The Sweltering Sky

Re: # 127



Tavarish Amrita:

``nepalese would rather be nepalese than part of some akhand bharat. the incident i`m talking about occurred when some hindutva type went to nepal and was intoxicated enough by his view of the hindu rashtra to say that he hoped the day would dawn when they would all live in one big hindu rashtra. ``

Nor do I want Nepal to be a part of India. They are better by themselves. FYI, until the Angol-Nepal war some parts of india were in nepal and some parts of present nepal were in British india. There are enough states in india to make it a Hindu Rashtra ;)

``and fyi east bengal is the part that had the natural resources but west bengal is the part that handled the trade and manufacturing part of it. ``

I know that. Raw jute was in east and jute mills were in west (Calcutta) hence they wanted Calcutta. But the point I wsa making is if you already have the raw materials can`t you make the mills/manufacturing units? Didn`t east punjab undergo green revolution after partition. What was Japan. South Korea, Singapore 50 years back? Singapore infact even imports drinking water. As a sovereign nation, bangladeshis have to think about it by themselves, not push their responsibility on others. This impoverished nation refused to sell gas to india, refuses to allow indian transport convoy pass through its territory (even for transit fees), does it make any economic sense?

``strong arm tactics are the last thing any one with any sense will employ at this point ``

THis is something like ``ulta chor kotwal to daate``, If you won`t start factories inside our territory we will invade you with poor, illegal people. first you allow illegal migration and when we try to stop it you complain about ``strong-arm`` tactics. no one is talking about trashing bangladesh for no reason. There is no time or reason for it. Its just keep your people inside your borders. Is it too mush to ask?


``superpowers [as india keeps saying it wants to be] and especially ones with an ambition to sit on the UNSC, are far more subtle till pushed to the last resort.``
who cares about all this nonsense, you are drifting. Like a true communist, the illegal discussion is veering towards anti-india vitriolic. I don`t care about indias superpower status or UNSC seat, I just don`t want these bangladeshi muslims in my country.

````comrade`` is not an insult - it is a term of inclusiveness... you`ll have to do better i`m afraid.``

i didn`t want to insult you. If I wanted I would have, I have many nicnames for a communist. I just wanted to lighten the discussion.

snark,

there seems to be NO info available on the CMs conference on the net (in the brief time i spent looking for it)...it appears media just wasn`t interested in it....that, however, neither proves nor disproves the report of kanchan gupta...if you don`t believe her, unfortunately, you would have to show us that she was economical with truth.

as for me, i will tend to believe her in the absence of any contradictory reports...the comparison with a.roy is pointless...a.roy is a proven liar who had to publicly retract her allegations regarding the jaffery family...the not so surprising part was that she apologized just to the family, not to her readers, and not to the public in general...needless to say that it didn`t occur to her or to her supporters that her inflammatory report probably resulted in getting a few more hindus killed...and to the world at large who may not have read her apology, the incident still happened.

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Re: # 132
unless you work for the BSF, you`re in exactly the same boat as anyone else on this board. and even if you dont think so, the indian citizens in the north-east think so and they`ve made it more than clear.

on a more a general note, while discussing this topic, a friend said:
re: This silly business of sealing the borders: the US has not been able to seal itself of its southern borders. The mexicans cross it easily all the time.
Poverty forces migration. Always has, always will. To stop economic migration the only viable way is to improve the lot of the people in thatcountry. Political refugees, are far lesser and demand a different treatment.

and i would like to add that the US-mexico border is vast but easier to patrol compared to the Indo-Bangladeshi border.

Before we get all fuzzy about the bangladeshis, remember Gangtok, Itanagar, Imphal ,Kohima and Guwahati.Do we care what the people in these cities think about illegal migration of bangladeshis into india?.We must if we are indians.These indian cities are the ones most affected by the illegal migration of banglas.The people of this region DO NOT want bangladeshis into their territories.They have made it clear to the authorities. They are indians and have voiced their opposition and as an indian i must support them and fight against illegal immigration of bangladeshis into india.I have to consider the feelings of my fellow indians first.I am surprised to see indians arguing on the side of aliens and ignoring the feelings of their fellow indians.Thankfully, these people seemingly live outside india.Good riddance!!!!.

Re: # 129

ps - exactly where do i want to drag them into India? and the nepali q was a digression touched off by the rumination of some others on nepal ...

Re: # 129

that post was directed at the post below it and was countering the arguments made in it. again, you`re jumping the gun.

sealing the border is a very nice option theoretically. so havent any one of you wondered why the indian govt hasnt done it by now? all these years, no one thought - hey, why not seal the border? all those bsf men - the govts of seven states, and not one of them thought - hey, you know what we should do? we should seal the border!

its the FIRST option that comes to your mind. but that part of the border is very hard to seal. so you have to think on other lines. as for b`deshis refusing to accept it - you arent going to bully them into it. so get over that. what we need is pressure from multiple sources. as i wrote in 59.

if you have options other than ``seal the border`` and you dont like what i wrote in 59 - what are your ideas? its easy to jump up and down and condemn... let`s see some dialogue.

and fyi east bengal is the part that had the natural resources but west bengal is the part that handled the trade and manufacturing part of it. east bengal therefore got the poor agrarian part that had to start from scratch. read any bengali about the post partition years or talk to a b`deshi who remembers a pre-partition past and you will hear it from them.

India was not the one pushing partition. Bangladeshis were. And they still believe in it. Why should India entertain these characters?

And why are you dragging nepal into this? Seems like you are just muddying the discussion.

if india govt has not yet made the connection between economic relations and peace, then they are sillier than i thought they were.

The Indian govt has steadfastly been pursuing this option all these years. It`s time to resort to strong arm tactics. Not wars. Just brute froce fencing of the entire border. Seal the Bangladeshis in their own country.

Any humanatarian aid can be provided to Bangladeshis in their own country. No need to drag them into India.

I do not believe in the two nation theory. While I think it`s flawed and creaky, and despite incidents such as the post-Godhra riots, I believe that India does have a secular nature. Some people declared that hindus and muslims were two separate nations and as a result, a new state was created more than 50 years ago. After a civil war, part of one state gained independence more than 30 years ago. But can you hold individuals responsible today for what their state did more than 30 years ago ? Are you answerable for or completely okay with what Mrs. G did in 1975, 30 years ago?

Aha_snark, whether you believe in the two nation theory is irrelevant. Whether the Bangladeshis do is relevant. They still do otherwise we wouldn`t have them fomenting Islamic trouble in the north east. They do not believe in living with their Hindu brethren otherwise the Hindu population wouldn`t have been reduced to 10% from a high of 30% in 1947. If Bangladeshis publicly declare that the two nation theory is wrong and they would like to mend fences with India then I would not hold the individuals today responsible for what happened 50 years ago.

If someone has lived and worked here peacefully, quietly and diligently for 35 years, s/he should get some consideration for that. If they are born to someone who has lived and worked here for 35 years, if they do not know any country but India, then THOSE circumstances should also be taken into consideration when their fate is debated. And by default, we should not assume that every Bangladeshi illegal immigrant is a terrorist.

My anger is not directed towards somebody who has already been here for 35 years without causing any trouble. What`s done is done. I am in favour of stopping all illegal immigrants from Bangladesh.

Your suggestion of screening illegal immigrants from Bangladesh is ridiculous. How can you screen illegal immigrants? What kind of logic is that? If the Indian govt was able to screen illegal immigrants it would have stopped them completely. No country would allow illegal immigration (otherwise it would be known as legal immigration).

Indian govt can throw open its doors to legal immigration from Bangladesh but it should erect high barricades to completely stop all illegal immigration from Bangladesh otherwise India would be shooting itself in the foot again.

Re: # 126

pls read post 59. as for the maoists - sure. thats true. but for all their hindu faith, nepalese would rather be nepalese than part of some akhand bharat. the incident i`m talking about occurred when some hindutva type went to nepal and was intoxicated enough by his view of the hindu rashtra to say that he hoped the day would dawn when they would all live in one big hindu rashtra.

and fyi east bengal is the part that had the natural resources but west bengal is the part that handled the trade and manufacturing part of it. east bengal therefore got the poor agrarian part that had to start from scratch. read any bengali about the post partition years or talk to a b`deshi who remembers a pre-partition past and you will hear it from them.

if india govt has not yet made the connection between economic relations and peace, then they are sillier than i thought they were. strong arm tactics are the last thing any one with any sense will employ at this point and i am slowly beginning to have faith in India`s foreign policy. the kind of thuggery that so many people seem to advocate falls in the realm of a country unsure of its own strength - a bully among nations. superpowers [as india keeps saying it wants to be] and especially ones with an ambition to sit on the UNSC, are far more subtle till pushed to the last resort.

oh, and btw, ``comrade`` is not an insult - it is a term of inclusiveness... you`ll have to do better i`m afraid.

Re: # 122

Comrade Amrita:

All your talk about indian government effort to help bengla govt. to stem illegal immigraiton is nonsense. How can you/indian givernment even talk to them when they DO NOT acknowledge that there are any bangladeshis staying illegally in india. Nor do they think that bangladeshis are filtering across the border. They refuse to undertake joint patrolling. Anyhow, indian companies are establishing plants in bangladesh not because of the govt effort to check illegal immigration but because the human labor is cheap there.

``the root problem with b`desh is that they`re poor and with partition were cut off from the more prosperous part of bengal. if you want them to stay in their country and out of ours, what we need is less chest thumping and more action of the nonviolent kind - the indian govt, i was pleased to note is already encouraging Indian companies to invest in that country. with more economic development, our headaches ought to decrease. ``

THe more prosperous part of Bengal is West Bengal? Bangladesh has far more greater natural resources than W.B. Its main problem is unprecedented population growth, mismanagement of resources, corruption. (its the most corrupt country in the world) Its the human resources that make a company/country. Look at Japan, Singapore.
Whatever the root problem is, it belongs to the people and the government of Bangladesh. Bangladesh is a sovereign Islamic country. if the people of Georgia decide to immigrate illegally to india you would advise the indian government to set up factories in Georgia? Wake up this is not the era of singing ``The Internationale< I>``.


``apparently the nepalese hindu fundos themselves got terrifically angry and called indians a whole lot of names coz of the perceived indian hegemony. :)) seems like nation is greater than religion for them.``

I think you have stopped reading the Maoist/Leninist news lately. Do you even know that a Dawood Ibrahim henchman, a india born Muslim Mr. Baig was in the forefront of anti-india venom. He got killed, probably by RAW. Also, all this anti-india stance is from the Maobadis, the communist rascals. One of their demand is to change Nepal from a Hindu-nation to a ``secular`` nation. When former President Narayanan visited Nepal the communist parties greeted him with black flags while they will bend backwards for their Chinese masters.