America’s Frankenstein Monsters

dost mittar: I see you were referring to comments made by some Pakistani poster (let me guess: Romair and/or echoboom. Who else). Please rest assured that there are many more Pakistanis who are very proud of who they are, of their country. Romair and echoboom (assuming it is them) are making negative comments about Pakistanis based on their own experiences. Others among us have had different experiences - I for one cant think of a finer community of people than my fellow Pakistanis: hospitable, intelligent, hard-working, good humored, disciplined, with great cultural traditions and artists, free (with some exceptions) from vices like alcohol that I have seen destroy poor families in other countries and cultures around the world.

Anil: You are not the first Indian who claims that Pakistanis have ``written off`` moenjodaro and taxila. Please educate yourself before making such ignorant remarks. (I wrote an article once on chowk on ``Ancient Pakistan`` where you could start if you wish).

HP, hamidm and malik all going strong today, I see. Looks like you had a livelier time than I did in the meantime: sweating it out in the gym - burnt 1000 calories in one hour on the cross trainer while reading 30 pages of ``Ghost Wars``; did 3 sets of weight lifting while grunting like a pig (achh-thooo, bad animal); balanced on each leg on the bosu ball while looking out at the sun-splashed lake and lawns beyond. Not a bad way to spend a couple of hours I think.

Anyway, didnt mean to interrupt. Always great to read hamidm and HP, and must admit malik has been doing a good job of not getting angry and instead presenting his case. I may not agree with everything he writes, but this is certainly a good step forward.

Re: # 75

<<``#75 by Romair on May 11, 2005 9:42am PT
Unlike Pakistanis, who have the brains, but not the oil. Nor the homogenuity, nor much of a history where the local population did anything worthwhile (other than write good Sufi poetry).``>>

If this is how Pakistani intellectuals feel, I can only say that probably Pakistanis have a very low self-esteem. They simply write-off Indus Valley Civilization to Mohan Jo Daro to Taxila to the arrival of Islam on the sub-continent. Iranians maintain Pahalevi as the source of their civilization, and I cannot see how that be Islamic to start with. Would it not be approriate to create a Pakistani identity for the Paksitan Nation-State, otherwise who lives in Pakistan Nation-State?

Anil

tahmed32#88:

tahmed saheb:
Maybe you did not notice that I had made that remark with a quotation from what a Pakistani poster said three posts before mine.

hamidm2:84
....``whoa ! ..... i think we have a suicide bomber in the making ``..

---

Now that has become your stale gig. Pathetic!

You forgot your George Carlin routine? When you react thus, means my post worked. Anyone who berates Islam & the nabi (pbuh) will not be let go easy.

I do not , like you, subscribe to the western abracadabra of ``tolerance``, ``diversity``, ``pluralism``, and ``humanity``. Let that be the precinct of the effiminate ones with small t-esticles.

Are you keeping track of the # of US soldiers who have volunteered to get killed in Iran & Iraq. The sad part is that these poor kids are doing it for a few dollars more. Not to bring glory & honour. Like Vietnam, this adventure will also reap them the whirlwind. InshaAllah!

USA has been defeated everywhere in the world. No other ``Great-Power`` in human history has ever had that dubious distinction.

Dost mittar: Please dont make negative generalizations about Pakistanis. Leave that for lesser men (of which there are plenty among the Indians on chowk, those who cant bring themselves to call Pakistan by its proper name, those who have spent years on chowk harping on this one theme and their limited vocabulary that circles around words like ``jehadis``, ``delusional pakis``, and so forth).

You have no basis for claiming that Pakistanis are not proud of who they are. If you do, please enlighten me.

Re: # 84

..... whoa ! ..... i think we have a suicide bomber in the making ...........

Malik99 # 83

Hum ungli bhi dekhatay hain tu ho jatay hain badnaam!

Malik relax! Take medicine or whatever helps you with your “Humor deficit hyperactivity disorder”

Re: # 83

.... malik,

....... if you want an answer to your question on third parties in the us you could read my post #82 ........... alternatively, you could take a freshman course in american history instead of watching the jihad channel ......... you don`t want to grow up to be like chacha urstruly, do you?

dost-mittar:78

Thank you very much indeed!

Iranis, whether now or before 79, did NOT celebrate the new year of the western-scum. They have always celebrated Nauroze, their OWN new year. They very well adjust & accomodate Hijri year with Pehlvi year during Muharram days &/or other days of significance which clashed.

And then there are those bhangi Pakis. These lowlifes are paused in the missionary position ever since the fathers & sisters gave them `education`. Once having become accustomed to the art of the alternate orifices they seek that all their life. Our westernised ``elite`` is a very good example of such wagging & drooling in orgasmic ecstacy--as that cartoon shows: ``Good Doggie, good job``.

The Iranians excel at international competitive sports, they are not so enamoured with the western-scum sports at the peril of their own. They do not segregate between english-medium & other-medium to create a aparthied class (I will no longer call brahmin class because India has made tremendous strides there), Iran does not have a kanjaRR society anymore; Pakis take pride on becoming more & more kanjaRR. In fact for non-achievers, as is evident here, their only badge of `honour` to display is that they can drink, fornicate, drool in orificedom, vomit out westernish totaa-mainaa garbage .

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Ayatullah Khomeini, even though he was the leader of the revolution, was not in favour of the Parliamentary system as has been adopted . Despite his status his views were
not accepted by the consensus of Ulemaa ( Ijm`aa --in shariah). He wanted what , in my opinion, is the best ISLAMI model today--in CHINA. In fact it is high time that this Islami system is followed by every nation in the world. This was also the model followed by all the muslims Sultan all over the Muslim empires before the Colonial thUggs brought their ugliness to the world. In those days the separation of ``church & state`` ( as if the western-scum discovered it! Haa Haa!) really meant that it would be the secular SULTANs & Kings who would dare not interfere in matters of religion & spirituality. In India, just the history of Nizam uddin Aulia and Moinuddin can show you the power these mullahs, maulvis, and maulanaas yielded. They enforced shariah through the Qazis who got educated in their Madressas, much before the Britsh baboons introduced their own religious schools system--the missionary Screwballs.

It is time to set books on fire by so called ``scholars`` like Hobbes & Mill . The totaa-mainaas have adopted this western `democracy`
garbage as if it was something divine (Naoozo-billah). Time to upset this applecart. It is time to sit back and watch the western scum recede into the dark-ages; maybe give it a nudge here a push there & to see thisr `civilisation` perish. It is heartening that, as if according to a divine plan, they & their Kalloo--Bhoroo dogs are discovering alternate orifice use, their women dying childless, splitting families, are on depression drugs, are giving away their accumulated money to `causes` & non-relatives, living long to suffer more uncared for etc etc. All signs pointing to a an imminent collapse.

And of course there are those who are converting to Islam, with no material incentives, in galloping numbers. Masha-Allah!

HP # 81 writes ``For the sake of argument, just TWO parties would make the US a MULTI-PARTY system. Got it? ``

yep, thats all the reason you have left - arguing for the sake of arguing, rather than debating on facts.

Wonder why Bush keeps talking about ``bi-partisan`` instead of ``multi-partisan.``? hmmmm....

Going by another heavyweight (perhaps more genuine?) Romair`s criteria: ``If you have made your opponent angry, that means he has no argument left``, I will take your ``finger`` pointing as a concession speech from you and move on.

Next time come with better preparation, cuz u never know, these damn featherweights can become pain in the ass too :)

Re: # 76

malik mian,

....... third parties are well and alive in the us of a - they serve their purpose and then die ...........

...........senators from both parties represent a wide range of views and will fight tooth and nail for their constituents position even though it might conflict with their party`s platform .......... they are all there - liberal republicans to conservative democrats and everything in between - and they have served us well for more than two hundred years ............. and along the way there have been many third party and independents - most of them with single issue agendas ........

........... the two parties representing the two major schools of thought have served us well for the past 200 years ......... in the beginning alexander hamilton’s federalists backed a strong central government while thomas jefferson’s democratic-republicans favored power for the states ......... but as we can see today, both parties have though gone through many radical changes and over time have even switched positions on major issues ........... let`s not forget that the modern democratic party started by andrew jackson was a lot more ``conservative`` than they are today - it was the reconsituted federalists who evolved into the anti-slavery republican party ...............

............ and there have always been third parties but they have usually focused on a single issue which is soon adopted by one or the other main party, thus making them redundant ..........third parties were the first to call for prohibitioin (my favourite !), female suffrage, end to child labor, etc......... the socialist party`s platform was the first to call for social security which was later adopted by both parties ................. and even though ross perot was a funny looking man with big ears and a squeaky voice, his call for balancing the budget was not unheard ............. peole like him and ralph nader and teddy roosevelt have had a huge impact on american politics even though they ran as third party candidates with little chance of winning ............... in 1912 teddy roosevelt ran as a nominee of the progressive “bull moose” party in order to oust his fat protege william howard taft and he succeeded just as ross succeeded in ousting bush sr................

..............so, even though third parties do not win too many seats, or get their presidential candidates elected they have a huge impact ............planks from their platform are simply stolen by the democrats or the republicans ............ the people get their voice heard in a much more effective manner ........... it is a beautiful system that works

........ so if you want to, go ahead and vote for the reform, libertarian, green, constitution or natural law parties - your vote will not be wasted ............

#76 by malik99

“Could you give Malik99 a knock-out punch”

A finger would do the job!
For the sake of argument, just TWO parties would make the US a MULTI-PARTY system. Got it?

mahesh #68 writes ``Tahmed, Malik has nowhere claimed that Iran is better than the US. Can you point to a post of his since you believe otherwise.``

Mahesh - Tahmed has already made up his mind. Dont confuse him with facts and reason :)

dost-mittar writes ``Do more political parties translate into better democracy? India has perhaps more than two dozen parties represented in the national parliament alone; the NDA was a coalition of some 20 parties. Does it make India a better democracy than the United States?``

Dost sahib, that has been EXACTLY my point to begin with. That is, the number and sizes of parties does not matter at all. Each country has its unique requirements and ways of governance. It was tahmed32 who seemed to be lamenting the ``one party`` rule of Iran (something that turned out to be a lie, and hence tahmed`s disappearence from this board:).

China with its one party communist dictatorship has done just fine. In fact, I would argue that China would NOT have been able to become this economic behemoth and undertaken the reforms it took if it werent for the power in the hands one party. So long as the cat catches the mice, it does not matter whether its black or white - and hence any system is good enough if its doing the job.

And hence my original contention: The system of government in Iran seems to be doing the job of providing security, stability and a decent standard of living to Iranians. If Iranians did not like what they have, they would overthrow the current govt themselves WITHOUT outside help. They have done it before, despite the more ruthless nature of Shah`s regime and despite it being backed by US.