Mr. Ahmed

I am sorry I couldn’t get back to you guys before. But I was very much tied up with a family-related issue.

A number of questions have been raised about this article. I shall try to answer a couple of them:

Q. Was this a true story?

In essence, yes. The garnishings were made up.

Q. What did I mean by the sentence – “He has no idea what he’s dealing with”.

Precisely that. That if we, with our origins in the Indian subcontinent, could be fooled by Mr. Ahmed’s educated exterior, then the U.S. president might not have a complete understanding about the true nature of many of these people.

However, this was a human reaction on our part, no doubt coloured by similar experiences we had previously.

This does not imply that the efforts at spreading democracy will not succeed. What I tried to say is that it is an impediment the U.S. President might not be aware of.

We hope democracy spreads everywhere.

We hope this “us” and “them” attitude disappears with time.

Here’s hoping that mankind will succeed in realizing the words of the English poet John Donne:

“No man is an island, entire of itself
every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main
if a clod be washed away by the sea,
Europe is the less, as well as if a promontory were,
as well as if a manor of thy friends or of thine own were
any man`s death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind
and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls
it tolls for thee. ”


Thank you for reading my story and commenting on it.

I liked this short story.

Very true reflection indeed.

Re: #8 by Urstruly

[Re: # 7

au contraire I don`t think that writer is being literal here; but anyway the point is that pathans are quite vhement about their assertion in this regard.]


Check out this link: http://www.geocities.com/pak_history/pashtuns.html

The following paragraphs appear towards the end and summarizes the article:

“Western scholars, therefore, maintain that an overwhelming majority of the Afghan/Pathan tribes are positively descended from the Sakas, Kushans, Huns and Gujjars. Some of the scholars point out the possibility of the word Abdali being another form of Epthalite by which name the White Huns (the ancestors of Rajputs) were known. Grierson finds a form of Paithan in use in the East Gangetic Valley to denote a Muslim Rajput. Bellew, one of the greatest authorities on Pathans, notes that several characteristics are common to both the Rajputs and Afghans and suggests that Sarban, one of the ancestors of the Afghans, was a corruption of the word Suryabans (solar race) from which many Rajputs claim descent (Bellew: Races of Afghanistan). The great Muslim historian Masudi writes that Qandahar was a separate kingdom with a non-Muslim ruler and states that `it is a country of Rajputs`. It would be pertinent to mention here that at the time of Masudi most of the Afghans were concentrated in Qandahar and adjacent areas and had not expanded to the north. Therefore, it is highly significant that Masudi should call Qandahar a Rajput country.

Since the modern state of Afghanistan and the N.W.F.P. province of Pakistan were the main regions through which Central Asian tribes passed and in which they settled down, it is impossible that these areas should have remained uncolonised and the blood of their inhabitants unsullied. Therefore, it can be safely concluded that the present day Afghans/Pathans are mostly, notwithstanding their claims, the descendants of Central Asian tribes of Sakas, Kushans, Huns and Gujjars. It need hardly be pointed out that from them are also descended the major tribes of the Kashmir, Punjab, Sind and Baluchistan.

Just as the present-day Greeks are Slavs and not of the same race as Alexander and Aristotle, so also is the case with the present day Afghans and Pathans. According to the Encyclopaedia of Islam, the theory of the Jewish descent of Afghans is of later origin and may be traced back to Maghzan-e-Afghani compiled for Khan-e-Jehan Lodhi in the reign of Mughal Emperor Jehangir and does not seem to have been recorded before the end of the 16th century A.D. Prior to this period no other book mentions that Afghans are descended from Jewish tribes. The Jewish books also dont mention anywhere that Saul`s son Jeremia had a son named Afghan from whom Afghans claim descent.

Similarly, the story of Qais Abdur Rashid having gone from Afghanistan to Arabia to meet the Prophet and after returning to his country having converted the Afghans to Islam also does not stand the scrutiny of history. Muslim historians Ibn Haukal, Utbi and Alberuni are unanimous in the view that uptill the time of Mahmud Ghaznavi i.e. almost four hundred years after the death of the Prophet, most of the Afghans were still non-Muslims. Mahmud Ghaznavi `had to fight against the infidel Afghans in the Sulaiman mountains.` Even 200 years later in the encounter between Mohammad Ghori and Prithviraj in 1192 A.D., according to Farishta, Hindu/Buddhist/Animist/Pagan/Shamanist/Zoroastrian Afghans were fighting on the side of the Rajput Chief. The fact that the Afghans should have joined the Rajput confederacy of Prithviraj may also indicate some sort of kinship between them. “

Re: #169 by dost-mittar

[Guru Gobind Singh suggested a painless alternative to the one you suggested. He did use a kirpan with which he stirred water and sugar whle reading some verses and, after someone tasted that amrit, the fear was all gone. And while you guys are satisfied with a ratio of ten to one, he was more ambitious and vowed ``sava laakh se ek ladaoon``, and the ``sava laakh`` he had in mind were those without the ``missing millimetres``. :-)]


Huh?

And the point being?

I went to sea a 35 foot shark that had washed ashore on the Haji Ali seaface area in Mumbai.They were already cutting it up by the time we got there.I think the shark must have been surfing the net, stumbled on this site and this board and decided to give it up!!!.This ``echoboom`` character has the hots for ``hamidm2``.It happens.

Guru Gobind must have known the druid ``Getafix`.That`s where he must have learnt the secret ingredients of the `magic potion` , a drink that makes one invincible.If it`s just sugar and water then we indians should be invincible, as we consume copious amounts of sugar and water daily, in one form or another.I will not say more.

echoboom #153 to hamidm: ``It is simply a humble token and acknowledgemnt of appreciation for your own contributions to keep me in stititches--otherwise I would have been running wild & naked here. ( some think I already do--they can see through me) ``

A double - no, triple, counting the one in parenthesis!! - entendre. (stitches as in LOL, stitches as in clothes, and ``see through me`` as in no clothes). balay! balay!! janaab echoboom now I am convinced that you are an evil genius.

p.s to #170
This is the link to download the fonts from.
http://www.abhivyakti-hindi.org/abhi/hindi_shusha_fonts_dl_help.htm

This is a link which lists many Hindi satirists. This is in devnagri, though.
Another one of my favorites, K P Saxena, is listed here.
http://www.abhivyakti-hindi.org/vyangya/index.htm

echoboom:

``Dost-Mittar:
Please wipe his tears. He is truly scared.``

Guru Gobind Singh suggested a painless alternative to the one you suggested. He did use a kirpan with which he stirred water and sugar whle reading some verses and, after someone tasted that amrit, the fear was all gone. And while you guys are satisfied with a ratio of ten to one, he was more ambitious and vowed ``sava laakh se ek ladaoon``, and the ``sava laakh`` he had in mind were those without the ``missing millimetres``. :-)

On the topic of comedians, I am surprised no one has yet mentioned Kaka Haasrasi. And there are a couple of good Punjabi comedians I have seen recently. There is also a Johnny Carson type comic I saw on the Indian TV whose name I do not remember (Suman something?).

In my younger days, there were three Hindu owned urdu newspapers from Delhi, Partap, Milap and Tej. They all had a humourist and they were all good: Fikr (Tej) was one, ``Nepali`` was another and I forget the third one who wrote a column titled ``Pyaaz ke chhilke``.

Dhruva, ee article ta KHOOB bhalo!!!

But I don’t buy the ending where you make the incredible jump from the rigid view of one individual to ALL of the middle east! Let’s be serious, life is not that simple!

But I enjoyed the writing. I could not agree with you more that the best time for shopping is when a Football game is on. (One can even get some customer service.) I personally know some Afghan friends who are extremely good salespersons. However, none of them is anywhere as rigid in his/her religious views as Mr. Ahmed appears to be. In fact, some of them are highly liberal.

Notes:
[It was difficult to envisage Mr. Ahmed kicking back and enjoying some frivolous dance number or some cliché-ed romantic scene where some muscular love-hound would be cooing over his petite love-interest.]
Please give Hindi movies a break. They are not ALL bad!

[… very soon he had my wife interested in a couple of antique-looking couches that I would never touch with a ten-foot pole.]
Not much in the nature of a decision-making role for you, is there? My sympathies!

[But if there was, Mr. Ahmed was surely part of the collateral damage – a highly educated, progressive representative of a part of the world that had fallen behind of late. I couldn’t help wonder about the injustice of it all.]
Yes it is that, perhaps (I am sure Mr. Ahmed’s orthodox views did not help him), but probably mainly from the market realities of the capitalistic system itself!

[Because sane, rational individuals like you are the desperate need of the hour.]
Of ANY hour, in fact!

[With all the subtlety I could muster, I veered the conversation back to the couch at hand.]
Wise move!

[“He has no idea what he’s dealing with” she said absently. “No idea”, I thought gloomily, “he has absolutely no clue”.]
It has been said that democracy is a very lousy system, except it is better than anything else! So what else is there to try?

Other interactors:
#42, nhk
I could not agree with you more!

#56, hamidm2
Has anyone ever told you that you are HILARIOUS!

166 interacts?????........On this , er, article???....A lot of lonely young and old men on this site.........Since most of you are in north america, ever tried visiting strip clubs instead??....i guess you have to spend money......which brings me to assume that many of you are too senile, or just plain cheap, or constrained married men, eking out an existence in your plywood and cardboard(er, sheetrock) palaces,mortgaged to your eyeballs, or `code coolies` as you contemptously call yourselves in third person, living three to a dingy apartment, saving all the dollars you can, getting rid of your angst and frustration by beating each other up over topics that , atleast in urban india, hold no relevance or interest .This last week we urban indians in mumbai were talking about lakme india fashion week, a new trendy lounge bar that opened in Worli, Sania missing the Fed. cup tennis matches, the new movies to hit the multiplexes, will the price of petrol rise and other mundane trivia.Feel sorry for you guys.

#165

Keshto Mukherjee made his name by playing a stereotypical `sharabi`, when in reality he was a teetotaller, IIRC.

Jaspal Bhatti is an Indian giant in the difficult art of satire. He addressed a variety of social ills in his various movies/serials.

echoboom:

Hindu Comedians: Keshto Mukherjee, Rajinder Nath et al.

Sikh Comedians: Jaspal Bhatti, Jaswinder Bhalla.

Re: #162 by echoboom

[I can claim only 20% credit there ( 1000 years) if you concede. ]

Okay. Thanks for praising my society.

You should not have mentioned the 5000 years and the Muslim Rule together in that context.

It`s your English that is to blame, not me.

Ajeya:160
Read again:
[If a society can succeed, produce math wizards & three religions during five thousand years of its existence, in spite of muslim domination, then surely it must be doing something right.]

It was YOUR society I was praising. I can claim only 20% credit there ( 1000 years) if you
concede.

Now please go back and read each and every post of mine to truly understand what I wrote.

Dost-Mittar:
Please wipe his tears. He is truly scared.

dost-mittar:

Rajkapoor? maybe

but Om Prakash & gope for sure.


rahul_capri:

Are these authors available in right to left script? Could you post a favourite passage from Harishankar Parsayi in roman on unplugged someday. Please!

Re: # 161
I will try . I will ask someone to bring a copy from India .And no, I dont think they are available in nastaliq.

Re: #146 by echoboom

[If a society can succeed, produce math wizards & three religions during five thousand years of its existence, in spite of muslim domination, then surely it must be doing something right.]

I think you need to look beyond these excellent Madrassa text-books.

Muhammad was born about 1400 years ago in 570 AD.

The exquisitely cultured muslim invaders started bringing their superior message of peace to the Indian sub-continent another couple of hundred years later.

The vedas were written MANY thousands of years ago.

Buddha was born in 563 BC.

Mahavira was born in 599 BC.

BC comes BEFORE AD.

If there is a booming echo, it’s between your two ears.

#153 Harishankar Parsayi is a great humorist and satirist.
There are others like Shrilal shukla, Ashok Chakradhar etc. but Parsayi is my favorite.

Raj Kapoor! Om Parkash and, if you are in a generous mood, Gope.

dost-mittar:
Thanks.
Yeah he certainly was a peer--a giant.
Now how about movies?

Ajeya:154
Achhaa ubb hUmm Laloo ho gaey? aur hUm ney yeh kahaa thha Pichhwaan sey?

Yaani Aap Pichhwaan huay.

what is this Laloo aur PichhwaaN. I hope they are not swear words in hindi, vrnaa millimeter kee khair naheeN.

Re: #152 by echoboom

[Bhaee aap bohut dray huay haiN aur kaaNp rahay haiN.]

That’s what Laloo said to Paswan before the elections.


[Insha-Bhagwaan phir baat hoagee.]

Is that a wish, or a prediction?

If you have read my earlier post, you would realize that there is nothing to talk about. I would not even LISTEN to anything someone like that has to say, forget about believe in it. To discuss something someone says, that person needs to have some respect and credibility in my eyes.


[mgar voh millimeter vali baat toa reh gaee]

Barbaric practices like hacking off the foreskin predates islam. It was a common practice long before God parachuted down on some mountain to whisper deep secrets to the Chosen One.

I guess I will have to pass up this circumcision thing, and give up an eternity with 72 houris. Or is it 73? Which is the holier number? I give up.

hamidm2:147
It is simply a humble token and acknowledgemnt of appreciation for your own contributions to keep me in stititches--otherwise I would have been running wild & naked here. ( some think I already do--they can see through me)

Do you know of any hindu comedian? Johnny lever doesn`t count--a Shaivite is not a propper hindu.

As writers Kanhayya Laal Kapoor & Fikr Taunsvee are known for their biting & bitter satire--never for humor.

Anyone?

Re: # 153

Peer Ratan Nath Sarshaar!

Ajeya: 150/151
Bhaee aap bohut dray huay haiN aur kaaNp rahay haiN. Insha-Bhagwaan phir baat hoagee.
mgar voh millimeter vali baat toa reh gaee.

Re: #149 by echoboom

[Retreat is not defeat--it is strategy.]

Even with a broom-handle sticking out?

Good strategy!

Heh, heh.

Re: #146 by echoboom

[Just when Ajeya thought that the going was good for him]

It’s not? Mommy!


[Please advise what to do with those hindu friends of mine who spare no effort to bad-mouth India simply to get invited to eat nihari & others anti-hindu delectables. They have also told me not to point out the meat-source. Now I`m no liberal, as you might have guessed by now.]

Do nothing. I eat everything. Including pork. Just goes to show that Hindus are much more likely to break free of age-old norms. Not that all Hindus should. Or need to. There is that kind of openness in our society. If they eat beef, nbody is going to excommunicate them or chase them up a tree to shoot them.

If an inanimate wooden cross or the stone at Mecca can be considered holy, then an animate thing like a cow can be considered holy as well. You don’t see it because of your limited intelligence and therefore, imagination.

[In fact they nod approvingly about the Quranic laws of Dhimmi-hood, wistfully remembering the days when the brahmans were king and the hindu-version of dhimmis was not restricted to mere four castes.]

If they nod wistfully then they are either:
1) Abject morons, which would explain them seeking out your company, or
2) Way smarter than you, and eating well at your expense.

By the way, have you ever heard them talking to each other when there are no muslims around? :-)

[when the brahmans were king]

Brahmans were never king, the Kshatriyas were. Most of them were also very poor. Except for the ones with royal patronage.

[the hindu-version of dhimmis was not restricted to mere four castes]

There was never a Hindu version of Dhimmis. The Parsees who fled islamic persecution and found refuge in India and the Jews were never looked down upon. That’s because they never destroyed/desecrated Hindu temples or forced anyone to convert. The Muslims created their own image in India (and the rest of the world).

AND REMEMBER! MANY HINDUS HAVE ALWAYS HAVE SPOKEN OUT AGAINST CASTE OPPRESSION.

I WOULD LIKE TO SEE ONE GUTSY PAKI SPEAK OUT PUBLICLY AGAINST THE CONCEPT OF DHIMMIS. THAT IT SHOULD BE ABOLISHED. AND THAT THE QURAN IS WRONG ON THIS.

THEIR LIFE INSURANCE PREMIUMS WOULD SKYROCKET VERY QUICKLY.

:-)

[Satis and kiryaa karams]

Sati was a social ill. Nothing to do with Hindu philosophy.

But stoning to death is in the Quran. Heh heh.
[Tell me, Ajeya, what to do with the Nehru type brahmins & even Gandhi-type non-brahmins who are more at home with muslims and were naver afraid of them. How come you fear muslims when they are not dominant anymore.]

I told you what to do with them above.

Why do I fear them even when they are not dominant?

Like I have mentioned before, the reason is that the vermin among them are too cowardly to fight out in the open. Because then, they ALWAYS lose. Instead, they are very good at deception and stabbing you in the back. Throwing a grenade from within a crowd etc.

This is why people have burglar alarms in their house. Not because they are afraid and the burglars are brave. It is because the burglars take advantage of one’s lack of preparedness. Face to face, in daylight, the burglar doen’t stand much of a chance. It’s their sneakiness and lowdown cowardliness that is the problem.

[You will always be safe when muslims are the rulers. Such is the natural order of things.

So it is, and so shall it be written.]

Without being more expicit, I would only say that one should always look to a person’s character before one even listens to, let alone believe in anything anybody has to say. And if you cannot believe, what have you got? A BIG NOTHING. That, my friend, is the basis for your existence.

Idiots will always have their heads in the sand, with their rear ends sticking up. And we will always be planting our boots deep inside their rear ends. Such is the natural order of things. So it is, and so shall it be written.

:-)

Ajeya:148
And with such impressive figures you are still not happy.

Of course India is prospering. You are simply expressing the obvious. It will be a sonay kee chRRyaa again ( golden goose--for the english-medium).

And the ones across from the Hindukush are already drooling; are in a frenzy trying to break-loose their tethers. Some of them have already crossed the durand-line & Mcmohan line. they have camaflouged the images & blurred the number on the Pak ID cards. Their second generation is day & night busy to produce the third one.

They have already conquered Pakistan.

Now they are getting restless & raring to go. Like hounds on a short leash, they are jumping on the front paws and snarling at musharraf.

Musharraf is trying to contain their frenzy:

Excerpt from the daily `` Zalalat`` april 23, 2005

`` Impatience is not a virtue, let your pot come to a boil first and let their pots fill up with more gold & $s. Today its only a bit over 3 trillion dollars,Ajeya says so--cuminseed in the mouth of a camel--(Oont kay munh meiN zeera). Won`t be enough for another 700 years at the rate you breed. Discount it for inflation too; the US $ is down!

Am I not doing enough U-turns? If I can do it once, can I not it again? Retreat is not defeat--it is strategy. Am I visiting my Nehr valee Haveli in vain? Have they not already promised me for its upkeep for the return of the native?

Braathraan! Their will comea time in the life of men when hindus will sieze the hindus and muslims will sieze the hindus, not in the secular sense, but in that long-awaited bear-hug which will eliminate all the difference in their anatomies. When..well you know, you have all been practicing that for a while on fellow lesser-muslims.

The hindu-coolies are hard at work and we must applaud & encourage them for the hard work they are doing for us. Let their temples become full and their hearts become weak for who does not know that with hoarded money comes insecurity, and insecurity leads to cowardice. It is not a hindu failing, it is a human failing. That is why muslims have been instructed never to save money and distribute it all within his lifetime, but who listens...

--no wonder the pot is not coming to a boil.``

Re: #146 by echoboom

[It is always the die-hard and practicing-types who always tell the truth.]

If you keep practicing, you will die hard one of these days. Maybe with a Indian Army broom handle lodged in your rear.


[First no `cure` should be sought]

Don’t you wish. But a cure has been sought. And found. For practicing types like you. The broom handle. Indian Army brand.

[and thirdly the tubes must be removed or kept at the individual`s or his friend`s/relative`s expense and discomfort.]

Huh?

[May the best Darwin`s monkey win!]

You are living with your head in the sand, my friend.

According to 2003 estimates, the purchasing power parities of India and Pakistan are as follows:

Indid - $3.033 trillion

Pakistan - $318 billion

Just for your reference, the numbers for USA and UK were in 2003:

USA - $10.99 trillion

UK - $1.666 trillion

(Source: The CIA World Factbook)

That was in 2003. This is 2005. Do your Madrassa-math. The gap with Pakistan will have widened further, and decreased further with the US. In the near future, India’s IT revenues alone will be greater than the entire GDP of the Land of the Pure.

Very soon, Pakistan will cease to even have a nuisance value for India. And the US will cease to be a protection for Pakistan. Musharraf recognizes this. That’s why he is in India currying favour. The remaining jehadi types like yourself will be scurrying back across the border to the promised land with broom handles bumping on the ground behind them.

And forget about winning. If you are dreaming of hordes of Indian Hindus converting over to Islam, you have another thought coming. India is getting more prosperouus. At the current rate of growth, by 2025, the number of people below the poverty line will be 10%. There goes your intellectual (and discerning) target audience. And hindus are increasingly more self-confident and assertive. Left-wing weenies like Stuka are increasingly in the minority.

IF YOU THINK THAT IT’S ONLY THE RSS/VHP TYPES WHO HARBOR GRIEVANCES, YOU ARE DEAD WRONG.

There is a very deep, broad-based and abiding dislike for people of your ilk, amongst Hindus across the nation. This is why even opportunistic and conveniently-right-wing politician can make hay. Hindus remember all the insults heaped upon them through the ages. The mosques built out of temple stones are scattered all over the country. Even in Benaras and Mathura!

With increased prosperity, and self-confidence, this conciousness will become more vocal. There will be questions of formal apologies, and past wrongs that should be righted.

AND THEY SHOULD BE.

Why not forget the past, you ask? The past should be forgotten? Ever heard about affirmative action?

Without winged angels descending to give the Pure People a huge handicap, I would say things are not looking too good for you jehadi types.

Heh, heh, heh.

Ok Ok This 1:7 ratio theory if true, should make sense.

But where are the Seven hamidm2`s from the other side?
This disproves the theory.


and whoever wrote in that post that non-enforcement of the full-monty Quran is really THE problem.

TRUE!..for hindus! It is always the die-hard and practicing-types who always tell the truth. CHOWK is all the more richer because of them ( & me!). It is the human-right-activists from the Ba Ba blacksheep schools who allow the cancer within humans to linger and spread.
First no `cure` should be sought, secondly nobody should be on a respirator, and thirdly the tubes must be removed or kept at the individual`s or his friend`s/relative`s expense and discomfort.

May the best Darwin`s monkey win!


Meanwhile,
Just when Ajeya thought that the going was good for him:

aJeya:
Please advise what to do with those hindu friends of mine who spare no effort to bad-mouth India simply to get invited to eat nihari & others anti-hindu delectables. They have also told me not to point out the meat-source. Now I`m no liberal, as you might have guessed by now.

These hindus are unfraid of even the fundamentalist mullahs who are in majority in such gatherings. In fact they nod approvingly about the Quranic laws of Dhimmi-hood, wistfully remembering the days when the brahmans were king and the hindu-version of dhimmis was not restricted to mere four castes. When even a hindu-dhimmi had the privilege of having his own private pet sub-set of dhimmis.

AAH those were the days, these fair-colored and unfair-weather friends lamented, when they presided over Satis and kiryaa karams and had no time to dwell upon muslim killing fellow muslims. If a society can succeed, produce math wizards & three religions during five thousand years of its existence, in spite of muslim domination, then surely it must be doing something right. The theory of earth on the horns of a cow & its latest paradigm about a monkey swinging on the branch of every family tree has never ever interfered with any scientific & technical pursuit . It is these Brits who sowed the seeds of discord amongst us
and separated the Badriprashaad from Badruudeen.

`` Pehlay toa hUmm chhupp chhuup kar maass khaa laitay thhay, mgar yeh suusray dalit ubb naa hUmeiN janitor bnnai daitaiN haiN, naa hUmm sey phairay lgvaatay haiN. Adult relationship kau takhail naheeN bahu boltay haiN aur humaari mrzee kay binaa bijli kee machine meiN bhussUm ho jaatay haiN. Hae raam, iss sey toa musalmaan honaa achha.
kUM uz kUM uun kay mullah kee maanG toa hai--O meiN toa muslim honay chalaa:

`` Koi naee ko bulaaO, koi mullah ko puukaaro
Koi meri choti kaato, koi dhoti ko uutaaro

...........O meiN toa muslim honay chala``!

Tell me, Ajeya, what to do with the Nehru type brahmins & even Gandhi-type non-brahmins who are more at home with muslims and were naver afraid of them. How come you fear muslims when they are not dominant anymore.

Maybe it really is time that you invite afghans like Mr. tahmed back for dinner. The sudden love and respect for afghanis & iranians by hindus like you must have renewed that 700- year itch.

You will always be safe when muslims are the rulers. Such is the natural order of things.

So it is, and so shall it be written.

P.S: But a few millimeter of clipping of ``that`` would certain cure you of the fear of `first blood`. Please think about it. You can still be a closet hindu--like hamidm2.

Re: # 146

echo, i know i am going to hate myself for saying this, but your post did make me smile .......

Re: #97 by Thamizhan

[Well you have admitted here you are a coward and your hate is fueled by your cowardice.]

Okay you got me there. :-)

[We have enough trouble trying to change our image of being ``soft``.]

See, I wasn’t aware of such a program. :-)

[This image came about all cuz Hindus did not have a sense of common community and did not care what happens to other Hindus (comes from an individualistic belief system w/salvation depending on the individual).]

Umm really? Alrighty then. My anthropology professor messed up big time, dammit!

So all the Indian freedom fighters were just aberrations? And all the other people who participated? Did you know how much money was raised privately by communities (who are primarily Hindu) for the people maimed by the Kargil war? No, you were probably too busy in your romantic endeavours.

[We all die and using a cliche here--``its a matter of when and how``.]

Just make sure it’s not in Pakistan on top of a tree. When her family (and the rest of the village) is chasing you, don’t even look at trees. Head for the desert. Take a cactus-camouflage suit with you. Or maybe a camel-camouflage. Both have their advantages. With the camel camouflage, you can surreptitiosly keep inching towards the Indian border. With the cactus camouflage, nobody would be tempted to ride you, or make any overt sexual advances.

By the way, are you getting a circumcision and converting?

Because if you are not, read up the chapter in the Quran about what should be your fate. No mercy from Allah for you there, buddy.

And if you are converting, now who’s the coward?

:-)

#140

MaheshG2:

Before you post anything like this again, read this

http://www.dalitstan.org/journal/buddhism/bud000/gun_fod.html

regards,

haideri

Re: #138 by hamidm2 , #122 by tahmed32

[there are very few pakistanis i have seen come to chowk with the same attitude. and the few who do (like urstruly or ali) dont get other pakistanis jumping to defend them like i see indians doing. there is a cultural difference here.]

[......... i am beginning to see your point - our echoboom seems to be outnumbered by people of his ilk from the wrong side of the border .......... maybe it is simply a reflection of the population ratio - one wild eyed jihadi vs. seven crazed shiv sainiks]

I was about to say this myself. There’s the population ratio, as well as the ratio of people who have access to the computer and/or use the internet regularly.

#122 by tahmed32

[there is a cultural difference here.]

If I were you, I wouldn’t even go there.

I had a friend (hindu) from Burma who once who related a story to me. Every time there was some disturbance in Israel/Palestine, the local mullah would organize a protest march. One day he saw a few of his classmates in the procession. Later he asked some of them what the protest was all about. THEY DIDN’t EVEN KNOW. The very rumour that some muslim was being oppressed somewhere was good enough for them to be marching and screaming.

I would contrast that with hindus in India and the rest of the world. Most don’t even have a clue about Hindus being oppressed in places like say Fiji or Sri Lanka or Pakistan or Bangladesh or Afghanistan.

The Hornet’s Nest mentality is uniquely muslim (with the caveat of a few decent muslims).

Re: #134 by tahmed32

[So: In other words, your justification is that you are monkeying ali and echoboom. And thus trying your best to prove ali and echoboom are right by acting like a monkey. Brilliant!! You my friend are a genius.]

Thank you. I keep telling people that I am a genius. But nobody seems to listen. If only there were more perceptive types like yourself.

But to get back to your point.

The reference to “Paki butt” was to the Pakistani Army types who keep providing covering fire to jehadis crossing over. Or the ones that attacked at Kargil. Or those pakistanis that believe in proving “moral support” to the Kashmiris.

Maybe I could have been more explicit, but I was running late, and had to post in a hurry. “You ba$tards” and “you guys” also refer to people of echoboom’s ilk.

Same with “You muslims”, because I have seen people like echoboom and Urstruly say things like “One muslim is equivalent to ten hindus in a fight”. And echoboom was saying how hindus are cowards and scared to fight and might need a circumcision to remedy it.

Maybe the juxtaposition of the two sentences made it seem like I was referring to all Pakistanis. I was not.

As I said before, I have and had in the past many kind and thoughtful Pakistani friends.

This was a case of collateral damage.

It is not wonderful when you detach yourself from reality. You I am sure do not distinguish between people on the basis of religion - but you detach yourself from reality when you say that ``concept of judging people on the basis of their religion is lost on us.``

Tahmed sahib, this sounds really funny coming from you.

You are the one claiming Pakistanis do not hate as much as the Indians do. When

1) Pakistanis killed millions of their own countrymen.

2) Pakistan is an Islamic republic with non-muslims relegated to second class status.

3) Pakistan has a huge Jehadi culture with jehadi exports to all over the world.

4) Pakistani high school, middle school syllabus has references to how Hindus/Indians are bad.

If Indians are detached from reality then what about you?

DivisionBell #126: I think my friend that you are confusing arrogance with self-esteem, when in fact arrogance results from a LACK of self-esteem. It is wonderful that India is progressing so well nowadays. It is not wonderful when you detach yourself from reality. You I am sure do not distinguish between people on the basis of religion - but you detach yourself from reality when you say that ``concept of judging people on the basis of their religion is lost on us.`` Unfortunately it is not lost on you: see arstoo #128 to whom I just responded, and of course chowk is littered with such examples. And hindu extremism is a sad fact that you ignore as well - with national level leaders like Advani demonstrating their courage by demolishing ancient mosques, and others demonstrating their manhood by burning 12 year old girls to death on account of their being muslims.

I share your aspirations for people in south asia (Pakistanis and Indians and other nations) reaching a level of civilization that exists, for example, in the United States today where people can practice their respective faiths in dignity and without mobs bashing one another`s head. But that day has not yet arrived. It is people like you (who are to be found in india as well as pakistan) who are the hope of the future for all of us - but that does not mean you should close your eyes to the ugly realities that exist in these societies (indian or pakistani).

Re: # 136
good point,
Tahmed, this Farooq, is he a cousin of yours? Just wondering?

arstoo #128: So, now muslims are peaceful people, it is only the Quran that is evil. By now I am convinced that there is a secret factory in India where they produce specimen like you.

Re: # 135

tahmed,

......... i am beginning to see your point - our echoboom seems to be outnumbered by people of his ilk from the wrong side of the border .......... maybe it is simply a reflection of the population ratio - one wild eyed jihadi vs. seven crazed shiv sainiks

Re: # 135

Dear Tahmet,

Please counter my facts.

Thanks

Re: # 137

The fact is that no non-muslim should read the quran without a tafseer by Maulana tahmed32. :-)

Ajeya #129: In response to my suggestion to avoid using abusive language (you were calling all muslims ba$stards`` as you got carried away in the heat of your own rhetoric), you provide me with references from echoboom and ali where they call hindus monkeys.

So: In other words, your justification is that you are monkeying ali and echoboom. And thus trying your best to prove ali and echoboom are right by acting like a monkey. Brilliant!! You my friend are a genius.

Re: #106 by ali_1

[kala-kaloota, ugly, stinking Injun like yourself]
[I am sure both he and his camel will mount you from the rear togethr]


Actually I’m very fair. Definitely a lot fairer than most on the recent Paki cricket team. I got my fair complexion because I am a Brahmin by birth, and more Brahmins are fair-complexioned than not. That is because of thousands of years of marrying moslty within the caste.

The people of Indus Valley (currently Pakistan) were mostly not very fair. You more than likely got your fair complexion when the smelly barbarians along with their camels mounted your great-great…….great-grandmother from the rear together. And I say this not as a joke. It is the historic truth.

Just ask the geneticists.

:-)

P.S. There are many camel-jockeys that are very african looking and very dark. And many Iranians are dark as well. Even in the hallowed Saudi Royal family to whom you guys have perpetually offered your rear. Prince Bandar – looks like a lot of African blood.

Re: #106 by ali_1

[I can believe that there are racist Iranians and Arabs who look down upon Pakistanis]

Racist Iranians? You mean unlike YOU? Here’s this statement you made in the same post:

[absolutely refuse to believe that these same Iranians and Arabs would want to piss on the face of, let alone talk to a kala-kaloota, ugly, stinking Injun like yourself.]

Re: #106 by ali_1

[I can believe that there are racist Iranians and Arabs who look down upon Pakistanis]

Racist Iranians? You mean unlike YOU? Here’s this statement you made in the same post:

[absolutely refuse to believe that these same Iranians and Arabs would want to piss on the face of, let alone talk to a kala-kaloota, ugly, stinking Injun like yourself.]

Re: #79 by echoboom

[Where do I sign? and when do I take title of land of Kashmir & repatriate my brethren.?]

Down, boy, down. Never within your lifetime. Or your great-great-grandchildren’s.

Because, as always in history, Muslims would not honour the treaties they signed to never come in (eg. The treaty signed with Lord Mountbatten – the original Kashmir agreement that Jinnah signed), and they would start a neucleus of a settlement somewhere and start their usual inexorable expansion-oriented activities.


[But what will you do if more and more hindus convert, even after this, do I get more land
for a fresh crop of muslims ?]

With no Mullahs around, there would be no question of conversion.

Nobody would conceivably want to convert if they actually knew the facts that are ALWAYS obscured from potential converts.

Usually the people that convert are either famous people with some mental deficiency like Muhammad Ali (Alzheimer’s), or with brilliant minds like Mike Tyson. I hear that Islam is the fastest spreading religion amongst the black prison populations in America.

Anyone with an axe to grind against society is exploited to the hilt. In India and everywhere else. VERY few well-educated people convert.

Re: #81 by tahmed32

[Ajeya: bhai sahib, musalmaanoN ko gaaliaN deynay ki zaroorat (or should I say jaroorat) nahiN hai.]

How about these galis:

Post #28 by echoboom (it was later filtered out) : a reference to the “hanuman” deity worshipped in many parts of India.

Post#32 by Ali_1: About “Bundho-padhay” with reference to an earlier dirty echoboom post comparing the name with passing gas.

Post#74 by echoboom: [But honestly a clipping of ` that` a few millimeter does eliminate the fear of the sight of `first blood` .

[can you laugh loudly now, without leaking...]]


My post #78 was made after MUCH provocation. The recipients deserved as much, and more.

Dear Friends,

Let us not indulge in hate mongering.

First of all all the Muslim interactors should read Upanishads and try to understand them.

All non muslim, interactors should read Koran.

I have read Koran and my findings are Muslims are the peace loving people who do not indulge in activities prescribed by Koran.

Koran tells true believers to kill non belivers. Kill their children. Kill their wives. Kill ther families. Loot their houses. Take over their properties. And God understands. God is kind. Koran tells them not to trust non muslims. It tells them it is OK to treat non muslims as sub human.

Now behind this backdrop, Muslims dont indulge in even 20% of the activities. In a way that is good for all of us.

Thanks

Arstoo

PS: By the way I was thinking of ARASTOO as my username at chowk, but with typo error it became arstoo, It is one and same thing

Re: #117 by stuka

[Echoboom:

What would you say about 116? Seems like ethnicity beats religious affiliation any day...]

I hate to interrupt this love-fest (or is this one-sided infatuation?), but I want you (Stuka) to ask echoboom these two questions:

1) Does he believe in the concept of Dhimmis (if he doesn’t, he’s a blasphemer, and deserves to be killed, right?)

2) What does he think about the imposition of the Jizya tax on Dhimmis in that heaven-on-earth, also known as Dar-Us-Salam (or some such thing). Again, if he doesn’t believe in it, he’s a blasphemer, and deserves to be killed, according to his holy book - correct?

What position would you (Stuka) have in his idyllic Dar-Us-Salam. Would you need a circumcision? Or just paying the tax as a Dhimmi would suffice?

You guys need to weed out any potential problems in your relationship before it matures.

#122

Sir,

I fail to see the equivalence between being arrogant to ridiculing a nation/religion. Indians of my generation are fairly confident about the nation and this leads to arrogance/chest thumping at times. At no point does it imply that we belittle someone else. The concept of judging people on the basis of their religion is lost on us. I saw no such bias while studying in a residential college with people from all over the country, except in an insignificant minority.

Most of us grew up in a fairly plural society, and our mistrust of nations are largely based on state policies and not on religion.

regards,

echoboom:
``In what way is it my thinking dost?``

...because it provides intellectual support for your notion that religious identities are the most important identities.

echoboom:
``In what way is it my thinking dost?``

...because it provides intellectual support for your notion that religious identities are the most important identities.

.........``You may be happy to learn that some intellectuals support your thinking too.``.......

[dost-mittar:107]

---

In what way is it my thinking dost?

I`ve read the entire stuff and I really regret doing so. Just look at the first two paragraphs:

[Dr. Kakar, a psychiatrist in New Delhi, notes that his study is not grounded in psychoanalytic theory. His book is a trained clinician`s cold-eyed analysis of a complex, emotionally charged, social problem. As his case study, Kakar took the Hindu-Muslim violence of 1990 in the south Indian city of Hyderabad, where 300 people were killed.

Based on his field research and the psychological measurements, Kakar argues that beginning in childhood the social identity of every Indian is grounded in his or her religious community, which in times of intercommunity conflict, readily erupts into violent communalism. ]
...................................................................................................................................

Moreover Psychology and Psyshiatry is nothing but Licensed Dubbaa Peeri and Drug-pushing. After the glory days when economists ruled the roost [ to counter russia],
the sunshine days of soc.pol.sci kind of socialism thru NGOism emerged & the secular-missionaries fanned out to bring home the bacon to the western swines.

Now the choicest route is to get a few Shankars on ones side and start casting aspersions on the other`s childhood traumas to figure-out the reason why someone does not responds to advertisements & gallup-polls in a normal manner [``when there was peace, he was for peace: when there was war, he went``...W.H Auden; the unknown citizen]

This ``science`` to explain margins-of-error from standard deviations in the bell curves and bottom lines so as to milk a human to the last drop of his/her sweat-sperm-milk
is what is truly diabolical & Satanic in the westrn world.

``Yeh ilm-O-hikmat kee mohraa-baazi, yeh beh-O-takraar kee nuumaaesh
naheeN hai duunyaa ko ubb gavaara, puuraanay afkaar kee nuumaaesh
tiri kitaaboaN meiN aye hakeem-i muaash aakhir rakhha hee kyaa hai
khutoot-e khUmdaar kee nuumaaesh, mreez-e kUjdaar kee nuumaaesh
Jahaan-e maghrib kay buutkadoaN meiN, kaleesyaaoN, meiN mdrassoaN meiN
Havas kee khooNraizyaan chuupaatee hai, Aqual-i ayyaar kee nuumaaesh``
.........................................................................................ALLAMA Iqbal.......................

tr:
This board-game of information-&-intellect, This facade of debate & discussion!
No! the world can no longer continue with the obsolete theories and practice.
Oh economist! pray tell me what is so precious in your books, except
Some fancy curves & lines and some tilted-bowl kind of of graphs,

In the temples, churches, and the schools of the western world
its blood-thirty greed and lust hidden behind the devious intellectual exhibits.

---

Such posthumous ``cold-case-file`` forensic-psychiatary is fast becoming unfashionable now because with increased internet-exchange & immigration the western knowledge-pegs are being moved & shaken. People openly make fun of and ridicule these Universitised Dubba peers. The arrival of Sanyaasi babaas, Peers , Faqueers (who by-the-way are not licensed to drive you crazy & do not have their tarriffs guaranteed), would soon put these english-proud nutcase ``consellors`` and `` practioners`` where they really belong--you got it!

DivisionBell: Other people from india DONT have this need to ridicule other people`s nationality or religion. This is the specialty of indians on chowk - there is no pakistani equivalent of a jay or an arjun and the countless other indians i have seen come to chowk with a chip on their shoulder. there are very few pakistanis i have seen come to chowk with the same attitude. and the few who do (like urstruly or ali) dont get other pakistanis jumping to defend them like i see indians doing. there is a cultural difference here.

#120

You are quite right, I indulged in it too when I first came to the US. I think it is borne out of our need to project civilizational strength after the battering it took under the white man.

This sort of attitude is not all bad though, the Chinese have a similar mentality, atleast it propels us to new levels of achievement.

That being said, it can sound downright arrogant to people from other nations in the sub-continent, as their need to assert their national identities is as strong if not stronger.

Ajeya,

I duely apologise for that remark, case of not practicing what I preached.

regards,

indians have this arrogance about everything was indian around the indian sub-continent which makes others nervous. the first time i went to srilanka, i displayed this and was firmly told to fck off by srilankans. i learn my lesson now..although its true that everything is indian, dont say it IN YOUR FACE.

117 by stuka on April 22, 2005 12:58pm PT
116:

The first sensible post from Cayenne. Congrats!!!

........I`ve been dreaming `bout being driven around lahore in a `Qing Qi`, driven by a jolly, rotund punjabi with ear hairs flapping in the wind, eating chicken and gulping some forbidden nectar, if i can get away with it.Guess who was my inspiration for the Qing Qi driver??

116:

The first sensible post from Cayenne. Congrats!!!

Echoboom:

What would you say about 116? Seems like ethnicity beats religious affiliation any day...

I must be quite thick in the head. `cause i`m surprised how this article has attracted so much blather.Even after a generous and copious consumption of amrit , i am still shaking my head after reading.What is going on with muslims??.Their so-called `brotherhood` principle is also shattering to smithereens.Bad enough that malaysia(a muslim country) rounded up illegal indonesians(another muslim country) in the middle of the night and deported them out of malaysia without even giving tham a chance to get a clean pair of underwear, couple of days ago, the Iranians started beating up on their Arab minority and started to throw them outof their regions!!.Al jazeera, cause of reporting this, has now been asked to get outof Iran.In pakistan, the Balochis are demanding independance and the pak govt. can`t even enter NWFP!!!.We indians aren`t doing too badly off eh??.All we got is `Lallu`` calling Modi a `rat` and blaming him for the stone throwing at his car in Samalya.Chuckle.

Nice article, well written.. It`s true that an average muslim is much more religious and irrational when compared to an average hindu or an average christian..

While I can go to any place in my state in India, talk ill about hinduism, ridicule the hindu gods, their scriptures, I`d still be alive, and kicking and infact would even be elected to represent the people 90% of whom are Hindus.

hamidm`s quotes are as usual funny. it is equally funny and sad to hear about the professor who was awarded the death sentence.. Islam has a nice in-built check for branding any one who questions the irrational dogmas as a ``blasphemer`` and silencing his /her voice through killing.. But with internet and other free media, people can read or learn the truths about their religion / their founder / atleast question those irrational beliefs anonymously..without fear of getting killed.. It`s ideal that reforms come from within, but unfortunately due to forced circumstances, reforms are coming through trailer park lyndies.. :-))

DM #112,

What are you trying to say? Hindus are welcome in Bangladesh and have nothing to fear there? That Bangladeshi society is very tolerant?

You yourself said that Hindus were being persecuted and many had to flee Bangladesh. Sounds like complete contradiction to me.

Re: # 114

No contradiction! Life is not all black or white but shades of grey. I did not say on the other board that there are no happy hindus in Bangladesh and I did not say on this board that they are not leaving that country because of the hardships they are facing there. Moreover, if you notice, on the other board I was talking about Bangladeshi Hindus and on this board I am talking about Indian hindu businessmen.

kaurasach #103 I dislike (despise, in fact) hindu extremists. Just as I despise muslim extremists, or in fact any individual who commits or condones violence against innocent people for whatever reason. But I dont seek out hindu extremist boards to go and tell them that I despise them and their monkey king Modi. The reason is simple: life is too short to be wasted in the company of lowlife.

I see that you have not taken my sincere advice, and instead of not responding if you found it too difficult to give a straight answer, you chose to respond with a bunch of baloney about your coming here only to interact (which says nothing - of course we all come here to interact. What else are you going to do on a discussion board?? Dance the bhangra??)

So let me give you the straight answer you couldnt tell: the reason you (and others like you) badmouth Pakistanis day in day out is because that is a form of entertainment for people who are incapable of discussing anything else, incapable of any real humor, too insecure to laugh at themselves. This is the same reason you seek out the company of those in real life of those lowlife you talked about, people who use the occassion of socializing to bad mouth other people behind their back.

MaheshG:

``On the other hand generalizing based on your experience would be misleading, no?``

My case was not unique. There were other Hindus, especially Indian businessmen who had no problems in Dhaka. The problems hindus are facing in villages is a combination of religious intolerance and greed. There is also a political element to it - Hindus vote en bloc for Awami League, which makes them a natural target of the wrath of the BNP workers in the bitterly polarised polity of Bangladesh.

Actually, since we are all Muslims we should all have no problems worshipping in each other`s way.

I can bow my head to the Kaaba and recite the namaz 5 times a day and some of our Muslims friends can come to a temple and pray to lord Rama.

Actually, since we are all Muslims we should all have no problems worshipping in each other`s way.

I can bow my head to the Kaaba and recite the namaz 5 times a day and some of our Muslims friends can come to a temple and pray to lord Rama.

````HE`` refers to the president. bundho-padhay is saying that the president has no idea what he is dealing with, that ALL ONE BILLION MUSLIMS are as much a chutya``

Ali

Oh, I thought HE refers to the furniture seller. That the guy has no clue about a multi-cultural society or something. But u are right, I missed over the preceding sentence. I agree, it is chutiapa to draw that kind of a conclusion from one person.

More importantly, that furniture seller DID NOT say anything that was antithetical to democracy. Just coz he thought man`s origin was Islam? By that logic the entire christian coalition belt from kansas to Kentucky would have no clue about democracy either coz they believe in creationism...Since when did a person`s religious belief be considered subversion of a democratic system.

I do not know if the author is interacting on this board but I would like to raise this issue strongly.

echoboom:

You may be happy to learn that some intellectuals support your thinking too. I just read this review of a book by a well-known Hindu Indian intellectual/psychiatrist, Sudhir Kakar. You may want to read the review at:
http://www.sulekha.com/news/nhc.aspx?cid=422193

Some excerpts:

``Based on his field research and the psychological measurements, Kakar argues that beginning in childhood the social identity of every Indian is grounded in his or her religious community, which in times of intercommunity conflict, readily erupts into violent communalism.``

``Among the most revealing sections of The Colors of Violence are his analyses of the speeches of two typical demagogues, one from each community. Ubedullah Khan Azmi, a member of Parliament, and secretary of the Muslim Personal Law Conference, said: ``...And you [Hindus] raise slogans about Muslim loyalty. Have you ever looked at your own face in the mirror? It was the believers in the Qur`an who taught you the graces of life, taught you how to eat and drink. All you had before us were tomatoes and potatoes. What did you have? We brought jasmine, we brought frangipani. We gave the Taj Mahal, we gave the Red Fort. India was made India by us. We have lived here for eight hundred years and we made India shine.... Our personal law is being proscribed, our community`s very way of life is being restricted. Beware, history may repeat itself. Atal Behari Vajpayee may have to read the kalma [i.e., convert to Islam]....`` [The two things he concedes the Hindus had before the Muslim invasions, namely tomatoes and potatoes, they certainly didn`t have.]

Kakar also analyzes the speech of a typical Hindu demagogue. Sadhavi Rithambra, a young Punjabi Hindu, she is a charismatic speaker for the``Hindutva`` cause. In her speech after the Hyderabad riots, she said: ``I have come to the Hindus of Bhagyanagar [Hyderabad] with a message...We have never said, `O. World! Believe in our Upanishads, Believe in our Gita. Otherwise you are an infidel and by cutting off the head of an infidel one gains paradise.` Our sentiments are not so low. They are not narrow-minded. They are not dirty. We see the world as our family.... In Kashmir, the Hindu was a minority and was hounded out of the valley. Slogans of `long live Pakistan` were carved with red hot iron rods on the thighs of our Hindu daughters. Try to feel the unhappiness and the pain of the Hindu who became a refugee in his own country.... What is this impartiality toward all religions where the mullahs get the moneybags and Hindus the bullets? We also want religious impartiality but not of the kind where only Hindus are oppressed....People say there should be Hindu-Muslim unity. Leave the structure of the Babri mosque undisturbed. I say, `Then let`s have this unity in case of the Jama masjid too. Break half of it and construct a temple. Hindus and Muslims will then come together.` ``

``Dr. Kakar accurately diagnoses the major malady as symptomized in Azmi`s repeated assertion of Muslims` having come from the outside. ``There has been a historical tendency among upper-class Muslims (or those aspiring to higher status in the community) to stress or invent Persian, Arab, or Turkish ancestry rather than rest content with their more humble Indian origins.... The nature of the vicious circle is immediately apparent: the anchoring of Muslim identity in Islam spurs Hindu suspicion of Muslim loyalty to the nation, which makes Muslims draw closer in the religious community for security, which further fuels Hindu distrust of Muslim patriotism, and so on.`` Kakar quotes an earlier study of Hyderabad Muslims by anthropologist S.C.Dubey: ``A Hindu untouchable of yesterday becomes a Muslim today; and tomorrow he will start proclaiming that his forefathers lived in Arabia.``

#45 by Ajeya on April 21, 2005 9:27pm PT

``Many Iranians have told me that they look down upon Pakistanis, and many Arabs have told me the same. ``

I can believe that there are racist Iranians and Arabs who look down upon Pakistanis, but I absolutely refuse to believe that these same Iranians and Arabs would want to piss on the face of, let alone talk to a kala-kaloota, ugly, stinking Injun like yourself.

``Just by trying to sidle up to camel jockeys``
``try to write in a camel-jockey script``

Ajeya, have you called your (imaginary?) Arab friend ``camel jockey`` to his face? Try it man.... I am sure both he and his camel will mount you from the rear togethr and remove the fear of muslims from your heart for ever.

#101,

Hmmm, you make sense. One of your rare moments.

Re: TheDivisionBell

[I reiterate that it`s the likes of you that gived Indians a bad name.]


So that`s not ad-hominem? Huh?

#92,

You are dellusional if you think I seek anything. I simply come here to interact.

Seeking company of Pakis and that too anons. i wouldn`t do that if I was mad.

I didn`t know that in your book, interacting on issues is the same thing as `seeking company`.

There are a few Pakis here that are good - at least from their interactions.

I don`t think you are the owner of Chowk. When the owners tell this site is for Pakis only, I will stop coming on my own.


And lastly, If I don`t come here, ``jehray wigday hoye nay, ohna nu akal kaun deway ga....tuhanu sidds kaun karega..tuseen hor wigad jaawaon gay``.

#85,

I had a wonderful personal experience in Bangladesh.

Hi DM, my post to Tahmed was supposed to be sarcastic. I am not saying that every Hindu who visits Bangladesh would have a bad experience. On the other hand generalizing based on your experience would be misleading, no?

You yourself mentioned how Hindus were being persecuted in Bangladesh and were migrating to India to escape the persecution.

Based on this how can anybody claim that Bangladesh society is a nice one?

#88 by imran on April 22, 2005 10:15am PT
``I am not seeing any difference between an educated afghan Muslim and educated Indian Hindu. ``

Imran, actually Mr. Ahmed (if he exists) is a far better person than the exalted Hindu bundho-padhay (higher than divedi but lower than chutar-vedi). He never said that all Hindus are bigoted a-holes because Mr. bundho-padhay is a bigoted a-hole.... where as bundho-padhay implies that all muslims are idiots since Mr. Ahmed is an idiot.

That is absolute bunkum. I am hindu (at least culturally), and have never encountered your apprehension, this is indeed a first. I suggest you educate yourseld before giving in to such wild notions.

Anonymizer software ? HAhahahahha, just to protect your IP, that too on chowk ? To be honest, I have a tough time believing that you are for real. The attitudes in India are far different from what you think. When I was an undergrad in India, there were no such religious qualms at all, everyone celebrated everything and we all had fun, this was 1999.

I reiterate that it`s the likes of you that gived Indians a bad name.

I hope you realize that there is a big difference between being apprehensive of Pakistanis and Bangladesh and being apprehensive of Muslims in general.

He gave you your own medicine, Guy was nice to you and you had enough common ground to talk about, then why you started with Hindu history and brought religion in the conversation at the first place with a person you hardly know? Besides what sort of “historic” similarities you were trying to find even if Afghanistan was a Hindu state some frekin 1000 years ago?? So deal with the reality check my friend. His heritage/religion is important for him so as yours for you. I am not seeing any difference between an educated afghan Muslim and educated Indian Hindu.

Imran,

What is so offensive about pre-Islamic ancestry that a mere mention of that is considered rude? Poor author should have realized that Muslims from Pakistan and Afghanistan are weird people. They believe that before their ancestors were non-Muslims they were non-existent. They suddenly sprang into life as soon as they were converted.

Dear Ajeya,

So do I, though I came here only 2 years ago. The sole intent of my response was to show you that your assertion about what most hindus think is wrong and your paranoia is misplaced. There is no need to resort to ad hominem attacks.

I have a problem with your ideas, and not you personally.

regards,

Ajeya,

Well you have admitted here you are a coward and your hate is fueled by your cowardice. It is okay if you are afraid but why try to label all other Hindus as ``cowards`` as well? We have enough trouble trying to change our image of being ``soft``. This image came about all cuz Hindus did not have a sense of common community and did not care what happens to other Hindus (comes from an individualistic belief system w/salvation depending on the individual).

I am a Hindu and involved with a Pakistani Muslim girl against her family`s opposition here in the US. When we visit Pakistan in the future it maybe dangerous for us due to my religion and the ``taboo`` relationship. Yes, I probably will be afraid then but so what? Thats not going to stop me from visiting Pakistan. We all die and using a cliche here--``its a matter of when and how``.

Nothing wrong in claiming to be a RSS wallah. RSS people are brave volunteer cadres who do social services (even if they are fundos). They are infinitely better than cowards who do nothing and create trouble cuz of their self-esteem issues. Face up to ur fears instead of remaining a coward.

Tahmed #87,

#84 was addressed to you. I quoted your post in which you are addressing Ajeya.

#86 by TheDivisionBell

[HAhahahahha, just to protect your IP, that too on chowk ? To be honest, I have a tough time believing that you are for real. The attitudes in India are far different from what you think. ]

I don`t live in India. I live in the US, you miserable idiot.

54 by stuka on April 22, 2005 7:14am PT
[“He has no idea what he’s dealing with” she said absently. “No idea”, I thought gloomily, “he has absolutely no clue”.
Since when did the word HE start referring to ALL ONE BILLION MUSLIMS??]

stukay, ``HE`` refers to the president. bundho-padhay is saying that the president has no idea what he is dealing with, that ALL ONE BILLION MUSLIMS are as much a chutya as Mr. Ahmed (assuming that he exists in the first place).

Man, what`s happening with your reading comprehension?

Seems like if the padhay came from the bundho of an exalted Hindu Trivedi (higher then Divedi but lower than Chutar-vedi), it can mesmerize rational, honorable and fair Indians like stuka??

Tahmed #73 and #77:

``I quoted in # 62 of my post Mr. Hamidm`s post from #59 without quotes.``

anyways,
Prostitution is not lingual strictly; any culture where poverty irks then bizarre and creepy means to earn and live is given by life. Though I enjoyed the write up of Mr. Hamidm as he has carved down the scenario comically till it was limited to the pungent state, but there is definitely sarcasm of morally tarnished state of being when it comes to women state. And if we take it literally then it is a ‘reality’ as well or a malicious joke of life.

My family also likes ‘afghani naans’ and we even serve them in family occasions, and people here are quite immune to it. Many sectors of Islamabad are littering with Afghanis whom source of survival is quite divisive and skeptical. And then not why women get refrained from assaults when men are also in the same boat.

And it could be also termed merciless if we pinpoint each homeless, vagabond status afghani woman to be a prostitute…might be she going to work and earn peacefully and any afghani man to be of same composure, might be he a well doer in his field.
But still the focus is that why they got so much strayed and earned through ill-legal means in Pakistan …May be the mistake is of Pakistanis more who supported them to devastate in name of Jihad.

As In the end I pointed towars General ZiaulHaque.