The Dour Ascetic

#67 by kaalchakra
[But it was his MANNER that scared me. There was no doubt in my mind that if he were given a free hand, the guy could turn any crowd into a frenzied mob ...]

Indeed, Modi is a skilful orator and the venom in his words is enough to whip up communal frenzy in even a sane mob. He chooses his words very carefully and every word drips with hatred for his opponents. But hopefully, the rate at which skeletons are tumbling out of his cupboard, like the recent revelation that he had instructed the Police Chief to keep track of his opponents` telephones will be enough to cut him down to size.

Modi and those who share his views, the sikh separatists, the naxals,RSS et alia are no different from one another.They are all extremist elements in indian society.The BJP is similar to the republican party in the US.Just as the GOP has extremist religious and fascist elements, so too does the BJP.Yet the majority of the BJP cadre are secular.One of the BJP general secretary`s by the name of Mukhtar Abbas Naqvi is too lead a BJP group to pakistan next month.The Congress is similar to the Democratic party.Full of woolly liberals and limosine effetes.The leftists are filled to the brim with some of the most educated , elite and intellectual minds of India.What a paradox indian politics is.

The majority of indians are secular and believe in the country.If not, how can we be counted among the top nations of the world noted for everything from arts/entertainment to science, technology and intellectual property?.But . then again if not for the Modi`s , the SGPC`s , the RSS et alia, the people will slide into their regional niches and forget about the nation.These people keep us on our toes.As for Modi, onc the people of Gujarat, both hindu and muslim, realize that he`s an embarassment and will hurt them in their pockets(foreign investment into gujarat), they will kick him out.This was propounded by my neighbor , a gujarati muslim by the name of Amin.

As for interact #61, the rewrite should be....inspite of this hideousness, india is where it is and still moving ahead.That(the inane religious practices) is where we came from.It still lingers.These villagers would never have left their areas and visited a big town or city.They are usually in awe when they do.There are many layers to india, something that adds to the world`s fascination with us.

dost-mittar

I have had only one good look at Modi, on TV. He was giving a speech. I don`t even know what he was saying.

But it was his MANNER that scared me. There was no doubt in my mind that if he were given a free hand, the guy could turn any crowd into a frenzied mob ...

That`s not religion at all.

My interest in the issue is academic... I don`t agree with the conclusions being drawn...

Re: # 64

hindutva was first coined by Savarker, I would say it is Hindu Nationalism.

Can somebody explain what exactly hidutva is?I have heard this term only after BJP came into power at the centre and organizations like VHP,Bajrang Dal,Shiv Sena became visible on the Indian scene and the oldest organization(RSS) became much more powerful.Hindus never had exclusive political representation and neither did they strive for it en masse.BJP is not exclusively Hindu Party and is hardly different from congress in its political agenda.

re : dost-mittar# 62 , YLH # 58, guju # 56
You are all right. If minority communalism is tolerated majority communalism is bound to happen. I don’t see the leftist as non communal, just against majority communalism.

Faruk

Manto#58
...Right on! The real danger from hindutva is not religious bigotry but fascism. I am really scared of Modi. If he is really as efficient as his supporters claim, he could be a budding Hitler. The tragedy is that those who are fighting him are clueless leftists. As long as `combating communalism` in India is a euphemism for fighting Hindu communalism alone they are playing into the hands of Modi and his supporters.

What a frikking shame this India is becoming ....

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/1077644.cms
http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/asiapcf/04/14/india.burials.reut/index.html

re: Mantolives # 58

Amazing.

And to imagine that Indian leftists haven`t a clue.

Re: # 58

The only real comparison Hindutva has is with Zionism....

Re: # 56

I actually agree with this post of yours .... Hindutva indeed does not discriminate on the basis of caste or casteism... and is radically egalitarian. Just one of the many nuances that people on both sides fail to take into account.

Also, despite all its flaws, Hindutva can`t be compared to Islamic fundamentalism... because Hindutva is simply politicization of Hindu identity ... and not an attempt to create a theocracy.

Dear Farzana:

How would you define... ``Your India``...?

Anil

I have made the same point as dost-mittar many times before ....it is a major misconception that hindutva discriminates against dalits, tribals and other lower caste hindus. On the contrary hindutva stands for the abolition of the caste system and unification of hindus of all caste and creed as one single block. Conventional hinduism may perpetuate caste prejudices...but Hindutva stands for unity of all hindus against one (or two) common enemy - the muslim (and the missionary).

That is why the most of the leaders of the hindutva movement are backward caste hindus. Advani is a casteless sindhi. Narendra Modi is a lower caste hindu. BJP rules 5 states in India. The BJP chief ministers of 4 major states - Gujarat , Madhya Pradesh , Jharkand and Chattisgarh ..are all lower caste hindus. Uma Bharti is a lower caste hindu. Most of the kar sevaks who demolished that illegal babri masjid thing were poor lower caste hindu villagers. Most RSS members /cadre are tribals /dalits /lower caste hindus. The Gujarathis who did the actual fighting , killing and raping of muslims in the post-Godhra riots were tribals and dalits.

The major support to BJP comes from middle caste and backward caste hindus. Traders , farmers and government employees.

This is only natural because upper caste hindus don`t really have a future in India and have no intention of staying on either. Brahmins only constitute 2-3% of India`s population and their representation in the government/bureaucracy/PSUs is today minimal. Brahmins are extinct in rural India. Most brahmins are like Harimau Iyer. Angry and disillusioned with India. Brahmins are the jews of India. A minority which is persecuted and yet demonised by the majority. Most have left India or wish to leave India.

So for any political party to have realistic ambitions of ruling India - which BJP has , or for an organisation like the RSS to be seen as a major force in India , it must have a significant following among the lower caste hindus.

Farzana#44; drlokraj:

``Re. your post #37, I am surprised…

[I have to say one thing in favour of the chaddi-wallahs. Their motives may be suspect, but it is only they who have been trying to unite Hindus of all castes.]

In what manner?``

Politically, of course!

And the credit goes indirectly to VP and Tau Devi Lal. Jan Sangh/BJP was a mostly brahmin-bania party until the eighties, in fact a petty brahmin-bania party, as the high brahmins (intellectuals) and high banias (industrialists) were not with them. Then came Devi Lal`s threat to VP`s govt. when he was refusing to play second fiddle to his boss, VP, and playing up his jaat card. To counter him, VP, resurrected the Mandal commission`s recommendations of extending reservations to OBCs, which adversely affected BJP`s voter base. BJP could not openly oppose Mandal because all parties had accepted it in theory and agreed to keep it in cold storage. But when VP resurrected it, BJP was afraid of losing its support base and brought out its famous `kamandal`, in other words the issue of Ram mandir, which it correctly calculated will have the support of hindus across all castes, especially after the hugely successful Ramayan serial. The rest, as they say, is history.

I have also read, mostly by RSS detractors, that it is doing quite a bit of missionary work among dalits and in the tribal areas in an attempt to stop them from converting to Christianity. As opposed to them, the leftists are merely telling dalits how cruel upper caste Hindus have been to them, without making any attempt to heal their wounds or to exhort upper caste Hindus to treat them with dignity and respect and as equals.

Insightful.. It often surprises me how people can wear a mask of self purported self-righteousness..we all do. But I totally agree that fitting other peoples ideologies in your own mould can be one hell of a task.