They Came From the Brothel

Re: # 45

very true!

I think you need this medicine more than anyone else here.

1. Take it as many times a day as you can
2. If it`s too bitter for you, then talk to my hand (I`m sure your western experience has taught you the art of speaking to a hand)
3. When tired, go back to 1

Repeat the steps for the rest of your Ahmedi life and don`t look for respite, `cause there ain`t none por ju home boy.

BTW, I`m honored by Urstruly`s good ``affects``.

#44 ... burping like an ape ... makes an argument not
(it`s merely the Urstruly affect on you)

Re: # 43

rrrrrrrright....un huh uh huh...sure. whatever !

Syed (#36):

Towards the end of the post you forgot to mention … and this is why fornicators and adulterers should be killed.

What you left out suggests that your solution is worse than the problem itself.

Urstruly (#38):

Thanks for reminding us of the golden rule. Now, would it be acceptable to you if you were imprisoned for offering namaz?

What you left out suggests that you are the problem.

Re: # 37

I meant ``twisted sister`` as in the the ``twisted`` mind.If one is against prostitution one should not hire a prostitute.As far as i know, there has never been a social distaste for sexuality.Infact, quite the opposite, that those who police society have to throw roadblocks to lower the speed, so to speak.If the writer is from pakistan, and such social distaste for sexuality is widespread, so be it, and as an outsider, on reading about it, as in this article, i am entitled to my views and opinions which are obviously based on the society, city and country i live in.If we can accept all our viewpoints, in civil discourse and disagree, then we should be prepared to accept the same in society.For those who want to visit prostitutes, there should be prostitutes they can visit.It is a service and the providers should be recompensed for the same.Caveat Emptor.

unbelievable

#39 by Urstruly:

...as a matter of fact you can post this post at zehra rizvi`s board as well...

#40 by ntsyed:

Which board are you referring to...

koi samjhai
koi uksai
koi na samjhay
koi na samajhna chahay

;)

Re: # 38

Thanks Urstruly!

Which board are you referring to. I`m not following one by miss rizvi.

M`as-salaam

Re: # 36

as a matter of fact you can post this post at zehra rizvi`s board as well, just by replacing the words prostitution with fornication.

Re: # 36

All reasons are valid, but first and foremost is ``Don`t do anything to others` mother, sister, daughter and wife, what you don`t want others to do to your mother, sister, daughter and wife``. But man is arrogant. he always thinks that he can get away with doing whatever he can to others.

Re: # 35

Dear Cayenne,
On what you commented, I would like to post my apology. However, your reference to `twisted sister` is uncalled for, incest is not just a spinoff. It is a fetish, found in abundance in siblings, most of the time to be thrust under the carpet. We all have deviated from the actual issue, what the author probably intended. The scenario posed by him was quite naturally placed. What is needed to appreciate, is the social distaste for sexuality; even though every moralist would be found fondling him/her self in a most perverse imaginative illusion possible

What those kids were doing was nothing extraordinary, but acting just like men to whom food has been refused; what would those men do. STEAL IT!

What Amrita Jee has commented has a lot of substance. We shouldn`t just bypass it.

Polygamy has reason to it, and Amrita has put it, quite succintly.

Re: #27

why is someone who pays for sex pathetic ??

Because,

(a) he’s dehumanizing the woman by rendering her entire existence as nothing but a glorified inflated sex doll of flesh, blood, and bones that sets its own price for the body while relinquishing her integrity, dignity, and everything else that comes with it.

(b) he’s dehumanizing himself by projecting himself as nothing more than a glorified vegetable or prosthetic flesh and blood appendage attached to an animal who is slave to his hormones, or simple a penis with some money.

(c) he is raping a woman, the only difference is that she is allowing him to penetrate her out of a necessity or two – e.g. life threat or starvation, etc – if he pays her enough.

(d) he may be risking his life in terms of contracting venereal diseases, since no condom manufacturer provides 100% of safety

(e) if he’s married or has a steady partner out of wedlock, he may be risking his partner`s health and life, and probably that of his child(ren)’s too

(f) he doesn`t care if she is exposing herself to same health risks, and thus endangering the health and even life of her steady partner or husband and probably her children as well

… and even ok to rent your body..as in physical labour....but not ok to make money by renting out your body for sex ??? Why ?

For renting out her body…as in physical labour…she could sue a person/company for non-payment of wages, whereas a prostitute can’t even pursue a john legally if he doesn’t pay her. Plus no health coverage provided by the employer as no insurance agency will underwrite her.

now in saying this I am assuming that it is not forced

Keeping in mind that a woman can be “forced” into this profession in different ways, economics being only one of them, how does a “client” determine if the prostitute is “forced” into it or she’s volunteering? Even amongst the independent prostitutes, how many do you think can’t wait to get out of it and how many wish to stay in this business for as long as they can? Most of the reports from all corners of the world say that ALL prostitutes wish to get out of this racket as soon as they can, but can`t due to one reason or another. Can you describe ``forced`` in any manner other than the last sentence?

anyway I was saying that I cant find anything per se wrong with this act

I’m sure you don’t going to a prostitute, but do you think you’d allow your mother, sister, wife, or daughter to take up this profession? If you can’t then you’d be guilty of double standards…wouldn’t you be?

Summary
Prostitution breeds:
two-way exploitation (i.e. men exploit women and women exploit men);
human slavery, because it’s a lucrative business;
break up of homes and families which affect the children more than anyone else involved, and mostly negatively in terms of economics, love, mentoring, etc;
STDs since no condom manufacturer claims 100% safety and most venereal diseases are still incurable;
illegitimate children for whom the fathers seldom take responsibility, if ever;
infanticide, …

I’m sure you can come up with all other problems that directly and indirectly negatively impact the society at large if you think rationally and not just logically. Logic is a subset of rationale and it only goes so far. For example, even mass murderers and serial killers use “logic” to justify their offenses, like “he/she was abused as a child”, but rationally he/she would be still be wrong and perpetuating a wrong, either personally or judicially, doesn’t make it right.

Is it objective enough for you?

What gets me is that our “intelligent”, “enlightened”, and “liberal” people of this forum (except for amit), particularly women, remain silent on such inane questions. Perhaps they are just as confused on this issue.

Interestingly enough, to this lot, a woman having sex with her husband is often used as being a slave and property of the man. Yet ‘renting it out’ to total strangers with enormous risks of all kinds is “liberation”. WOW…talk about breach birth of a jackass.

If it remains the trend then perhaps this nation, or any nation that thinks like this, deserves to be annihilated beyond recognition. Contemporarily we can witness the falling apart of most venerated Westernized societies (that taught our liberal these values), hanging by their fingernails, i.e. military strength which erodes sooner than people realize.

Re: # 32

Capitalism all about `commodities`. We all are. You and me also, dear Cayyene


Dear Eintingeist,
I`m available for sale to the highest bidder.The market always wins!.And, don`t belittle the world`s oldest profession.I respect prostitutes more than i do feminists.That is my prerogative and i`m entitled to it.And you, yours.I am against anything that is illegal, unlawful or violent towards any woman.I treat all women with respect even if i vehemently disagree with them on issues.I find this article poor and in bad taste and that is my opinion and, i am entitled to my opinion.The author should have signed this essay as ``Twisted Sister``.Be more appropriate.My opinion.

Sincerely,

cayenne

Re: # 31
about time buddy - look back and read your own posts... who first paid attention to whom? and as for respecting other people`s opinions.... LOL!!! This from a guy who wants to write letters to the govt. As i said, Read Your Own Posts.

and while you`re at it, read what other people write before you reply to them. And the ignore button can be found on the edit page.

Re:wasif2

The reason for this mindset is because sex is essentially a very complex aspect of human behavior and a very powerful force. There is certainly the physical component which all of us, especially men, can relate to right away. However, there is also an emotional component which we should not underestimate, since it can have profound psychological impact on people, especially women.

If a relationship is good, no problems. But if it gets messed up or ruined for some reason or other, it can derail people`s lives. I am sure you have heard of crimes of passion where people are willing to lose everything they have and basically go temporarily insane and do absurd stuff due to the side-effects of broken relationships. Hence society has always tried to keep this powerful force in check since it can create havoc. In addition, there are always fears of disease and illegitimate children.

In my opinion, nature is cruel to human beings in that we are basically doomed to mediocre sexuality for most of our lives. The reason is because there are 2 attributes that makes sex enjoyable - the novelty of the partner and the level of connection with that partner (i.e. someone you really like or not). These two attributes are mutually contradictory except at the start of a relationship. If we get to know a person and really connect with that individual at a physical/emotional level, the resulting chemistry is very strong and intoxicating at first. However, as you spend more time, the novelty wears off and the passion cools off. So the sex also drops in intensity level. If you just go for prostitutes or one night stands, you constantly get the novelty but you never connect with that person, so the sex is not that satisfying either. Either way you are messed up. I guess, the optimal thing is to have a hybrid model :-), where you have a long-term partner and indulge in some side activities. But how many of us can pull off such things in life?

Thank You Zohair Vazir. Keep it up Amrita! And my dear Cayene, start doing some home work. May I suggest Kathreen MacCinon, for a starter in Feminism. Prostitution sure is another evil thrown in our face, by Capitalism. By the way Capitalism did not start with America. It is the mindset of mankind, embedded in every percievable act of `man`, which is unnnatural. And all most all acts of `man`, are against the dictates of nature.
If sex (in all its beauty) is consensual, within the `rule of harm`. What harm takes place is beyond me. Woman, however is not a `slave`, nor a `commodity` for sale; but then isn`t Capitalism all about `commodities`. We all are. You and me also, dear Cayyene

Re: # 30

Learn to respect others` viewpoints and opinions.And what gives you the right to accuse me and call me `creep`?.Who are you?.Miss Manners?.Surely not, going by your own writing.I have the right to my opinions, right or wrong.If you don`t like my opinion, DON`T READ, DON`T RESPOND..If you do, then be prepared for my defense.

This article has nothing to do with sex??.....I quote,``The women had been sometimes beaten and on occasions forced to have sex with men who were old enough to be their grandfathers``.Unquote.

On other boards??.I comment on what i see.Don`t call me names like `creep` again and i`ll give you the respect you deserve.I`ll ignore you.

Re: # 29
you should choose your epithets more carefully - one does not become a karuppu dorai by finding you creepy or even by being a commie and the less you say about your opinions on women and women`s rights the better - you have written about those before, you know, and those posts arent deleted... and your creepiness is on full display every time you come on a board and end up talking sex even when the board has nothing to do with sex. Remember the boards on other topics when your entire contribution to the conversation was that you can get sex, even when the others were talking about entirely diff things? They have the same word for you everywhere - and that`s ``creep``.

Now why dont you write a letter?

Re: # 25

You are a perverse and twisted woman.Who is meddling and commenting on the lives of other women?.People like you and this author.I respect every woman`s right to choose what she wants to do with her body.As long as she`s not forced into prostitution, if she is a prostitute by her own choice , she has a god-given right to be just that.And, i`m a creep?.I`m in Chennai on a business trip, and i hear they have a name for people like you , a female ``karuppu dorai``.

delete ``economic compulsions`` from my post. read ``are`` for ``is`` in sixth line from the bottom plz.

delete ``economic compulsions`` from my post. read ``are`` for ``is`` in sixth line from the bottom plz.

why is someone who pays for sex pathetic ?? to be honest, prostitution per se... i mean the act of selling your body (and conversely of buying-- it should actually be renting and hiring instead of buying and selling because its normally a temporary transaction)... anyway I was saying that I cant find anything per se wrong with this act... now in saying this I am assuming that it is not forced or out of economic compulsions etc... I mean the free decision to use ones body for making money by renting it for brief periods... whats wrong with it ? other than taboo... or other than human beings` obsession with making sex this mystery that must always be done in hidden places and with which is attached some very strange concepts like fidelity, honour etc.... Why ? I mean its ok to rent your mind and intellect as we do on regular, socially acceptable jobs.... and even ok to rent your body..as in physical labour....but not ok to make money by renting out your body for sex ??? Why ? Now instead of giving statements like ``because sex IS sacred`` or ``because sex is a symbol of this or that`` and so on ... can someone give me an objective answer ?

Re: # 22
Hmm ... and what price a creep who goes up to women on internet forums and speculates on their love life? Esp when he has no hesitation whatsoever in publicly likening his wife to a cannibal and spews venom against women in general and specifically those who belong to his own country?
Your biggest problem is not facts or opinions - its the gender and nationality of a person. Pls go ahead and write to The US govt and the India govt and the UN for good measure. I`d rather be taken off to jail [btw, dear reading and knowledge challenged person, being a commie is not a punishable offense in the US or in India] as a commie than roam free and be like you.

I cannot even imagine a man more pathetic than that who buys sex.

#13,

With shit I meant the content of this fancy dribble (not the prostitutes) and i guess `buyer`s regret` or what ever this author wants to project.

The content is shit.

Re: # 21

Commies are scary people.I could report you to the US govt. and when they run out of tracking down the mullahs, maybe the commies will be next.

OR, if you promise you you ain`t the same hag who ranted against the teenage tennis player on the other board, writing this under a different nick.

You may say something witty or funny.

Re: # 19
if i say something witty or funny, will you refrain from reporting me to India govt?

Re: # 16

I cannot comment on other`s personal lives , without first hand knowledge.Do you know something we don`t?.What people do in privacy, is their own business.

Re: # 17


Oh, shove away you commie woman.....say something witty or funny for a change....really....have a nice day.......

am:

not to worry!

(she does not am an ocassional double agent for raw-isi)

t - be careful, be very careful. Or India govt will get you. grrr.

cayenne # 15:

no excrement!

is that right? you guys must rock

now what was that with bal thackeray sahib and his daughter in law?

Re: # 12

Exactly.A whore`s a whore and there`s nothing more to it.It`s a job and somebody`s got to do it.One effs and then forgets.How cool is that?No wonder it`s the world`s oldest profession. .No pleas for cuddling, small talk and in case of wifee, bringing up some mundane family matter after rollicking sex!!!.What`s up with these guys in pakland?.I am at a loss to understand.In bharat, we have our priorities right.Everyone and everything has it`s rightful place in the journey of life.

(long post )

zuhair:

I am the Saint and the prostitute.
I am the virgin and the wife. ..

...you could have played with the title from bed to brothel but this requires a greater existential and mental leap...so how about from bed to bed-room to brothel... slightly less imaginative but may get the job done albeit with more of an incessant pounding suitable for the yellow dummy series?...ishtar goddess of love, war and fertility is a potent symbol...hmmmm...love and war lead to fertility in more senses than we know...or care to admit... i did a take on this some time back...let me google...ok here it is...wait...before i put it down here is a more recent take from my ilog:

akhtari begum
a smile, candy
bullion, stock
ghungroo,* mangal sut`r**
a price there is
on every head
n every body

innocent smile
thundering fatwa
reprieve from law
praise from the pen

sub kay sub hee bikao haiN ji***
said akhtari, unread but wise

* anklet worn by dancing girls made up of rows of tiny tinkling bells
** necklace made of auspicious thread and black beads worn by married hindu women
*** everyone has a price on their head

akhtari begum
shereeni ya muskurahat
zun hO ya zurr o zameeN
ghung`roo hO ya mungal sut`r
muta`aiyyann hay qeemat
her shehh ki, hers shaksh ki

pu`r maani muskurahat
garajta hu`a fatwa
tahaffooz e zul`m e sipah
moo`awenat e qal`m

sub hee bikao haiN ji
hushiar, magar unpaRh
akhtari nay kaha

and the older one:

ghulami
waq’t ki lehrouN ka toh’faa
ghung’roo hO ya mangal sut’r
zanjeeraiN haiN donouN hee
ik azli ghulami ki

slavery
gift from the waves of Time
ghungroo or mangal sut’r
living symbols are they both
of eternal slavery.

***
now a more pressing matter beckons...no not that!...;)
***

kaurasach says A shit is shit, whether it is lying in filth or in a ceramic toilet with gold plated trim.

i disagree!

* not all shit is manufactured equally
* not all shit comes out of the same orifice
* not all shit can be recycled (gobar)
* not all shit have equal rights, or equal pay for equal work
* not all shits dress similarly
* not all shits can be proclaimed holy ( tho` all holies can sometimes be...)
***

digression over...where was i?...yes, keep sharing

rgds

t

A person got philosophical over two prostitutes` sex with his buddies in ``the room``. Then, he lights a cigeretee and quotes from some fancy books. WOW!

Much of it is well written.

A shit is shit, whether it is lying in filth or in a ceramic toilet with gold plated trim.

The fact that you chose the ciggy over the jiggy doesnt have much effect...but it was a good read.....
``the women are as far removed from the sugary vistas of the Bollywood myth as an eight thousand rupees prostitute can possibly be. ``
They better not hear you saying that..

Tell me...why did you guys asked where they lived and who looked after them and blah blah...where you guys planning to adopt them??
I think left mysterious would have been better..

Zuhair Vazir,

Why, the assumed irony of wildflowers flaunted in the night like a neon net of dreamy fishermen. Too confused they seem, unsure of their role as prey in the hunt, so expressionless; starving to avoid hunger, sleeping to live reality, staying awake to dream.

They jest with nature and play politics with the devil, the anti-love. And when age besieges their crib of tender flesh, Israel sits by their side with a gasping whisper, ``How can you die? You didn`t even live.``

Peace!

Re: # 9

Okay ``mommy``.``Whenever you call me i`ll be there...lalalalala....``


kisses.

cayenne

cayenne:

Essentially a note to self but I guess you can use it: ‘Zuhair’ is my real name.

Take it easy Sonny; go home, I thought I heard your mommy call.

Temporal:

Looking forward to it...

Very creative writing, indeed. So much better than most here.

zuhair - this was interesting... what actually came to mind was a friend once telling me all about his visit to amsterdam, who paused when he came to the prostitutes. ``It was odd to think that i would actually have sex with this woman right after my friend,`` he said. they decided to get diff women. :)

i liked the fact that you kept interposing historical qoutes into the story, mainly because i havent come across some of them myself. but i agree with Beejay below that it could get a little distracting. it worked best when incorporated into the body of the work rather than set apart. still, good effort esp with the portraits of kiran and khushbu.

Nice attempt, an interesting account, but perhaps a little shallow (at least that’s how it appears to me).

I am no writer, of course, but as a reader I also feel it would have been better if you had left out the extraneous stuff and just given us the story. All those ancient quotations, etc. were kind of getting in the way (the story did not flow smoothly because of them and they did not add much).

Assuming this account is based on real facts, not fiction, obviously you had good intentions, but the fact is that you were in that situation by your own choice, so let`s not act too much ``holier than thou``! In your defence, however, people can act different when part of a crowd of peers. (Look at this Chowk crowd, for example.)

Hey man, good read. The meshing of history was particularly well done. Could have you used full names though - even if they`d been changed.

nice ! ............good read .......... a little melancholy, but true to life ...........

Re: # 2

For a moment I wanted to become them and as a result feel enough woe to be able to precisely dissect my soul from my body and absolutely prevent even a drop of my blood to stain the pure essence of my soul. I’m sure the high would have an addictive quality to it.


So, this `Zuhair` wants to become a prostitute and then get banged by men??.And, just `cause this article is in this site, it becomes intellectual and er, thought provoking?.He a friend of yours??.In that case, i will understand your shrill voice of protest.

zuhair:

excuse me...will comment later...more pressing matters;)


cayenne:

...With all sincerity and respect

kindly finish the sentence:

here is a choice:

*...of a broken drum
*...of a flat tire
*...of an out of gas car
*...of an advani at jamaat islami rally
*...of qazi hussain ahmed at a sena rally

rgds

t

I am a starry-eyed idealist by vocation and everything else. I like to read and write on virtually everything, except house-keeping. Currently I live in Karachi, Pakistan.


....Brother you need to see a shrink too, methinks.All this angst `cause of a prostitute.What country do you live in??.Oh, excuse me.I understand.


With all sincerity and respect


cayenne