: Advisor to the Vatican (Pope) and President Bush.
Date: 2005-03-09
David Forte, a consultor to the Pontifical Council for the Family and an adviser to President George Bush on Islamic affairs, shared with ZENIT why he believes there are facets of Islamic law that are hospitable to the development of free societies.
Forte is a law professor at Cleveland-Marshall College of Law at Cleveland State University and author of ``Studies in Islamic Law: Classical and Contemporary Application`` (Austin & Winfield).
Interview with David Forte
#14 Posted by arjun_m on April 7, 2005 11:24:03 am
#4 by twintopaz on April 7, 2005 4:07am PT
Pakistan is now governed by President Musharaf who clearly accepts that Hadood Ordinance is faulty and requires drastic changes...
how long has musharraf been in power and what moves has he made against this law?
It took 2 minutes and one phone call for him to ditch the taliban....so don`t give us some BS about democratic change requiring time and all that....
Pakistan is now governed by President Musharaf who clearly accepts that Hadood Ordinance is faulty and requires drastic changes...
how long has musharraf been in power and what moves has he made against this law?
It took 2 minutes and one phone call for him to ditch the taliban....so don`t give us some BS about democratic change requiring time and all that....
#15 Posted by ntsyed on April 7, 2005 11:40:26 am
Re: #6 - ``Syed Saheb. The people who follow the blind and confused culture are rapists?``
Re: #8 -
``1: how many ``God fearing`` Muslim men are rapists according to your sources of information AND would you share those sources with us?
2: Can you elaborate for us who are these so called one? where do they live? what are there numbers? how can we show them the true path to islam so they stop raping?``
One can start from Meeran Wala - Mukhtaran gang rape fame, and there are many places like that in the rural Pakistan. Then one will find fake peers and buzurgs running amok throughout the country. Then there are spoiled brats of the secularized pseudo western rich hiding behind their father/uncle`s uniforms and/or political clout. Then we have the political foot soldiers, who use this method of canvassing for their candidate. Not to forget the corrupt politicians and feudal lords and law enforcement brass. Some may have heard of 5 or 6 men gang raping two sisters in their home after tying up the other members of the family, and if I remember correctly, they did the deed in broad day light. Some of them were actual plain clothes policemen, and others were highly connected in that department.
As for #8`s q1 - the ``if any`` contains the answer. Since no human being except the Prophets of Allah (peace be upon them) can be infallible, one cannot discount mistakes and even heinous crimes by anyone, and even God fearing men can be swayed by Shaitaan, even if momentarily, to commit such crimes under whatever circumstance. The operative word here is `can` - it is not necessary that they `do`.
The point is that just because some Muslims who follow politicized versions of Islam for whatever benefit and oppress men, women, or clans, etc, to suit their agendas, doesn`t mean Islam needs to be changed as some pseudo uninformed seculars keep shouting for.
In order to change a system one needs to study it first, compare it with the most successful one(s) for gap analysis, and only then one can suggest/ask for a change. Most people who study Islam end up embracing it and some of them become incredible servants of Allah - Yousuf Islam, Bilal Philips, etc. That`s why now the anti-muslim groups are trying hard to change it without allowing anyone to study it first. The westernized muslim youth are their tools in this wretched attemp. If God forbid things get worse, the ensuing violence against Muslims in the west will make holocaust, Bosnia, and recent violence in Gujrat look like child`s play. The frustrated public non-muslims will not care if a muslim practices Islam or not. Just like a sikh was shot to after 9/11 becuase the redneck thought he was a muslim. In Bosnia, Sarajevo neighbor killed their Muslim neighbors just because the latter had green color in the bathroom, regardless of the fact that most of the massacred Muslims did not even know about Islam, let alone practice it.
``Times are achanging``, and in US & UK, their constitutions are changing too. Recent surveys in the US show that 44% of Americans say that Muslim Americans` rights should be curtailed, and 47% oppose that. The margin of error is plus/minus 3%. So don`t count on the Bill of Rights.
What I say here is not grabbed out of thin air. I have lived the life of an ignorant in the west for far too long. I have seen where they come from and where they are headed. I know their system inside out. All praises be to Allah, He allowed me to compare those systems with Islam - apples to apples, so to speak - and then I share my conclusions here.
Some self-proclaimed enlightened seculars here profess to know all about Islam and that`s why they say they don`t like Islam. Once engaged in debates, it turns out they don`t even know the basics of Islam. I wouldn`t be surprised to find out if they`ve never prayed in their entire lives, let alone read the Quran to at least see for themselves what all the fuss is about, and I personally know people like that.
Re: #8 -
``1: how many ``God fearing`` Muslim men are rapists according to your sources of information AND would you share those sources with us?
2: Can you elaborate for us who are these so called one? where do they live? what are there numbers? how can we show them the true path to islam so they stop raping?``
One can start from Meeran Wala - Mukhtaran gang rape fame, and there are many places like that in the rural Pakistan. Then one will find fake peers and buzurgs running amok throughout the country. Then there are spoiled brats of the secularized pseudo western rich hiding behind their father/uncle`s uniforms and/or political clout. Then we have the political foot soldiers, who use this method of canvassing for their candidate. Not to forget the corrupt politicians and feudal lords and law enforcement brass. Some may have heard of 5 or 6 men gang raping two sisters in their home after tying up the other members of the family, and if I remember correctly, they did the deed in broad day light. Some of them were actual plain clothes policemen, and others were highly connected in that department.
As for #8`s q1 - the ``if any`` contains the answer. Since no human being except the Prophets of Allah (peace be upon them) can be infallible, one cannot discount mistakes and even heinous crimes by anyone, and even God fearing men can be swayed by Shaitaan, even if momentarily, to commit such crimes under whatever circumstance. The operative word here is `can` - it is not necessary that they `do`.
The point is that just because some Muslims who follow politicized versions of Islam for whatever benefit and oppress men, women, or clans, etc, to suit their agendas, doesn`t mean Islam needs to be changed as some pseudo uninformed seculars keep shouting for.
In order to change a system one needs to study it first, compare it with the most successful one(s) for gap analysis, and only then one can suggest/ask for a change. Most people who study Islam end up embracing it and some of them become incredible servants of Allah - Yousuf Islam, Bilal Philips, etc. That`s why now the anti-muslim groups are trying hard to change it without allowing anyone to study it first. The westernized muslim youth are their tools in this wretched attemp. If God forbid things get worse, the ensuing violence against Muslims in the west will make holocaust, Bosnia, and recent violence in Gujrat look like child`s play. The frustrated public non-muslims will not care if a muslim practices Islam or not. Just like a sikh was shot to after 9/11 becuase the redneck thought he was a muslim. In Bosnia, Sarajevo neighbor killed their Muslim neighbors just because the latter had green color in the bathroom, regardless of the fact that most of the massacred Muslims did not even know about Islam, let alone practice it.
``Times are achanging``, and in US & UK, their constitutions are changing too. Recent surveys in the US show that 44% of Americans say that Muslim Americans` rights should be curtailed, and 47% oppose that. The margin of error is plus/minus 3%. So don`t count on the Bill of Rights.
What I say here is not grabbed out of thin air. I have lived the life of an ignorant in the west for far too long. I have seen where they come from and where they are headed. I know their system inside out. All praises be to Allah, He allowed me to compare those systems with Islam - apples to apples, so to speak - and then I share my conclusions here.
Some self-proclaimed enlightened seculars here profess to know all about Islam and that`s why they say they don`t like Islam. Once engaged in debates, it turns out they don`t even know the basics of Islam. I wouldn`t be surprised to find out if they`ve never prayed in their entire lives, let alone read the Quran to at least see for themselves what all the fuss is about, and I personally know people like that.
#16 Posted by ana on April 7, 2005 11:56:12 am
arjun:
samjha karo. . . bush pulls one end of musharraf, and the ``mullahs`` in favor of the hudood pull the other. i thought since you are all-knowing, you would know thaaat.
samjha karo. . . bush pulls one end of musharraf, and the ``mullahs`` in favor of the hudood pull the other. i thought since you are all-knowing, you would know thaaat.
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