The Sweltering Sky

Re: # 137

hmm... i seem to have looped in your reply alongwith Dost-mittar`s. Sorry... and its mixed in with 144.

as for the insult thing - your use of ``Comrade`` made me think you were another manifestation of a disease called Gujju - and if you dont know who that is, you are to be congratulated - and Gujju is indeed dumb enough to think it an insult.

#143 by amrita

[mahesh - nobody on this board is for illegal immigration that i can see. the article is about those who are already within our borders and have been for a considerable period of time.]

And just how are you going to find out how many of these Bangladeshis have been living for a considerable period of time in India? That`s where the problem starts.

#144 by amrita on April 21, 2005 9:38pm PT
-- bleeding heart liberal.

.............I commend you for your honest admission.I wish the writer of this essay would admit her dishonesty and insidiousness.If ``jaffer`` is a real person produce information(face, written statement etc.) verifying the statements made.If not, accept that this is a bold-faced lie to malign India and he/she will face the consequences.This site too is complicit by allowing this writer unlimited access to propogate lies with malicious intent against an entire nation.An attempt should be made to contact ``Reena Bhadhuri`` ,``a so-called expert on islam at calcutta university``, to ascertain the veracity of her statement, and who/where this person made this statement to.We will get to the bottom of this.``Chowk, for all it`s high-falutin` statements should practice what it preaches.Or, it will be made to.

Ref amrita #143

[.... re: the border, if you can ``seal`` it to keep out illegal immigrants - more power to you. .... why do you think the Indian govt never thought of it in 57 years esp when they`re doing the same on the LOC? they cant be that dumb.]

Yes, they can be and they ARE.

In those 57 years, for a vast majority of the time, the government was controlled by the crypto-Communists in the Congress Party.

There has to be consequences for irresponsible behaviour such as exhibited by this author and this site.A PIL(Public Interest Litigation) suit can be filed in an indian court which is enforcable in the US also, to prevent insidious attacks against any nation by persons/groups with a hidden agenda and provide an honest forum for the public to debate, ridicule and analyze valid opinions and issues.I hope ``Chowk`` will verify all the sources of this author, before publishing it.I don`t mean to be a ``spoke in the wheel`` so to speak, but just as there is a ``limit`` to what one can say or do in public, same should also apply to articles on this site.The intention is more important than the message.

For those terribly interested in Bangladeshi infiltration in the NE, it might help to know that this is a give-and-take situation. All terrorist groups operating from the NE use BD as their base. Biplab Barua, an arrested militant, said, ``In BD there are camps where Paresh Barua and Aurobindo Rajkhowa live. BDR helps us completely. After we cross the Indian border they take us wherever we want.``

The full report can be found at NDTV.com, November 6, 2002. I have a printout sent to me by the Hindu Mahasabha!

It is old, but yet...

Besides, what militants crossing over have to do with innocent refugees beats me.
- - -

Thanks for the comments, and special mention must be made of the `pinko pansies` -- Amrita, DMji, Aha_snark for making this an extremely interesting discussion.

People who have never contributed a single Paisa to Indian exchequer, live in North America, Europe and Middle-East, are the most vocal in Indian policy matters! It is hilarious to note that they want us to invest our hard-earned money, not on improving the infra-structure of our country, not on generating more avenues of employment, not on giving better health care to our wretched citizens, but to splurge it on some God Forsaken country that is at the receiving end of natural disasters. The saving grace is that they have not yet blamed the natural disasters on some hidden Indian hand - conspiracy theories being a popular pastime in their pseudo-intellectual circles.

In their warped worldview, India should be a compassionate nation, tending to jacka$$es, looking after thugs and doling out goodies to every failed and pariah state. All this while the aforementioned failed states continue to harm us in all ways possible - supporting terrorism, encouraging illegal migration, peddling drugs and slaughtering our Jawans by luring them into their territory being some pointers to their good intent and even better conduct. They are not rooting for the underdog, they are patting a Rabies dog that deserves to be shot.

And why are they worrying so much about India? Hadn`t they told us that they had torn off their passports? Then why are they pontificating about this poor third-world country, why not enjoy the champagne lifestyle of their adopted country and leave the residents on their own. Anyway, the whining of chawl residents is a case of `sour grapes` that is best handled when ignored.

#150 by FarzanaVersey

[For those terribly interested in Bangladeshi infiltration in the NE, it might help to know that this is a give-and-take situation.]

Just how is it give and take? Terrorists set up camps in BD with full approval of the BD government, that is well aware of the fact that these terrorists create disturbances in and are wanted in India. OTOH, the B`deshi refugees (as you would like to call them) aren`t exactly crossing the border with the Indian government`s permission.

amrita:

Bangladeshi attitude towards India (I`m referring to their elite) is quite complex and it was not my intent to sum it up in that one post. Generally speaking, Bangladeshi elite have a lot of admiration for the progress India is making. In return I have a lot of admiration for the social progress, esp. for rural women, Bangladesh is making.

But almost all of them are critical of India. The BNP (think of it as the BJP of Bangladesh) and religious parties blame India for the dismemberment of Pakistan; they feel, correctly in my opinion, that while they had problems with the West, they would have been able to resolve it if India had not intervened. Awami League supporters (JNU and union types) criticise India because it does not help Bangladesh enough (the line taken by you). Neither of these groups is grateful to India for the creation of Bangladesh; instead they think that India should be grateful to it for helping it to dismember its enemy. Neither of these groups is in favour of giving India access to its gas or a trade passage to Burma. They all blame India not only for their water troubles but also for assisting separatists in the Chittagong Hills (this is something that you never hear in India).

WRT Hindus, the elites of both parties would like to treat them with respect. But they are facing problems in rural areas, where neither their properties nor their daughters` honour is safe. It is sometimes also mixed with a desire to drive them out and takeover their properties.

I met a few Hindus in Bangladesh. Their influence in the government and universities has steadily declined. The Hindu ``bhadralok`` is leaving or trying to leave. Those at the upper and lower end are staying but many of them also think that they are better off converting to Islam.

153 DM
//..The Hindu ``bhadralok`` is leaving or trying to leave. Those at the upper and lower end are staying but many of them also think that they are better off converting to Islam...//

Yes. My hometown in orissa is full of these people and more and more are moving in everyday. They all have pretty much the same stories. Persecution.

And these are relatively well-off people who have sold everyhting back in Bdesh and have bought lands here and trying to settle down. Those who are not privileged are languishing in all over rural areas of Bdesh. There is no respite for them.

## I met a few Hindus in Bangladesh. Their influence in the government and universities has steadily declined. The Hindu ``bhadralok`` is leaving or trying to leave. Those at the upper and lower end are staying but many of them also think that they are better off converting to Islam. ##

That`s very sad. In my opinion, all prosecuted Hindus across the world esp. in Bangladesh should be given asylum in India along with some help to jump start their life here...

This is the reason I have very little sympathy for Muslim problems, Indian or not. When they are in a majority, they prosecute the minorities while they plead for all Minority rights when it`s the other way around..

Thanks,
Avkrishna

Damn !! Looks like the folks at chowk filtered out my last post ...anyway , its too good to be hidden away like that....so here goes >>

---

I totally agree with Comrade Amrita when she says ,`` Poverty forces migration. Always has, always will. To stop economic migration the only viable way is to improve the lot of the people in that country... ``

However the problem is that India is almost as poor as Bangladesh is so it would be asking for too much for Indians to take care of the financial well being of their Bangladeshi friends. Still , as they say , happiness is a state of the mind . Scientists have conclusively proved that Gross National Satisfaction (GNS) is much more relevant than Gross National Product (GNP) or for that matter Gross Domestic Product (GDP).

So may I make a suggestion ? How about letting the Bangladeshis borrow and enjoy Comrade Amrita for a while ? That should enhance their Gross National Satisfaction (GNS) enormously...and reduce the migration significantly.

Farzana asks ``how does it feel to be called a refugee``, and then answers herself with a quote from one Rahman, who says ``Like a boat mid-stream…or being lost in the forest…or a chulha without fire...”

Good to hear that Rahman has the time and energy to wax poetic.

As far as I am able to speak out of the experience of being the son of a refugee, as well as having more than a few refugess as friends and relatives, the latest being another Rehman from Old Delhi who decided to leave Pakistan and start anew in his forefather`s Delhi, let me be permitted to tell Farzana what it feels like to be called a refugee?

a) Looking back, it feels very good in some ways to have been called a refugee. The value systems we acquired as we struggled through life building afresh in line with the dreams of a Nation, since that was all we had as goalposts, have seen many of us who are children of refugees to zeniths beyond any that those who were NOT refugees could ever even dream of.

b) To be called a refugee also meant that we truly felt that ``saaraa jaahaan hamara``. Other people had time to shudder during cold nights; we had to do well in maths on borrowed books.

c) Being called a refugee was like a badge of honour after some time. It was like a tight brotherhood. Nobody messed with you, and well before the word became fashionable, you knew what to be a survivor and thus a winner was.

d) A refugee lived hard, played hard and partied even harder. There were times when the nightclubs of Delhi were full of nobody else other than refugees and their children. Not just that, we refugees ran the restaurants, made the ice-cream, brewed the beer and ran the transport.

Being a refugee was not a bad thing, and for all those who point fingers at us in South Delhi now, do remember, as recently as the `60s, our schools were in tents and our homes were rooms made of bricks stacked on the corner of a plot with an asbestos or tin sheet for a roof. Sure, we didnt have the money to build the ``pukka house`` but sure as anything our parents made sure we went to schools where we did well. And remember, they made sure the girls and the boys went.

Funny, I don`t remember any bleeding hearts feeling bad for us then. Guess we were too busy studying maths after playing football?

#143,

Economic diplomacy is something that Bangladeshis do not understand. They refuse to sell natural gas to us. Think of the amount of money they would make selling fuel to us. Why don`t they want to do it?

Building a fence can be done. Just because it was not done in the last 57 years does not mean it can not be done. I can use your kind of argument to justify anything (Example: Poverty in India can not be reduced. If it can be then the govt would have done it the last 57 years).

If there is a will and enough push from Indian people a fence can be erected and all illegal immigrants from Bangladesh kept out.

A Pakistan like situation with Bangladesh will develop no matter what. As long as Bangladeshis blame India for their problems. The only way Bangladeshis can be brought to line is with a carrot and stick policy. You keep talking only about carrots. It`s high time India wielded the stick.

Fence the border and build dams. Bangladeshis can be kept in check by threatening them with water stoppage whenever they misbehave.

The leftists and `liberals` should visit www.mukto-mona.com
and other websites on conditions of non muslims in Bangladesh.

These illegal muslim `refugees` are weeds. They will proliferate like weeds. And then, destroy India. These namak harams should be sent packing. The first generation may be gracious, I`ve my doubts, after meeting simmilar Namak Harams in the US. Who eat the salt here, enjoy freedom, and then piss in the same plate that feeds them - without reservation.

Parsis came to India as refugees. They added to India`s betterment. I do not have anything against such persecuted refugees. More should be welcome. The adopted local culture.

The plate pissers should be chased out.

Re: # 157 veer
//...I don`t remember any bleeding hearts feeling bad for us then....//

Could be because you are a hindu. And nothing has changed since then. Even now, no bleeding heart is crying ``hot tears`` for persecuted hindus.