No Retreat

Re: # 122

Dumbo, I am making a point as to where their priorities lie. Who the hell cares in Pakistan if women run or not (only they do) but they don’t give a jack about women being killed and rapped in the name of honor. It hurts their little heads to see women run in shorts but women being gang rapped and killed makes their belief stronger. You are a friggin moron if you can’t figure this much out. Meanwhile they think that the only way to identify people’s faith is by checking it on a Passport column, and you a perfect nutcase to play into their hands. Explain what one thing have they done right or a deed that has helped people of Pakistan in any way? All these londay baz are concerned about is who was the last prophet and how their tight ass Wahabi bullcrap is the most righteous belief system. They can shove it.

Re: # 121
You are trying to mix Muktharan issue with women marathon and my fellow friend ``Romair`` is also trying to proof the same point to ``Urstruly``. I just wanna say tht how you will feel when some one get rapped in your family will you discuss that issue in public. You mention about Mullah Khutaba every muslim and humanbeing know what rape is if he has some know how about sex.

Re: # 120

Romair, why are you wasting so much of your time on these people, knowing well that they will never come out of Molvi’s ass. If these Momanees and Khutame Nabowat people had raised 1/10th as much voice over gang rape of MukhtaraN Bibi as they are raising over women runners, tribal sanctioned gang rapes and honor killings will be thing of the past. Don’t expect anything from these guys.

I wonder how many Mullahs give Khutba on gang rapes and Honor Killings? How can they, when that`s what they are all about?

Urstruly #various: Since we are on the subject of hadith-based dressed code, I would like to ask you:

Have you ever gone swimming? What did you wear when you swam? Did you maintain the dress code? Was your navel covered at all times? Were the bathing suit down to your knees? Did it ever cling tightly around you?

I am asking this in all seriousness. The reason being that I think Islam is filling up with hypocrites, i.e. people who vioalate dress-codes themselves, quite openly, while pushing them on others..............Such people should be highlighted and exposed.............

Urstruly #113: ``I could help but notice the absurdity of Romairian logic..........

4. Since Prophet (pbuh) once ran a race with his wife and marathon is also a race, therefore, combined marathons are permitted in Islam.``

You have now come full circle. You are now, yourself, arguing against the points you were initially pushing. Let`s look at what you have stated:

You have, yourself, been pushing hadith as the basis of running today`s world. What else is hadith but books written by individuals like Bukhari et. al., describing what they thought was done by Muhammad. They don`t give a reason for doing things. They just say they should be done.

Why have a beard? Why wear shorts to one`s knees? Why wear lose pants above the ankles? No reason, except it is in a book of hadith. And that is considered enough for many people, including you, to follow.

I have always disagreed with that.

Now you, yourself, are stating the opposite, i.e. what the Prophet did, as documented by later, ``scholars`` should not be used in today`s world. If he ran with his wife, that doesn`t mean others should. Make up your mind.......Should hadith be used or should it not be used.............If they should be used, then you should be encouraging marathons, because Muhammad and Ayesha ran together.

And if it is violated, is it enough to just say, ``So sue me.``

I think it should not be used, because it cannot even be validated, through oral traditions. Not even its context can be validated. And people should be allowed to say, ``So sue me.`` Like you did. Infact that is the beauty of Islam. It lets anyone say, ``So sue me,`` to anyone claiming to be a, ``Scholar,`` or clergy, i.e. it does not give anyone a right to pass fatwas, or claim religious superiority (like you try to claim). No one can dictate Islam to anyone. If you want to display your seductive thighs to the American public, and someone complains, on religious grounds, you can actually just say, ``Hey, its between me and my God. If you don`t like it, sue me.``

Similarly, anyone (male or female) running in a marathon should not be bothered one way or the other by whether someone wrote that Muhammad ran in a race or did not run in a race with his wife. And if someone like yourself, displaying their thighs, or committing the sin of wearing pants below their ankles, walks upto them and says, ``Why are you running?`` They should just say, exactly what you said to me, i.e. ``So sue me.``

Re: # 117

``It is romairian logic; remember? ``

Is that so? then where are pie/bar charts and some dose of statistical analysis :)

Re: # 116 Mr net

It is romairian logic; remember?

Re: # 112

Shouldn`t

``2. Since in Islam men are allowed to have sex with their wives and fornication is nothing but sex, therefore, sex is allowed in Islam. ``

Be

2. Since in Islam men are allowed to have sex with their wives and fornication is nothing but sex, therefore, fornication is allowed in Islam.

Urstruly,

Here’s the flowchart of your logic:

1. Quran is the perfect guide for Muslims ( ... good so far … but then …)
2. Somehow this suggests that recorded ahadith too are flawless
3. In case of a conflict between the two … ignore Quran and follow ahadith
4. When in doubt, ignore both, and follow the ullema
5. When losing an argument, declare the other person non-Muslim and bail out
6. Feeling inadequate? Blame Ahamdis ... and remind us that they are non-Muslims (this trait you share with mullah tahmed)

And tha`t the travesty of Muslims of our times ... (sigh)

Re: # 112

Urstruly... are you suggesting that Hadis and Sunat has no place in determining today’s affairs, in terms of what is permissible and what’s not? I think that’s the point everyone here is trying to make. What Mohammad did to his wives (both young and younger) was perhaps normal for that age and that place, but it has no bearing on how women should live their lives today.

Re: # 108 beans bhai

even hindus do not see a merit in your logic, therefore, for your own good I suggest that don`t try to use it in public in pakistan. chowk is good , no one knows who you are.

I could help but notice the absurdity of Romairian logic. This logic is as pathetic as this dictator used when he invoked the Hudabiya pact to justify the murder of Afghan nation.

Romairian logic goes something like this:

1. Cows feed milk to their calves and women also feed milk to their young ones therefore women must be cows.

2. Since in Islam men are allowed to have sex with their wives and fornication is nothing but sex, therefore, sex is allowed in Islam.

3. Since men and women run together during hajj, and since marathon is also running, therefore combined marathons are permitted in Islam.

4. Since Prophet (pbuh) once ran a race with his wife and marathon is also a race, therefore, combined marathons are permitted in Islam.

wah bhai shabash

beans
``Pakistan wasn’t formed on the simple premise of Islam and anyone who knows their history can tell you as much. ``

her we go again... what matters is what most pople understand what the premise is.

#108 by beans on April 28, 2005 10:24am PT



The easiest way for them to gain support from the uneducated poverty stricken masses is by using the “Islamic Card”


When the MMA and related groups were using the ``Islamic card`` to produce Islamic jihadi cannon fodder to fight in Kashmir, it wasn`t just the ``uneducated poverty stricken masses`` who were supporting them...
Now when they take the Islamic path to the next logical level, you want us to forget that a majority of Pakistanis, poor or otherwise, suported the fundamentalists when they produced Islamic warriors to push Pakistan`s interests in Kashmir and Afghanistan...

You can`t be selective....now that you`ve fed the Islamic jihadi snake, you`ll have to deal with the consequences....while a majority of pakistanis might have deluded themselves into thinking they abandoned the taliban out of the goodness of their heart, the rest of the world is a tad smarter...

I cant believe people are still debating whether or not women should run!!

... on second thoughts, I am not surprised.

Okay guys,
i contributed once already, way back when this article was first posted but i guess it never made it here. Enough of this, going through these erroneous posts! There aren’t at all relevant. All this rambling about religion and politics etc is ridiculous. Its not that complicated. Pakistan wasn’t formed on the simple premise of Islam and anyone who knows their history can tell you as much. The fact of the matter is that the MMA, the mullahs and the extremist factions of this country do not pull stunts like they did in Gujranwala because of their love for Islam. This is just another attempt to try and enforce their control using religion as a cover. Everyone knows the odds between the present government and the MMA. The easiest way for them to gain support from the uneducated poverty stricken masses is by using the “Islamic Card” and what better way to use it to their advantage then ridding the society of such “sinful acts as women running”. Please note the sarcasm in quotation marks. Look at who we are dealing with please, the MMA comprising of uneducated men who probably know a lot about Islamic doctrine but little else. I’m not sure if anyone else has mentioned this or not, but women do run in Pakistan. This is not an alien activity in Karachi, Lahore and even in Islamabad. You can go to parks there and see women running, wearing anything that really suits them. They are not tear gassed or harassed. What the MMA did was simply a publicity stunt; nonetheless it should have been dealt with harshly by the present government. All this talk about religion and what is permissible and what is not is so absurd! There are a lot of things happening in Pakistan that are probably not permissible according to Islamic principles but they’re happening and the MMA knows and so does everyone else. Quit the bullshit and get to the point!