The Long Shadows of Hindu Kush

Rahulmal # 29

(Though, this is the first time I`ve heard that he was Khatri. I`m curious to know the source of this information.)

Chandra Gupta was a Kshtriya.
Refer to the link below.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mauryan_empire

nhk

Re: # 32

Nazar Saab,

This is what Wikipedia says:

``Chandragupta Maurya`s origins are shrouded in mystery. Having been raised by peacock tamers, he could have been of low-caste background. According to other sources, Chandragupta Maurya was the son of a Nanda prince and a dasi, Mura. It is also possible that Chandragupta was of the Maurya tribe of Kshatriyas, a clan of Hindu kings and warriors.``

Link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chandragupta_Maurya

Like I said in my last post, his caste is still not established. Moreover, Kshatriya is different from Khatree or Khatri. The former are members of warrior caste who today are known as Rajputs. The latter are a merchant community in and around U.P., Punjab & Delhi. The surnames are also different. Foe instance, Rajputs mostly use Singh followed by their clan name like Tomar, Chahmana (or Chauhan), Solanki etc. while Khatris use Malhotra, Tandon, Kappor, Khanna etc.

Did you mean kshatriya when you used Khatree in the article? Is there something I`ve overlooked?

If anyone has photos of the hindu kush range i would love to see.Meanwhile, feast your eyes on the Garhwal areas of the Himalayas.Garhwal is an indian town in Uttaranchal state.These photos are absolutely stunning and you will see why india is such a magnificent country.The diversity not only of peoples , but also flora and fauna.Enjoy!!...

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=208678

Very good comprehensive article indeed--nice peep into the history.
This all confusion about the caste of Chandragupta is a created one because the so called warrier castes dont feel comfortable in accepting the fact that the most powerful empires of south Asia were either established by low castes or mughals,thats why they try to prove that either he was illegitimate son of Nand or from a Kshattriya tribe.

I wish ``chowk` had a travel section, but i cannot but wish to share these magnificent panoramic views of south india.I feel like getting into my car and driving there myself.Even seeing these photos are soothing to the eyes.Mr.Gill., i`m sure you will understand!!!.


http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=209063


There`s so much beauty right in our own neck of the woods.Yet, we refuse to see it.Sad.

Hmm....as usual the eminent Dost-mitter comes up with his `social theory` of low-caste
and high-caste etc, and everyone else follows...

In ancient times, there was very little concept of `high` or `low` jaati - whoever was
in higher number and held political power was a kshatriya. Until the peshwa period
- there were not many brahmin rulers. Everyone who became
ruler was considered kshatriya. This is how jaati-mobility was achieved. One jaati
which is weak in one part of the country can be strong in another - this is true even
today.
So whether Chandragupta Maurya was kshatriya or not - would not have mattered
either to Chandragupta or others.
One should not back project present day prejudices and perspectives onto ancient times.


Also -FYI- Khatri, khatti etc are all apabrahmsha form of the word Kshatriya.

Rahulmal said
``For instance, Rajputs mostly use Singh followed by their clan name like Tomar, Chahmana (or Chauhan), Solanki etc. while Khatris use Malhotra, Tandon, Kappor, Khanna etc. ``

Names like Rathod and Solanki - are from the kings of Karnataka
called the Rashtrakuta and the Chalukya. I do not know about Tomar, Chauhan etc..
but I would suspect it would be similiar.
Again,We should not mistake the present day state boundaries and languages with what
existed in ancient times.

India (indeed the whole subcontinent) has had an extremely fluid movement of ideas
and people over millenia. Over a period of time this gave rise to a composite culture -
that is why as an example, even today, you have people who go for piligrimages from
every nook of the country to the various shakti-peeth spread spread all over the
subcontinent.

JUST OFF THE CUFF


MR NHK Sahib..

I always find your articles interesting and very informative... and pretty decently balanced.... and in the Near future I might become a Fan of yours..

you seem to use wikipedia extensively ................. most of your referernces are from wikipeida`s site..
no doubt it a very good one...

But I have tried.. www.answers.com its another very good similiar site... of course with other fringe benefits like dictionary...etc.e.tc..etc....plus a downloadable search appelet which allows you to search the site from your desktop.. provided you are connected to the NET....


Just thought I might interest you....

This is the irony of history taught.

The Khans defiled Islamic states/powers/religion/population in every manner possible. Yet, how proudly and eagerly they took the names of the invaders.

The natives who bore the brunt of the inasions and turned the tide are forgotten on purpose in history books.

One shouldn`t take the history at face value. History is written by victors and chamchas and is usually biased. With common sense, one can easily see thru.

re: Amit # 31

``However, I have never heard of any South Asian ruler providing any kind of defence to these passes. Even invaders who came via these passes forgot about their own arrival, until the next wave of invaders came in to subjugate them!! ``

I believe Gupta kings and Allaudin Khilji built a series of forts on their frontiers to defend themselves from the Huns...much the same reason Great Wall of China was built...The problem, I believe, was not lack of defences...but rather a lack of unity among Indians...more often than not it was Indians who would invite outsiders to invade and topple a rival...Babur and Abdali were both invited by Indians to settle petty rivalries...Ghaznavi and Ghori both had Indian (so much for Rajput chivalry) allies. Entire Indian history is a story of betrayal and treason.

regards,

Kabuli

Kabuliwallah:41

Indians who would invite outsiders to invade and topple a rival...Babur and Abdali were both invited by Indians to settle petty rivalries...Ghaznavi and Ghori both had Indian (so much for Rajput chivalry) allies. Entire Indian history is a story of betrayal and treason.

---

Thanks for this insight which unfortunately has become a very deliberate & conscious oversight for the Haraamzaadays & Ghulaamzaadays even today.

The maader-ate & lunlightened U-turn trapeze artist of Pakistan is the latest case in point.

What is the point in learning such history when we are determined to add more to such history?

Until & unless we do learn to zaleel & humiliate the US, Brittos, & othe colonialists, we won`t go anywhere. This we must do at the `peril` of being without their AIDs, of being poor but proud, of going to higher education in ``kick-a-farangi-today`` curriculam from China, Iran, Malaysia, North Korea ( South Korea is a pimp & prostitute like Pakistan: money in bank/ but conscience & honour in gutter) and so many other proud nations. These nations are deliberately ostracised from our own media when they humiliate the thUGGs in public.

Hi Chowk members:

How many here will vote for a PROPOSAL to change the name of HinduKush mountain range to something like ``Aman`` or ``Shanthi`` mountain range to drive home a message of peace.

Having a name full of barbaric connotation like ``HinduKush`` or ``Kill the Hindus`` only helps the MUSLIM MINDSET of average mullahs to keep the kill the kafir hindus deep in their psyche. If Muslims want to get out of the mullah grip they need to do everythin that erodes the psychological power the mullahs hold over the muslims.

Changing the name of this BLOODY mountain range will make a quantum leap in muslim civilization ethos.

So let us say, if we take a VOTE, I am sure all Indian-hindus(except the self-loathing PseudoSec variety) will say YES to name change. But the key element is to see how many MUSLIMS, especially PAKISTAN muslims who has the honesty and guts to accept this honest request.

Singularity:43
Hindu-kush is a good name . It is always a good reminder . Otherwise children will not ask why the name.

Well, nowadays the enemy comes by air and mountains are no barriers. If at all a name change is necessary it should be farangi_kush because the ugly Brittos suffered a humiliating defeat at the hands of the brave & chivalrous afghans...only one was sent back alive to narrate the story. (Muslim children`s eyes become starry-eyed & bright when this in narrated in class).
I`ll give-up the trademark rights for free & in the interest of BOTH countries.

It is a good name because no one can ever deny that the common enemy in the freedom-struggle for all Indians (pre-1947) were the British Baboons. This is a name which all would agree.

kabuliwallah #41

{{Babur and Abdali were both invited by Indians to settle petty rivalries}}

Ahmed Shah Abdali was invited to invade India by a certain Shah Waliullah Dehlavi. That man was an Islamic fanatic enraged by the decline of Islamicate power in India and by the likelihood of Muslims becoming indistinguishable from non-Muslims under a non-Islamic dispensation.

That does not sound like a petty rivalry to me – it is a complaint that has been voiced at regular intervals over the next two and a half centuries, by an assortment of characters, some of them Westernised in varying degrees, even while the long-term decline of Islamicate power and Persianate cultural influence continues unchecked.

I wonder how muslims in general and Pakistanis would be feeling/reacting had there been a
city in say Maharashtra called IslamNashpur (where say ShaistaKhan ran away after his fingers got chopped along with his army) or say there was a river in
Rajasthan called IslamNashini!

Would likes of echoboom be calling such a ``good name``? I would not.

I wonder why some people want to change the name of mountain range ?

Infact, it serves as a reminder of history. One should not forget history, lest it
be repeated again.
One should forgive - but never forget.