Shatranj ke Khiladi

#239 by dost-mittar

First arjun posted that stupid thing from Ali Gilani and now you follow that up with another gem. What world you guys live in?

It is ridiculous that you and Arjun feel good about Jamaat Islami leader accusing Musharaf of betrayal. I hope Musharaf betrays Jamaat Islami and Ali Gilani or may be screw them over with whatever he has. Jamaat Islami’s view of Kashmir is different than many moderate Pakistanis. Jamaat Islami was the motivating and financing force to bring Jihad culture in Kashmir and it is a pity that you feel good when Musharaf attempts to step away from the JI politics in Kashmir.
I don’t see any about turn in Pakistani policy. It is obvious that both countries recognize the importance of a peaceful solution of the issue. India has made significant concessions in its seven point course of action including doing several things jointly in both Kashmir. It is important to use this plan of action to remove rest of the Jihadi out of Kashmir. As Jihadis move out, the Indian Army would start pulling back and interaction between the people and governments in Kashmir would improve. This whole thing may take years and it still may get derailed but agreement by both parties to remove extremists like Ali Gilani and Jamaat Islami from the process is an important constructive step and you should have lauded it instead of talking about U turns and about turns. Would you have liked Mushy’s continued support of Jihadi or moving away from the extremists?
The solution that is emerging is good for Kashmiris and both countries. There are two ways to handle Kashmir: Continue talking about moving the physical chain or make the current divide a virtual chain without jeopardizing each others publicly stated position.
I think Kashmir is headed in a direction where Kashmiris would have more say in their affairs and both countries should continue to recognize that Kashmiris as people have more at stake in this whole drama than the inconsequential insistence on the position of borders.

#239 by dost-mittar on April 20, 2005 8:31am PT

yeah...you pretty much knocked that one out of the park....

Just in case people want to read DM`s article, here`s a link to it with all the interacts....

echoboom#241:

When Musharraf made his famous about-turn after 9/11, he cited the famous treaty of Hudaibya in support of his action. I guess you didn`t buy that!

Re: # 246
Echoboom Sahib,
You are absolutely right - I mean Jihad gainst Saudis. I have always maintained that whether Indian or Pakistan, if we don`t treat our working poor and others kindly and with respect, how can we expect others to respect us when we show up in an environment they control.
Respect starts at home.
Thanks,
Salim

HP #229 {``I am utterly disappointed in your destroying that middle age mirchi baba’s porn nights. That ruined my evening too. Yes! I admit I am one of those middle age men who after a couple of drinks go to a couple of porn sites just to reminisce the good old days. I also visit chowk afterwards to sort of cool down after being on fire with some sizzling blonds on the net. The thought that you will be married soon and join the porn watchers club, brought much needed comfort to my otherwise porn less night tonight.``}

HP Sahib,
You visit Chowk after visiting a couple of porn sites? That explains everything about your responses - and I thought there was something wrong with my messages! :)
It`s almost as bad as my friends helping me with responses on Chowk during our own drinking sessions - to add porn to liquor is a dangerous combo.
Listening to you and Mr. Cayenne, why do I see a lonely ambidextrous future for myself. Drinking expenisve scotch, glued to my hi-res, flat-screen, 27`` monitor, thanking the Lord for my high-speed connection, and complaining about my loss of memory in remembering hundreds of devious passwords? Thank you HP, I had no intentions of disappointing any middle-aged men, you and Cayenne are my own future.



#231, Cayenne {``What are married men supposed to do in Mumbai now??.They go and shut down the dance bars in the city...``}

Mr. Cayenne, I appreciate your dilemma about dance bars. This Saudi-type hypocrisy on the part of the Maharashtra Government is pitiful. I have been watching with interest the bar controversy on JEE TV. Hang in there, fight for your rights - I especially approved of one outspoken Sardarhi barowner, who passionately argued for his rights.
Was the bishop, who apprehended for whatever, in the race for Pope? I have every intention of coming to Mumbai again and checking up on your situation. How is Grant Road nowadays?

I say if ever a jihad was justified, it is justifiedin Saudi Arabia - the haven of hypocrisy and the den of dastardly deeds.

Kardesh:242

Please change in above to against. That is perhaps what you mean.

and I fully agree. This is Yazeed & Muaaviaa mulookiyaat. Mulookiat means Secularism.

---

But this bowing and Kow-Towing to goraa is not a Saudi monoply . People from Ghuulaamistaan excel at this. In fact they are the ones who invented it. Forget goraa; a desi-kuttee and desi-kutta with vilayatee cheekaaN ( A desi dog and b/itch speaking in goraa accent) is highly prized in Ghuulaamistaan. Slaves suddenly get bow down & break-rules to cater gum-chewing jeans-wearing kuttaa & kuttees.

I`ve seen rich, learned, and respectable people refusing to talk totaa-mainaa & dressed in dhotee humiliated by a 2-takaa anglicised corporate type in Ghulaamistaan. Everywhere you go the KanjaRRs get preferential service in Ghulaamistan. The KanjaRRs actually sneer and look-down upon shareef families in ``posh`` neighborhoods.

Cayenne #236. {``TO MY PAK FRIENDS......NYAHNYAHNYAHNYAHNYAH ``}

Mr. Cayenne,
Did you want to put gas in your car? For you, my friend, the special price from Muslims is $8.99 a gallon (US).

amit #225, {``This reminds me of the typical Punju pronounciation or rather the massacre of words like measure, treasure, pleasure. For some reason, any Punju worth his salt, will always say meiiuuure, treiiuuure, pleaiuuure, which is totally hilarious``}

Amit,
Mere dost, thanks for the warm welcome to ``the club.`` Why do I feel that I am being decorated like a bakra right before Qurbani? :) I hope to visits Chowk infrequently after at least a two week absence. I might be very busy with a brand new career.

The inability of some Punjus to pronounce certain words is definitely a measure of their lack of pleasure in finding no treasure in hours of leisure during the seizure. Thounds like a leal speeth impedhimenth.

tahmed #221, {`` am already preparing my acceptance speech in latin which translated into english goes like this: I am a humble worker of Allah`s non-alcohol producing vineyard. Bring me chicken masala and lassi (shaken, not stirred) with halva and for dessert. Aaaaamennnnnnnnn.``}

Tahmed Sahib,
Non-alcohol producing vineyard.:)) HA HA HA. What a waste of perfectly good grapes. Well, at least we will have raisins.

Chicken masala goes with beer very well - Perhaps, you can issue a fatwa that we can drink on Fridays - as long as we eat meat with the drinks. After all, you will be our pope.

Queenie #232, {``If there is any energy left in you guys after this - WHY NOT GO TO THE NEAREST SAUDI EMBASSY AND GIVE THOSE THRASY TURDS a PETITION AND PROTEST IN FRONT OF THEIR EMBBASSY. Naaahhh! far to scary...hey if we were white (european or american) we would have done that till the govt did something about it. That is the reason why these gys are top dogs and we southasians are lap dogs.``}

Queenie,
This is disgusting - I can`t believe these ba$tards can outperform their own grim record in human rights. You are so right about how ``Islamic Law`` as dreamt up by these Wahabbi watusis is used to demean human beings of ``lesser`` origins. From their airlines to their fricking hotels, to their airports, and right down to their mosques, these miserable imposters treat people of Indo/Pak origin differently than the white Europeans and Americans whose bottoms they caress with their bushy faces.

I say if ever a jihad was justified, it is justified in Saudi Arabia - the haven of hypocrisy and the den of dastardly deeds. I have already swithced my Qibla to Delhi (also Ahmedabad, Kanpur, Jamshedpur, and Bangalore).

Queenie, thank you so much for highlighting this sad story. Where is one_world when we need to hear from him?

dost-mittar:239
Right On!

In civilised and polite language: `` Saalay ney hUGG diyaa``

---

``hUm kay rammaaz-e ruumooz-e ghUm-e pinhaanee haiN
Upnee gardan pay bhhee hai rishta-figan khatir-e doast
hUm bhhee koo-e rah-e dildaar kay zindaanee haiN``

---

Faiz.
tr:
Yeah:
we who are privy to & safekeepers of the anguish of hearts. Of course we are too are guilty of cutting off our age-old ties, for sake of someones friendship.
We too are (willing) prisoners of the beloved`s alleys


What the PhD-type ignorants from Harvard & Oxford claim later on, the wretched wage earners that they are, the same thing had already been said by the ``unwashed`` the ``riff-raff`` much much earlier.

It is these ``unwashed`` and ``riff-raffs`` who ALWAYS tell the truth & know better. They are not the wretched wage-earners, tenured-ones, coin-operated-dispensers of their IQs. Until and unless the world understands this and drags down the Harvard and Oxford types, ignorance would continue to keep the world in Dark Ages.

I hope you did not miss my scholarly treatise on your board. Many of such treatises are now archived here since that fateful day in October when he rammed his aeroplane into the heart of muslims.

Please read this at ease and comfort. Such language is not the style and manner of our superior culture. But this site is in english--and such kind of bravado and guts are highly appreciated and `tolerated` in the ``enlightened`` and ``maadrate`` society of the goraas and near-goraas.

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#180 by echoboom on April 19, 2005 2:21pm PT
Maybe the KanjaRRs , ``raushan Khayals & ``maadrates``, see themselves in this mirror.

Musharraf & his Bhaand-band : ``MaaN-Behen kaa Nangaa Parbat``.
Oh what a deal maker this guy is:

On the chUpatee bhaanD tune:

Mein toa daidooN gaa,... uus ko lainaa paRRaigee mori
MeiN mrvaaooN-gaa,... uus ko maarni paRRaigee mori

Oh meiN toa Amreekaa ko dai aaya rey, zara daikho mora U-turn
Oh meiN to India sey mrvaa aaya rey, zara daikho moree G-turn.

Laa`nUt lUkhh laanUT: He is not a muslim, in fact he is a muslim/Islam duushman.
Most liberal/secularist are--Make no mistake about it. Because of murtid laws of the community they use this ruse & are the first ones to quote a mullah, a hadees, and Hudood laws and thus invoke islamic-laws to their defence.

Such ruse must be exposed at the very first opportunity whether in public or a private setting. They must be made uncomfortable among muslims.

``Shaadi huee toa hUdd-e mussarrat sey bUrrhh gaey
ghoaRRay ko laat maar kay, sooli pey chaRRh gaey.``

Cayenne,

Just as a suggestion, it is highly immature to flaunt economic progress. People
can be rich,poor, good, bad or ugly (like us dhoti-clad, short dark yindoo) - but
all that is superficial.

The difference is in values -
The Pakis have exported their Khatme Nabuwat movement to Bangladesh - look
what is happening to the ahmediyas there.

hPakis have just shot a man who is supposed to have desecrated the koran

Pakiland is one of the worst states with institutionalized bigotry and prejudice of
all kinds.

Re: # 237

I just looked back at the article I wrote 2 years ago, ``The beginning of the end of the Kashmir porblem``. Here is an excerpt:

``The army is vulnerable to the pressure from the United States and is headed by a realist who believes in a Pakistan-first policy. As this writer had indicated earlier on Chowk, Musharraf will do an about-turn on Kashmir similar to the one in Afghanistan, if and when it becomes necessary in the interest of Pakistan.``

The universe is unfolding more or less as predicted :-)

cayenne: hmmmm....patient seems to be losing his senses. Caused no doubt by the effect of the red hot chilli pepper he ate in lieu of proper food. Must put him in same ward as jay thakeray....hmmmmmm

If India agreeing to the bus service is the first step in India giving up land, why are the hardcore jihadis po`ed? Maybe it`s cause they see the writing on the wall?

Playacting over Kashmir
By Syed Saleem Shahzad

KARACHI - ``There is a lot of extravaganza between India and Pakistan through cricket, music, exchange of delegations and bus services [in Kashmir]. India has engaged [President] General Pervez Musharraf in a lot of fun activities and he is conveniently lost in it. It is ironic that Indians wanted to abandon the Kashmir issue once and for all, and now Pakistan is helping India to do so.``

So said a grim Syed Ali Shah Gillani [1] in a telephone interview with Asia Times Online from New Delhi. Gillani is the chairman of the All Parties Hurriyat Conference (APHC), which Pakistan`s military establishment has nurtured over the past 13 years as the icon of the Kashmiri liberation struggle.

A delegation of the APHC`s Gillani group led by Gillani called on Musharraf in Delhi on Sunday at the Pakistani High Commission. Musharraf was in India ostensibly to watch a cricket match between India and Pakistan, but he also met senior Indian leaders.

By all accounts, Gillani`s meeting with Musharraf left the general ``shocked``, and Gillani angry. ``I told him [Musharraf], `You have sold us out.```

Musharraf`s bilateral talks covered the Kashmir bus service, trade and other issues, but without reference to resolving the Kashmir dispute - the ``core`` issue that has traditionally been the foundation of any Pakistani dialogue with India.

``I had questions for Musharraf,`` Gillani informed Asia Times Online. ``I maintained that Pakistan showed a lot of flexibility, but what is the Indian response? Are they ready to show any reciprocity? Is there any change in the ground realities? Human-rights violations in Kashmir are still rampant. Recently, 30 of our youths were given life sentences, there is no reduction in the presence of the [Indian] army in Kashmir. Confidence-building measures are supposed to lead to a reduction in atrocities in Kashmir, or are they just fun activities between the rulers of the two countries?

``I emphasized that good Pakistan and Indian relations should have yielded [results] for the Kashmiris in the shape of relief in political activity, a reduction in military operations by the over 700,000 Indian forces etc ... but there is none. Pakistani rulers do not appear to talk business on Kashmir, rather they are more interested in playing cricket with Indians and having some fun - and letting Kashmir bleed. We Kashmiris are watching these developments and a negative opinion is growing against Pakistan.
``Musharraf agreed, but said that [the] post-September 11 situation left Pakistan with little options,`` Gillani said when Asia Times Online asked for Musharraf`s response.

``We are enraged not because Pakistan is retreating from its active support. The issue is that Pakistan is now playing a role which is tantamount to active support of the Indian agenda,`` Gillani fumed.

``Initially, General Musharraf dished out a proposal to set aside the UN resolutions on Kashmir [calling for a referendum] and meet India `halfway somewhere`. It was the first retreat by Pakistan, but we swallowed this bitter pill and thought that it was a step to seek Indian cooperation for the resolution of Kashmir. The Indians did not show any reciprocity. Then, a further retreat, and Musharraf dished out a proposal to divide Kashmir in seven zones. India did not respond. After all of this, India played the gambit of the Srinagar-Muzzafarabad bus service. In the past, Pakistan never approved of the idea as it was an old Indian one. The incumbent so-called Kashmiri Chief Minister Mufti Saeed contested the elections with the same rhetoric in 2002, that he would open the Srinagar-Muzzafarabad road. After 57 years [since partition], Pakistan has opened that route and spoiled our struggle. We saw it as `right-sizing` of the Kashmiri cause by Pakistan,`` Gillani maintained.

Showtime
The question is, does Musharraf really care what Gillani thinks and expresses? The reality is, Musharraf`s main concern with regard to internal and external affairs is what the army thinks.

Yet Gillani is a by-product of Pakistan`s military establishment, created to serve as a strong pro-Pakistani face in the indigenous struggle of Kashmiris in the Valley. He has always been approved by the military establishment as the only acceptable face, while all others were disapproved, and their integrity and familiarity with the Kashmir issue watched with a lot of suspicion.

In many ways, the very existence and continued pre-eminence of Pakistan`s army relates to Kashmir - it has fought several wars over the issue. From the rank of major up to brigadier, all officers work in a single direction under a manual that has not changed in the past 57 years on the Kashmir issue: no quarter given.

The beads of sweat on Musharraf`s forehead after his meeting with Gillani were understandable. Everyone knows that army chiefs come and go, but the military institution never changes its manuals.

Musharraf knows that he will not change the views of Gillani, who is now publicly expressing his condemnation of Pakistan and its rulers. Yet Musharraf does not have a viable option for any new ``pro-Pakistan`` leadership among Kashmiris as neither his intelligence apparatus would approve their integrity nor would Kashmiri armed groups accept them.

There is no doubt that what is playing out on the South Asian stage bears little resemblance to what is happening behind the stage. Kashmir has been described as a ``lifeline`` for Pakistan and an ``integral part`` of India. Glitzy presentations for the public will not change the situation overnight.

Note
[1] Syed Ali Shah Gillani is a former chief of the Jamaat-i-Islami (a separatist party) in Indian-administered Kashmir and among the pioneers of the All Parties Hurriyat Conference, a group of Kashmiri groups striving for the right of self-determination for over a decade. Gillani was recognized by Pakistan as the only acceptable Kashmiri leader when the APHC split into two factions. The United Jihad Council, a conglomerate of Kashmiri militant groups involved in armed struggle against the Indian presence in the Valley also recognizes Gillani as the only political leader of Kashmir.

I AM PROUD TO BE AN INDIAN.......TRALALALALA

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TO MY PAK FRIENDS......NYAHNYAHNYAHNYAHNYAH