Gen. Musharraf Visits Delhi
Gajendra Singh April 22, 2005
#26 Posted by shishapa on April 25, 2005 6:24:01 am
Mere khyal se, Pakistani aur Kashmir musalmanon ka Nasha utar raha hai,
asmaanse dheere dheere jameen par aa rahe hai.
Ye isi ka natija hai. Aur kuch nahi.
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#25 Posted by ferozk on April 25, 2005 5:57:39 am
re: Dost-Mittar # 24
I think you have made an apt observation.
I am not sure, how far down military hierarchy this mode of thinking has trickled, but it seems that the corps commanders are ``on board`` with this new policy. It will eventually reach the lower ranks, but it will encounter a resistence from the ``bearded`` members of the armed forces.
Dost, I hope you remember that conversation which we had in the car, as we were returning to hotel room after the Chowk lunch. If you do, you might remember that I had suggested that once the people of Pakistan see an economic prosperity, they will shy away from politics of aggravation. They seem to heeding the call of restraint and during the recent MMA marches, the government`s counter-agrument was not to disallow the marches/rallies, but to suggest that such activities harm the business interests and might hurt the economic growth of the nation. The argument had a favorable response from the people, which might also explain why the MMA marches were so lukewarm. That also why the political parties are not raking too mud over the issue, because they know that the people of Pakistan, except for a minority, are not interested in politics but would like to better their lives and are thus, more interested in economics of growth in Pakistan.
Ciao
I think you have made an apt observation.
I am not sure, how far down military hierarchy this mode of thinking has trickled, but it seems that the corps commanders are ``on board`` with this new policy. It will eventually reach the lower ranks, but it will encounter a resistence from the ``bearded`` members of the armed forces.
Dost, I hope you remember that conversation which we had in the car, as we were returning to hotel room after the Chowk lunch. If you do, you might remember that I had suggested that once the people of Pakistan see an economic prosperity, they will shy away from politics of aggravation. They seem to heeding the call of restraint and during the recent MMA marches, the government`s counter-agrument was not to disallow the marches/rallies, but to suggest that such activities harm the business interests and might hurt the economic growth of the nation. The argument had a favorable response from the people, which might also explain why the MMA marches were so lukewarm. That also why the political parties are not raking too mud over the issue, because they know that the people of Pakistan, except for a minority, are not interested in politics but would like to better their lives and are thus, more interested in economics of growth in Pakistan.
Ciao
#24 Posted by dost_mittar on April 25, 2005 5:33:47 am
ferozk:
``In Pakistan, and especially in the only institution that matters, there is a visible understanding that Pakistan`s economic growth and prosperity is linked to the ending of the Kashmiri problem. The end of the Kashmir problem will also end the militantcy which is becoming pronounced within Pakistan itself and as long as the militancy does not end, there will be no in investments in Pakistan and to end the militancy, Kashmir needs to be solved. Kashmir is the proverbial red flag to the jihadi bull and there is an acceptance in the GHQ that the only way to deny the militancy in Pakistan is to take away its caus celebre: Kashmir. In other words, take away the flag and the bull will not be so agiated and once it calms down; it will be more easy to corral and to neuter it!``
I totally agree with this. I don`t know if this is the thinking of the entire GHQ but this certainly seems to be the thinking of PM and opinion makers in Pakistan. I haven`t read urdu papers but there is virtually no opposition to the leaked plans in the english language media in Pakistan. And except for Qazi Hussain Ahmad, the politicians also seem to be showing their aquiescence by their silence. So, Musharraf has used the US pressure to do what he is now convinced is necessary to realise his vision of a moderate, modern Pakistan. Another thing, which might have played a role is his muhajir origin. He cannot but have some emotional links with Indian muslims and realise that an end to hositility with Pakistan will deprive the anti-muslim elements in India of a powerful weapon they continue to use against Indian muslims; in other words, he is taking away the ``the flag`` from the bajrangdali bulls too.
``In Pakistan, and especially in the only institution that matters, there is a visible understanding that Pakistan`s economic growth and prosperity is linked to the ending of the Kashmiri problem. The end of the Kashmir problem will also end the militantcy which is becoming pronounced within Pakistan itself and as long as the militancy does not end, there will be no in investments in Pakistan and to end the militancy, Kashmir needs to be solved. Kashmir is the proverbial red flag to the jihadi bull and there is an acceptance in the GHQ that the only way to deny the militancy in Pakistan is to take away its caus celebre: Kashmir. In other words, take away the flag and the bull will not be so agiated and once it calms down; it will be more easy to corral and to neuter it!``
I totally agree with this. I don`t know if this is the thinking of the entire GHQ but this certainly seems to be the thinking of PM and opinion makers in Pakistan. I haven`t read urdu papers but there is virtually no opposition to the leaked plans in the english language media in Pakistan. And except for Qazi Hussain Ahmad, the politicians also seem to be showing their aquiescence by their silence. So, Musharraf has used the US pressure to do what he is now convinced is necessary to realise his vision of a moderate, modern Pakistan. Another thing, which might have played a role is his muhajir origin. He cannot but have some emotional links with Indian muslims and realise that an end to hositility with Pakistan will deprive the anti-muslim elements in India of a powerful weapon they continue to use against Indian muslims; in other words, he is taking away the ``the flag`` from the bajrangdali bulls too.
#23 Posted by ferozk on April 24, 2005 11:02:45 pm
re:arjun_m # 22
Thanks for the snippet of news, Arjun. This confirms my own understandings based on interacting with a few people and following the trend and intent of offical announcements from Delhi and Islamabad. I follow very unscientific rule in discerning the intentions of our governments; right off the bat, I infer an opposite meaning to what ever is announced and then the next step is to ask, what was the reason for the denial issued. For example, when Manmohan Singh said the borders in Kashmir would not be re-drawn, I was wondering what was reason the statement was made - to pre-empt a public acknowledgement of a fait accompli or not? Likewise, when Pakistan says something on Kashmir, I automatically assume the opposite to be true! :)
The formalization of the LoC into an international border is the only realistic solution to the problem, and the fact that there is alot of harping in India and Pakistan about the ``rights of Kashmir`` suggests that there will be some autonomy for them within an Indian-Pakistani condominium of Kashmir. I think that the UN resolution on Kashmir will be implemented but with an amended proviso; Indian and Pakistani troops will withdraw to pre-1947 lines and there will be a plebsicite not to decide the issue of Kashmir deciding it fate, but to elect representatives to politically administer Kashmir within an Indian and Pakistan understanding on a joint political administration; soft borders paving the way for a formal border and a more papable intergration of Kashmir into Indian and Pakistani politics as a means to administer the region jointly.
I am speculating, but the time frame of 3-5 years for the end of the problem seems reasonable. This is also speculation and I have no documentation to prove it, but it seems probable that Kashmir issue was decided in Shimla in 1972, but the governments of the time did not develop a popular political constituency in their domestic public opinions and that was to accept the LoC as an international border. I am infering this possibility from the Kargil conflict in which the Indian response hinted that India was incensed about the ``violation of LoC`` more than cross-border terrorism, because Delhi was tolerating cross-border terrorism into J&K since early 1990s. Cross-border terrorism gained importance after the events of September 11, 2001 and the attack on the Indian parliament, but Kargil suggested that the Indians were upset because Pakistan had reneged on the Shimla agreements.
In Pakistan, and especially in the only institution that matters, there is a visible understanding that Pakistan`s economic growth and prosperity is linked to the ending of the Kashmiri problem. The end of the Kashmir problem will also end the militantcy which is becoming pronounced within Pakistan itself and as long as the militancy does not end, there will be no in investments in Pakistan and to end the militancy, Kashmir needs to be solved. Kashmir is the proverbial red flag to the jihadi bull and there is an acceptance in the GHQ that the only way to deny the militancy in Pakistan is to take away its caus celebre: Kashmir. In other words, take away the flag and the bull will not be so agiated and once it calms down; it will be more easy to corral and to neuter it!
Remember: the Pakistan army is now adjusting its threat perceptions and accordingly, the newly defined axis of threats in Pakistan are from its internal political situation and not from external threats. Once Kashmir is solved, the militancy will be dealt with and after that, the issue of Bugti and Sui and Baluchistan will be solved. No Kashmir means that the influence of MMA and the religious parties, which use the issue of Kashmir emotionally, will also be lessened. There are too many potential pipelines coming from Baluchistan and Islamabad does not wish to lose all those millions in transit fees because Bugti claims the region as a personal fiefdom!
It has been a while, since I converted to the logic of accepting the LoC as a formal border, but I will give you the credit for being one of the first ones on Chowk to preach this idea! :)
Ciao
Thanks for the snippet of news, Arjun. This confirms my own understandings based on interacting with a few people and following the trend and intent of offical announcements from Delhi and Islamabad. I follow very unscientific rule in discerning the intentions of our governments; right off the bat, I infer an opposite meaning to what ever is announced and then the next step is to ask, what was the reason for the denial issued. For example, when Manmohan Singh said the borders in Kashmir would not be re-drawn, I was wondering what was reason the statement was made - to pre-empt a public acknowledgement of a fait accompli or not? Likewise, when Pakistan says something on Kashmir, I automatically assume the opposite to be true! :)
The formalization of the LoC into an international border is the only realistic solution to the problem, and the fact that there is alot of harping in India and Pakistan about the ``rights of Kashmir`` suggests that there will be some autonomy for them within an Indian-Pakistani condominium of Kashmir. I think that the UN resolution on Kashmir will be implemented but with an amended proviso; Indian and Pakistani troops will withdraw to pre-1947 lines and there will be a plebsicite not to decide the issue of Kashmir deciding it fate, but to elect representatives to politically administer Kashmir within an Indian and Pakistan understanding on a joint political administration; soft borders paving the way for a formal border and a more papable intergration of Kashmir into Indian and Pakistani politics as a means to administer the region jointly.
I am speculating, but the time frame of 3-5 years for the end of the problem seems reasonable. This is also speculation and I have no documentation to prove it, but it seems probable that Kashmir issue was decided in Shimla in 1972, but the governments of the time did not develop a popular political constituency in their domestic public opinions and that was to accept the LoC as an international border. I am infering this possibility from the Kargil conflict in which the Indian response hinted that India was incensed about the ``violation of LoC`` more than cross-border terrorism, because Delhi was tolerating cross-border terrorism into J&K since early 1990s. Cross-border terrorism gained importance after the events of September 11, 2001 and the attack on the Indian parliament, but Kargil suggested that the Indians were upset because Pakistan had reneged on the Shimla agreements.
In Pakistan, and especially in the only institution that matters, there is a visible understanding that Pakistan`s economic growth and prosperity is linked to the ending of the Kashmiri problem. The end of the Kashmir problem will also end the militantcy which is becoming pronounced within Pakistan itself and as long as the militancy does not end, there will be no in investments in Pakistan and to end the militancy, Kashmir needs to be solved. Kashmir is the proverbial red flag to the jihadi bull and there is an acceptance in the GHQ that the only way to deny the militancy in Pakistan is to take away its caus celebre: Kashmir. In other words, take away the flag and the bull will not be so agiated and once it calms down; it will be more easy to corral and to neuter it!
Remember: the Pakistan army is now adjusting its threat perceptions and accordingly, the newly defined axis of threats in Pakistan are from its internal political situation and not from external threats. Once Kashmir is solved, the militancy will be dealt with and after that, the issue of Bugti and Sui and Baluchistan will be solved. No Kashmir means that the influence of MMA and the religious parties, which use the issue of Kashmir emotionally, will also be lessened. There are too many potential pipelines coming from Baluchistan and Islamabad does not wish to lose all those millions in transit fees because Bugti claims the region as a personal fiefdom!
It has been a while, since I converted to the logic of accepting the LoC as a formal border, but I will give you the credit for being one of the first ones on Chowk to preach this idea! :)
Ciao
#22 Posted by arjun_m on April 24, 2005 3:32:18 pm
Kashmir solution with status quo in the offing?
From Ghulam Nabi Khayal
SRINAGAR - Both India and Pakistan have agreed on a possible solution to the Kashmir problem involving some redrawing of borders but not conceding any major part of Jammu and Kashmir territory to each other.
Sources close to the Prime Minister’s office in New Delhi told this correspondent on phone that this solution had already been disclosed to the leadership of All Parties Hurriyat Conference led by Mirwaiz Omar Farooq who met President Musharraf in New Delhi when he was there a few days ago. Mirwaiz, when contacted, did not comment on this development but one of his aides said this plan was actually accepted by the APHC (Omar) but almost rejected by APHC (Geelani).
According to plan, both the governments shall give greater autonomy to their areas of J&K state. In the Indian Held Kashmir the pre-1953 status shall be revived which unites this State with the Indian union only on the subjects of foreign affairs, communications and defence. Rest of the internal autonomy shall be revived and the offices of the president and the prime minister, instead of the governor and the chief minister, shall be restored.
A similar plan has been drawn for Azad Kashmir and Gilgit-Baltistan. Though the offices of president and the prime minister exist in Azad Kashmir, an equal status shall be introduced in Gilgit-Baltistan with greater autonomy given to both these regions under Pakistani control at present.
The softening of borders with free travel between Srinagar and Azad Kashmir is also on the cards. The Line of Control, with some adjustments, might be made into an international border.
This plan though kept secret for the time being has somehow leaked out from the prime minister’s office in Delhi.
The disclosure of the Pakistani Information Minister Sheikh Rashid Ahmed that the Kashmir problem shall be resolved before 2008 seems to be based on this ‘mutually accepted’ plan.
From Ghulam Nabi Khayal
SRINAGAR - Both India and Pakistan have agreed on a possible solution to the Kashmir problem involving some redrawing of borders but not conceding any major part of Jammu and Kashmir territory to each other.
Sources close to the Prime Minister’s office in New Delhi told this correspondent on phone that this solution had already been disclosed to the leadership of All Parties Hurriyat Conference led by Mirwaiz Omar Farooq who met President Musharraf in New Delhi when he was there a few days ago. Mirwaiz, when contacted, did not comment on this development but one of his aides said this plan was actually accepted by the APHC (Omar) but almost rejected by APHC (Geelani).
According to plan, both the governments shall give greater autonomy to their areas of J&K state. In the Indian Held Kashmir the pre-1953 status shall be revived which unites this State with the Indian union only on the subjects of foreign affairs, communications and defence. Rest of the internal autonomy shall be revived and the offices of the president and the prime minister, instead of the governor and the chief minister, shall be restored.
A similar plan has been drawn for Azad Kashmir and Gilgit-Baltistan. Though the offices of president and the prime minister exist in Azad Kashmir, an equal status shall be introduced in Gilgit-Baltistan with greater autonomy given to both these regions under Pakistani control at present.
The softening of borders with free travel between Srinagar and Azad Kashmir is also on the cards. The Line of Control, with some adjustments, might be made into an international border.
This plan though kept secret for the time being has somehow leaked out from the prime minister’s office in Delhi.
The disclosure of the Pakistani Information Minister Sheikh Rashid Ahmed that the Kashmir problem shall be resolved before 2008 seems to be based on this ‘mutually accepted’ plan.
#21 Posted by cayenne on April 24, 2005 11:45:44 am
Last Updated: Saturday, 23 April, 2005, 16:15 GMT 17:15 UK
BBC News
UN`s Annan set for trip to India
The United Nations Secretary General Kofi Annan is to make a three-day visit to India starting on Monday.
Mr Annan will meet President APJ Kalam, Prime Minister Manmohan Singh and Foreign Minister Natwar Singh.
Mr Annan, who last visited India in 2000, is currently in the Indonesian capital Jakarta for the Asian-African Summit, also attended by India`s PM.
India is one of the countries hoping to secure a permanent seat on the UN Security Council.
The last sentence explains the special treatment meted out to Musharaf.I understand.And, all along i thought he wanted to visit his hometown, with a long term view of retiring there instead of being disposed of . like his army predecessors.Sorry!!.I can be forgiven, for wishing Musharaf well, i hope.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/4477079.stm
BBC News
UN`s Annan set for trip to India
The United Nations Secretary General Kofi Annan is to make a three-day visit to India starting on Monday.
Mr Annan will meet President APJ Kalam, Prime Minister Manmohan Singh and Foreign Minister Natwar Singh.
Mr Annan, who last visited India in 2000, is currently in the Indonesian capital Jakarta for the Asian-African Summit, also attended by India`s PM.
India is one of the countries hoping to secure a permanent seat on the UN Security Council.
The last sentence explains the special treatment meted out to Musharaf.I understand.And, all along i thought he wanted to visit his hometown, with a long term view of retiring there instead of being disposed of . like his army predecessors.Sorry!!.I can be forgiven, for wishing Musharaf well, i hope.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/4477079.stm
#20 Posted by warpster on April 24, 2005 11:12:46 am
Pakistan has to integrate its economy with the Indian economy. That is no longer debatable. Just like India has to integrate with the global economy.
In so doing, expect other types of integration as well (education for one). In 20 years, it will be closer to a EU type situation (India is already like an advanced EU, it is essentially a multi nation setup).
Territorial disputes dont hold precedence over economic issues. Welcome to the 21st century.
#19 Posted by arjun_m on April 24, 2005 7:52:11 am
#11 by taqat-e-parvaaz on April 23, 2005 6:05pm PT
uh-oh...think of all the Indian soldiers who pee in the kashmiri rivers...you know, the rivers that flow from Indian Kashmir into pakistan...the one`s that Pakistan is sooo dependant upon...
uh-oh...think of all the Indian soldiers who pee in the kashmiri rivers...you know, the rivers that flow from Indian Kashmir into pakistan...the one`s that Pakistan is sooo dependant upon...
#18 Posted by arjun_m on April 24, 2005 7:36:31 am
#9 by taqat-e-parvaaz on April 23, 2005 4:11pm PT
india must resolve the problem of kashmir.
or what porkchops....you`ll send your army to take liberate Kashmir from the evil hindoos?
You might find that evicting the Indian army from Kashmir is slightly more difficult than evicting Nawaz Sharif from the PM`s house.....
india must resolve the problem of kashmir.
or what porkchops....you`ll send your army to take liberate Kashmir from the evil hindoos?
You might find that evicting the Indian army from Kashmir is slightly more difficult than evicting Nawaz Sharif from the PM`s house.....
#17 Posted by cayenne on April 24, 2005 3:21:25 am
The Indian embassy in Pak is issuing 10000 visas a month!!!.10000 paks are traipsing through india every month!!!.I have had heartburn ever since i came across this little tidbit.The pak embassy in New Delhi doesn`t even receive so many applications in three months.Raise the alarm!!.Sound the bugles!!.Call or email your local MLA/MP.Read ``Outlook`` mag.Natwar Singh is the brother-in-law of Punjab CM Amarinder Singh. I will include the PM in all my prayers from now on.As far as the army sex stories, india is an open society where all matters are discussed and dissected by the press.Sometimes, news is also exaggerated by vested interests.Army men have been having sex with each other through the millenia.Who else will they have sex with, other than local whores?.I have heard stories about the pak army too from tourists.It seems they like young white men.This was in the old days, when the few white men would venture into pakistan!!.Big deal!!.As for AIDS, typical indian way of dealing with something.Make a big deal, scare the public into submission.Better than enforcement.
#16 Posted by TheDivisionBell on April 23, 2005 11:51:06 pm
#15
The reference to Tahmed sahib was from another board, apologies for the mix-up.
The reference to Tahmed sahib was from another board, apologies for the mix-up.
#15 Posted by TheDivisionBell on April 23, 2005 11:49:25 pm
I find this equation (India = Hindu) decidedly misleading. It is used by Pakistanis in many other fora. It does grave injustice to members of the `minority` who have made stellar contributions to India`s progress since independence.
#14
Are you suggesting that a premier writer/thinker is always correct ? That we have no right to belittle anything he/she says of does because he/she is beyond reproach, and any criticism relegates the proponent to being labelled a dimwit ?
Tahmed sahib :
Sir,
You extrapolated my assertion about some Indians being arrogant to us belittling other nationalities, and then somehow equation all this to VHP/RSS ideology. I submit I may be blind to your line of reasoning because of my relatively tender age, please enlighten me on this particular line of logic.
#14
Are you suggesting that a premier writer/thinker is always correct ? That we have no right to belittle anything he/she says of does because he/she is beyond reproach, and any criticism relegates the proponent to being labelled a dimwit ?
Tahmed sahib :
Sir,
You extrapolated my assertion about some Indians being arrogant to us belittling other nationalities, and then somehow equation all this to VHP/RSS ideology. I submit I may be blind to your line of reasoning because of my relatively tender age, please enlighten me on this particular line of logic.
#14 Posted by taqat-e-parvaaz on April 23, 2005 10:24:42 pm
Re: # 13
i can safely say after reading your post that ayaz amir`s IQ is probably double what yours is. he`s one of pakistans premier writers. belittling him just shows the indian character.
i can safely say after reading your post that ayaz amir`s IQ is probably double what yours is. he`s one of pakistans premier writers. belittling him just shows the indian character.
#13 Posted by ballukhan on April 23, 2005 9:50:37 pm
Re: # 2
Ayaz Amir came up on a TV show and made an ar$e of himself by showing himself as another bigoted in the making.......he talked about the petty ``Chalakiyan`` over Kashmir that the (Hindu) Indians have been making ........OTH Mush was very different and realistic this time.............and imagine how some of these Paki journalists talk about the `unfinished business` of partition that Kashmir is........as if the question as to whether the IM-s in 2005 want to go to Pakistan is still not finally settled forever and as if this partition business is an ongoing process which the IM-s would be forced to confront whenever the Pakis want to raise the issue of `unfinished` business of partition!!!
This is the reality of the pathetic Pakistani din-e-fasaad!!! ...............
Ayaz Amir came up on a TV show and made an ar$e of himself by showing himself as another bigoted in the making.......he talked about the petty ``Chalakiyan`` over Kashmir that the (Hindu) Indians have been making ........OTH Mush was very different and realistic this time.............and imagine how some of these Paki journalists talk about the `unfinished business` of partition that Kashmir is........as if the question as to whether the IM-s in 2005 want to go to Pakistan is still not finally settled forever and as if this partition business is an ongoing process which the IM-s would be forced to confront whenever the Pakis want to raise the issue of `unfinished` business of partition!!!
This is the reality of the pathetic Pakistani din-e-fasaad!!! ...............
#12 Posted by bbabu on April 23, 2005 8:30:14 pm
taqat-e-parvaaz #11
`` instead of believing what your fundoo press is telling you, bring me some partial proof that the US is `putting a gun` to pakistans head to make peace with india. if you cant, refrain from making typical indian inferiority complex statements like that. pakistan has never taken pressure from the US over kashmir. never. it has only done what it feels has been in the interests of the kashmiris and the interests of pakistan. and if there is pressure on pakistan, i can assure you there is pressure on india as well. india is not some mighty power. sorry to break that to you. we`re both third world countries with millions of poor. if the need arises though, the US state department could very easily stick a rod up your PM`s ass. i hear he`s into that. :) if you want pakistan and the kashmiris to think your establishment is sinceres, stop proliferating terror in the valley and killing innocent kashmiris. reduce the number of your army men in the valley. theres no need for half a million troops to battle a few thousand freedom fighters. last but not least, tell your army men to stop having sex with one another. hahahaaa... ``
Can you bother to tell us why there is no more inflitration from Pakistan ?
Indian Prime Minister has never had to take a phone call from Colin Powell to decide if he wants his country to be friend or foe of USA.
Indian army has not vacated an inch of Kashmir.
What is your problem with 500,000 Indian troops in the Valley ? Cannot fight them !!!
`` instead of believing what your fundoo press is telling you, bring me some partial proof that the US is `putting a gun` to pakistans head to make peace with india. if you cant, refrain from making typical indian inferiority complex statements like that. pakistan has never taken pressure from the US over kashmir. never. it has only done what it feels has been in the interests of the kashmiris and the interests of pakistan. and if there is pressure on pakistan, i can assure you there is pressure on india as well. india is not some mighty power. sorry to break that to you. we`re both third world countries with millions of poor. if the need arises though, the US state department could very easily stick a rod up your PM`s ass. i hear he`s into that. :) if you want pakistan and the kashmiris to think your establishment is sinceres, stop proliferating terror in the valley and killing innocent kashmiris. reduce the number of your army men in the valley. theres no need for half a million troops to battle a few thousand freedom fighters. last but not least, tell your army men to stop having sex with one another. hahahaaa... ``
Can you bother to tell us why there is no more inflitration from Pakistan ?
Indian Prime Minister has never had to take a phone call from Colin Powell to decide if he wants his country to be friend or foe of USA.
Indian army has not vacated an inch of Kashmir.
What is your problem with 500,000 Indian troops in the Valley ? Cannot fight them !!!
#11 Posted by taqat-e-parvaaz on April 23, 2005 6:05:37 pm
Re: # 10
instead of believing what your fundoo press is telling you, bring me some partial proof that the US is `putting a gun` to pakistans head to make peace with india. if you cant, refrain from making typical indian inferiority complex statements like that. pakistan has never taken pressure from the US over kashmir. never. it has only done what it feels has been in the interests of the kashmiris and the interests of pakistan. and if there is pressure on pakistan, i can assure you there is pressure on india as well. india is not some mighty power. sorry to break that to you. we`re both third world countries with millions of poor. if the need arises though, the US state department could very easily stick a rod up your PM`s ass. i hear he`s into that. :) if you want pakistan and the kashmiris to think your establishment is sinceres, stop proliferating terror in the valley and killing innocent kashmiris. reduce the number of your army men in the valley. theres no need for half a million troops to battle a few thousand freedom fighters. last but not least, tell your army men to stop having sex with one another. hahahaaa...
http://www.defencetalk.com/news/publish/article_002326.shtml
More soldiers killed by AIDS than bullets: general
Defence authorities sounded a health alert on Friday with scores of soldiers engaged in anti-insurgency operations in the country`s troubled northeast struck by HIV, the virus that causes AIDS.
``The time has come to wake up with HIV infection among our troops assuming serious dimensions. Now we find more soldiers dying to HIV-AIDS than to bullets fired by militants,`` Lieutenant General Bhopinder Singh, Director General of Assam Rifles, said in Shillong.
``We have a challenge at hand and we need to tackle it sensitively,`` he told AFP at the force headquarters.
The Assam Rifles is a premier paramilitary force of 55,000 troops deployed in the rugged jungles of the northeast against some 30 guerrilla groups waging insurgencies for independent homelands or greater autonomy.
The first HIV-positive Assam Rifles soldier was detected in 1992. Since then, 32 Assam Rifles soldiers have died of AIDS and 180 more are in serious condition at two treatment camps in the region.
After random blood screening, Assam Rifles doctors sounded the alert saying the number of soldiers infected with HIV was alarming.
Doctors with army and other paramilitary and police units in the northeast also say they are concerned but have not carried out the random blood screening that has revealed the extent of the spread of HIV among the Assam Rifles.
While the percentage of soldiers suffering from HIV-AIDS is in line with the less than half a percent of India`s total population, experts say soldiers deployed in the region are still ignorant about how the illness spreads.
``We find awareness levels about how HIV spreads very low among soldiers,`` said S I Ahmed, an AIDS specialist from Assam`s main city of Guwahati.
The Assam Rifles held a day-long HIV-AIDS awareness campaign Friday in Shillong with a host of celebrities, including actor Shilpa Shetty and former Jammu and Kashmir chief minister Farooq Abdullah, taking part.
As part of the drive, Assam Rifles soldiers were being given free condoms.
One paramilitary soldier, who asked not to be named, said he was devastated when doctors told him last weekend that he had tested HIV-positive. ``I was traumatised,`` he said.
Promiscuity explains the spread of HIV. ``We`re invariably stressed out and monotony sets in working in isolated and hostile terrain for a long period,`` the soldier said.
``So the easy way to relax is to go for casual sex. And I also did that without really knowing the consequences.``
``In most cases we have found the soldiers mingling with the locals and then going for unprotected sex to fight stress and fatigue,`` one Assam Rifles doctor said.
``Life away from families for a longer duration is one of the reasons.``
The Centre on Wednesday strongly disputed claims by an international anti-AIDS group that India has outstripped South Africa as the country with the highest tally of people living with HIV-AIDS.
Officially South Africa has 5.3 million infected people and India 5.1 million.
However, the executive director of the Global Fund to Fight AIDS, Tuberculosis and Malaria, Richard Feachem, said the official statistics were wrong and INDIA HAD OVERTAKEN SOUTH AFRICA. (good luck with that!!)
The northeast has been declared as one of the country`s high-risk zones with close to 100,000 people infected with HIV.
instead of believing what your fundoo press is telling you, bring me some partial proof that the US is `putting a gun` to pakistans head to make peace with india. if you cant, refrain from making typical indian inferiority complex statements like that. pakistan has never taken pressure from the US over kashmir. never. it has only done what it feels has been in the interests of the kashmiris and the interests of pakistan. and if there is pressure on pakistan, i can assure you there is pressure on india as well. india is not some mighty power. sorry to break that to you. we`re both third world countries with millions of poor. if the need arises though, the US state department could very easily stick a rod up your PM`s ass. i hear he`s into that. :) if you want pakistan and the kashmiris to think your establishment is sinceres, stop proliferating terror in the valley and killing innocent kashmiris. reduce the number of your army men in the valley. theres no need for half a million troops to battle a few thousand freedom fighters. last but not least, tell your army men to stop having sex with one another. hahahaaa...
http://www.defencetalk.com/news/publish/article_002326.shtml
More soldiers killed by AIDS than bullets: general
Defence authorities sounded a health alert on Friday with scores of soldiers engaged in anti-insurgency operations in the country`s troubled northeast struck by HIV, the virus that causes AIDS.
``The time has come to wake up with HIV infection among our troops assuming serious dimensions. Now we find more soldiers dying to HIV-AIDS than to bullets fired by militants,`` Lieutenant General Bhopinder Singh, Director General of Assam Rifles, said in Shillong.
``We have a challenge at hand and we need to tackle it sensitively,`` he told AFP at the force headquarters.
The Assam Rifles is a premier paramilitary force of 55,000 troops deployed in the rugged jungles of the northeast against some 30 guerrilla groups waging insurgencies for independent homelands or greater autonomy.
The first HIV-positive Assam Rifles soldier was detected in 1992. Since then, 32 Assam Rifles soldiers have died of AIDS and 180 more are in serious condition at two treatment camps in the region.
After random blood screening, Assam Rifles doctors sounded the alert saying the number of soldiers infected with HIV was alarming.
Doctors with army and other paramilitary and police units in the northeast also say they are concerned but have not carried out the random blood screening that has revealed the extent of the spread of HIV among the Assam Rifles.
While the percentage of soldiers suffering from HIV-AIDS is in line with the less than half a percent of India`s total population, experts say soldiers deployed in the region are still ignorant about how the illness spreads.
``We find awareness levels about how HIV spreads very low among soldiers,`` said S I Ahmed, an AIDS specialist from Assam`s main city of Guwahati.
The Assam Rifles held a day-long HIV-AIDS awareness campaign Friday in Shillong with a host of celebrities, including actor Shilpa Shetty and former Jammu and Kashmir chief minister Farooq Abdullah, taking part.
As part of the drive, Assam Rifles soldiers were being given free condoms.
One paramilitary soldier, who asked not to be named, said he was devastated when doctors told him last weekend that he had tested HIV-positive. ``I was traumatised,`` he said.
Promiscuity explains the spread of HIV. ``We`re invariably stressed out and monotony sets in working in isolated and hostile terrain for a long period,`` the soldier said.
``So the easy way to relax is to go for casual sex. And I also did that without really knowing the consequences.``
``In most cases we have found the soldiers mingling with the locals and then going for unprotected sex to fight stress and fatigue,`` one Assam Rifles doctor said.
``Life away from families for a longer duration is one of the reasons.``
The Centre on Wednesday strongly disputed claims by an international anti-AIDS group that India has outstripped South Africa as the country with the highest tally of people living with HIV-AIDS.
Officially South Africa has 5.3 million infected people and India 5.1 million.
However, the executive director of the Global Fund to Fight AIDS, Tuberculosis and Malaria, Richard Feachem, said the official statistics were wrong and INDIA HAD OVERTAKEN SOUTH AFRICA. (good luck with that!!)
The northeast has been declared as one of the country`s high-risk zones with close to 100,000 people infected with HIV.
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