Fighting Poverty in Pakistan

#32 by satyamvada on April 15, 2005 9:08pm PT

In Pakiland, the Army is the land developer.

In India, the Army leaves the major cantonments in cities and hands over its
properties to the civilians.

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In india, the armed forces folks do enjoy priveleges.They are subsidized on quite a few levels, from housing to groceries.They even buy booze at army stores at one half the price civilians pay.But that is the end of it.Their purview is the business of army-ing and what they can squeeze out of it for themselves in the form of a few perks here and there.The army does not `hand` over anything to civilians!!.They have nothing to hand over.Technicaly all govt. land is owned by the people and the crooks we elect lord over it all.Private contractors bid for army building contracts and supplies.That is a very lucrative industry.What a difference between pakistan and india!!!.Imagine how the army chief of india would feel when comparing himself to the army chief of pakistan!!.Here in dilli he has to dance to the tune of so many satraps and ministers.Every major expenditure has to be okayed by a parliament or cabinet committee.And the indian army chief commands the third largest standing army in the world!!!.Yet, a phone call from Congress party president sonia gandhi or leader of opposition l k advani will give him the willies , as by law he is answerable to them as they are reps of the people!!!.Such is life.

Re#23 by Ghazalmir11

``The Pakistani leadership is in a position to take some bold steps right now, it has done so on many levels already so why not now abolish a meance like feudalism?``

And who`s gonna give fraudulent legitimacy to military regimes if feudalism is abolished? Who`s gonna fill the ballot boxes with jaali votes and give 97 % results in favor of our warrior generals if that happens? Do you think Shaukat Aziz could have been chosen Pakistan`s PM if the assemblies were not full of feudals & lotas?

In earlier days, these feudals worked as pawns of the British colonialists. They would subjugate local population to reap rewards & benefits from the British. Brits needed these feudals as they were the Crown`s link with the local populace and helped keep ``peace & calm`` in the lands of the Raj. In turn the feudals were gifted with land.

Now the roles have changed slightly. Instead of British colonialists, it is the Fauji colonialists who have taken over. Everything else is almost the same. Feudals do the army`s bidding, and keep their perks, Pajeros & their MNA seats. Army in return, can claim a facade of legitimacy. Why would an Army want to do away with such a sure fire way of claiming legitimacy? It is a perfect formula for success and the generals are not gonna shoot themselves in the foot by abolishing feudalism.

Interesting article on the lack of enthusiasm, within PPP, for its leader(s):
``More conspicuous in their absence were party workers.

The Punjab government had undoubtedly done its bit to disrupt the welcome, blocking buses coming in from Sindh and the rest of Punjab....Police arrested some protesters who did show for the return...Police even snatched cameras from newsmen.

But that only partly explains why Mr Zardari`s return was such a non-event for normal Lahoris....The answer, say some analysts, may lie in the shift that has taken place in the city`s political culture over the years....From a sleepy backwater in the mid-1990s, it has turned into one of the most vibrant urban economies in the country.

The two terms of former premier Nawaz Sharif - the only Lahori to have made it to the country`s top executive post not once but twice - have transformed the city....Its network of roads is by far the best in the country and public transport is far more efficient than in any other city.....Lahore has also turned into the hub of the country`s IT and media industry.

Thousands of idle young men who would sit up late at night discussing the merits of democracy until only a few years ago now return dog-tired from a hectic day at work....They would much rather tune in to cable TV than risk a confrontation with the police.....Especially when they are not clear what it is they are fighting for.

For most of them, such activity is now best left to those who support the ``mentors of Mullah Omar``.
If he needs a grand reception, Mr Zardari perhaps needs to explain what he has to offer that the Lahoris do not already have. `` (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/4451823.stm)

Urban Pakistan, unlike rural/feudal Pakistan (which is still 2/3rd of Pakistan) is relatively dynamic politically. There was a time when PPP owned Punjab. Punjab was actually the only province where Bhutto won an all-out majority, in the early 70s election. He did not win an all-out majority even in Sind. And in East Pakistan, he won nothing.

However, now PML owns Punjab. Even in its broken form of six different parties, it won an all-out majority in Punjab. When it was united in the previous election, it won almost every seat.

Karachi used to be the center of Jamaat-i-Islami politics. However, MQM completely defeated it. And has been winning since then. There was a point where it could literally nominate a donkey and beat any maulvi of the Jamaat.

Urban NWFP used to be owned by Awami National Party. They were completely wiped out by the MMA maulvis in the last election, due to the ANP`s lack of opposition to the US bombing in Afghanistan. And the lack of economic progress under ANP.

Feudal politics, however, has remained the same. Which is why PPP and to some extent PML will always remain the top parties. 62% or so of the elected assembly has traditionally been feudal. And they are always the exact same people, or their kids - generation after generation. In many cases, the candidates of the two opposing parties are even related........

It would, however, be interesting to see what would happen if Lahore was taken away from the PML (and PPP) by some truly new middle class urban party. Currently, Karachi is the only city, whose voters have been able to achieve middle-class leadership (good or bad is a different story). Lahoris are still caught up in a feudal mindset..........

Ending feudalism is the biggest step to ending poverty. Invariably, the most backwards and poorest areas in Pakistan are the ones still run by tribals and feudals (rural Sind, Baluchistan, Southern Punjab, NWFP`s tribal areas........)

Indian news channels(my favorite NDTV///www.ndtv.com), were showing Musharaf arriving at the Ajmer dargah and his motorcade leaving Palam Air Force base in New Delhi(all VIP flights arrive here), they were also showing Zardari being arrested on arrival in Lahore.BBC was also showing the arrest.And, the New Delhi Municipal Corp. has given Musharaf and his siblings` original birth certificates to Manmohan Singh to hand over to Musharaf.What the??...is Mush gonna apply for indian citizenship??.The Immigration dept. denied Adnan Sami indian citizenship.Will they do the same to Musharaf?.Anyways, the PM is hosting a dinner for Musharaf tonight and the who`s who of india have been invited, from Sonia Gandhi, Advani, business tycoons, actors, intellectuals and politicians.I hope Musharaf enjoys his trip.

HisExcellency#30


`` 1. The % of people living below the poverty line increased from 26% in 1991 to 35% in 1999. ``

The aid to Pakistan due to Afghan jihad had stopped. The population kept growing.


`` 2. The starkest increase in povert was in rural areas where % of people below poverty line increased from 24% to 40%!

3. Rural poverty is highest (44%) in NWFP. ``

What are the incentives for a quasi-democratic regime to please the rural poor ? Especially when they are held hostage by the military.


`` 5. Although overall poverty level is 35%, the overall poverty level for females is 52%.``

With a exception of few thousand prostitutes every female is a part of the family. This tells me that families with more female members fare worse than the average.

`` 6. The average fee of a government school in Pakistan is Rs 1,675 per year. The average fee of a private school is Rs 4,477 per year. ``

2800 Pakistani rupees does not seem a high amount. If 50 dollars will command a semi-decent private school in India a lot of the poor would be elated.

`` 7. 65% of children in Balochistan and Sindh do not get basic immunization from diseases such as TB, tetnus, measles and polio each year ``

failure of basic government coupled with not enough NGO activity and stupid supersitions on the part of people

#37 by bbabu on April 16, 2005 6:42pm PT

school fees in bombay are Rs 5/month for the 5th standard students, Rs 6/month for the 6th standard students etc etc...and these aren`t municipal schools...it`s every school that gets the government subsidy...convents and all....

So Indian students don`t pay more than 120Rs/year....at least the ones in bombay...

re: bbabu

``What are the incentives for a quasi-democratic regime to please the rural poor ? Especially when they are held hostage by the military``

If your ``military-hold-civilian-govt-hostage`` theory was right, then a quasi-democratic regime would have an enormous incentive to please the rural poor in NWFP and Punjab. It is a known fact that rural voters have a higher turnout in Pakistan than urban voters. A quasi-democratic govt with a two-thirds majority would cut down the military to size and be immune to palace intrigues, etc.

If the governments in Pakistan in 1990s were quasi-democratic, it was only because the politicians in those govt were undemocratic and fascist in nature. Military did not hold these govts hostage by any measure. These irresponsible politicians are now blaming their failures on the military.

HisExcellency #39

`` If your ``military-hold-civilian-govt-hostage`` theory was right, then a quasi-democratic regime would have an enormous incentive to please the rural poor in NWFP and Punjab. It is a known fact that rural voters have a higher turnout in Pakistan than urban voters. A quasi-democratic govt with a two-thirds majority would cut down the military to size and be immune to palace intrigues, etc.

If the governments in Pakistan in 1990s were quasi-democratic, it was only because the politicians in those govt were undemocratic and fascist in nature. Military did not hold these govts hostage by any measure. These irresponsible politicians are now blaming their failures on the military. ``

Since when does the NWFP count in Pakistani politics ?

What makes you think the poor rural voter in Punjab and Sind is going to vote against the wishes of the powerful rural interests ?

Other than the authority to use force the fundamental ability of any government is the ability to spend money as they please. You would not be suggesting that Nawaz Sharif or Benazir Bhutto could slash military expenditures.

If Benazir Bhutto and Nawaz Sharif governments were democratic why were they not allowed to complete their five year terms in office. It happened four times within a decade.
If you have a Westminister system of parlimentary democracy you allow the government to complete their five year term unless they loose a majority.

Nawaz Sharif was a creation of the military establishment in the 1980s. Benazir Bhutto owes her following to her father who was Ayub Khan`s protege in the 1960s. It is not like they came out of the blue.

Romair 35

``Ending feudalism is the biggest step to ending poverty. Invariably, the most backwards and poorest areas in Pakistan are the ones still run by tribals and feudals (rural Sind, Baluchistan, Southern Punjab, NWFP`s tribal areas........)``

Romair is an educated pakistani and see his logic. poor are in rural areas, rural areas are dominated by feudals, hence feudals are the proble.

All over the world rural people are relatively poor, even in kerala where there is no feudalism, rural income is lower than urban income, simply because of the nature of the job.

The importance of romair is that he is an srchetypal pakistani, educated from the military and all that he has is a mind set dominated by TNT. For every thing, the ere is an ``other`` to be blamed and possibly killed.

Each of the educated posters of pakistan are an affirmation and a re-statement of the hopelessness of pakistan.