Shatranj ke Khiladi

Re: # 216
Dillidost,
Khush Aamdeed to you my good friend. What are you doing up so late?
I heard that Hira Mandi is alive and well in Lahore. I have also heard that it is a mere remnant of its famous past. I think that the Zia government, in its zeal to purify Pakistan, destroyed the culture of Lahore. This act of barbarism was similar to the what the Tally Bans did in Afghanistan and what the BJP government did to the great Kothas of Lucknow - what a shame. Why can`t all these do-gooders feed the hungry, educate the illiterate, and give money to the poor? Killing a poor lover of Hira Mandi in 1949 is a real crime, but then partition and its aftermath makes one believe any story. Very sad.

Congratulations Kardesh. My best wishes to you and your wife to be.

Re: # 215

Vivek,
Thank you my friend. My fiancee is from Turkey - actually my cousin on my dadi`s side. I appreciate your warm wishes.

Re: # 214

Aur Kardesh Jaag Uthay

Ye Heera Mandi, abhi bhi alive hai kiya??

I used to hear pre-partition Hira Mandi stories from old Sialkoti relatives. Somebody they knew was killed in 1949 when he attempted to visit Hira Mandi from India after the parition. His love was still alive for his lover and riots and two separate countries could not stop him.

kardesh,
``Well, seeing that I will be married in about three weeks``
Congratulations beforehand on your coming marraige. Where`s your wife-to-be from?

Now that everyone is talking peace and harmony, I too have a peace offer.

Peace offer to Punjoos from Salim. This offer is for all Punjoos, except those from Lahore. I wish to repair my relations with all Punjoos except Lahoris. Many, like Mr. Tahmed Sahib, Dilliwalla, DM, Stuka, and Ali, are fine, wonderful, intelligent, and witty human beings deserving my admiration and friendship. Mr. Tahmed Sahib is quite capable of being the Muslim Pope.
As for the Lahoris, I would like to suggest a series of Confidence Building Measures (CBMs) that I hope will lead to better relations. I suggest the following CBMs as starters:

1. By international law all CBMs must include a bus service. I suggest that Lahoris provide a complimentary bus service from Allama Iqbal International Airport to Hira Mandi, with a 30 minute stop at Dunkin Donuts. For some cheap Indian tourists from Delhi, who use the Samjotha Express, I suggest a similar service from Lahore Railway Station to Hira Mandi, again with a stop at the Dunkin Donuts to taste the world`s most delicious coffee and sample the fried sweet treats.

2. Lahoris will provide complimentary high-potency Viagra (imported ones) for senior Indian visitors on their way to Hira Mandi.

3. Salim will set an example for high-tipping Indian tourists by tipping 20% or higher, instead of their customary Rs 1/, for all services provided in Lahore.

4. Lahoris will provide hand-pulled rickshaws drawn by obese yet healthy Lahorans. This will have the dual effect of letting the Indians feel at home and providing useful physical exercise for the fat Lahorans.

5. For the more modern visitors, such as those from Delhi, Lahoris will provide cycle rickshaws pedaled by chubby Lahorans. The passengers will be protected against flatulence odor through the use of special high-tech windshields imported from India. Again, this will allow the modern visitors from Delhi to feel at home and provide much needed physical exercise for obese Lahorans, who would normally pedal away anyway at the gym while yak yak yakking with fellow fat Lahorans.

6. Salim will use his good offices in India to obtain gainful employment in Bollywood for the few rare Lahorans who are of normal weight. The film actress Meera will provide instruction on how to act in Mahesh Butt movies.

7. Lahoris will take special classes in Mumbai to learn how to pronounce Q, KH, and GH sounds for proper Urdu sounds. If Bollywood actors can learn to pronounce Qismat, Khabardar, and Ghussa, then Lahoris should be required to do so.

8. Lahoris will learn how to behave properly as cricket spectators or refrain from attending any matches played by the Paki team. For this the Lahori ``fans`` will be sent to England to observe English soccer fans. If this doesn`t work, then Veeresh will organize lessons provided by Delhi cricket fans.

9. Lahoris will accept 250,000 stranded ``Biharis`` from Bangladesh and settle them along the route from the airport to Hira Mandi. This will have the dual effect of doing the right thing and making the Indian visitors, especially from East Punjab, feel at home.

10. Salim will use his Indian and Irani connections to route the gas pipeline through Lahore on its way to India from Iran.

amit #191, {``Salim mian, I cant believe you are supporting porn. With your rajput/turkish looks, you should be able to get a woman at the drop of a hat, especially in the US. Believe me, porn is no match for the real thing ;-)

Amit dost, yaar I was trying to encourage our middle-aged average middle class Indian friend, Mr. Cayenne, in his nocturnal adventures. It would be hypocritical of a strip club manager to lecture Mr. Cayenne about porn. I just wished he wouldn`t do it only while Mrs. Cayenne is asleep. Well, seeing that I will be married in about three weeks, maybe he knows something that I have yet to learn.

#194, MaheshG2 {``You sound like an idiot.``}

MaheshG2,
As evidenced by this board and the Stuka thread, it is obvious that at one time or another, we all sound like idiots - except you of course. :)

re:#209 by delhiwala
I am told that there is a mad rush for undergraduate and graduate education but techies themselves are slowly leaving, not because they do not like it here but because job opportunities are dwindling and there seem to be a plethora of jobs in India. My own brother-in-law, after being in IBM for many years, is toying with the idea of returning. Doctors too are slowly returning. Many want to give back to the community. Many others are going back because conditions in India are better today and home beckons them.
Sridhar

#195 by HisExcellency
I am posting the Editorial from your Pakistani paper that hits the bulls eye about the reasons for making the LOC soft and allowing bus service across LOC.
http://nation.com.pk/daily/apr-2005/19/editorials1.php
The relevant passage:
(Although it has become commonplace to point out that the West is eagerly eyeing the growing Indian middle classes for the consumption of its products, it constitutes one of the main factors governing the marked tilt it is showing to India. The other phenomenon of rising China, economically and ultimately militarily, is anathema particularly to Washington and has to be factored in for its strategic policies to take shape. Befriending India, therefore, to serve as a barrier to Beijing’s future potential for expansion, would have to be done at all costs.
Therefore, the situation was viewed from a different angle at New Delhi that suits its interests. “Further measures to enhance interaction and cooperation across the LoC” were agreed. They related to meeting points for divided families, trade, pilgrimages and cultural interaction.)
In other words, we are looking at a changed geopolitical situation, where the outside powers (mainly US) are increasingly involved in ensuring detente between India and Pak at any cost because that serves their purpose (of countering China).
Pak may be forced to agree to a compromise, being a smaller and less powerful player.
In this respect the following article was interesting:

http://www.sulekha.com/news/nhc.aspx?cid=421900
(According to sources close to New Delhi, though Pakistan keep saying that Line of Actual Control cannot be the final solution, a secret deal is being cut between the two sides.

The sources say, India will provide concession on Baglihar dam issue in sharing water equitably with Pakistan and in exchange with a lot of profound grievance Pakistan will accept the current LOC as the final solution.)
It remains to be seen if this will actually happen or if it was all somebody hallucinating.
India does have a hold on Pak by controlling the water that flows into Pak if it were to complet the Baghliar dam. This dam can benefit both countries by sharing water but India wolud probably be willing to do it as a deal: ``quid pro quo`` being accepting LOC as border. LOC will continue to be a soft border with increasing trade and tourism across it but once LOC is declared an I.B, Pak`s involvement in Kashmir will end there (needless to say all this is not being welcomed by many Kashmir groups).
Sridhar

Re: # 208
DM Saab,
Jiski Lathi Uske Bhaince.

USA holds the Lathi and does not want anybody else to be the Charwaha. As simple as that.
They will share there economy only to the level where it is advantagous. Japan is a very rich nation thanks to the West but still does not weld Lathi against EU or USA, why??

Re: # 207
Also,
If nothing else N-America has largest resources of Fresh Water and still untapped Oil reserves that they are waiting to be checked out.

If any nation has to be a World Class leader then there are various avenues to prove the mettle. The nation that can take the lead in following will be the winner in next 30 yrs.
1) Health Care R&D, Genetics, cloning, stem cell related.
2) Alternative sources of Energy, Solar, Electric or Hydrogen, fuel cells etc.
3) Nano Technology, using DNAs for Compters.
4) Space exploration if it can be used for tapping resources and colonising not just visiting planets.
5) Every other thing such as literacy, health care, life expectancy, crime, social issues, natural resources etc that define quality of life, whoever has the highest percentile is the winner. Rank it accordingly to get your answer.

One thing that I don`t understand from Chowk`s conversations is why still in India and Pakistan there is mad rush to come to USA. Despite all of the progresses etc. Love of Religion, country. People are selling their ancesstoral properties to get a fake VISA. IITians still want to work in Multinationals(foreign), there are some exceptions and I respect them.

Romair#167:

I also said, ``For India, I am thiniking of the country having an influential place at the table when interntaional issues of concern to India are discussed from WTO to Kyoto to the security of international energy supplies.``

To get a seat at the Table, it is more important to have an economic than a military clout. Between the 1970s and 1990s Japan and Germany were economic giants and wielded enormous clouts as their economic performance impacted upon other economies. Now, they are losing some of their shine and more importance is being paid to China and, to a much lesser but increasing extent, to India and Brazil. Econometric models now have to factor these countries in their equations. You may be aware that today, Canada, has outlined its much-awaited foreign policy document which has been under preparation for almost a year. It singles out China and Canada as sources of potential source of Canada`s economic growth. There is a complete section on China and India. Here is an excerpt from the India section:

``With market liberalization continuing and infrastructure development an ever-present priority, India offers Canadians more and more opportunities in biotechnology and health, information and communications technology, engineering and construction, oil and gas, energy, and environmental and financial services. India is also a very important potential partner in the areas of science, technology and education: it is consciously building its economic future on the skills of its people, seeking out strategic partners to further its development. Unlike East Asia, however, India is not yet a major player in supply chains. Its size and emerging outward orientation make it an awakening giant that will rival China in the foreseeable future.``

And when you talk about India and China being rivals for energy, you don`t realize that they could be both rivals and partners. It is like saying that oil producing countries are rivals in selling oils, which they sometimes are. Generally speaking, however, it makes more sense for buyers or sellers not to compete against each other if they want to get a better deal.

#129
Bhai Saab,
You got carried away and answered my question with more subjective patriotic feelings. Don`t get me wrong, I am also a patriotic Indian who is very closely associated with IT in USA and India as well as familiar with bureaucratic setup. I am a very practical man who likes to formulate his own opinion rather some articles written by others.


You did not answer my questions about

Providing Potable water to masses in India.
How would India counter NATO/USA militarily?

I agree that India has made tremendous progress from where it was 30 yrs ago. IT outsorucing in India is booming and some parts of Metropolitans in India are no different than Developed world.

However;
IT is all based on outsourcing cheap Labor. I have not come across one single innovation or Patent from India in IT, closest thing was PARAM computer using RISC. There are lots of JAVA, C++, DOTNET etc programmers in India who can write wonderful code to support backoffice work. I also know MS, IBM, NOVELL, INTEL etc has there offices in India that do write Systems related programs. But all of these don`t make a dent in the IT world to become a Pioneer or Leader. It can change in future, I hope so. But at the current rate I don`t see it. Infosys, Satyam etc are leader in outsourcing or 24/7/365 backend Operations support. Not in making new Technologies. I also came from India and can agree with you that quality of education at school level is much higher than in regular joe-schmoe schools in USA. Indians at individual level can be very best technically, but as a team in R&D, have not become world class.
Where will India produce Water from for 1Billion people? I don`t know. There are no fresh water resources in India? Major Rivers are not enough to provide Water(UNO has a minimum quantity consumption per person factor).

How about Defence?
India has no armaments to match World Powers. They are totally dependent on West for Defence needs and they are mostly outdated inventory.

I can go on and on.... I don`t want to sound harsh on my country but I just want to bring to your attention to you that in relationship to the World our ranking has not gone up or down, despite the wonderful acheivements in IT.

#195 by HisExcellency on April 19, 2005 3:51pm PT


If India indeed considered Kashmir its atoot ang, it would not have agreed to let passengers travel on the Srinagar-Muzaffarabad bus using UN permit documents.


Like the Indian PM has said, he is open to any step short of redrawing of borders...


Kashmiris aren`t even prepared to travel on an Indian passport. There is a fundamental difference between what the Indian govt says in public and the steps it is taking (albiet slowly) to accomodate Pakistan and US.


1. The bus was welcomed in India..Sonia Gandhi and the PM flagged it off..The militants, who presumably support Kashmir`s independence or merger with Pakistan, attacked the bus service..On the pakistani side, the bus was well received by the people of Pakistani Kashmir, but there was hardly any fanfare to match what you had in India...

2. If you think a bus service is the first step in India changing the status quo i.e. giving up Indian Kashmir, you either don`t know what restrictions the Indian government acts under constitutionally or you are living in cloud cuckoo land....

aslam644,
The objection to Russia is because by population she is bigger than France and Germany. Remember that the first aim of France and Germany is really establishing significant influence over European affairs and not really challenging USA. EU countries chose USA over Russia during the cold war and they would do that again if it comes to that.

delliwale.....thans to your your hardwork on this thread , we now know that...

1. There are no electric dryers available in ol`dilli and india.
2. Internet in India slower compared to US.

Damn... India so pathetic. How do they live , those Indians ?