The Long Shadows of Hindu Kush

Shipsha:46

No need to be so maudlin & so sentimental over this. Don`t you think if there was another name for it , it would be known to us? Nobody NAMED rivers or mountains in an ownership/patented/`I-discovered` kind of way which is the method of the vulgar, low class western thUGGs...like Everest:.... Oh Now that is where we can make a start. Bring back the name which was there before the bufoon ``conquered`` it-( Kailaash? as Kaleedaas wrote)-was that not taught in the Radiant-Reader?--the Ba Ba Blacksheep course(which were the seepaaraas of tahmed32. Hee must be a Hafiz-e-Radiant-Reader, bobbing on Miss Muffet`s Tuffet while memorising the stuff.

Hind does not refer to a religion here. It simply means that anyone trying to cross these treacherous mountains would not survive because these mountains kill those who arrive from Hind. Why? because even today the ones from the hot climes of the plains do not like to face the cold of even Rawalpindi or Quetta or even Lahore ( just ask even the `hinduised` muhajirs from Karachi). Just imagine when there were no facilities. Even Britto`s couldn`t & the Ugly Americans are now tasting the icecandy. Russia has been `blessed` by these immense cold frontiers on its west south and eastern borders and that is why she was able to fend off Napolean & Hitler. Their stupidity in the Afghan war was that instead of drawing back, they engaged. What they did not know ( jaahil kee aulaad) that these rugged mountain men do can manage without propper even in the severest of winters. A reading of the Aaeen-e-Changaizee or the tuzuks of the Mughals PLUS the grand muslim literature on this would have made them somewhat learned. But everyone reads the west-point & sandhurst-stuff now. From whence can come the whiff of wisdom now?

I am curious to know the `original` (earliest memory) name of this mountain range. I hope nobody ever got offended by Nanga Parbat: Khalis `hindi` name to bring shame to those who live in, what is now ,Pakistan.

echooboom # 48

The only big problem that Hindu Kush poses for invaders is its difficult terrain.

The Russians had a perfect solution for the difficult terrain - Helicopter.

They lost out because the Mujahideen were given an anti-dote of Helicopter by Americans - shoulder mounted heat seeking Stinger missile.

This one FACTOR was responsible for defeat of the Soviets.

nhk

Re # 48

``Don`t you think if there was another name for it , it would be known to us? ``

``I am curious to know the `original` (earliest memory) name of this mountain range.``

echoboom,

Yes, you are right. From what I have read, I have never come across an earlier name
for this mountain range. Perhaps it was all Himalay (Himalay, Karakoram, Hindukush).

...abay jahilo...
the real name of this particular mountain range was... Hindu Khush...meaning happy hindu...it has been corrupted to Hindu Kush by the jahil angraiz rulers of the yesteryears who missed one H while drunk...ask boomboom...he will confirm that angraiz were the source of all evil in chiriphatikijai...the ancient name of india...

I have heard another interpretation of the name Hindukush. Hind + Kavkaz or Caucasus the mountains Turks were most familiar with. Maybe some of you could shed some light on this.

Re: # 46

I agree, this thing about killer of hindu is actually a communal slur/abuse...........I hope the authorities in Pakistan do some thing to remove such references to communal or religious carnages of the dark ages!!

Khamkwha:51
chiriphatikijai...the ancient name of india...

chiriphatikijai..? Can you please give the source of your un-jahil scholarship. Knowing you I suspect this is some kind of your classic Bi-Jamaalo antics. Maybe not. I must admit you sometimes out-boom the boomboom himself.

Care to translate it into everyday english ..with pronunciation?

I will not dignify this article with a response, which disrespects and dishonors the heroes of Islam, Ghaznavi, Ghauri, and Abdali and twists historically established truths, just to please a certain audiance. Without these heroes we would still be pagan infidels marred with superstition and heart wrenching disparity among human beings.

urstruly...
abay bilkul pagal ho gaya hai?...ghaznavi, ghauri and abdali were no heroes of islam...they were invaders and robbers ...who killed hindoos and muslims with the same sword...

Interesting article Khan sahib and even more interesting interacts. Both Iran and Afghanistan are proud of their Aryan heritage even today. Egyptians do not hang their heads in shame over their pyramids and pagan past. It is amazing that some Pakistanis do not want to own up to their oldest and the grandest university of Taxila( Islamabad), that predates Oxford or Harvard by centuries just because it might displease a certain audience.

By the way Afghanistan was still a Hindu country for four hundred years after Raja Dahir of Sindh was defeated by the Arabs. It was last ruled by Brahmins, some of whom even fought to aid and died with Ali at Karbala in Iraq. It would not be surprising that Gauri and Gajanavi had Hindu ancesstors too just like Iqbal of the last century. Khatri is Punjabi corruption of Khastriya, Mauryan empire`s capital was at Patna of Bihar, Ranjit Singh could have but did not bring back the sandalwood gates of Somnath because of some superstitious advice. Unlike the present day Khalistanis, Ranjit Singh, Hari singh Nalua etc. considered themselves to be Hindus. Nalua`s dying instructions were for his bones to be intrerned in Ganges at Haridwar.

Nazar Khan - this was a truly interesting article to read. The Hindu Kush is an area the British and the colonials wrote about a great deal perhaps because it was where the British suffered a defeat at the hands of the locals. It`s always seemed a place of great romance and adventure and that is probably due to the books that kind of slip over the fact that all that romance and adventure were based on great tragedy. Post Independence, its hard to come across any books set in the area unless they are political commentaries.
Unfortunately, yes - it does look like an interesting century ahead.
Thanks for the write up.

Re: # 54
Khammy got it slightly wrong. As per the periodical Saamna which is a Mumbai publication that conducts research into ancient India [it used to be funded at various times by the Maharashtra govt and the GoI but it depends on who is in power because of some of their more radical theories and opeds] I understand the earliest naem of India is Chinchpoklikijai. Hope this helps.

I think this article correctly points out that the hindu kush area is more significant historically than it is geographically.

However, as a fallout of 9/11, change (overdue by centuries) is finally coming to this area, with the international community footing the bill to build roads and schools and other infrastructure needed to develop the area. Afghanistan is growing at 30% every year for the past couple of years. On the other hand, the population remains strongly attached to their primitive customs. For Pakistan it is very important that this area progresses and gets rid of the dysfunctional traditionals of the area.

As usual, Nazar sahib has chosen an interesting subject and written well on it.

Re: # 58

``As per the periodical Saamna which is a Mumbai publication that conducts research into ancient India [it used to be funded at various times by the Maharashtra govt and the GoI but it depends on who is in power because of some of their more radical theories and opeds``

Is this Saamna different than the Shiv Sena daily?

People tend to look at history, through the geography and civics of today. When, in fact, they should look at it, through the geography and civics of the time when the history was being made.

Due to this, too many people are tied up to their present-day loyalties towards India, Pakistan, Afghanistan, etc. When in fact, these are extremely new entities (at least India and Pakistan), which may not be around in a couple of centuries.

When Ghauri and Ghaznavi and anyone else invaded South Asia, they did not invade, ``India`` as it is known today. To link their actions to a historical invasion of, ``India`` is as incorrect as linking Tariq-bin-Ziyad`s invasion of Spain in 711, to a Muslim invasion of the European Union in 2005.

In fact, one could make a pretty good argument that the only time, ``South Asia`` existed as a united entity was during the time of Ashok and during the British rule. For over 90% of its history, including today, it was smaller states living side by side.....

Hence, I have never understood the emotional linkages that so many Indians (and Pakistanis) have to all these invasions. One seeing itself as the loser, and the other as the winner. During the days of the invasions, the general rule was kings/rules invading other kings/rulers. Didn`t matter if you were Hindu, Muslim or Sikh. The Muslim invaders killed other Muslim kings and rulers, along the way. And the Hindu kings did the same to their co-religionists. The intensities may have been different, but they battles were definitly fought.......

As did the Christians in Europe. Muslim Kings ruled Spain and Portugal (or its portions) for over 700 years. During this time, a lot of Jews lived their also. Eventually in 1492, the European Christian armies retook all of Spain and Portugal. How many Jews and Muslims now live in Spain and Portugal? What happened to all of them, who had lived there for 700 years!!

That is apparently how things were done back then. That was the civics of the time. King vs King. Muslim King vs Hindu King. Hindu King vs Muslim King. Muslim King vs. Muslim King......

To look at it within the context of today`s nation-states, and then form opinions, is incorrect......I think someone should describe in detail, how many Hindu kings/rulers fought each other, historically. After all, Islam only arrived in South Asia the eight century. There was a lot of fighting going on before then. And how many Muslim kings/rulers fought each other in South Asia, as they invaded each others` conquered lands..............

Aitezaz Ahsan discusses this in his, ``Indus Saga,`` dividing the whole area into the Indus civilization and the Ganga civilization. He actually links the Indus civilization with Persia and Afghanistan. In which case the invaders were invading their own cousins............

Re: # 61

``As did the Christians in Europe. Muslim Kings ruled Spain and Portugal (or its portions) for over 700 years. During this time, a lot of Jews lived their also. Eventually in 1492, the European Christian armies retook all of Spain and Portugal. How many Jews and Muslims now live in Spain and Portugal? What happened to all of them, who had lived there for 700 years!!``

From Wikipedia
The expulsion of the Muslims was reputedly started by the first King of Asturias, named Pelayo (718-737), who started his fight against the Moors in the mountains of Covadonga (722). Later, his sons and descendants continued with his work until all of the Muslims were expelled.
The idea of the Reconquista as a single process spanning eight centuries is historically inaccurate. The Christian realms in northern Spain warred against each other as much as against the Muslims. The military decline of the Ummayads in Spain led to the creation in 913 of the Kingdom of León. Sancho III of Navarre - a man of considerable military skill - placed his son Fernando on the throne of the County of Castilla in 1028, propelling Christian Spain yet further into the south.
A revived movement for the Christian unification of Spain was capitalized on by the ``Catholic monarchs`` (Reyes Católicos in Spanish) Isabel I of Castilla and Fernando II of Aragón in order to justify their invasion of Granada, the expulsion of the Jews and the forceful conversion of the Moors.
In 1499, about 50,000 Moors in Granada were coerced by Cardinal Cisneros into mass baptisms and conversion. During the uprising that followed (known as the First Rebellion of the Alpujarras), people who refused the choices of baptism or deportation to Africa, were systematically eliminated. What followed was a mass flee of Moors, Jews and Gitanos from Granada city and the villages to the mountain regions (and their hills) and the rural country, however by 1500 Cisneros reported that ``There is now no one in the city who is not a Christian, and all the mosques are churches``.

I wish `chowk` had a travel section, but since this board is on the subject of mountains, i thought i`ll paste a couple of links to some great pictures of India

Mumbai skyline/nearby areas:

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=164579

Rajasthan:

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=164579

A must for all indians:

http://www.ku.edu/~kuindia/

A picture is worth a thousand words.Peace.