No Retreat

Re: # 72

``...needless to say, they`d still kick your ass :-)``

Watching them skillfully handling the nunchuks, I wouldn`t dare them ;)

``No, the extreme is suggesting that objecting implies they should be running in bloody burkahs. Running a marathon in a conservative country in shorts is bound to cause controversy....``

I hope you didn`t take it seriously. It was just a satire.

inndian cops only need skills like
asking for a hafta
eating pan
scowling

all these can be done very well in saris ..who needs pants.

Re: # 71

`` indian cops do wear saris. its local dress...in iran burkha is local dress.``

But that doesn`t mean a woman will do all kinds of things in the local dress. Indian women won`t run/swim in saris. The sight of ghost-like burkah clad woman jumping from building was indeed awesome though. I am wondering whether sari-wearing cops also do that. Also, the lower level cops wear sari whereas the officer class wear trousers.

Netizen,

They don`t wear bikins, and that`s the point. Most cops I know are out in partial body armor in paramilitary style uniforms. The garb worn by the female cops in Iran differ little in terms of coverage and functionality than uniforms...in fact, the only draw back is that they probably can`t full-out sprint...but then 80% of the pot-belly cops here can`t either so...but in any case it`s for the Iranians to work it out....but of course it`s a covering so *gasp, shock, horror*....needless to say, they`d still kick your ass :-)

``thats the extreme, running in a marathon in shorts has become an ``issue````

No, the extreme is suggesting that objecting implies they should be running in bloody burkahs. Running a marathon in a conservative country in shorts is bound to cause controversy....

neti.. indian cops do wear saris. its local dress...in iran burkha is local dress. its that simple.

Re: # 67

``...would you rather they wear bikinis?``

in which part of the world women cops wear bikinis? You see them only in X-rated movies.

Re: # 67

``yet another account of trying to subvert an issue by reducing things ``

thats the extreme, running in a marathon in shorts has become an ``issue``

Re: # 67

``And as for the ``burkah`` wearing cops...unh...would you rather they wear bikinis? Duh... ``

I don`t care. I don`t hold an Iranian passport nor do I share the ideology. Its just a fact and Pakistan being an islamic country would not be averse to the idea.

...fasinating...yet another account of trying to subvert an issue by reducing things to the most extreame view...

And as for the ``burkah`` wearing cops...unh...would you rather they wear bikinis? Duh...

Some time back an islamic country (Afghanistan during Taliban?) didn`t allow men to play soccer in shorts, the players were forced to wear long pants/trousers (?). It was a funny scene.
Urstruly and Romair:
What does Qura`n and Hadith say about playing soccer?

All this hangama for running in shorts? I have a propostition which can satisfy both the parties. Let the women run in burkhas, the only problem will be that it would be difficult to know who is leading/trailing, people will just have to wait till someone crosses the finishing line.
The other day I saw on Comedy channel how burkha wearing Iranian woman cops were jumping from building, handling the nunchuks ...Pakis can replicate this model in their cuntry too.

i think urstruly, HisExcellency (and MMA) are right. its socially incongruent to have a marathon for women (in shorts) in Peshawar. Its OK to have it in a secluded Pindi club grounds, guarded by good-sepoys of Mangla Core.

Re: # 52 Romair

First of all, under Islamic jurisprudence (as it is inferred from Qura`n and Hadith) the bare minimum for both men and women is specifically defined in no uncertain terms. For men the bare minimum (in jurists terminology it is called ``sattar`` meaning the `covered` or `hidden`.) is an area that starts right below the navel and goes up to right above the knee cap. Every Pakistani student in primary classes knows that. So men can wear shorts, without even wearing shirts. I have thus worn shorts. Rest of your post is based on your ignorance of this fact so I am ignoring it.

As for the issue of ``showing`` one`s woman is concerned it has a social aspect and then there is a philosophical aspect.

The social aspect is that this foreign ``custom`` is being forced upon us by a puppet regime at the behest of their foreign masters. That naturally creates a resistance in the minds of those people who are being forced upon with a value system that contradicts their own social and cultural norms and violates their value system. So it is very easy for the current regime, that has no political constituency among the very people they rule and have taken power by violating the highest law of the country at gunpoint, to find some testicle-kisser type people who would bring out their women to please their masters. There is no shortage of such people. A good number of such people is currently gathered around this regime. Keep in mind that these very people were running key clubs in pre- Zia era and became ``pious`` and devout Muslims in Zia era overnight; and now in this era they have become ``moderates``. Since they are in power, whatever they can force whatever they want upon society and that becomes the start of a norm in the society later (so as long as the regime doesn`t change). Such regimes, however, change overnight, and these testicle types change with it as well. However, that ``social evil`` that they started and took hold in the society in the previous regime does not change. That is one of the reasons that our ruling class feels so ``foreign`` in their own country and treat the rest of the country as their colony not as their own home.

The philosophical aspect is that, our value system is based on Islamic injunctions. While the social customs change from time to time and from place to place, the values remain intact. Whether we practice those values or not, but as long as we are Muslims we have those values. We may find million of excuses for not acting on them but whenever we violate or ignore a certain value deep inside our hearts we feel bad. This is the mussalman inside us; this is the `imaan` inside us. Having said that the system of values that Islam puts forth before us dictates certain decorum between the genders - certain modesty if you will – that in order to preserve the basic unit of any society i.e. family. It stresses immensely on maintaining the sanctity of relationships. Each family is like a brick in the wall it dictates; the wall is the society. The integrity of wall is not threatened even if few bricks become dislodged or broken, but when a large number of bricks fell off the wall, the wall collapses even with the faintest of threats. That is the reason there is no concept of ``individualism`` in Islam or Islamic society. We are all connected and every action we take has consequences not only for us but for those around us as well.

Therefore, the idea, ``those who want to do it should be allowed, and those who do not want to participate should not bother the others``, is impractical in Muslim society. Lets take an example, of strip clubs in Pakistan. One may argue that if a certain segment of the society wants to enjoy them then what is harm in doing that? Well, the question is that if society permits this arrangement then what is the guarantee that this certain segment of society will recruit the table dancers from among themselves only and not from wherever they can? The common sense suggests that they will recruit from wherever it would make more economic sense to them. So if you are a club owner and for some reason you cannot put your own sisters on the table, then you will try to get my sisters on the table. And if my sisters or I would resist then you would create an atmosphere and culture that would break my resistance. The show must go on, right. And what happens when a certain segment of society is engaged in an act that is considered norm by them but it is immoral and degrading for rest of the society. The laws of social dynamics dictate that these segments will try to influence each other – the result, the ``wall`` becomes weak. And hence, that is why, we should be very careful with `innovating`` and `introducing`` new norms in the society.

The people of Pakistan are not idiot ignoramuses or close-minded bigots. They have capacity to question; they question, the measure; they evaluate. They ask the question, what will be the consequences of this forced imposition of Western values upon them. They question where would it leave their society. They question whether these Western societies are that ``ideal`` that we should start mimicking them. They question, if these societies are so ideal, then why the basic unit of those societies – the family – is so disintegrated. If Western family structure is so ideal then why there is an 80-90% divorce rate among them. If these societies are so ideal then why 8 of every 10 children is illegitimate? If these societies are so ideal then why the woman in these societies can become the mistress of a man in the name of freedom and liberty but cannot have dignity of being a woman. If these societies are so ideal then why a woman is raped every 20 seconds? If these societies and their culture is so ideal then why in every minute of the day there is an honor killing of two woman by jealous boyfriends or husbands. Could anyone answer these questions, they ask. They ask why and how would we end up differently if we do the same exact things that West did to get to the point where their society is about to crumble and only thing that is keeping it intact so far is the blood money they loot from all over the world. No one can answer their questions. Those who are questioned can only have one answer ``you are closed minded bigots, so shut up and do whatever we tell you to do or else - daisy cutter``.

#18 by hamidm2

Next you will probably want a ``mixed decathalon`` in Pakistan in which the ladies switch from a marathon on the Mandi Bahauddin G.T. road... to cycling on the Jhang ring road... and finally slip into their swimsuits and swim across the Jhelum-Chashma link canal.

C`mon man, this is not France. It doesn`t have to be. Thre has got to be a less ridiculous way of improving Pakistan`s image. There was a professional boxer from Pakistan Army who won the bronze medal in 1988 Seoul Olympics. This pugilist didn`t wear shorts in the middle of Pindi`s saddar bazaar to practice for the big event. There are plenty of gymnasiums for this purpose. Why can`t women athletes practice inside gymnasiums and stadiums?

Romair,
I think tennis players in India seem to always get some popularity partly because many Indians like tennis. Sania Mirza has achieved the same level of publicity as Leander Paes did when he won the junior wimbledon. I remember both sportstar and india-today had him on their cover page. I think India really has a better chance of producing decent players in tennis compared to any individual sports. About weightlifting, the lack of publicity is unfortunate but its mostly because of bad handling by the IOC.

You have to scroll down a bit.....but this is the only link i could find for india`s female weightlifting bronze winner at the 2000 Olympics.....

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/low/olympics2000/other_sports/932038.stm


.......Whoa, i hope she isn`t a policewoman, `cause she sure is built like one.Imagine being pulled over by this one!!!....These are some comments by the lady in the same blurb....

``The magazine said I was overweight, drinking beer and eating too much chicken and cheese. Also, that I was getting old and was not serious about my training,`` she said.

``Let them ask me or my coach now if I was overweight - I have won a medal for India.``

...........`drinking beer and eating too much chicken!!``.....i love india...only in a country such as ours can you find the whole range of human experiences.....and we`re free to express ourselves any which way we want to!!!.........Aameeen!